For the simple fact that I believe the Giants aren't going to be in a position to contend again for 2-3 years, at which point Manning will be 35-36 years old.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
No one would ever offer it, though. That's the thing.
Any team finishing with a top 10 pick almost certainly needs to rebuild or is in the process of doing so. You don't dump a premium draft pick for an aging vet QB because teams with picks that high aren't going to be one player away.
Eli for one pick that you then have to use on a QB?
No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Some just dont understand the importance of a Franchise QB
and yes Eli is just that.. this is an offensive league, and a QB is essential.. look at all of the other teams desperately reaching for QB's and found no luck like Tennessee.. Jax etc..
If they throw in a 10 foot long party sub along with the number 1 pick
draft that doesn't come around often, much like Eli was when he came out, but I don't see one in this draft. Why do people around here want to get ride of Eli so bad? What makes that a good football decision? Seems like you would take a huge step back if you got ride of him no matter how many picks you get because you still would have an unknown at QB.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
RE: You'd consider it if there was an Andrew Luck type player in the
draft that doesn't come around often, much like Eli was when he came out, but I don't see one in this draft. Why do people around here want to get ride of Eli so bad? What makes that a good football decision? Seems like you would take a huge step back if you got ride of him no matter how many picks you get because you still would have an unknown at QB.
^This. No Andrew Luck in this draft, so no. For two #1s though, yes. And that comes from someone who wouldn't extend Eli, just pay him the $17M he's owed next season. Last Sunday notwithstanding, Eli has played well this year. He has limited weapons, no running game, and an OL that can't pass or run block. Reese, not Eli, is the problem.
But it's all moot, because nobody would give us a #1 for Eli.
He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
I actually don't want to get rid of Eli and think he can be part of a solution but we also have to understand that Eli likely doesn't have a ton of years left in him and that this team is more than just a couple pieces away. We really need to rebuild and adding a top 10 pick on top of what is likely to be another one or a pick on the cusp of one would be a major help and an opportunity to expedite that process.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
Even if its Oakland's.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
Your right there is not guarantee it will work...
Here is my thinking on why you do it though...
You lose Eli's salary and gain a lot of cap room to work on the other holes on this team, which there are a lot of
Mariota can be the heir apparent and if it pans out would realy kick start the rebuild...I think he is a perfect fit for this system..
The other draft pick would be BPA, adds more talent to this team...
the main thing that draws me to this scenario is the added cap room you gain to fill out this roster..
definitely... and then the Giants get James Winston in the draft
They already have a lot of talent on that team...they have a veteran HC who probably is not looking to draft another QB high...the have a young RB who looks like he can be a stud..
The Rams are probably a good Vet Qb away from contending...
I still don't understand what good trading Eli does the Giants in the short term or long term. He gives us the best chance to win another super bowl in the next 5 years. You can say they have so much rebuilding to do it won't happen, but that's bullshit too. They aren't that far off. Injuries always play a factor, but next season, they continue to beef up the oline and get playmakers back like Prince, Cruz, and Beason you might have a squad.
And I'd be willing to give Nassib a shot next year. He might suck....but there's reason to think he might be pretty decent. He's got a great arm, has shown good accuracy, made good reads in pre-season, has decent mobility and showed great competitivenss at Syracuse and this pre-season. There are certainly no guarantees with him, but it's not a given that he would suck.
Trading Eli is the quickest way for us to rebuild. Say you got a 1st and a 2nd round pick for him (which wouldn't be crazy). Two extra high draft picks plus $20 million in cap space could go a LONG LONG way in helping this team rebuild.
Like Greg referred to, the only real reason to keep him is if you think we are going to contend in the next 2-3 years. The irony is that Eli's cap hit is one of the biggest barriers to rebuilding the team.
If you take away the emotional factor and look at this objectively it's a very tough call to make.....and not nearly as simply as some of the glib responses here imply.
#1 it is and if Winston is available (as in not in jail or going there) along with Mariota. Becaused you would likely have to get one or the other to replace Eli. If we had a #8 because of our record, and we got another pick 6 thru 10 or better, I'd be tempted.
Eli Manning is our guy. I love him as our quarterback and I think he is going to have plenty of success with us moving forward. I am fully confident in his abilities and the bashing he's received here has been ignorant and unwarranted.
But in this make-believe, fairy tale scenario where a team offers us a #1 pick? If it were a top 10 pick, yes I'd take it.
The Cardinals franchise QB just tore his ACL for the second time, after returning from shoulder surgery.
I think they're having buyers remorse and there's a good chance Palmer is IR'd next year.
Their D, and offense other than QB are legit, who knows maybe Stanton is their guy, but I don't think Palmer's contract would stop them. I don't think they'll draft a rookie QB, but they'd possibly trade for a veteran.
but, they were just examples. The key is a veteran team, solid offense, needs a QB.
RE: RE: Yes, but no team is offering a top 10 pick for Eli at this point.
He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Useless to the franchise?
Yes, useless, as in he's not actually helping them accomplish anything right now (not that it's primarily his fault; the team has pretty much done wrong by him, as far as I'm concerned, with what they've surrounded him with).
They suck with him and very likely will for the next couple seasons, as they hopefully rebuild (they don't have the high end talent to do a quick one, like you'll see with some other teams and their insta-turns). By the time they might actually be good again, he's going to likely be fizzling out and will have, from his perspective, had a significant portion of his career wasted and of his "legacy" destroyed.
