The fact that an interception is caused by "not being on the same page" as the receiver is one of the biggest myths that gets floated around this team and this corner forum. It's junk. Total garbage. These interceptions - in almost every instance - are Eli's fault and his alone.
If a quarterback and a receiver are not on the same page, it should result in the quarterback reading it and going somewhere else, even throwing it away. If a defender has better position on where the ball is going than does the receiver, the ball shouldn't be thrown there. It's as if people completely discount the fact that there are defenders there waiting every time. It's not just the quarterback and receiver out there, it's quarterback, receiver, and defender. If the receiver isn't where he's supposed to be, and the defender is there, then don't throw it there! You can blame the receiver all you want, but there's no excuse for throwing it to a defender. Not being on the same page as a receiver should result in an incompletion. It should NEVER result in a nice throw the wrong team.
You can say "well, but in a three-step drop the ball is supposed to come out quickly" and you would be right. But even then, as always, it is still the quaterback's responsbility to make sure the receiver is open. This is not a responsibility that goes away just because the play calls for a quick throw. If the defender has position, then don't throw it to that receiver (or wait a beat until your receiver gets position).
Even if taken at face value and assuming it is true that these interceptions are because of not being on the same page as his receivers, why does it happen to Eli so often? This goes all the way back to Shockey, and now to Manningham, Randle, Cruz, and even Myers got blamed for one last year. But isn't Eli the comment element here? Doesn't that tell you all you need to know about what the source of these "miscommunications" is? Other teams don't have receivers that run the wrong route? Of course they do, but it doesn't result in the frequency of interceptions that it does for Eli because other quaterbacks know how to make adjustments if the receiver is covered/running the wrong route.
The last few years we blamed Gilbride because the offense was too cerebral for the receivers. It was the receivers' fault because it was too hard for them to read the defense and run the right route. Do you still believe that? What's the excuse now? Eli I'm telling you, Eli! See it people.
Not one of those interceptions yesterday was on the receiver. They were bad balls, plain and simple. Balls you just don't throw if you're a quarterback at any level, never mind a professional. Lazy, lazy, garbage throws.
Let's call it like it is instead of wanting to blame someone else because Eli can't possibly be part of the problem here, right? It's gotten epidemic around here and it needs to stop. This whole "not on the same page" garbage is exhibit 1 as to how people are seeing what they want to see.
Again, I love me some Eli, but I'm not making any excuses for him anymore and I'm not going to drink the "receiver's fault" kool-aid anymore either.
It's a different game if Eli has better protection - and I really do think it's that simple
I agree with shep. Yesterday was on Eli, the rest of your post displays a lack of knowledge on how offenses work. Have you ever heard the term "timing route" or "throwing to a spot"?
How do you explain Eli's high percentage of interceptions when Randle was in college and HS?
Stay with me on this... The quarerback is expecting the receiver to be in a different place than he is. There are often 5-7 people in coverage compared to only 2-4 people running routes. So yes, often times, if the reserve goes out while Eli goes in, there will be a defender waiting there for the INT.
You also said that "it shouldn't happen every time." It certainly doesn't. If it did, Eli wouldn't have only had 6 INTS coming into the game.
He can't "read the play and throw elsewhere." His read is that the receiver will be in position to make the play. More often than we'd all like, particularly with Randle, the two aren't on the same page.
The irony of your post is the assumption that people who blame INTs are removing all blame from Eli when in fact, a simple analysis of the sentence itself would show that we think there is blame to be spread around. Two players who aren't on the same page include Eli.
So I really don't know what you're bitching about.
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number of interceptions are on balls thrown at a certain receiver, and when that same receiver also has a low catch % that is not in line with the other receivers on the team, I find it hard to believe the notion of it not being the receiver's fault, or that miscommunications don't cause interceptions and bad plays.
How do you explain Eli's high percentage of interceptions when Randle was in college and HS?
Huh?
Honestly, the amount of people who think that quarterbacking is about reading just the receiver is frightening. A quarterback MUST read the receiver AND THE DEFENDER and make a decision about who has better position to the place where THE QUARTERBACK - and the quarterback alone - is going to throw the ball. It is not the receiver's fault if the defender gets to the spot first because the ball is in a place where the defender could get to the spot first. that's on the quarterback, who failed to read correctly.
But he was supposed to throw it to a spot (where the defender was)? Really? It's a ridiculous argument.
Even in the case of "he was throwing to a spot," it should result in an incompletion at worst. The only way it ends up an interception is when it was thrown to the wrong spot, not because the receiver didn't get there.
