Sad state we are in right now. Almost sounds like a eulogy. First part of the show should be very interesting. I wish TC could go out on better terms but it seems like the final chapter is being written. :-( wFAN - ( New Window )
Eagles fans sounded when Andy was about to be let go there. Fortunately for both Andy and the Birds it seems to have been good for both. Nothing guarantees we will have the same luck.
Has always been very supportive of Coughlin and even got into it with Mad Dog at times over his criticism of Coughlin before the first SB and they split.
Francesa also has a relatively good relationship with the Giants. Wonder if he's being told things behind the scenes or is being used to help grease a respectable parting at seasons end.
If you recall the Giants eased the firing of Fassel a bit through the media first to gauge reaction and the temperament of the fans.
He's simply saying if they fire him, he can't argue with it.
It's a very rational position.
That is correct. He is not leaning one way or another. Just stating the facts and that guys like Tiki cannot choose now to try to win a personal battle with TC. TC won the battle years ago.
He is also saying he will be very tough to replace.
should come forward with Coughlin's fate sooner rather than later and not to leave him hanging....
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
should come forward with Coughlin's fate sooner rather than later and not to leave him hanging....
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
TTH, I agree as well.
If they lose on Sunday, it will be the 8th loss. The season will I think mathematically be over. The Giants ownership should not be making a judgement on him based on games against Jacksonville, Tennessee or Washington.
He has been here too long to be forced to have his future dangle around over the results of those games. They either know the answer on his future or they don't.
Either extend him and go forward or call it a wrap. It shouldn't take until Week 17 to figure this out with a respected man who has coached this team for all these years.
The Giants are having (almost) as embarrassing a season as the Jets. It pains me to say it, but they're 2-8 and we're 3-7 and we've both had a ton of embarrassing losses.
But to Mike's credit, we aren't getting the "DEY STINK!!!" rant. At least he's level headed enough to remember what these men have accomplished.
Next week- Win, lose or tie V Dallas... The team should put this to bed. Either Tom's this coach next year and beyond. Or have a heart to heart with Tom, so he can announce his retirement at the end of the season and let the rest of this year be a thanks for the memories coach.
Next week- Win, lose or tie V Dallas... The team should put this to bed. Either Tom's this coach next year and beyond. Or have a heart to heart with Tom, so he can announce his retirement at the end of the season and let the rest of this year be a thanks for the memories coach.
and nothing against TC, I love him as the HC, I would clean slate along with TC and staff. Also, GM and scouting dept needs to be either cleaned or/and reevaluated.
The Giants always wait until the season is over before they make any announced decision.If you were going to keep him you could come out and say that but that would set a precident going forward that if they don't say a coach is staying there would be even more speculation on the coach being fired.On the other hand they are not going to make him go through the motions as a lame duck.
Next week- Win, lose or tie V Dallas... The team should put this to bed. Either Tom's this coach next year and beyond. Or have a heart to heart with Tom, so he can announce his retirement at the end of the season and let the rest of this year be a thanks for the memories coach.
Absolutely agree. If you respect TC it is the best way to handle the situation no matter which way it goes.
I would be fine with keeping Coughlin if three things happen. One, they fire Fewell. Two, they fire Quinn. Three, they do NOT extend his contract. I would let next season with a new DC and a hopefully improved OL determine Coughlin's future with the team.
On the other hand, if the Giants chose to fire Coughlin after the last 2 seasons, I would completely understand. However, I would want that to come with a condition also. I think if you fire Coughlin, you also fire Reese.
There is so much right with announcing coughlin's fate before long but i wouldn't do that just yet. If I'm the giants I wait until around week 15-16 and then make the announcement that they will not be bringing coach back. It's right on so many levels. But no need to say anything now or next few weeks.
I'd love nothing more than to go to the last game with the universal knowledge that coughlin is leaving. It would be a celebration for a great head coach. Tom deserves to be serenaded all afternoon instead of hearing boos. And if the fans know it's official they will treat Tom very well that last game or two.
They've made tom fire about 6 differen coordinators and coaches
At some point you can't keep trying to play that card.
Not firing him but removing his entire staff is not what you do with accomplished head coaches. Everybody says firing him is disrespectful. So is neutering him and stripping away his credibility in picking a staff.
