Sad state we are in right now. Almost sounds like a eulogy. First part of the show should be very interesting. I wish TC could go out on better terms but it seems like the final chapter is being written. :-( wFAN - ( New Window )
I have to think he's headed for either UMich or OAK, though. I don't think we'd have a good chance of hiring him and I think SF would be stupid to let him go. But apparently there's just too much tension between he and higher ups for whatever reason and it's going to force their hand.
including ownership takes into account when they pick a head coach. By many accounts, Jim Harbaugh is combative, wants a large amount of organizational control, and a lot of money with that.
This place is gonna be something else if Coughlin is retained
I wouldn't bet on Harbaugh coming here, the reasoning is just stupid. He completely turned around a franchise that was in the dumpster and hadn't had a winning season in a decade and has gotten them at least to the NFCC game every single year he's been there. He was one play away from having a ring on his finger.
He got them to an NFCC game with the same Alex Smith that everyone had been calling a complete bust for about 5 years.
I don't know what goes on between he and the FO and I'm not going to pretend to. But I'd much rather take a shot on a guy who knows how to get the most out of his football team than some "yes" man who is part of the Mara "tree"
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Need I recite all of the blowout losses over the past three years? The countless times the team has been unprepared on the most basic of levels - i.e. not coached properly?
I don't think anyone here is saying that TC isn't a great coach - he unquestionably is. But sometimes, you just need a change.
so he "had the horses" in 2011....but not in 2009? 2010? 2012?
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
1. If the owners are listening to their overprivileged, overreacting fan base, they deserve what is going to happen. Coughlin won't have anything to argue about because there are no laws saying owners can't be stupid. Jerrah has raised it to an art form.
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is laughable. Yeah, every team in the NFL will be trampling each other to hire a 69-yr old coach. Even the Jets aren't that stupid. And, no, Tom is not the right guy to rebuild around. Sorry, Jacksonville was 20 years ago, and TC wasn't even 50. Is Marv Levy still alive? Maybe he's the guy to rebuild around!
TC's been a great coach, but even great coaches lose their edge. If the Giants were on the verge of winning, I'd be all in for bringing TC back, but I doubt very much that he would be the right guy, or even very interested in, rebuilding.
Where's he working? Oh right, he "retired." I hope Coughlin's back, but forecasting doom for the franchise because Mara may entertain letting him go after another poor season is a little much. As far as Mara operating "without adult supervision," he's been doing so since 2005, and has already matched dad's Super Bowl total. I'm not a huge John Mara fan, but he's proven very loyal thus far.
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
It makes sense to me too. There's way too much talk about coaching around here. This team sucks! Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent, but Coughlin is the primary reason that they won't make the playoffs? Are people trying to make that claim about last year's team? Can someone really claim either or both of those things with a straight face? Red herring.
Gilbride couldn't even get a job when the offense was top ten
would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
The team sucks....does Tom Coughlin play no role whatsoever in the composition of said team? Really? After years of his boosters talking about how much input he had into personnel, unlike that boob Fassel?
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Wasn't aware of that. My understanding is that BB basically has full control. Still bothers me that Mara butts in.
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
So, is the coaching staff ever held responsible for anything, on the negative side?
would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
BS. Just today Eric posted an article about Mara analyzing Eli's future. You think he wont have a say in what happens next?
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Party why Parcells left, but had no issue with going to Dallas?
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
The team sucks....does Tom Coughlin play no role whatsoever in the composition of said team? Really? After years of his boosters talking about how much input he had into personnel, unlike that boob Fassel?
Unless you work for the team or have incredible inside information, how the hell would anyone know specifically what happens (or happened) behind closed doors? Way too speculative for my tastes.
Not accusing you of this, but there are certain loud Coughlin cheerleaders (*cough*GENE*cough*) who have talked for many years about how influential Coughlin is on personnel matters as yet another reason he's the awesomest coach who's ever put on a headset.
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
So a three win team with great "effort" (whatever that means) would be OK? Unless someone can claim that another coach would be producing significantly better results (i.e., wins) with this group, then laying a large share of the blame on coaching still sounds like a red herring to me.
Not accusing you of this, but there are certain loud Coughlin cheerleaders (*cough*GENE*cough*) who have talked for many years about how influential Coughlin is on personnel matters as yet another reason he's the awesomest coach who's ever put on a headset.