Eli has been one of the sole bright spots this year but he had a horrible day yesterday. It's that simple.
Those ignoring either of those two facts probably have an agenda.
Now what?
Let's take the best QB we have had in the modern era of two super bowls and cut him. Let him go play with another team,then we can call him when we have formal ceremonies. When he's not winning with his new team.
Yeah let's just shit all over our giant legend.
It does make for some interesting reading if you have the stomach for it.
But you are not correct about the reads on timing routes, etc. The Qb is releasing the ball before the receiver makes his cut based on his reads. If the WR makes a different read - INT. In this I would universally say Eli was right. The second INT yesterday Eli read wrong - he didn't see the inside defender even after Randle turned it up field. He said he saw it and try to stop.
The argument that the disproportional number of INTs go toward Randle is true and false. If you throw to one guy more than the others, the ball will be picked off more often just on statistics. Randle does make bad reads - more than the rest of the receivers.
But yesterday was Eli and pressure. When you have 5 ints it isn't always the receiver.
More disturbing is the constant juggling catches and drops by Randle - that alone is enough reason to look elsewhere. But Cruz is hurt and Parker is JAG. And Beckham is double covered.
It's outrageous.
Say that Eli had an awful game! Don't blame the receivers for awful throws. Don't blame the line for awful decisions! Yes, he was under some pressure. But 5 interceptions wirth? Many, if not all, of which had nothing to do with pressure? That lazy ball that floated harmlessly to the ground that easily should have been pick #6? What is this?
I have no agenda. I just want the Giants to win. I absolutely love Eli Manning, but his play has been subpar for a few YEARS now and his utter laziness cost them the season yesterday. He cannot come out and play like that when the rest of the team shows up like they did. The defense gets the ball back AGAIN after four failed attempts from the four and he can't get a lousy first down? It's a morale destroyer. It's a legacy killer.
I worry that Eli has lost this team. It was embarrassing yesterday. That was just awful. I hate to see it, man. I hate to see someone I admire so much play in a way that's just killing this team. And then to hear all these apologists lose sight of reality makes it seem like we're not seeing what's really going on here. And the reality is that Eli's play is hurting this team. He's not helping, he's hurting.
I love Eli, but I am a GIANTS fan first and foremost. And Eli is as broken as any part of this team right now. It sucks, but I'm not going to make excuses for him anymore. He needed to play better yesterday and instead he just...lost it. See it for what it is.
Can he bounce back? He's one of the toughest competitors I've ever seen so I think so. But damn, that was a great opportunity to get back some mojo and he totally failed...
Say that Eli had an awful game! Don't blame the receivers for awful throws. Don't blame the line for awful decisions! Yes, he was under some pressure. But 5 interceptions wirth? Many, if not all, of which had nothing to do with pressure? That lazy ball that floated harmlessly to the ground that easily should have been pick #6? What is this?
I have no agenda. I just want the Giants to win. I absolutely love Eli Manning, but his play has been subpar for a few YEARS now and his utter laziness cost them the season yesterday. He cannot come out and play like that when the rest of the team shows up like they did. The defense gets the ball back AGAIN after four failed attempts from the four and he can't get a lousy first down? It's a morale destroyer. It's a legacy killer.
I worry that Eli has lost this team. It was embarrassing yesterday. That was just awful. I hate to see it, man. I hate to see someone I admire so much play in a way that's just killing this team. And then to hear all these apologists lose sight of reality makes it seem like we're not seeing what's really going on here. And the reality is that Eli's play is hurting this team. He's not helping, he's hurting.
I love Eli, but I am a GIANTS fan first and foremost. And Eli is as broken as any part of this team right now. It sucks, but I'm not going to make excuses for him anymore. He needed to play better yesterday and instead he just...lost it. See it for what it is.
Can he bounce back? He's one of the toughest competitors I've ever seen so I think so. But damn, that was a great opportunity to get back some mojo and he totally failed...
Let's go toilet paper his house.
Blame JERRY REESE for your broken offense and defense.
Lets face it. Eli played poorly yesterday. Which hasnt been the norm for the year. But the fact is he doesnt have help on the OL and no help at WR outside OBJ.
The first INT was all on Eli for not seeing Borland. However can someone tell me why Randle didnt even look for the ball on the 2nd INT? If Eli said the CB jumpe dthe route, wouldnt that mean Randle should have at least tried to run a stop or at least a slant? No he ran a fade and Eli couldnt stop his arm motion.
The 3rd INT Eli threw into double coverage, but Ranbdle quit running his route. Again, why is a WR slowing down on a route? The overhead replay clearly showed him slowing down when the ball was in the air. Thats really helping out your QB isnt?
