In the post below, "Tuesday's Readings" Serby addresses Coughlin fighting for his job. After reading it, I am not so certain what direction this team will go.
Certainly if the team does not improve, the front office will have to seriously consider a change.
But letting go of a Hall of Fame coach can not be an easy decision, the article got me to thinking, just how much of the mess this season, and even going back to the last Super Bowl win is Coughlin's fault.
I know the cliché, "The buck stops here" but like many clichés it ignores the reality of the situation.
Cooughlin - (
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We need some better players, but the coaching has surely not exactly elevated the players we have or gotten them to play to their best, or gotten them to play consistently.
Let's be honest...the offensive line is putrid. Until that is fixed....this team is not going anywhere.
We need some better players, but the coaching has surely not exactly elevated the players we have or gotten them to play to their best, or gotten them to play consistently.
I don't think this team has many 'football' players on it. The toughness is gone from the team. Is that on TC?
But over his career, his winning percentage is .540, hardly the stuff of a Hall of Fame coach. He has nine winning and nine losing seasons. To his credit, he started with an expansion team. But he always had a quality QB in Eli and Brunnel.
Sentiment is a wonderful quality, but it blinds judgement in a performance based endeavor. Coughlin is 68. Give him all the farewell plaudits he deserves, but it's time to move on.
It's debatable because they fired a perfectly good coach in Gilbride last year because his offense was broken, and now we realize "hey, maybe you need some guys to run an NFL offense".
Until the replace the talent, the coach can only get what they get out of them.
However, are the ownership strong enough to fire a two time Super Bowl winning coach. The changes they made (and didn't make) last year have made things worse, for whatever reason.
Firing the head coach this year, and more to the point the defensive coordinator, is almost an admission that you got it wrong last year.
Decisions made in the next few months will impact the franchise for the next 4-5 years and I certainly have no idea which are the right ones.
Just replacing the coach isn't a magical fix.
Until the replace the talent, the coach can only get what they get out of them.
There's a good example in the team we play this week of a mediocre defensive roster playing consistently way above their talent level.
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Until the replace the talent, the coach can only get what they get out of them.
There's a good example in the team we play this week of a mediocre defensive roster playing consistently way above their talent level.
Their successful offense, which is not void of talent, helps a lot. They are fourth in the league in Time of Possession.
We are 23rd.
So are they really playing above their talent level, or is their offense carrying the team and masking some deficiencies?
I only looked it up because I've heard here a bunch that Dallas is playing above their talent level, but I haven't really watched them other than seeing them play us, and lose to the Redskins.
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This. If anyone thinks that TC has had no input in drafts and FA signings, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not laying it all at his feet, but he has absolutely been part of the process.
They've given up 25+ points only three times in 10 games.
Yeah, they have a great offense, but we've seen great offensive teams with lousy, gaping wound defenses before. The offense hasn't had to do any extra work to cover up for defensive awfulness.
They're a little better than we are but not by as much as you'd think.
Football is the ultimate team sport. Offense effects defense and vice versa more than people realize.
They're a little better than we are but not by as much as you'd think.
Football is the ultimate team sport. Offense effects defense and vice versa more than people realize.
Exactly. They look much better only because they are always playing with a lead.
And special teams too arc. Don't forget that.
Andy Lee and the coverage unit with that one punt basically won the game for the 49ers late Sunday.
It's 1/3rd of the game many overlook until it comes into play.
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Dallas' defense isn't good.
They're a little better than we are but not by as much as you'd think.
Football is the ultimate team sport. Offense effects defense and vice versa more than people realize.
Exactly. They look much better only because they are always playing with a lead.
Not sure I buy that. They're giving up 21 ppg. That's good for 10th. They have a great offense, but that great offense is still required to give the ball back to the opponent after scoring.
Only 4 defenses in football have their opponents start with a better average field position than the Giants do.
Our average offensive drive time is 25th in the NFL which means our defense is rarely on the sideline for long before they have to come back onto the field.
The GB defense isn't good but because Rodgers kept carving up the Eagle defense and they couldn't get off the field and fell behind fast, the game completely changed. The GB defense didn't have to be great because they forced the Eagles to be more one dimensional than they already are.
Ditto the game against the Bears.
Dallas' offense isn't quite GB but it's the ability to put opposing teams behind the ball early and dictate the play.
It's why our defense looked "better" in games like the Texans, Redskins and Falcons games. We forced those teams to catch up and we were able to force them into mistakes and take them out of their game plans because our offense kept putting points up and kept moving the ball.
The question becomes given the circumstances could other coaches have done better? Will they be available? If the answer is both no, I suspect TC will stay. MacAdoo stays. My guess is part of the reason he was hired; potential HC. As to Fewell,was he kept last year because he was also seen as as a potential HC. If the answer was yes and evaluation hasn't change, he also probably stays.
If things get worse and the locker room is lost, owners will have to come to terms that this is not going to be a quick turn around. TC resignation will be asked for or TC will resign on his own accord. Just my perception of the man, I don't think he will want to stay if he doesn't believe he is part of the solution.