They'll suck without him too, but at least, in theory, they'll have the cap space and extra draft pick(s) to acquire talent to more easily/better help them not suck down the line. And he'll at least have had a better shot at making the playoffs and having a few more good seasons, before he's done, if he lands in the right place.
Even if its Oakland's.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
You'd essentially be trading Eli for Mariota or Winston, which I wouldn't do.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
RE: RE: Eli for one pick that you then have to use on a QB?
No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
Yes fully understanding. Trading Manning for an unproven rookie QB. The other pick has nothing to do with it because you have it with or without Manning. It would be a dumb trade and gain you nothing. If it was the 1st overall and there was a player like Luck, I'd consider it, but there isn't one in this draft.
You'd essentially be trading Eli for Mariota or Winston, which I wouldn't do.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
OK, Eli for Mariota and cap space. Still wouldn't do it...
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
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They certainly don't give me that Andrew Luck feel where I'm going to give up my 2x Super Bowl MVP for them. Especially in Winston's case with all those Chinese Buffets near the stadium with the carb legs.
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
And how much longer does Eli give us that relative to how long it will take to put another SB contending caliber roster around him?
Eli isn't in his 20's anymore, that's the problem. And he's not going to be around forever.
I love the guy as much as anyone and I'd love to see him win another one here before he finally hangs them up. I just think this roster has too many holes and it's going to take a couple years to fill them if we're lucky. By then, is Eli going to still have it? Odds aren't good.
RE: RE: RE: Eli for one pick that you then have to use on a QB?
No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
Yes fully understanding. Trading Manning for an unproven rookie QB. The other pick has nothing to do with it because you have it with or without Manning. It would be a dumb trade and gain you nothing. If it was the 1st overall and there was a player like Luck, I'd consider it, but there isn't one in this draft.
Ok then you dont do it..Like i said before it comes down to what you think of Mariota...
This trade also gets you a ton of Cap space to fill out the holes on this roster so if you think Mariota is good then the trade becomes a lot more appealing..if you dont then really no reason to do the trade...
But, let me be clear. I am not advocating trading Eli. I am not advocating cutting Eli. In fact, I would consider extending Eli to lessen his cap hit.
This is a moot point, because nobody is offering a #1 for him. But, if someone did, I think you have to do it to try to reload quicker. I would NOT trade him for anything less than a #1.
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
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They certainly don't give me that Andrew Luck feel where I'm going to give up my 2x Super Bowl MVP for them. Especially in Winston's case with all those Chinese Buffets near the stadium with the carb legs.
I wouldnt touch Winston...If Mariota is gone i do not touch this trade...
I think Mariota is going to be very good in this league thats why i would do this move...
But, let me be clear. I am not advocating trading Eli. I am not advocating cutting Eli. In fact, I would consider extending Eli to lessen his cap hit.
This is a moot point, because nobody is offering a #1 for him. But, if someone did, I think you have to do it to try to reload quicker. I would NOT trade him for anything less than a #1.
I am not advocating getting rid of Eli either...i am just putting a scenario out there to see what people think...
developed in to a QB capable of bringing this team a SB. Covering for Eli for a couple of weeks? Maybe he could do that. Franchise QB? Not impossible, but I would be surprised if he developed into that.
What we have in Eli is a QB that you only hope that your franchise can get once in a franchise. And he can play at least another 4 years, easy, IMO.
Our biggest shortcomings involve not restocking our Oline with any sense of urgency--by undervaluing the position, thinking we can fill in adequately with teams' cast offs and later round picks, perhaps grabbing a 1st or 2nd rounder here and there. Except QB is one position and Oline is 5 plus their backups and we need a bunch of good players, yet only have a couple.
The other shortcoming is that Fewell doesn't appear to be any good.
So look away from Eli (his 5 INTS the other day worry you? Have you forgotten Peyton's 6 INT day?) and focus on supporting cast.
What we have in Eli is a QB that you only hope that your franchise can get once in a franchise. And he can play at least another 4 years, easy, IMO.
Our biggest shortcomings involve not restocking our Oline with any sense of urgency--by undervaluing the position, thinking we can fill in adequately with teams' cast offs and later round picks, perhaps grabbing a 1st or 2nd rounder here and there. Except QB is one position and Oline is 5 plus their backups and we need a bunch of good players, yet only have a couple.
The other shortcoming is that Fewell doesn't appear to be any good.
So look away from Eli (his 5 INTS the other day worry you? Have you forgotten Peyton's 6 INT day?) and focus on supporting cast.
Right. Every year teams go from worst to first. It can be done with the Giants team because we have Eli, we found the hardest thing to find in the NFL a franchise QB and trading it away would do no good for the Giants.
And why do you have to take Mariota or Winston to do this?
What if you spend one of those picks on a OT? What if you spend one on DE. Or both on the OL? Or a WR + OL/LB ?
You don't HAVE to take Mariota or Winston. You can try to strengthen other areas and give Nassib a shot.
So next year is a throw-away year?
I'd call it a rebuilding year rather than just label it that like this year when it clearly isn't.
This team isn't a player or two away. We need a lot of help and we need to do it the right way. Trying to plug holes haphazardly isn't going to get the job done.
If you can spend 2 premium 1st rd picks to bring in 2 more top shelf talents it could help the future of this football team big time just like OBJ is going to.
We're not going to contend next year anyway even if we try to "go for it". We're just not close enough. It'll just be a further mismanagement of resources.
Apparently Britt is annoyed by even the thought of life after Eli, let alone by discussing it.