Excellent point and why I think the fates of Coughlin and Reese, at this point, should be tied together.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
TTH, I think that is where the issue is with some.
It would be one thing if the Giants were on the bad luck side of these games and had many close finishes but lost.
But the way a good chunk of these games have gone down have been just car wrecks. Complete and thorough beatdowns. Non competitive games.
They haven't beaten a winning team with their starting quarterback in nearly TWO full calendar years (11/25/2012 vs. Green Bay) and that was when we thought they had good, quality talent.
And then you add just some of the dumb, low football IQ play you see on the field and the sideline communication breakdowns that keep happening, and it just adds up to one bad situation.
Not accusing you of this, but there are certain loud Coughlin cheerleaders (*cough*GENE*cough*) who have talked for many years about how influential Coughlin is on personnel matters as yet another reason he's the awesomest coach who's ever put on a headset.
Got it, Greg. If TC has had a major influence on some of these personnel decisions, then certainly a case can be made to fire him. I just don't know how any of us could possibly know the (very specific) inner workings of the decision-making process though. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I find it hard to believe that a veteran coach like TC,
especially one with a SB or 2 on his resume, wouldn't have extensive influence in personnel decisions. Not final say, but plenty of input.
And Greg is absolutely correct, there were many posters lauding about how the talent level changed when TC became coach, and made no bones about crediting TC for it. Now, however, it's not the coaching, it's the crappy talent!
He did hire Spags and promote Gillbride to OC no?
Head Coach/QB combo?
I think they used to do that back in the thirties. Where's dorgan to confirm?
Quote:
called in and suggested we hire Kurt Warner as head coach....
Head Coach/QB combo?
I think they used to do that back in the thirties. Where's dorgan to confirm?
Don't think Dorgan would remember then in the 30's, I believe he was in the Pleasant Valley Nursing Home at that time and couldn't get to a radio.
Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
I would too and I wouldn't think twice.
I have to think he's headed for either UMich or OAK, though. I don't think we'd have a good chance of hiring him and I think SF would be stupid to let him go. But apparently there's just too much tension between he and higher ups for whatever reason and it's going to force their hand.
TC is stubborn to a fault and his I see his best attributes also to be substantial detriments
What is a "Giant HC" ?
If we're going to rule coaches out no matter how good they may be based on personality, that's a crappy way to run a franchise.
I could do without Harbaugh's sideline antics but there is absolutely no denying that the guy can coach. He's done an outstanding job in SF.
He got them to an NFCC game with the same Alex Smith that everyone had been calling a complete bust for about 5 years.
I don't know what goes on between he and the FO and I'm not going to pretend to. But I'd much rather take a shot on a guy who knows how to get the most out of his football team than some "yes" man who is part of the Mara "tree"
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Your example is way off.
We have 11 years of information here.
Quote:
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Need I recite all of the blowout losses over the past three years? The countless times the team has been unprepared on the most basic of levels - i.e. not coached properly?
I don't think anyone here is saying that TC isn't a great coach - he unquestionably is. But sometimes, you just need a change.
Quote:
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
Quote:
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
Or you can answer Greg's question.
2. Coughlin will have NFL head coaching offers 24 hours after the Giants let him go. The first one will be from the Jets.
3. Why would a team in re-build mode want Coughlin. After all, he built the Jags from an expansion team into the AFC championship game. He built them again only to have the owner (who admitted it was the dumbest decision he made in his life) turn it over to Jughead Jack Del Rio and then took the Giants and won two Lombardis. Yeah, wrong guy to do a rebuild.
This is laughable. Yeah, every team in the NFL will be trampling each other to hire a 69-yr old coach. Even the Jets aren't that stupid. And, no, Tom is not the right guy to rebuild around. Sorry, Jacksonville was 20 years ago, and TC wasn't even 50. Is Marv Levy still alive? Maybe he's the guy to rebuild around!
TC's been a great coach, but even great coaches lose their edge. If the Giants were on the verge of winning, I'd be all in for bringing TC back, but I doubt very much that he would be the right guy, or even very interested in, rebuilding.
wow. This statement shows a complete lack of familiarity with anything related to the NFL in 2014.
Quote:
In comment 11986868 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
...is there ever a point at which Coughlin is responsible for the poor performance of his team?