1. If the owners are listening to their overprivileged, overreacting fan base, they deserve what is going to happen. Coughlin won't have anything to argue about because there are no laws saying owners can't be stupid. Jerrah has raised it to an art form.
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
The Giants probably don't even know what they're going to do right
now and won't be locked into anything for quite awhile still.
Also, I absolutely wouldn't bank on fans "serenading" him with a great goodbye if there was some sort of head's up. Giants fans, largely, are a pretty awful crowd and the fan base in general seems to need years to really get their nostalgia hard-on for someone (and, then, it's on forever to a point of total revisionism in many cases).
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is revisionist history. You make it sound like Del Rio took a great team in Jacksonville and destroyed it. Coughlin was 7-9, 6-10, 6-10 in his final 3 seasons there, and was so because of poor cap management and the need to cut good core players from their previous winning seasons.
Honestly, this is not all that different a path than the Giants are on. 7-9 last season, look to be heading to even worse this season.
there has been a disturbing trend of management forcing coughlin to make major changes to his approach that dates back his being hired.
2004- fire hufnagel. also, eli had to approach him about simplifying the offense after putting up a 0.0 QBR v baltimore. the following week their offense scored 30 points in a close game v pittsburgh after looking like dogshit for the first few weeks; 2005- stop being a complete asshole to everyone in the press. 2006- stop screaming like an insane person on the sideline at everyone within 50 feet of you... and fire tim lewis; 2009- fire sheridan; 2013- install an offense that is not an embarrassment; 2014- fire perry fewell (presumably).
the giants have actively forced coughlin to make moves he wasn't inclined to make without being prompted, and there is no indication he was even convinced any of the aforementioned issues were problematic. a good coach recognizes problems on his staff. coughlin can't seem to do this, and frankly, never has. his insistence on playing players who are past their prime is troubling as well. from what i understand his tenure in jacksonville ended much the same way. a stubborn insistence on holding onto "his guys" who had "gone to war with him" at the expense of team success. remember when he ran a hobbled bradshaw into the ground in 2012 while wilson stayed glued to the bench the entire season?
why retain him at all at this point if they're just going to force one or two new coordinators on him. they forced macadoo on him and i would argue the offense looks almost as dysfunctional as last year. or perhaps this past sunday's shitshow is coloring my perceptions.
The only issue I have with Tom is that he has hired
bad coordinators. Fewell and Quinn are terrible. I think McAdoo has a chance if given time. I want Tom back with a new DC and a new ST coordinator. Will Tom accept that or will he say screw it and retire?
We will regret the day Tom leaves if we fire him...even at 68.
I'd just like to see him with a D that can actually stop people and a special teams unit that is a contributor as opposed to an obstacle. Add to that an actual offensive line and who knows how good we could be.
Tom is still a brilliant coach but we need new blood as DC and so forth. Like I have said before, I would offer the world to Spags. Get some fire back in that defense.
The Giants always wait until the season is over before they make any announced decision.If you were going to keep him you could come out and say that but that would set a precident going forward that if they don't say a coach is staying there would be even more speculation on the coach being fired.On the other hand they are not going to make him go through the motions as a lame duck.
You must not remember what happened with Fassel. The Giants told him he was going to be fired before the season ended, and it was all over the news.
Hiring coordinators is a pretty big part of an NFL HC's job, usually.
It's a very rational position.
Francesa also has a relatively good relationship with the Giants. Wonder if he's being told things behind the scenes or is being used to help grease a respectable parting at seasons end.
If you recall the Giants eased the firing of Fassel a bit through the media first to gauge reaction and the temperament of the fans.
It's a very rational position.
That is correct. He is not leaning one way or another. Just stating the facts and that guys like Tiki cannot choose now to try to win a personal battle with TC. TC won the battle years ago.
He is also saying he will be very tough to replace.
You're right, Ten Ton, no one here cares much for you! ;-)
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
Quote:
Based on what I read here it's not like anyone cared much for me.
You're right, Ten Ton, no one here cares much for you! ;-)
This is what I get for posting when I should be working, lol
Quote:
should come forward with Coughlin's fate sooner rather than later and not to leave him hanging....
I think that's fair. His argument:
He's been here 11 years. You know what he is. They haven't beaten a winning team all season. Now they have divisional games and games against junk teams left to go. What can happen over the last 6 games that should change your opinion?