We all know you'd get on your knees for him, but he's not going to be around forever and a smart team is already thinking ahead. Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers (and not with a top 5 pick) when their legendary, SB winning QB was 35. Eli will be 34 in less than 2 months.
Do the math. Or keep whining. Whichever.
Teams that have really quick turns usually have more high-end
This team, even before the injuries, was highly populated with a bunch of JAGs, with only a select few top tier or young high-potential locked in pieces.
Next year is probably going to be another throw away year, regardless of whether Eli is on the team or not.
Apparently Britt is annoyed by even the thought of life after Eli, let alone by discussing it.
We all know you'd get on your knees for him, but he's not going to be around forever and a smart team is already thinking ahead. Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers (and not with a top 5 pick) when their legendary, SB winning QB was 35. Eli will be 34 in less than 2 months.
Do the math. Or keep whining. Whichever.
So then they can draft Mariotta with their current top 10 pick and let him develop behind Eli for a couple of seasons. If they did that in the draft, I for one wouldn't complain. But why force it by getting rid of Eli to get him?
Apparently Britt is annoyed by even the thought of life after Eli, let alone by discussing it.
We all know you'd get on your knees for him, but he's not going to be around forever and a smart team is already thinking ahead. Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers (and not with a top 5 pick) when their legendary, SB winning QB was 35. Eli will be 34 in less than 2 months.
Do the math. Or keep whining. Whichever.
Wow, nice response. Not going to stoop to your level. Have a good one.
look around at some of the franchises with no QB's, they are just in purgatory and have been for a long time. Eli is 33 and has shown he can be as good as anyone when he has protection. So what if he isn't Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, or Luck? He is capable of winning a Super Bowl. So let's dump him for an unknown draft pick when it might take a decade to find another QB as good as him. Moronic.
Build the team around another Eli run kind of like what Dallas has done rebuilding the line with a great running game.
There aren't as many good QB's in this league as some of you think.
There is no one in CFB that looks like a franchise QB. Mariota, Winston, Cook, Hundley, Hackenburg (MAYBE him, but he's been awful this year), Prescott,... all big have flaws and more flaws than the first round QBs of the past. There is no one who is sure-fire like Luck or close to a sure-fire like Eli or Stafford out there.
after the Redskins game. I just can't get over how people would trade Eli at 33 years old when he has had a putrid offensive line. QB is the toughest position to find in the NFL. We have a Super Bowl capable QB, and people want to dump him for a top ten draft pick.
A) You believe the front office can successfully rebuild the team around Eli within a window where we can still be a contender with him under center
or..
B) You believe it will take longer than just a year or two to completely turn it around and build a sustainable winner again and by the time that happens, Eli will either no longer be playing or just will not be good enough.
Remember, he is going to be 34 years old just after this season ends and will be nearing 35 at the start of the next one. Unless you believe Eli is still going to be a championship caliber QB at age 36 or 37 (and I don't), it is hard to envision a scenario where this team can make another run.
Which is why I'd put myself in the camp of "B" if I had to choose.
This does not mean I want Eli out the door or want to dump him. I just have a hard time believing this team will be able to fix all of its issues in time to be a Championship caliber team once more with Eli still able to lead us.
Right now, I DO think Eli is still good enough to win with. I'm just not sure how much longer he will be and so, I think it would be a better franchise move to gain premium picks to expedite the rebuild process.
That's just how I look at it. I'm not saying it's right.
RE: Geez he has one bad game and people want to dump him?
look around at some of the franchises with no QB's, they are just in purgatory and have been for a long time. Eli is 33 and has shown he can be as good as anyone when he has protection. So what if he isn't Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, or Luck? He is capable of winning a Super Bowl. So let's dump him for an unknown draft pick when it might take a decade to find another QB as good as him. Moronic.
Build the team around another Eli run kind of like what Dallas has done rebuilding the line with a great running game.
There aren't as many good QB's in this league as some of you think.
Most people in this thread aren't looking to dump him or killing him for one bad game. Frankly, those backing trading him (to a competitive team/team closer to competing), if anything, are probably on the side of the best thing anyone could wish/want for him, as a player, at this point.
The Giants, at a team, are in a really terrible spot right now and getting them to a better spot is probably far enough away that, even if he's still got, say, four good ones, left in him, there's a good chance he's not a real part of that. This organization and he really aren't a great pairing anymore, for either side.
My comment was meant for those who can't fathom thinking beyond Manning as the Giants' QB (like our buddy in VA). It's coming, maybe soon. Rodgers, recall, was a late first round pick. Not touted at the time as a "sure thing". Favre was coming off a 30 TD, 4k, 10-6 season. There's a reason the Packers are the 2nd best run franchise in the NFL. They plan beyond the current year.
Winston isn't mature enough to start right away, but if the Giants thought he was BPA at 12-15, I wouldn't mind the selection to groom. Not saying that's definitely the way to go, but not because "they have Eli".
after the Redskins game. I just can't get over how people would trade Eli at 33 years old when he has had a putrid offensive line. QB is the toughest position to find in the NFL. We have a Super Bowl capable QB, and people want to dump him for a top ten draft pick.
I just can't get over that stupidity.
1. although the manning's have good genes, past performance does not equal future performance - abnd although he's been remarkably durable, eli has also taken quite a beating over his career
2. trent dilfer, brad johnson, joe flacco, kurt warner and russell wilson were also super bowl capable QBs...eli is not some diamond in the rough/once in a liftetime QB.
i am not advocating just getting rid of Eli...I woldnt trade him for anything less than a number 1..