The 4th INT. The defender started off on Randles back and less than 1 second is in front of him? Why? Because Randle slowed down on a route.
Eli made a lot of poor decisions yesterday,l but the fact is the 3 more INTs on passes thrown to Randle's way are not a coincidence. He is just not a very good WR and hurts the team more than he helps them.
Go watch the fade route in the end zone again. And tell me he isnt replaceable.
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number of interceptions are on balls thrown at a certain receiver, and when that same receiver also has a low catch % that is not in line with the other receivers on the team, I find it hard to believe the notion of it not being the receiver's fault, or that miscommunications don't cause interceptions and bad plays.
How do you explain Eli's high percentage of interceptions when Randle was in college and HS?
Shockey and Plaxico in Gilbride's offense. Hakeem quitting on some routes, too, last 2 seasons...Atlanta comes to mind for Hakeem. Shockey and the Minnesota game. Plax had a few sprinkled in there. I don't know what it is about Eli or his leadership, but he gets shit effort from more than a few of his receivers. I can't imagine receivers constantly quitting on Peyton and Brady.
on top of being more vocal, they would also work with the receivers and put in the extra time to make sure they were on the same page. that is why they are consistently excellent in the regular season - they outwork everyone.
Eli's sloppy play during the regular season has been going on since 2007 (the minnesota and washington home games) and with a number of different receivers who just didn't get it (shockey, plaxico, nicks, manningham, randle) and behind both great offensive lines and not so good ones.
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would rip them a new asshole. That isn't Eli (at least I don't think it is).
on top of being more vocal, they would also work with the receivers and put in the extra time to make sure they were on the same page. that is why they are consistently excellent in the regular season - they outwork everyone.
Eli's sloppy play during the regular season has been going on since 2007 (the minnesota and washington home games) and with a number of different receivers who just didn't get it (shockey, plaxico, nicks, manningham, randle) and behind both great offensive lines and not so good ones.
Ha, and you know Eli doesn't work with his recievers, how?
I guess you forgot about his Friday film sessions with them, that he's only been doing for years.
2014
2012
Manning has continued to do so during the season. Each Friday, he gathers the receivers for a film session without any coaches. During those meetings, Manning is the coach.
2009
Should I go on, or is that enough?
Over it.
And are you fucking serious about Eli not putting in the extra work with his receivers? If you are, you clearly show just how little you know about your own damn QB, which is pretty fucking pathetic since you seem to be full of criticism.
Over it.
Britt...completely agree about the morons on this thread talking out of their asses, but knowing who they are, it doesn't surprise me.
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Manning also takes responsibility as a leader, working with his young receivers in his weekly film sessions and making sure they know what they're doing on the practice field. One of the reasons the Giants felt good about their plan to totally rework the offense this season under new coordinator Ben McAdoo was that they believed they had a reliable, steadying presence at quarterback around which to build that new offense, and that he would thrive in the new scheme. Coughlin said he's pleased with the results.
2014
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The text flashed on Rueben Randle’s phone Thursday. It was Eli Manning. The quarterback, knowing the rookie wide receiver would play a prominent role in the next game, extended an invitation for a one-on-one film session later that day.
2012
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Coughlin and several teammates noted Manning realized his role as tutor for the receivers as far back as the spring, when he began working on the finer points of the passing game with them. He spent more time throwing with them during offseason workouts and worked with them in the classroom and the film room.
Manning has continued to do so during the season. Each Friday, he gathers the receivers for a film session without any coaches. During those meetings, Manning is the coach.
2009
Should I go on, or is that enough?
These extra film sessions are the norm for pro QBs and receivers. Peyton and Brady spend countless hours in the offseason working with their guys to ensure they are in sync. Eli has only been doing it in recent years, and even then attendance is inconsistent.
brady's receivers for the most part have been no names or JAGs who flourished with him.
Not entertaining it anymore.
Giants' Hakeem Nicks credits practice and film session work with Eli Manning for three-touchdown day - ( New Window )
In the wise words from Frozen, let it go. These guys are clueless.
And the next time I read one is these jokers talk about Eli's lack of leadership, I'm going to die laughing. What the hell any of these assholes know about leadership? Let alone Eli's leadership quality?
Should be used to it, but it just rubs me the wrong way sometimes.
Not entertaining it anymore.
that's fine, you and psychodep should have a beer in your manning jerseys and toast Saint Eli.
Don't go changing your tune in ten years.
