Sad state we are in right now. Almost sounds like a eulogy. First part of the show should be very interesting. I wish TC could go out on better terms but it seems like the final chapter is being written. :-( wFAN - ( New Window )
Thankfully Francess doesn't make the coaching decisions
Eagles fans sounded when Andy was about to be let go there. Fortunately for both Andy and the Birds it seems to have been good for both. Nothing guarantees we will have the same luck.
Has always been very supportive of Coughlin and even got into it with Mad Dog at times over his criticism of Coughlin before the first SB and they split.
Francesa also has a relatively good relationship with the Giants. Wonder if he's being told things behind the scenes or is being used to help grease a respectable parting at seasons end.
If you recall the Giants eased the firing of Fassel a bit through the media first to gauge reaction and the temperament of the fans.
He's simply saying if they fire him, he can't argue with it.
It's a very rational position.
That is correct. He is not leaning one way or another. Just stating the facts and that guys like Tiki cannot choose now to try to win a personal battle with TC. TC won the battle years ago.
He is also saying he will be very tough to replace.
should come forward with Coughlin's fate sooner rather than later and not to leave him hanging....
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
should come forward with Coughlin's fate sooner rather than later and not to leave him hanging....
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
TTH, I agree as well.
If they lose on Sunday, it will be the 8th loss. The season will I think mathematically be over. The Giants ownership should not be making a judgement on him based on games against Jacksonville, Tennessee or Washington.
He has been here too long to be forced to have his future dangle around over the results of those games. They either know the answer on his future or they don't.
Either extend him and go forward or call it a wrap. It shouldn't take until Week 17 to figure this out with a respected man who has coached this team for all these years.
The Giants are having (almost) as embarrassing a season as the Jets. It pains me to say it, but they're 2-8 and we're 3-7 and we've both had a ton of embarrassing losses.
But to Mike's credit, we aren't getting the "DEY STINK!!!" rant. At least he's level headed enough to remember what these men have accomplished.
Next week- Win, lose or tie V Dallas... The team should put this to bed. Either Tom's this coach next year and beyond. Or have a heart to heart with Tom, so he can announce his retirement at the end of the season and let the rest of this year be a thanks for the memories coach.
Next week- Win, lose or tie V Dallas... The team should put this to bed. Either Tom's this coach next year and beyond. Or have a heart to heart with Tom, so he can announce his retirement at the end of the season and let the rest of this year be a thanks for the memories coach.
and nothing against TC, I love him as the HC, I would clean slate along with TC and staff. Also, GM and scouting dept needs to be either cleaned or/and reevaluated.
The Giants always wait until the season is over before they make any announced decision.If you were going to keep him you could come out and say that but that would set a precident going forward that if they don't say a coach is staying there would be even more speculation on the coach being fired.On the other hand they are not going to make him go through the motions as a lame duck.
Next week- Win, lose or tie V Dallas... The team should put this to bed. Either Tom's this coach next year and beyond. Or have a heart to heart with Tom, so he can announce his retirement at the end of the season and let the rest of this year be a thanks for the memories coach.
Absolutely agree. If you respect TC it is the best way to handle the situation no matter which way it goes.
I would be fine with keeping Coughlin if three things happen. One, they fire Fewell. Two, they fire Quinn. Three, they do NOT extend his contract. I would let next season with a new DC and a hopefully improved OL determine Coughlin's future with the team.
On the other hand, if the Giants chose to fire Coughlin after the last 2 seasons, I would completely understand. However, I would want that to come with a condition also. I think if you fire Coughlin, you also fire Reese.
There is so much right with announcing coughlin's fate before long but i wouldn't do that just yet. If I'm the giants I wait until around week 15-16 and then make the announcement that they will not be bringing coach back. It's right on so many levels. But no need to say anything now or next few weeks.
I'd love nothing more than to go to the last game with the universal knowledge that coughlin is leaving. It would be a celebration for a great head coach. Tom deserves to be serenaded all afternoon instead of hearing boos. And if the fans know it's official they will treat Tom very well that last game or two.