I am not saying go out and shop Eli at all costs...
People are starting to say i am stupid for even bringing it up to trade Eli...Like i said i dont want to get rid of Eli BUT it may be best with the holes on this team to trade Eli for draft picks and use the cap savings to rebuild this entire team...
is a whiner anytime someone discusses the horror of life without Eli. Which is why an innocuous hypothetical which could make for interesting draft related discussion garnered an eye-rolling "ugh" from you.
Accept that fact that he's almost 34. And has a ton of mileage on that body given his starting streak and the fact that he's been pounded 2 years in a row. Then maybe you can add more to discussions about his future as a Giant.
Actually, a part of me wishes that we do draft him with the shitshow of an OL and Skill receivers we have. He will struggle, and then the same people who cried to get rid of Eli will be the same ones crying to get rid of Mariotta.
Actually, a part of me wishes that we do draft him with the shitshow of an OL and Skill receivers we have. He will struggle, and then the same people who cried to get rid of Eli will be the same ones crying to get rid of Mariotta.
Actually, a part of me wishes that we do draft him with the shitshow of an OL and Skill receivers we have. He will struggle, and then the same people who cried to get rid of Eli will be the same ones crying to get rid of Mariotta.
Whose crying to get rid of Eli?
Seriously? A good chunk of posters. I am not saying its you. But the same people who bitched about him last year, the same ones who came out of the woodwork Sunday, and the ones clamoring for it on this thread.
Ill say this simply. If Aaron Rodgers were QBing this team, we would probably be about .500 right now. You cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit. And I dont care how much cap room getting rid of Eli gives us. Reese would still be in charge of bringing shitty ass players in.
is a whiner anytime someone discusses the horror of life without Eli. Which is why an innocuous hypothetical which could make for interesting draft related discussion garnered an eye-rolling "ugh" from you.
Accept that fact that he's almost 34. And has a ton of mileage on that body given his starting streak and the fact that he's been pounded 2 years in a row. Then maybe you can add more to discussions about his future as a Giant.
Actually, what I am is realistic in the sense that barring injury, Eli is going to be our QB for the next five years. I don't deal in hypothetical "would you trade Eli for Luck" or "would you trade Eli for a top ten pick", none of which have any chance whatsoever of happening.
So carry on with what you think passes for footabll "insight". But thanks for the compliment.
While I wouldn't touch Winston. I agree with the overall premise. Some here would flip, but I wouldn't if the Giants extend Eli and spend a first on a QB. I was a big fan of Rodgers that year. I don't see a QB of his caliber in this draft. Mariotta maybe, but I think he is going to go higher than he should because he is the only one.
I don't really think BBI is crying out against Eli, for the most part.
There's a few people who could use a giant serving of shut the fuck up, as they endlessly ramble about Eli's laziness or how he's in the bottom third of the league's QBs, yes, but most of this place still is "on his side," so to speak. Some may recognize it may be time to move on, but it's largely not because of him, but because of the team's special brand of suck.
I imagine (because I'm not going to check for myself) most other Giant fan avenues are very different stories, though..
maybe. Hopefully. The point is you plan beyond him. If you think an Aaron Rodgers or even close to one is on the board, you don't pass on him merely because "barring injury", you expect Eli to be starting until 2020. That's asking for another decade of Kent Grahams.
The Pats just used a high pick on Garoppolo. Do they hope and expect Brady to start for at least 3 more years? I'm sure. They also know how to run a football franchise.
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Hades: agreed Winston/Mari are probably not Rodgers. But 23 teams didn't think Rodgers was Rodgers back in 05. The Giants are and will be in a similar boat when they have to replace Eli because as long as he is QB they probably will not pick top 5. So they need to be smart about replacing him. It might take a couple tries (Nassib maybe stab 1). But better to do so while he's still playing.
I dread the post-Eli era and I hope to put if off as long as possible. I think Eli has easily 4 -5 top seasons left.
The odds of the Giants getting another QB as good as Eli are next to zero. I really believe that.
Funny thing is no one was saying this stuff this year and after one high int game everyone comes out of the woodwork. If Randle or Donnell holds on to the ball, or the Giants had any semblance of an o line to ram it home for the go ahead score those five picks mean nothing.
I know if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle and it is pointless to play if-if-if but to me interceptions are focused on way too much. How was the Giants record and scoring ability pre-five picks? Did the shit record look any better to you when Eli had single digit interceptions?
This guy can make any throw, plays better the bigger the game, will throw it in the face of a hurricane, never sells out a teammate, deals with NY in a Jeterian calm manner and is a fucking winner period.
Why is everyone so quick to bring on the post-Eli era. Cap number? To hell with that, it is the GM's job to build a squad. I refuse to believe that the Giants can not build a competitive roster while paying the price for a franchise QB. If Reese can not, then find a GM who can.
Finally, if the Giants draft a QB high and he pans out, the Giants will have to pay that guy (likely sans-superbowls) the market value. So to me the salary means nothing.
Do you people who would do that realize how hard it is to find a good NFL QB,let alone a franchise QB who has already proven he has what it takes to win a championship?
There would be teams lined up to give thier first round pick for Eli.
Some of you think the grass is greener on the other side when you could be heading right into the desert.
We will all look back on Eli's career as a great ride that most teams would die for.Hopefully that won't be for 5 or more years.Remember the peple who used to complain about how much we gave up to get him,we vdon't here from them anymore but maybe they are you.
maybe. Hopefully. The point is you plan beyond him. If you think an Aaron Rodgers or even close to one is on the board, you don't pass on him merely because "barring injury", you expect Eli to be starting until 2020. That's asking for another decade of Kent Grahams.