Last week he blamed a 3rd quarter INT as the reason why we lost without even acknowledging 354 yards given up on the ground.
I dont understand why Eric continues to let posters like this make thread after thread bashing 1 player. Why cant they add to the other existing 80 of them to speak amongst each other about their nonsense.
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You have no idea what you're talking about.
Not entertaining it anymore.
that's fine, you and psychodep should have a beer in your manning jerseys and toast Saint Eli.
Going from thread to thread spewing Eli hating posts makes you psycho. Pointing out how much of an idiot you are makes me smart. Get a life dude.
Psychodep? Cute. Mommy teach you that one?
Now, blame whoever you want for that. The WR, the QB or even the coaches for not making sure everyone is aligned.
But yeah, he has only done it for a couple years. This guy is a flat out clown. And yet Eric sticks up for him...haha
Good try Les. You failed yet again. - ( New Window )
This isn't a repeat of last year. He was absolutely bad yesterday. No shit. He has been VERY GOOD throughout the entire season in a VERY BAD offense with no running game and his top target out for the year.
When I say these things, I'm not referencing some cherry picked statistic to back up my point. It's just a fact. Eli has been very good this year. He sucked yesterday. What the Hell is wrong with you guys?
Don't go changing your tune in ten years.
I will always love Eli for how clutch he was in 2007 and 2011. He's from all accounts a good person, a team guy someone who doesn't look like he could hurt a fly.
He has some elite skills that come out from time to time, but he's also prone to some really bad performances.
I don't have an agenda. The GMen are just a diversion from
a busy life.
But I have an opinion and it is that I think Eli, looking at his entire body of work, is an above average QB, not someone who is irreplacable. And while right now he's the best QB in giants history, (though i never saw tittle or tarkenton play), i hope one day we get a truly elite QB like a brady/peyton/rodgers who can take us to the playoffs year in year out, even if there are variations in his surrounding talent.
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with anybody that can easily see we're watching the greatest QB in Giants history, and appreciate him while he's here.
Don't go changing your tune in ten years.
I will always love Eli for how clutch he was in 2007 and 2011. He's from all accounts a good person, a team guy someone who doesn't look like he could hurt a fly.
He has some elite skills that come out from time to time, but he's also prone to some really bad performances.
I don't have an agenda. The GMen are just a diversion from
a busy life.
But I have an opinion and it is that I think Eli, looking at his entire body of work, is an above average QB, not someone who is irreplacable. And while right now he's the best QB in giants history, (though i never saw tittle or tarkenton play), i hope one day we get a truly elite QB like a brady/peyton/rodgers who can take us to the playoffs year in year out, even if there are variations in his surrounding talent.
Well no shit he is irreplaceable. Some of the great QBs ever found replacements a year after they left. Montana was replaced by a HOF. Favre was replaced by a future HOF. Peyton was replaced by a future HOF.
But ther eare teams like Buffalo, Cleveland, Oakland, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Tampa, etc that god YEARS looking for even a viable replacement.
You have a QB that can win for you. Stop shitting on him every time he does something wrong. He played like shit yesterday. We get it. You jsut sound like a moron when you go from thread to thread making up shit in which you dont know what you are talking about.
You have no idea what type of work Brady, Peyton, Eli, or anybody else puts in with their recievers to compare or contrast.
This isn't a repeat of last year. He was absolutely bad yesterday. No shit. He has been VERY GOOD throughout the entire season in a VERY BAD offense with no running game and his top target out for the year.
When I say these things, I'm not referencing some cherry picked statistic to back up my point. It's just a fact. Eli has been very good this year. He sucked yesterday. What the Hell is wrong with you guys?
he has had very good games; he has had some average games; and he's had a couple of stinkers.
if the giants are going to do a major overhaul in the offseason with a new coach, maybe a new GM, it's completely fair to question whether he is part of the future, especially with his compensation.
doesn't make me or Natty haters, it makes us realists.
He's been really shitty at times as a Giant. Which is not to take away from his show-stopping highs (particularly the 2011 post-season) or the fact that any Giant fan who sat through the Kent Graham/Dave Brown era should be thankful he's here.
But the standard for NFL QBs has been re-established by the likes of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, and now seemingly Luck. I think people are frustrated Eli - a #1 pick with whom this franchise sinks or swims - is decidedly not on their level. He's really good and I'm glad to have him. He should be better.
You have a very good QB who has already won here. You don't get rid of him. You reload for one more run by getting a legit OL and adding depth at WR and maybe RB.
The fact that he hasn't been dreadful all season given our OL and running game is remarkable.. let alone productive.