They've made tom fire about 6 differen coordinators and coaches
At some point you can't keep trying to play that card.
Not firing him but removing his entire staff is not what you do with accomplished head coaches. Everybody says firing him is disrespectful. So is neutering him and stripping away his credibility in picking a staff.
1. If the owners are listening to their overprivileged, overreacting fan base, they deserve what is going to happen. Coughlin won't have anything to argue about because there are no laws saying owners can't be stupid. Jerrah has raised it to an art form.
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
The Giants probably don't even know what they're going to do right
now and won't be locked into anything for quite awhile still.
Also, I absolutely wouldn't bank on fans "serenading" him with a great goodbye if there was some sort of head's up. Giants fans, largely, are a pretty awful crowd and the fan base in general seems to need years to really get their nostalgia hard-on for someone (and, then, it's on forever to a point of total revisionism in many cases).
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is revisionist history. You make it sound like Del Rio took a great team in Jacksonville and destroyed it. Coughlin was 7-9, 6-10, 6-10 in his final 3 seasons there, and was so because of poor cap management and the need to cut good core players from their previous winning seasons.
Honestly, this is not all that different a path than the Giants are on. 7-9 last season, look to be heading to even worse this season.
there has been a disturbing trend of management forcing coughlin to make major changes to his approach that dates back his being hired.
2004- fire hufnagel. also, eli had to approach him about simplifying the offense after putting up a 0.0 QBR v baltimore. the following week their offense scored 30 points in a close game v pittsburgh after looking like dogshit for the first few weeks; 2005- stop being a complete asshole to everyone in the press. 2006- stop screaming like an insane person on the sideline at everyone within 50 feet of you... and fire tim lewis; 2009- fire sheridan; 2013- install an offense that is not an embarrassment; 2014- fire perry fewell (presumably).
the giants have actively forced coughlin to make moves he wasn't inclined to make without being prompted, and there is no indication he was even convinced any of the aforementioned issues were problematic. a good coach recognizes problems on his staff. coughlin can't seem to do this, and frankly, never has. his insistence on playing players who are past their prime is troubling as well. from what i understand his tenure in jacksonville ended much the same way. a stubborn insistence on holding onto "his guys" who had "gone to war with him" at the expense of team success. remember when he ran a hobbled bradshaw into the ground in 2012 while wilson stayed glued to the bench the entire season?
why retain him at all at this point if they're just going to force one or two new coordinators on him. they forced macadoo on him and i would argue the offense looks almost as dysfunctional as last year. or perhaps this past sunday's shitshow is coloring my perceptions.
The only issue I have with Tom is that he has hired
bad coordinators. Fewell and Quinn are terrible. I think McAdoo has a chance if given time. I want Tom back with a new DC and a new ST coordinator. Will Tom accept that or will he say screw it and retire?
We will regret the day Tom leaves if we fire him...even at 68.
I'd just like to see him with a D that can actually stop people and a special teams unit that is a contributor as opposed to an obstacle. Add to that an actual offensive line and who knows how good we could be.
Tom is still a brilliant coach but we need new blood as DC and so forth. Like I have said before, I would offer the world to Spags. Get some fire back in that defense.
The Giants always wait until the season is over before they make any announced decision.If you were going to keep him you could come out and say that but that would set a precident going forward that if they don't say a coach is staying there would be even more speculation on the coach being fired.On the other hand they are not going to make him go through the motions as a lame duck.
You must not remember what happened with Fassel. The Giants told him he was going to be fired before the season ended, and it was all over the news.
Hiring coordinators is a pretty big part of an NFL HC's job, usually.
I have to think he's headed for either UMich or OAK, though. I don't think we'd have a good chance of hiring him and I think SF would be stupid to let him go. But apparently there's just too much tension between he and higher ups for whatever reason and it's going to force their hand.
including ownership takes into account when they pick a head coach. By many accounts, Jim Harbaugh is combative, wants a large amount of organizational control, and a lot of money with that.