The Pats just used a high pick on Garoppolo. Do they hope and expect Brady to start for at least 3 more years? I'm sure. They also know how to run a football franchise.
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Hades: agreed Winston/Mari are probably not Rodgers. But 23 teams didn't think Rodgers was Rodgers back in 05. The Giants are and will be in a similar boat when they have to replace Eli because as long as he is QB they probably will not pick top 5. So they need to be smart about replacing him. It might take a couple tries (Nassib maybe stab 1). But better to do so while he's still playing.
Brett Favre was 35 going on 36 when Rodgers was drafted.
Tom Brady was 36 going on 37.
Eli is 33 going on 34.
The title of this thread was not "groom Eli's replacement", it was would you trade him for a top ten pick.
So which argument are you trying to make?
A large portion of BBI needs to come to grips with the fact that he's resigning with us for another four or five years. Likely this offseason. Gun to your head, who's the Giants QB in two years?
Now that that's out of the way... I'm not even thinking about the Giants without Eli right now because it's not in the near future. I'll wait another season or two, then see where we're at. People tend to cherry pick guys like Rodgers and Luck to make their points, as if these guys are common. Not every guy taken to groom is going to be Rodgers, or even Russell Wilson. There are a lot more Kirk Cousins, Ryan Mallets, and AJ Feeleys than there are those guys.
Secondly, just getting a top ten pick doesn't guarantee you squat. For every Andrew Luck there are a ton more Bob Griffins, Ryan Leafs, Mark Sanchezs, etc...
Consistency is king in the NFL.
As blood thirsty as the NY Media and National Media is, do you find it peculiar that none of them are really calling for Eli's head, or blaming him for the teams woes?
In fact, when looking at other team's message boards, I've seen more than a few posts that reference NYG staying the course with Eli, as a model of consistency for what their franchise should do.
Ironically, there is very little talk of the Giants getting rid of Eli Manning, outside of Giants fans.
but should he at least have to win one title before he is lofted into the top tier of QB's. Or as I have read on this site mentioned as a future hall of famer.
Right about this franchise going forward. This post and so many others that overreact to the present is why we are called fanatics. Build an offensive line and then let s see if Giants should get rid of a franchise quarterback with 5 to 6 years of good play left.
a first round pick for an average qb in his mid 30s?
Of course you take it. There is nothing this offense demands that Nassim can't do. With 2 first round picks and the bulk of Eli's salary off the books it wouldn't be hard to turn things around
agreed, but it's one possible path and not an impossibility (Rams were mentioned). Grab a vet or start Nassib if they think he can play, then groom a Winston if they think he's got the goods. It's probably not the route I would take, but it's not insane to consider it. You seem to think it is. Maybe I'm mis-reading.
Gun to my head? Yes, Manning. And I wouldn't have a problem with that (despite his at times maddening play). I'm saying that at this point - with him well over 30 - I would hope the Giants are actively considering life beyond him. Because that's what good teams do. If they think someone potentially better is on the board, they should jump on it.
Did you think the selection of AR was a good idea at the time? Not in hindsight knowing how good he is, I mean at the time. Favre was still playing really solid football. 2 years later he was a Tynes kick away from another SB appearance.
a 2015 1st and 3rd, and 2016 1st and 5th....and he's all broken in.....he doesn't make bad throws or make poor decisions.....he's pro ready.....running and sliding, you have to work on....oh, an occasional fumble here and there, too....
Here is how I am thinking of it...
You have some very valid points my friend!
Either,
A) You believe the front office can successfully rebuild the team around Eli within a window where we can still be a contender with him under center
or..
B) You believe it will take longer than just a year or two to completely turn it around and build a sustainable winner again and by the time that happens, Eli will either no longer be playing or just will not be good enough.
Remember, he is going to be 34 years old just after this season ends and will be nearing 35 at the start of the next one. Unless you believe Eli is still going to be a championship caliber QB at age 36 or 37 (and I don't), it is hard to envision a scenario where this team can make another run.
Which is why I'd put myself in the camp of "B" if I had to choose.
This does not mean I want Eli out the door or want to dump him. I just have a hard time believing this team will be able to fix all of its issues in time to be a Championship caliber team once more with Eli still able to lead us.
Right now, I DO think Eli is still good enough to win with. I'm just not sure how much longer he will be and so, I think it would be a better franchise move to gain premium picks to expedite the rebuild process.
That's just how I look at it. I'm not saying it's right.
RE: Yes, but it seems that Eli is well above criticism around here
He's certainly not our biggest problem, but it'd be nice to see some fans put accountability on him for a change.
Accountability? He has had plenty of it from all fans alike. Personally, I think he was 100% responsible for all 5 picks and the single biggest reason we lost on Sunday. But, that doesn't mean I want to cut, trade, or bench him.
The 'AR scenario' happened once perhaps to that degree
but smart teams are constantly trying to do something similar. The Pats have a lot of holes on their team where they could use young talent. Was it crazy, in your view, to use a 2nd rounder on a QB? After all, Brady is an elite QB who likely has a few years left. Do you really think "well Eli is 3 1/2 years younger" is justification for eschewing a similar strategy?
If the Giants think Winston in the 1st or Cook in the 2nd is good value, are they crazy to take them merely because "Eli's the QB for the next 5 years. Not worth it"? Recipe for another Dave Brown era.