Please, it's simple logic. Here's the question. If the guy has the horses, can he win? Yes, he's proven it multiple times. Can he build a winner? Yes, he's done it multiple times at several levels. This walk the plank shit because the "coach is responsible" is a knee-jerk Jerrah move.
Lots of us went through this in the 60's and 70's. You can change coaches all you want, bring in the latest and greatest coordinator and make him the HC. Nothing is going to change without the horses and if you get the horses, you don't know if the new guy will recognize he has them or squander them if he does.
So, I am going to put my money on the guy who has proven he can do the job given the raw materials-multiple times. You guys can bet on the unknown quantity furnished by ownership who are operating without adult supervision for the first time in 40 years. Best of luck to you.
This makes a great deal of sense to me.
If I was Mara I let TC rebuild it. He has the track record. I do not believe in change for change sake.
Guy has the track record, to me there is a better than 90% chance his successor is much worse.
It makes sense to me too. There's way too much talk about coaching around here. This team sucks! Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent, but Coughlin is the primary reason that they won't make the playoffs? Are people trying to make that claim about last year's team? Can someone really claim either or both of those things with a straight face? Red herring.
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Quote:
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Wasn't aware of that. My understanding is that BB basically has full control. Still bothers me that Mara butts in.
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
Quote:
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
So, is the coaching staff ever held responsible for anything, on the negative side?
Quote:
would Harbaugh want to coach the Giants? Mara, IMO, inputs too much of his own say onto the football Ops, which I highly doubt would fly with Harbaugh. Isn't that one of the supposed reasons he's "leaving" SF. Believe that when I see it.
Also speaks to the fact that John Mara pisses me off. Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
How many rings does John Mara have?? What exactly is your definition of success? You guys spout off some of the dumbest shit. Mara stays behind the scenes as much as any owner in the sport. It is only when guys need to be hired/fired who run his team that he gets involved.
BS. Just today Eric posted an article about Mara analyzing Eli's future. You think he wont have a say in what happens next?
Quote:
Does Robert Kraft have any say with regard to constructing the roster? We all know franchises with owners who involve themsleves too much on the football side of the franchise do not have great success. God that guy annoys me.
Robert Kraft likes to be involved. That's partly why Parcells left.
Party why Parcells left, but had no issue with going to Dallas?
Quote:
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
Unless you work for the team or have incredible inside information, how the hell would anyone know specifically what happens (or happened) behind closed doors? Way too speculative for my tastes.
Quote:
In comment 11987101 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
" Are there people here who honestly believe that this year's team has playoff-caliber talent"
But you can still look at what you're getting from the players that you have. They should not be a 3-win, quit in the 4th quarter, mistake prone team
OK, so it's not a playoff team. It's not a good team. Exactly. How many wins "should" they have then and how do make such a fine-grained determination? How many wins would a "great" coach have with this group?
You're taking your eye off the ball.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
So a three win team with great "effort" (whatever that means) would be OK? Unless someone can claim that another coach would be producing significantly better results (i.e., wins) with this group, then laying a large share of the blame on coaching still sounds like a red herring to me.
Excellent point and why I think the fates of Coughlin and Reese, at this point, should be tied together.
They should be performing better than this. Effort has been a problem. Veterans playing dumb football has been a problem.
You can play a good game and not come away with the wins to show for it.
They don't play any kind of consistent or good football.
TTH, I think that is where the issue is with some.
It would be one thing if the Giants were on the bad luck side of these games and had many close finishes but lost.
But the way a good chunk of these games have gone down have been just car wrecks. Complete and thorough beatdowns. Non competitive games.
They haven't beaten a winning team with their starting quarterback in nearly TWO full calendar years (11/25/2012 vs. Green Bay) and that was when we thought they had good, quality talent.
And then you add just some of the dumb, low football IQ play you see on the field and the sideline communication breakdowns that keep happening, and it just adds up to one bad situation.
Got it, Greg. If TC has had a major influence on some of these personnel decisions, then certainly a case can be made to fire him. I just don't know how any of us could possibly know the (very specific) inner workings of the decision-making process though. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
And Greg is absolutely correct, there were many posters lauding about how the talent level changed when TC became coach, and made no bones about crediting TC for it. Now, however, it's not the coaching, it's the crappy talent!