This place is gonna be something else if Coughlin is retained
I wouldn't bet on Harbaugh coming here, the reasoning is just stupid. He completely turned around a franchise that was in the dumpster and hadn't had a winning season in a decade and has gotten them at least to the NFCC game every single year he's been there. He was one play away from having a ring on his finger.
He got them to an NFCC game with the same Alex Smith that everyone had been calling a complete bust for about 5 years.
I don't know what goes on between he and the FO and I'm not going to pretend to. But I'd much rather take a shot on a guy who knows how to get the most out of his football team than some "yes" man who is part of the Mara "tree"
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Need I recite all of the blowout losses over the past three years? The countless times the team has been unprepared on the most basic of levels - i.e. not coached properly?
I don't think anyone here is saying that TC isn't a great coach - he unquestionably is. But sometimes, you just need a change.
so he "had the horses" in 2011....but not in 2009? 2010? 2012?
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
1. If the owners are listening to their overprivileged, overreacting fan base, they deserve what is going to happen. Coughlin won't have anything to argue about because there are no laws saying owners can't be stupid. Jerrah has raised it to an art form.
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is laughable. Yeah, every team in the NFL will be trampling each other to hire a 69-yr old coach. Even the Jets aren't that stupid. And, no, Tom is not the right guy to rebuild around. Sorry, Jacksonville was 20 years ago, and TC wasn't even 50. Is Marv Levy still alive? Maybe he's the guy to rebuild around!
TC's been a great coach, but even great coaches lose their edge. If the Giants were on the verge of winning, I'd be all in for bringing TC back, but I doubt very much that he would be the right guy, or even very interested in, rebuilding.
Where's he working? Oh right, he "retired." I hope Coughlin's back, but forecasting doom for the franchise because Mara may entertain letting him go after another poor season is a little much. As far as Mara operating "without adult supervision," he's been doing so since 2005, and has already matched dad's Super Bowl total. I'm not a huge John Mara fan, but he's proven very loyal thus far.
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
It makes sense to me too. There's way too much talk about coaching around here. This team sucks! Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent, but Coughlin is the primary reason that they won't make the playoffs? Are people trying to make that claim about last year's team? Can someone really claim either or both of those things with a straight face? Red herring.
Gilbride couldn't even get a job when the offense was top ten
would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
The team sucks....does Tom Coughlin play no role whatsoever in the composition of said team? Really? After years of his boosters talking about how much input he had into personnel, unlike that boob Fassel?
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Wasn't aware of that. My understanding is that BB basically has full control. Still bothers me that Mara butts in.
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
So, is the coaching staff ever held responsible for anything, on the negative side?
would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
BS. Just today Eric posted an article about Mara analyzing Eli's future. You think he wont have a say in what happens next?
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Party why Parcells left, but had no issue with going to Dallas?
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
The team sucks....does Tom Coughlin play no role whatsoever in the composition of said team? Really? After years of his boosters talking about how much input he had into personnel, unlike that boob Fassel?
Unless you work for the team or have incredible inside information, how the hell would anyone know specifically what happens (or happened) behind closed doors? Way too speculative for my tastes.
Not accusing you of this, but there are certain loud Coughlin cheerleaders (*cough*GENE*cough*) who have talked for many years about how influential Coughlin is on personnel matters as yet another reason he's the awesomest coach who's ever put on a headset.
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
So a three win team with great "effort" (whatever that means) would be OK? Unless someone can claim that another coach would be producing significantly better results (i.e., wins) with this group, then laying a large share of the blame on coaching still sounds like a red herring to me.
Not accusing you of this, but there are certain loud Coughlin cheerleaders (*cough*GENE*cough*) who have talked for many years about how influential Coughlin is on personnel matters as yet another reason he's the awesomest coach who's ever put on a headset.
Excellent point and why I think the fates of Coughlin and Reese, at this point, should be tied together.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
TTH, I think that is where the issue is with some.
It would be one thing if the Giants were on the bad luck side of these games and had many close finishes but lost.
But the way a good chunk of these games have gone down have been just car wrecks. Complete and thorough beatdowns. Non competitive games.