You laugh at drafting Winston. If it's because of character concerns, fine. I'm with you, it's worrisome. But if it's just because "eh we have Eli", it's a bad way to run a franchise.
but smart teams are constantly trying to do something similar. The Pats have a lot of holes on their team where they could use young talent. Was it crazy, in your view, to use a 2nd rounder on a QB? After all, Brady is an elite QB who likely has a few years left. Do you really think "well Eli is 3 1/2 years younger" is justification for eschewing a similar strategy?
If the Giants think Winston in the 1st or Cook in the 2nd is good value, are they crazy to take them merely because "Eli's the QB for the next 5 years. Not worth it"? Recipe for another Dave Brown era.
You laugh at drafting Winston. If it's because of character concerns, fine. I'm with you, it's worrisome. But if it's just because "eh we have Eli", it's a bad way to run a franchise.
Can I ask you a question in response to your question? Where's Ryan Mallett these days? How about Matt Cassel? What makes you think Garapolo is going to be any different?
And really, for as good as they are, the Patriots are historically bad drafters under Belichick and company.
without a QB eating such a huge portion of the cap, particularly when it's a guy who is overpaid in the first place.
Are you saying Eli is overpaid and should be gone?
I am not convinced this is a complete rebuild either. Some of our weaknesses have been addressed, but injuries altered the plan. For example, we added a ton of talent and depth at CB, only to have injuries force us to play our #5, #6 and beyond CBs in significant time and downs. Another example is the OL. We drafted Pugh last year and he had a solid rookie year. If the theory is correct that his arm injury is holding him back this year, then we still have a pretty good RT. Beatty has had a bounce back year to the point where he is solid, even if not spectacular. Then we drafted Richburg this year. For the most part, he has had a pretty good rookie year and should be at his natural OC position by next year the latest. That could already lead to an improved OL next year.
I think with another wise draft and key veterans on the OL and some combination of WR, RB, (both for depth), DE, LB, and S this is still a team that can contend. Yes, that is a long list, but not an impossible one to fill through both avenues.
without a QB eating such a huge portion of the cap, particularly when it's a guy who is overpaid in the first place.
Have any examples of this theory?
Sure - Seattle(Wilson is making $817K), San Francisco (Kaepernick is making $3.7 mil), Indianapolis (Luck is making $2.4mil), Philadelphia(Foles is making $770K).
you can also rebuild with compotent draft choice. If Reese hit grand slams with some of the picks like Sherman, Wagner, Bowman, among other 3rd-7th round draft choice..... you can rebuild with a 20 million dollar QB.
The problem is if we get rid of Eli, we still have Reese which is the bigger problem.
Which makes my point. It's very difficult to find a quality starting QB in the NFL. So you likely need to take multiple stabs. And it's better to do so while you're not desperate (the Packers in 05, the Pats last year, the Giants now), instead of when you're cycling between Brown, Kanell, and Graham.
Winston is just the example du jour. Maybe the Giants FO think he'll bust. If so, you obviously pass. If not, it'd be a smart pick. But the idea is, you never have to force it like you're the Titans with Jake Locker.
I don't disagree with that. But, I also don't think he should be gone and I do think he is still a QB you can build another run around. He has a few years of his prime left before we can reasonably expect a decline.
Which makes my point. It's very difficult to find a quality starting QB in the NFL. So you likely need to take multiple stabs. And it's better to do so while you're not desperate (the Packers in 05, the Pats last year, the Giants now), instead of when you're cycling between Brown, Kanell, and Graham.
Winston is just the example du jour. Maybe the Giants FO think he'll bust. If so, you obviously pass. If not, it'd be a smart pick. But the idea is, you never have to force it like you're the Titans with Jake Locker.
Okay, but now we're a long ways away from trading Eli for a first round pick... Now we're talking looking replacements and extending him.
Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck are still on their rookie contracts. And of the three, I'd only take Luck. You honestly will say you'll take Wilson and CK (misspelled his name once and thats enough) over Eli? And if so do you think they'd do half as well learning a new offense in one season? Name a reciever CK or RW has made better or gotten a contract. Eli did it with Boss, Plaxico, Smith, The Black Unicorn, Mario Manningham and the list goes on.....
oh give me a fucking break on that "made receivers better" horseshit
You cannot simultaneously claim that one and then blame all of his recent struggles on lousy receivers. He sure as hell isn't making anyone better these days. Give the WRs some credit, because guys like Smith, Cruz, Nicks, Plax, Manningham and Bennett were pretty damned good.
he's worth more than 1 and you will need more than that.
I'd talk to a team like the Jets who a franchise QB could make them instantly competitive. An OL who can protect him a few weapons and lots of cap room. and he wouldn't have to uproot his family.
no one is taking an inconsistent aging QB with a big contract who will need a new one for a #1 pick.. They would simply draft a QB who will come much cheaper.
he's worth more than 1 and you will need more than that.
I'd talk to a team like the Jets who a franchise QB could make them instantly competitive. An OL who can protect him a few weapons and lots of cap room. and he wouldn't have to uproot his family.
Yeah, I'm sure if the Giants were going to trade Eli, they'd trade him to the fucking Jets.
This place..
San Fran made the NFC Championship the year before
I can see the Giants letting his contract run out and him moving in via FA. All things remaining the same, I'd prefer he remain our QB through the end of his career.
But very little is likely to remain the same after this season.
Eli turns shit WR's into gold, but when things aren't going well, the blame magically shifts towards everybody else but the QB.