I don't know if Coughlin deserves to go. I have mixed feelings. But to me it seems obvious the Giants have only one of two directions they can go: let him go with 1 year left on his contract or extend him for 3-4 years. A 1 year extension would be a mistake - you're telling your team that you aren't sure this coach will a) last much longer or b) be the person to lead your club going forward.
I think they let him go.
Here's an idea - let's get a guy with all winning seasons, someone like what Don Shula did?
He should be fired after the season along with Fewell. Hire a new GM and give TC a 3 year contract.
He could solve it all by retiring. I don't believe he will. That's not in his DNA.
However, I don't want to hear that he deserves to keep his job because the team plays hard for him in spite of a losing season. Yes, that's to his credit, but having a losing team that plays hard right to the end is not the reason to retain or reward a coach. They play hard right to the bitter end? That's nice.
But please, wins and losses are the best way to judge a team and its coach.
Yup.
Coughlin has a place of honor in the ranks of good coaches, but is he really a HOF coach beyond a shadow of a doubt? He's got some baggage to go along with his successes.
IMO,only a fool puts Coughlin in the "he's gone" or "he's definitely coming back" category.
Or not.
Get rid of Ross and let Reese go back to doing both, his GM duties, And director of college scouting job like he did in 2007.
But over his career, his winning percentage is .540, hardly the stuff of a Hall of Fame coach. He has nine winning and nine losing seasons. To his credit, he started with an expansion team. But he always had a quality QB in Eli and Brunnel.
Sentiment is a wonderful quality, but it blinds judgement in a performance based endeavor. Coughlin is 68. Give him all the farewell plaudits he deserves, but it's time to move on.
HOFer Chuck Noll had a career .566 winning percentage. Over TC's career, being at .566 would net him about 7 more wins over 20 years -- material, but not huge. Parcells was .569.
He could solve it all by retiring. I don't believe he will. That's not in his DNA.
However, I don't want to hear that he deserves to keep his job because the team plays hard for him in spite of a losing season. Yes, that's to his credit, but having a losing team that plays hard right to the end is not the reason to retain or reward a coach. They play hard right to the bitter end? That's nice.
But please, wins and losses are the best way to judge a team and its coach.
Whoever you make the next HC, he is still stuck with Jerry Reese's untalented squad.
He could solve it all by retiring. I don't believe he will. That's not in his DNA.
However, I don't want to hear that he deserves to keep his job because the team plays hard for him in spite of a losing season. Yes, that's to his credit, but having a losing team that plays hard right to the end is not the reason to retain or reward a coach. They play hard right to the bitter end? That's nice.
But please, wins and losses are the best way to judge a team and its coach.
The only problem with your viewpoint is that firing Coughlin virtually guarantees a lesser replacement. The odds of replacing a two time winning SB coach with another SB winning coach are pretty remote. So, sure. Dump Coughlin. I just don't want to hear one word of complaint from you or others about how much his replacement(s) suck dick.
What I did say is to keep someone "because the players never quit on him" is an awful reason and I don't want to hear it.
If that's such a wonderful reason to keep a coach then I guess the Jets should keep Rex Ryan.
Judge a coach on his wins and losses....and yes, on his Super Bowl trophies too.
If I had to bet my life, TC moves on at the end of the year. But, that's if I was forced to bet.
If TC stays, McAdoo's retention is not in question. Clearly, has an inferior OL.
I also want Marc Ross fired if JR isn't.
"Solve it all" sure sounds as though there is something to "solve" when it comes to Coughlin. And maybe there is. Maybe the only true way to measure a coach is wins and losses regardless of the crapfest of talent he is forced to put on the field. I suspect, however, that great football people recognize true coaching talent and expertise independent of wins and losses - that great football people have the background and knowledge base to separate coaching, talent, and wins/losses into their respective components.
I don't have that capability. I suspect there isn't anyone on BBI that comes close to having that experience(unless Parcells or Gruden or Cowher or other actual NFL coaches reside here without our knowledge)
But one thing I strongly suspect to be true is this. Very few head coaches have two Super Bowl rings purely by luck. I suppose it is possible that the 2007/2011 Giant teams were so filled with talent that coaching had zero to do with their success and that any coach would have won Super Bowls with that talent. But, to my eyes, that isn't the judgment I would make about those teams. I think the talent level was adequate but not something that is going down in history as the most talented teams to ever win a SB - certainly not teams with so much talent that coaching was irrelevant.
So, in my book, TC is someone who holds a job that only 32 people in the world are talented enough to hold. And not only is he one of 32 people in the world talented enough to be a NFL coach - he has taken two teams with so-so talent to two Super Bowls and won them both - proving to me that he is more than just 1 in 32 in the world - he is one of the best of the 32.
I get that the day will come when he leaves. He is old after all. To me, however, when that day comes, it will be a bad day for Giant fans - because it most likely means a 10-15 year search until a coach with enough talent can take the team back to another SB. To me - what I'd like to see more than anything else - is a 5 year contract for Coughlin with instructions to do what he did when he first got here - get back to creating some Giants PRIDE.
Because to me, the fastest way back to another SB is with Coughlin - he has proven he can do what so few can do - and searching for someone else who can is, sadly, going to take a very long time.