They haven't beaten a winning team with their starting quarterback in nearly TWO full calendar years (11/25/2012 vs. Green Bay) and that was when we thought they had good, quality talent.
And then you add just some of the dumb, low football IQ play you see on the field and the sideline communication breakdowns that keep happening, and it just adds up to one bad situation.
Not accusing you of this, but there are certain loud Coughlin cheerleaders (*cough*GENE*cough*) who have talked for many years about how influential Coughlin is on personnel matters as yet another reason he's the awesomest coach who's ever put on a headset.
Got it, Greg. If TC has had a major influence on some of these personnel decisions, then certainly a case can be made to fire him. I just don't know how any of us could possibly know the (very specific) inner workings of the decision-making process though. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I find it hard to believe that a veteran coach like TC,
especially one with a SB or 2 on his resume, wouldn't have extensive influence in personnel decisions. Not final say, but plenty of input.
And Greg is absolutely correct, there were many posters lauding about how the talent level changed when TC became coach, and made no bones about crediting TC for it. Now, however, it's not the coaching, it's the crappy talent!
RE: I find it hard to believe that a veteran coach like TC,
especially one with a SB or 2 on his resume, wouldn't have extensive influence in personnel decisions. Not final say, but plenty of input.
And Greg is absolutely correct, there were many posters lauding about how the talent level changed when TC became coach, and made no bones about crediting TC for it. Now, however, it's not the coaching, it's the crappy talent!
That may be true, but I am not willing to make assumptions and speculate about the specifics. You may be, but I am not. For all I know, TC was against some of the specific moves that have been made in recent years and was overruled. There's absolutely no way for us to know one way or other. In any event, it doesn't matter because the people who will make the decision actually have all of the data (unlike us).
over on my UVA board someone said Francesa said Coughlin
should go coach UVA? Did he actually say that? haha
A caller asked him if he could see Coughlin coaching a college team.
Mike said yes. He didn't want to name a school because someone is currently hired in that position. He said he could see him coaching a middle of the road type university like Syracuse, his alma mater or Virginia or UConn. But not places like Ohio State or a lower tier school like say, Buffalo.
not the issue but Fewell and Quinn are comments. Who do Fewell and Quinn work for and directly under? Coughlin! You can't have it both ways. Coughlin picks the coaches on his staff (until made to get rid of some) and he has his hands all over the game plans, personnel choices etc for the team.
If Talent is a problem then yes Reese is to blame but so is Coughlin. Coughlin sets the roster, the starters and the depth. Coughlin chooses who to keep and who to let go in training camp and Coughlin is the one who decides who plays and who doesn't.
TC is a great coach but he isn't the right choice anymore for the NY Giants. The regime he has together now is unimaginative, predictable and stubborn to a fault.
And while some supporters here talk about what TC did with Jacksonville, he also eventually turned out the same way he is right now with the Gmen. The message is no longer new and when your talent isn't better than other people's talent then it comes down to execution and fundamentals (TC's own words) and yet this team is horrible at both and has been for years. In Jacksonville, though an expansion team, they had a very good QB, 2 very good to great WR's, huge and tough Oline with a nice running game and a solid defense. They were not lacking talent there. But, as that talent started to fade and needed to be replaced there were mistakes left and right and TC's message was lost on the players. His drafts were poor and the ability to change and do something different was either not there or not seen as being needed. That is very much what has happened here with the Giants.
Do not forget the 2011 season was close to being a missed playoff opportunity that then turned into a storied run to the Super Bowl. 2007 was another season where the team was very helter skelter early and most people had them bowing out of the playoffs early.
For many of the years under Coughlin this team would start well and fade in the second half of the season. Lately this team has just faded in the second half of games or in some games- Philly this year, Carolina last year and Atlanta the year before, the team doesn't even bother to show up. I am tired of the same comments, the same analogies, the same quotes and even the same look and sound of being surprised by the way the game was played because the practice was soo good. That to me says way more than anything else that is mentioned about TC, the lack of understanding why the team performed the way they did and the fact that it has happened a great many times.