Thats false. Even as Eli's adament supporter there was no doubt that guys like Burress, Toomer, Smith, Cruz, Nicks, Manningham played a huge role in our victories. Especially in 2011 with the YAC capabilities.
But the last two years our skilled positions have been some of the worse in the NFL. OBJ gives us semblance of hope. Hopefully Cruz can get back to 2012. But guys like RR, Parker, Jerrigan arent future players.
Thats why taking Cooper in the first round has to be a possibility.
But there are people who say, as Britt has often in the past and that guy just did in this thread, that the Giants' receivers weren't that great and Eli made them look a lot better than they actually were.
But there are people who say, as Britt has often in the past and that guy just did in this thread, that the Giants' receivers weren't that great and Eli made them look a lot better than they actually were.
Well I think its a two way street. Look at guys like Brady, Rodgers, Peyton.... they certainly made their WRs into stars and excellent players - but those players were talented as well and thats why they make it look so easy.
I mean you ever see Nelson, Demaryius and Gronk so wide open and be like "how the fuck is he is so open". Seeing Eli/Cruz/Nicks on the same page in 2011, especially in the playoffs was the best offensive firepower Ive seen in my lifetime as a Giants fan. I want to see it again, and soon.
Buffalo,Tennessee and probably a few other teams would give up far more than a single #1 pick to get a franchise QB that has won 2 SBs with 5 years left. If you told me I could get Mariota plus another #1, I might think about it, but would probably demand more.
Buffalo,Tennessee and probably a few other teams would give up far more than a single #1 pick to get a franchise QB that has won 2 SBs with 5 years left. If you told me I could get Mariota plus another #1, I might think about it, but would probably demand more.
Buffalo,Tennessee and probably a few other teams would give up far more than a single #1 pick to get a franchise QB that has won 2 SBs with 5 years left. If you told me I could get Mariota plus another #1, I might think about it, but would probably demand more.
Buffalo,Tennessee and probably a few other teams would give up far more than a single #1 pick to get a franchise QB that has won 2 SBs with 5 years left. If you told me I could get Mariota plus another #1, I might think about it, but would probably demand more.
starters ,Umm not even close .
I in no way shape or form want Jameis Winston .
The Guy is a piece of crap . I din;t think anyone
could top Cam Newtons act .Who will never win the
big one . IMO
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
And how much longer does Eli give us that relative to how long it will take to put another SB contending caliber roster around him?
Eli isn't in his 20's anymore, that's the problem. And he's not going to be around forever.
I love the guy as much as anyone and I'd love to see him win another one here before he finally hangs them up. I just think this roster has too many holes and it's going to take a couple years to fill them if we're lucky. By then, is Eli going to still have it? Odds aren't good.
Exactly! This team is far removed from Eli's glory days. While not impossible. Another super bowl run is highly unlikely. I wouldn't trade him for A first pick alone. Have to throw in at least a third and maybe a pick the following season as well.
Andrew Luck is not in this draft and even if he was, it is easy to say that now, because we know what Andrew Luck has done in this league. If you dump Eli your talking about using the the aquired pick for a QB. There is no guarantee's in the draft especially at QB. For every Andrew Luck there is a 20 QB's you never heard of or guys that didn't do much of anything in the NFL. Its easy to say dump Eli, but you damn well better have a good back up plan, because if you get a bust at QB, your going to suck for awhile.
Others are say we are a ways away from competing again. I don't' see it. Often you see new coaches come in and turn franchises around or teams come out of nowhere. With the right moves I don't' see any reason we couldn't be a solid team next year.
I don't understand why everyone thinks we are that far off?
Outside of Philly and Detroit week one, we have been in every game we lost and had a chance to win most. We did that despite a ton of injuries and a lot of bad play. There is no reason we couldn't turn it around with relative health and some decent pick ups via the draft/FA.
The Pat's for example and drafting young QB's. Frankly I think they are a horrible example to bring up. They keep trading away all their picks and drafting Brady's replacement when they can still win with him. If they spent some of those picks on players instead of trying to get cute all the time I think they would of won another SB by now.
unless you have one as good on the team or you are certain of getting one the same year you trade him. As long as you have Eli, you have a shot at the Lombardi provided you surround him with acceptable (not great, just acceptable) talent.
If anyone thinks that losing Eli and adding one pick for the crap shoot of the draft improves this team they are nuts. That would be a complete desperation move towards a longer downward spiral. The fastest way to improve this team is to build a strong OL and then give Eli another weapon or two.
I think some fans forget just how long it often can take to replace a franchise QB.
If Houston was offered enough they'd have to trade JJ Watt, LT in his prime would have been traded if someone was willing to overpay. I am NOT saying those guys were ever going to be on or will ever be in the market BUT if you are approached you have to listen. Anyway a number 1 pick for your franchise QB with 5 productive years left is way too low
We need a ton of help, no way I am trading Eli for just a first round pick, especially if we are already drafting in the top 10.
Think about it, you are trading Eli for only a 1st, then you have to draft is replacement with that first.
No thanks...
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Any team finishing with a top 10 pick almost certainly needs to rebuild or is in the process of doing so. You don't dump a premium draft pick for an aging vet QB because teams with picks that high aren't going to be one player away.
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
^This. No Andrew Luck in this draft, so no. For two #1s though, yes. And that comes from someone who wouldn't extend Eli, just pay him the $17M he's owed next season. Last Sunday notwithstanding, Eli has played well this year. He has limited weapons, no running game, and an OL that can't pass or run block. Reese, not Eli, is the problem.