Again, I'm picking some obscure statistic here to back up my point. The most basic statistics and the most basic observation of football would lead anyone to believe that Eli has been very good.
Bad idea. Everyone knows a fool and his money are soon parted.
He's been really shitty at times as a Giant. Which is not to take away from his show-stopping highs (particularly the 2011 post-season) or the fact that any Giant fan who sat through the Kent Graham/Dave Brown era should be thankful he's here.
But the standard for NFL QBs has been re-established by the likes of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, and now seemingly Luck. I think people are frustrated Eli - a #1 pick with whom this franchise sinks or swims - is decidedly not on their level. He's really good and I'm glad to have him. He should be better.
Great post.
The fact that he hasn't been dreadful all season given our OL and running game is remarkable.. let alone productive.
Again, I'm picking some obscure statistic here to back up my point. The most basic statistics and the most basic observation of football would lead anyone to believe that Eli has been very good.
He was poor vs Philly Detroit and SF
Ok vs Arizona Seattle and Indy
Good to very good vs Houston Atlanta Washington and Dallas
On the whole he's been good. But he's paid to be excellent
It's nauseating to read and shows as much cluelessness as the op
And it's every damn week if u have to make excuses for something every week.... They are a big part of the problem. And that is the current state of the Giants
The cap is not killing this team the draft and bad FA is.
The cap is not killing this team the draft and bad FA is.
This.
It's nauseating to read and shows as much cluelessness as the op
And it's every damn week if u have to make excuses for something every week.... They are a big part of the problem. And that is the current state of the Giants
^^ Eli hatter.
Must be a hater if u watch a game and a guy just says bad consistently for 2.5 years..... Some because of his teammates but often because of himself despite making 20 bux a year.
Yea a total hater. Pls ask anyone in my office if I'm a Eli hater- spend my sports existence defending his legacy and career- but because I can make an open honest assessment I am a hater
Great call
Must be a hater if u watch a game and a guy just says bad consistently for 2.5 years..... Some because of his teammates but often because of himself despite making 20 bux a year.
Yea a total hater. Pls ask anyone in my office if I'm a Eli hater- spend my sports existence defending his legacy and career- but because I can make an open honest assessment I am a hater
So again it's the money he makes?
Great call
Nicks was the wr and sucked
Who is more relevant to success?
I fully thought nicks should be paid before Cruz. That has ways been my issue- I don't care to pay guys who aren't number 1s. Nicks clearly never healed - my bad- wrong view- I still would have never paid Cruz.
Dep in life usually when u shift the focus elsewhere it means u don't want to talk on the other topic.....
You want relevancy? How about Eli has had ONE player over the last two years that is a starting caliber player in the league. Name another top QB who has only one legit option.
If the rest of the team (the WRs) are not committed, then the follwing needs to happen...
1. Eli needs to get in their face and make them work on the timing together.
OR
2. Coughlin needs to do it.
OR
3. Find a few guys who will do what it takes. Dump the posers no matter how high they were drafted.
We will be lucky to win 6 games this year. We have NOTHING to lose by cleaning house. Drop Eli's salary to $10mm and get rid of as much garbage as possible.
Eli is the least of our problems. The running game has to improve if Eli is going to be better......end of story. Our line is bad. Our RB are average. Our TE can't block. This is less about Eli and all about our front office putting together a real line. We still need 3 pieces going into next year.....a Guard, a Tackle and a TE.....all on the right side, the power side. Add a RB to that equation with a downhill attitude and watch what will happen to the rest of this team. Your passing game gets better because defenses will have to load up on the run. Your defense gets rest because our drives are longer because you are controlling the line of scrimmage.
Fix your run game, fix your team....including Eli......who has been very good this year.
So, that is on the Giants offensive coaches.
But a large part of it was Eli. Probably one of his worst games. However, he still would have likely won the game if either Randle or Donell makes the catch on the fades.
He has stepped up this year and proven he is absolutely part of the solution.
But fuck, what one game does to some of us...
Not neccessarily. Some of the smartest people I know are just dumb sports fans. Not everybody agonizes over every snap like we do.
[quote] grief guys...it's not that hard to figure out.
Eli has been one of the sole bright spots this year but he had a horrible day yesterday. It's that simple.
Those ignoring either of those two facts probably have an agenda. [/quote ]
Interesting to see how many fans don't like ELi or come out of the woods when he has a bad game.
As for original post, I agree with Robbie. Just not a good thread. I disagree with a lot of it.
He could be better, and he's probably overpaid, but if you're looking at this team and walk away thinking Eli is part of the problem, you need to take another look.