Yes, Reese should go too but I doubt he will. He may in fact be given the chance to choose his own coach and I suspect that he will do just that. TC will be in the Hall of Fame but he is not the coach for the Giants right now or going forward.
Sound, solid logic countered with 'oh yeah, well he'll show you when he goes to work for the Jets!'.
I think it's time for a change too - you start with TC, and if that's not enough, you make your way through the FO and scouting org. Eventually, everyone's gone if there isn't any improvement. It's unfortunate, but to imply some serious peril is around the corner when we've been non-competitive for two seasons in a row and missed the playoffs for three is a little disingenuous.
stuff with Reese picking his own coach is hilarious.
Is anyone suggesting that TC somehow isn't getting the most out of a talent laden roster????? Garbage in, garbage out.
TC obviously has a lot of input about draft choices and FA signings
You can tell that by his comments after each draft day. He knows all about the picks and can recite their numbers and talks about what "we" saw in the guy.
Why wouldn't you let a guy with 50 years of experience playing and coaching the game have input?
RE: Gilbride couldn't even get a job when the offense was top ten
in scoring and yardage, lol. Literally nobody would even invite him for interviews.
He moved to RI to spend time with his grandaughter and wife who he never sees is what i thought. Did not believe he was actively searching for employment.
RE: RE: Gilbride couldn't even get a job when the offense was top ten
in scoring and yardage, lol. Literally nobody would even invite him for interviews.
He moved to RI to spend time with his grandaughter and wife who he never sees is what i thought. Did not believe he was actively searching for employment.
This.
I would bet if you polled BBI, at least 1/3 (maybe even the majority) would say that it's a fact that Gilbride was fired.
It seems to me that a good percentage of the "obvious facts" around here are only truly known to guys with names like Reese, Coughlin, and Mara.
Sound, solid logic countered with 'oh yeah, well he'll show you when he goes to work for the Jets!'.
I think it's time for a change too - you start with TC, and if that's not enough, you make your way through the FO and scouting org. Eventually, everyone's gone if there isn't any improvement. It's unfortunate, but to imply some serious peril is around the corner when we've been non-competitive for two seasons in a row and missed the playoffs for three is a little disingenuous.
Exactly. It'll be three seasons of mediocre/bad football once this season ends. They gave these guys 3 seasons to try to fix it, and they couldn't. It happens. It's not like they didn't give TC and co. a chance to turn things around. You can only beat around the bush (fire multiple coordinators) for so long, until you are finally forced to deal with the real situation. It's time for a change.
It's a very rational position.
Francesa also has a relatively good relationship with the Giants. Wonder if he's being told things behind the scenes or is being used to help grease a respectable parting at seasons end.
If you recall the Giants eased the firing of Fassel a bit through the media first to gauge reaction and the temperament of the fans.
It's a very rational position.
That is correct. He is not leaning one way or another. Just stating the facts and that guys like Tiki cannot choose now to try to win a personal battle with TC. TC won the battle years ago.
He is also saying he will be very tough to replace.
You're right, Ten Ton, no one here cares much for you! ;-)
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
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Based on what I read here it's not like anyone cared much for me.
You're right, Ten Ton, no one here cares much for you! ;-)
This is what I get for posting when I should be working, lol
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should come forward with Coughlin's fate sooner rather than later and not to leave him hanging....
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
TTH, I agree as well.
If they lose on Sunday, it will be the 8th loss. The season will I think mathematically be over. The Giants ownership should not be making a judgement on him based on games against Jacksonville, Tennessee or Washington.
He has been here too long to be forced to have his future dangle around over the results of those games. They either know the answer on his future or they don't.
Either extend him and go forward or call it a wrap. It shouldn't take until Week 17 to figure this out with a respected man who has coached this team for all these years.
I liked Fassel. You, not so much.
But to Mike's credit, we aren't getting the "DEY STINK!!!" rant. At least he's level headed enough to remember what these men have accomplished.
+1
We also don't know if this has happened or not.
Said its a difficult thing for him to say but "It's time"
Caller finally asked him what he'd do. Said he thinks it's time, while also saying he's never once called for him to be fired and loves him.