TTH, I agree as well.
If they lose on Sunday, it will be the 8th loss. The season will I think mathematically be over. The Giants ownership should not be making a judgement on him based on games against Jacksonville, Tennessee or Washington.
He has been here too long to be forced to have his future dangle around over the results of those games. They either know the answer on his future or they don't.
Either extend him and go forward or call it a wrap. It shouldn't take until Week 17 to figure this out with a respected man who has coached this team for all these years.
I liked Fassel. You, not so much.
But to Mike's credit, we aren't getting the "DEY STINK!!!" rant. At least he's level headed enough to remember what these men have accomplished.
+1
We also don't know if this has happened or not.
Said its a difficult thing for him to say but "It's time"
Caller finally asked him what he'd do. Said he thinks it's time, while also saying he's never once called for him to be fired and loves him.
I don't think he's ever said that before.
Absolutely agree. If you respect TC it is the best way to handle the situation no matter which way it goes.
On the other hand, if the Giants chose to fire Coughlin after the last 2 seasons, I would completely understand. However, I would want that to come with a condition also. I think if you fire Coughlin, you also fire Reese.
I'd love nothing more than to go to the last game with the universal knowledge that coughlin is leaving. It would be a celebration for a great head coach. Tom deserves to be serenaded all afternoon instead of hearing boos. And if the fans know it's official they will treat Tom very well that last game or two.
Not firing him but removing his entire staff is not what you do with accomplished head coaches. Everybody says firing him is disrespectful. So is neutering him and stripping away his credibility in picking a staff.
Amen to that.
Self loathing, TTH? :-)
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
Also, I absolutely wouldn't bank on fans "serenading" him with a great goodbye if there was some sort of head's up. Giants fans, largely, are a pretty awful crowd and the fan base in general seems to need years to really get their nostalgia hard-on for someone (and, then, it's on forever to a point of total revisionism in many cases).
Most of them are probably simultaneously posting on BBI.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is revisionist history. You make it sound like Del Rio took a great team in Jacksonville and destroyed it. Coughlin was 7-9, 6-10, 6-10 in his final 3 seasons there, and was so because of poor cap management and the need to cut good core players from their previous winning seasons.
Honestly, this is not all that different a path than the Giants are on. 7-9 last season, look to be heading to even worse this season.
Old men like coughlin coach are too conservative. Garrett is too conservative ( gotta love that one) and Eli only plays well when his OL is awesome.
My god I hate NYC Dallas fans more than I hate any single form of life on this planet.
2004- fire hufnagel. also, eli had to approach him about simplifying the offense after putting up a 0.0 QBR v baltimore. the following week their offense scored 30 points in a close game v pittsburgh after looking like dogshit for the first few weeks; 2005- stop being a complete asshole to everyone in the press. 2006- stop screaming like an insane person on the sideline at everyone within 50 feet of you... and fire tim lewis; 2009- fire sheridan; 2013- install an offense that is not an embarrassment; 2014- fire perry fewell (presumably).
the giants have actively forced coughlin to make moves he wasn't inclined to make without being prompted, and there is no indication he was even convinced any of the aforementioned issues were problematic. a good coach recognizes problems on his staff. coughlin can't seem to do this, and frankly, never has. his insistence on playing players who are past their prime is troubling as well. from what i understand his tenure in jacksonville ended much the same way. a stubborn insistence on holding onto "his guys" who had "gone to war with him" at the expense of team success. remember when he ran a hobbled bradshaw into the ground in 2012 while wilson stayed glued to the bench the entire season?
why retain him at all at this point if they're just going to force one or two new coordinators on him. they forced macadoo on him and i would argue the offense looks almost as dysfunctional as last year. or perhaps this past sunday's shitshow is coloring my perceptions.
We will regret the day Tom leaves if we fire him...even at 68.
I'd just like to see him with a D that can actually stop people and a special teams unit that is a contributor as opposed to an obstacle. Add to that an actual offensive line and who knows how good we could be.
Tom is still a brilliant coach but we need new blood as DC and so forth. Like I have said before, I would offer the world to Spags. Get some fire back in that defense.
You must not remember what happened with Fassel. The Giants told him he was going to be fired before the season ended, and it was all over the news.