I don't think he's ever said that before.
Absolutely agree. If you respect TC it is the best way to handle the situation no matter which way it goes.
On the other hand, if the Giants chose to fire Coughlin after the last 2 seasons, I would completely understand. However, I would want that to come with a condition also. I think if you fire Coughlin, you also fire Reese.
I'd love nothing more than to go to the last game with the universal knowledge that coughlin is leaving. It would be a celebration for a great head coach. Tom deserves to be serenaded all afternoon instead of hearing boos. And if the fans know it's official they will treat Tom very well that last game or two.
Not firing him but removing his entire staff is not what you do with accomplished head coaches. Everybody says firing him is disrespectful. So is neutering him and stripping away his credibility in picking a staff.
Amen to that.
Self loathing, TTH? :-)
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
Also, I absolutely wouldn't bank on fans "serenading" him with a great goodbye if there was some sort of head's up. Giants fans, largely, are a pretty awful crowd and the fan base in general seems to need years to really get their nostalgia hard-on for someone (and, then, it's on forever to a point of total revisionism in many cases).
Most of them are probably simultaneously posting on BBI.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is revisionist history. You make it sound like Del Rio took a great team in Jacksonville and destroyed it. Coughlin was 7-9, 6-10, 6-10 in his final 3 seasons there, and was so because of poor cap management and the need to cut good core players from their previous winning seasons.
Honestly, this is not all that different a path than the Giants are on. 7-9 last season, look to be heading to even worse this season.
Old men like coughlin coach are too conservative. Garrett is too conservative ( gotta love that one) and Eli only plays well when his OL is awesome.
My god I hate NYC Dallas fans more than I hate any single form of life on this planet.
2004- fire hufnagel. also, eli had to approach him about simplifying the offense after putting up a 0.0 QBR v baltimore. the following week their offense scored 30 points in a close game v pittsburgh after looking like dogshit for the first few weeks; 2005- stop being a complete asshole to everyone in the press. 2006- stop screaming like an insane person on the sideline at everyone within 50 feet of you... and fire tim lewis; 2009- fire sheridan; 2013- install an offense that is not an embarrassment; 2014- fire perry fewell (presumably).
the giants have actively forced coughlin to make moves he wasn't inclined to make without being prompted, and there is no indication he was even convinced any of the aforementioned issues were problematic. a good coach recognizes problems on his staff. coughlin can't seem to do this, and frankly, never has. his insistence on playing players who are past their prime is troubling as well. from what i understand his tenure in jacksonville ended much the same way. a stubborn insistence on holding onto "his guys" who had "gone to war with him" at the expense of team success. remember when he ran a hobbled bradshaw into the ground in 2012 while wilson stayed glued to the bench the entire season?
why retain him at all at this point if they're just going to force one or two new coordinators on him. they forced macadoo on him and i would argue the offense looks almost as dysfunctional as last year. or perhaps this past sunday's shitshow is coloring my perceptions.
We will regret the day Tom leaves if we fire him...even at 68.
I'd just like to see him with a D that can actually stop people and a special teams unit that is a contributor as opposed to an obstacle. Add to that an actual offensive line and who knows how good we could be.
Tom is still a brilliant coach but we need new blood as DC and so forth. Like I have said before, I would offer the world to Spags. Get some fire back in that defense.
You must not remember what happened with Fassel. The Giants told him he was going to be fired before the season ended, and it was all over the news.
He did hire Spags and promote Gillbride to OC no?
Head Coach/QB combo?
I think they used to do that back in the thirties. Where's dorgan to confirm?
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called in and suggested we hire Kurt Warner as head coach....
Head Coach/QB combo?
I think they used to do that back in the thirties. Where's dorgan to confirm?
Don't think Dorgan would remember then in the 30's, I believe he was in the Pleasant Valley Nursing Home at that time and couldn't get to a radio.
Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
I would too and I wouldn't think twice.
I have to think he's headed for either UMich or OAK, though. I don't think we'd have a good chance of hiring him and I think SF would be stupid to let him go. But apparently there's just too much tension between he and higher ups for whatever reason and it's going to force their hand.
TC is stubborn to a fault and his I see his best attributes also to be substantial detriments
What is a "Giant HC" ?
If we're going to rule coaches out no matter how good they may be based on personality, that's a crappy way to run a franchise.
I could do without Harbaugh's sideline antics but there is absolutely no denying that the guy can coach. He's done an outstanding job in SF.
He got them to an NFCC game with the same Alex Smith that everyone had been calling a complete bust for about 5 years.
I don't know what goes on between he and the FO and I'm not going to pretend to. But I'd much rather take a shot on a guy who knows how to get the most out of his football team than some "yes" man who is part of the Mara "tree"
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Your example is way off.
We have 11 years of information here.
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...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Need I recite all of the blowout losses over the past three years? The countless times the team has been unprepared on the most basic of levels - i.e. not coached properly?
I don't think anyone here is saying that TC isn't a great coach - he unquestionably is. But sometimes, you just need a change.
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...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
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...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Or you can answer Greg's question.
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is laughable. Yeah, every team in the NFL will be trampling each other to hire a 69-yr old coach. Even the Jets aren't that stupid. And, no, Tom is not the right guy to rebuild around. Sorry, Jacksonville was 20 years ago, and TC wasn't even 50. Is Marv Levy still alive? Maybe he's the guy to rebuild around!
TC's been a great coach, but even great coaches lose their edge. If the Giants were on the verge of winning, I'd be all in for bringing TC back, but I doubt very much that he would be the right guy, or even very interested in, rebuilding.
wow. This statement shows a complete lack of familiarity with anything related to the NFL in 2014.
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In comment 11986868 Greg from LI said:
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...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
It makes sense to me too. There's way too much talk about coaching around here. This team sucks! Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent, but Coughlin is the primary reason that they won't make the playoffs? Are people trying to make that claim about last year's team? Can someone really claim either or both of those things with a straight face? Red herring.
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
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Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Wasn't aware of that. My understanding is that BB basically has full control. Still bothers me that Mara butts in.
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
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" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
So, is the coaching staff ever held responsible for anything, on the negative side?
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would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
BS. Just today Eric posted an article about Mara analyzing Eli's future. You think he wont have a say in what happens next?
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Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Party why Parcells left, but had no issue with going to Dallas?
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" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
Unless you work for the team or have incredible inside information, how the hell would anyone know specifically what happens (or happened) behind closed doors? Way too speculative for my tastes.
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In comment 11987101 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
So a three win team with great "effort" (whatever that means) would be OK? Unless someone can claim that another coach would be producing significantly better results (i.e., wins) with this group, then laying a large share of the blame on coaching still sounds like a red herring to me.
Excellent point and why I think the fates of Coughlin and Reese, at this point, should be tied together.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
TTH, I think that is where the issue is with some.
It would be one thing if the Giants were on the bad luck side of these games and had many close finishes but lost.
But the way a good chunk of these games have gone down have been just car wrecks. Complete and thorough beatdowns. Non competitive games.
They haven't beaten a winning team with their starting quarterback in nearly TWO full calendar years (11/25/2012 vs. Green Bay) and that was when we thought they had good, quality talent.
And then you add just some of the dumb, low football IQ play you see on the field and the sideline communication breakdowns that keep happening, and it just adds up to one bad situation.
Got it, Greg. If TC has had a major influence on some of these personnel decisions, then certainly a case can be made to fire him. I just don't know how any of us could possibly know the (very specific) inner workings of the decision-making process though. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
And Greg is absolutely correct, there were many posters lauding about how the talent level changed when TC became coach, and made no bones about crediting TC for it. Now, however, it's not the coaching, it's the crappy talent!
And Greg is absolutely correct, there were many posters lauding about how the talent level changed when TC became coach, and made no bones about crediting TC for it. Now, however, it's not the coaching, it's the crappy talent!
That may be true, but I am not willing to make assumptions and speculate about the specifics. You may be, but I am not. For all I know, TC was against some of the specific moves that have been made in recent years and was overruled. There's absolutely no way for us to know one way or other. In any event, it doesn't matter because the people who will make the decision actually have all of the data (unlike us).
A caller asked him if he could see Coughlin coaching a college team.
Mike said yes. He didn't want to name a school because someone is currently hired in that position. He said he could see him coaching a middle of the road type university like Syracuse, his alma mater or Virginia or UConn. But not places like Ohio State or a lower tier school like say, Buffalo.
If Talent is a problem then yes Reese is to blame but so is Coughlin. Coughlin sets the roster, the starters and the depth. Coughlin chooses who to keep and who to let go in training camp and Coughlin is the one who decides who plays and who doesn't.
TC is a great coach but he isn't the right choice anymore for the NY Giants. The regime he has together now is unimaginative, predictable and stubborn to a fault.
And while some supporters here talk about what TC did with Jacksonville, he also eventually turned out the same way he is right now with the Gmen. The message is no longer new and when your talent isn't better than other people's talent then it comes down to execution and fundamentals (TC's own words) and yet this team is horrible at both and has been for years. In Jacksonville, though an expansion team, they had a very good QB, 2 very good to great WR's, huge and tough Oline with a nice running game and a solid defense. They were not lacking talent there. But, as that talent started to fade and needed to be replaced there were mistakes left and right and TC's message was lost on the players. His drafts were poor and the ability to change and do something different was either not there or not seen as being needed. That is very much what has happened here with the Giants.
Do not forget the 2011 season was close to being a missed playoff opportunity that then turned into a storied run to the Super Bowl. 2007 was another season where the team was very helter skelter early and most people had them bowing out of the playoffs early.
For many of the years under Coughlin this team would start well and fade in the second half of the season. Lately this team has just faded in the second half of games or in some games- Philly this year, Carolina last year and Atlanta the year before, the team doesn't even bother to show up. I am tired of the same comments, the same analogies, the same quotes and even the same look and sound of being surprised by the way the game was played because the practice was soo good. That to me says way more than anything else that is mentioned about TC, the lack of understanding why the team performed the way they did and the fact that it has happened a great many times.
Yes, Reese should go too but I doubt he will. He may in fact be given the chance to choose his own coach and I suspect that he will do just that. TC will be in the Hall of Fame but he is not the coach for the Giants right now or going forward.
I think it's time for a change too - you start with TC, and if that's not enough, you make your way through the FO and scouting org. Eventually, everyone's gone if there isn't any improvement. It's unfortunate, but to imply some serious peril is around the corner when we've been non-competitive for two seasons in a row and missed the playoffs for three is a little disingenuous.
Is anyone suggesting that TC somehow isn't getting the most out of a talent laden roster????? Garbage in, garbage out.
Why wouldn't you let a guy with 50 years of experience playing and coaching the game have input?
He moved to RI to spend time with his grandaughter and wife who he never sees is what i thought. Did not believe he was actively searching for employment.
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in scoring and yardage, lol. Literally nobody would even invite him for interviews.
He moved to RI to spend time with his grandaughter and wife who he never sees is what i thought. Did not believe he was actively searching for employment.
This.
I would bet if you polled BBI, at least 1/3 (maybe even the majority) would say that it's a fact that Gilbride was fired.
It seems to me that a good percentage of the "obvious facts" around here are only truly known to guys with names like Reese, Coughlin, and Mara.
I think it's time for a change too - you start with TC, and if that's not enough, you make your way through the FO and scouting org. Eventually, everyone's gone if there isn't any improvement. It's unfortunate, but to imply some serious peril is around the corner when we've been non-competitive for two seasons in a row and missed the playoffs for three is a little disingenuous.
Exactly. It'll be three seasons of mediocre/bad football once this season ends. They gave these guys 3 seasons to try to fix it, and they couldn't. It happens. It's not like they didn't give TC and co. a chance to turn things around. You can only beat around the bush (fire multiple coordinators) for so long, until you are finally forced to deal with the real situation. It's time for a change.