But it's all moot, because nobody would give us a #1 for Eli.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Useless to the franchise?
In no way was this a troll post...
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and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
I would trade Eli, I'd trade anyone, but it really needs to be more than a 1st.
Percy Harvin was traded for a 1st and 7th and a 3rd the next year.
Trent Richardson was traded for a 1st round pick.
Heck, Deion Banch was traded for a 1st round pick and Seattle then needed to sign him to a contract extension.
I think even heading into his final year, Eli should net more than a 1st round pick.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
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In comment 11986595 UConn4523 said:
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and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
Your right there is not guarantee it will work...
Here is my thinking on why you do it though...
You lose Eli's salary and gain a lot of cap room to work on the other holes on this team, which there are a lot of
Mariota can be the heir apparent and if it pans out would realy kick start the rebuild...I think he is a perfect fit for this system..
The other draft pick would be BPA, adds more talent to this team...
the main thing that draws me to this scenario is the added cap room you gain to fill out this roster..
kidding
St. Louis may be interested.
They already have a lot of talent on that team...they have a veteran HC who probably is not looking to draft another QB high...the have a young RB who looks like he can be a stud..
The Rams are probably a good Vet Qb away from contending...
Trading Eli is the quickest way for us to rebuild. Say you got a 1st and a 2nd round pick for him (which wouldn't be crazy). Two extra high draft picks plus $20 million in cap space could go a LONG LONG way in helping this team rebuild.
Like Greg referred to, the only real reason to keep him is if you think we are going to contend in the next 2-3 years. The irony is that Eli's cap hit is one of the biggest barriers to rebuilding the team.
If you take away the emotional factor and look at this objectively it's a very tough call to make.....and not nearly as simply as some of the glib responses here imply.
But in this make-believe, fairy tale scenario where a team offers us a #1 pick? If it were a top 10 pick, yes I'd take it.
11 or 12... I'd consider it.
Anything later than that. No.
The Cardinals franchise QB just tore his ACL for the second time, after returning from shoulder surgery.
I think they're having buyers remorse and there's a good chance Palmer is IR'd next year.
Their D, and offense other than QB are legit, who knows maybe Stanton is their guy, but I don't think Palmer's contract would stop them. I don't think they'll draft a rookie QB, but they'd possibly trade for a veteran.
but, they were just examples. The key is a veteran team, solid offense, needs a QB.
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He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Useless to the franchise?
Yes, useless, as in he's not actually helping them accomplish anything right now (not that it's primarily his fault; the team has pretty much done wrong by him, as far as I'm concerned, with what they've surrounded him with).
They suck with him and very likely will for the next couple seasons, as they hopefully rebuild (they don't have the high end talent to do a quick one, like you'll see with some other teams and their insta-turns). By the time they might actually be good again, he's going to likely be fizzling out and will have, from his perspective, had a significant portion of his career wasted and of his "legacy" destroyed.
They'll suck without him too, but at least, in theory, they'll have the cap space and extra draft pick(s) to acquire talent to more easily/better help them not suck down the line. And he'll at least have had a better shot at making the playoffs and having a few more good seasons, before he's done, if he lands in the right place.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
Nassib's a track star compared to Eli.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
Not necessarily at all.
Trading Eli for a 1? Or thinking we wouldn't even get a 1 for him?
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
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No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
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You'd essentially be trading Eli for Mariota or Winston, which I wouldn't do.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
OK, Eli for Mariota and cap space. Still wouldn't do it...
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to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
They certainly don't give me that Andrew Luck feel where I'm going to give up my 2x Super Bowl MVP for them. Especially in Winston's case with all those Chinese Buffets near the stadium with the carb legs.
And how much longer does Eli give us that relative to how long it will take to put another SB contending caliber roster around him?
Eli isn't in his 20's anymore, that's the problem. And he's not going to be around forever.
I love the guy as much as anyone and I'd love to see him win another one here before he finally hangs them up. I just think this roster has too many holes and it's going to take a couple years to fill them if we're lucky. By then, is Eli going to still have it? Odds aren't good.
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In comment 11986597 Hades07 said:
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No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
Yes fully understanding. Trading Manning for an unproven rookie QB. The other pick has nothing to do with it because you have it with or without Manning. It would be a dumb trade and gain you nothing. If it was the 1st overall and there was a player like Luck, I'd consider it, but there isn't one in this draft.
Ok then you dont do it..Like i said before it comes down to what you think of Mariota...
This trade also gets you a ton of Cap space to fill out the holes on this roster so if you think Mariota is good then the trade becomes a lot more appealing..if you dont then really no reason to do the trade...
Trading Eli for a 1? Or thinking we wouldn't even get a 1 for him?
Jeff Fisher might cut off his arm to get Eli let alone a 1st round pick.
This is a moot point, because nobody is offering a #1 for him. But, if someone did, I think you have to do it to try to reload quicker. I would NOT trade him for anything less than a #1.
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In comment 11986684 TomTom said:
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to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
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They certainly don't give me that Andrew Luck feel where I'm going to give up my 2x Super Bowl MVP for them. Especially in Winston's case with all those Chinese Buffets near the stadium with the carb legs.
I wouldnt touch Winston...If Mariota is gone i do not touch this trade...
I think Mariota is going to be very good in this league thats why i would do this move...
This is a moot point, because nobody is offering a #1 for him. But, if someone did, I think you have to do it to try to reload quicker. I would NOT trade him for anything less than a #1.
I am not advocating getting rid of Eli either...i am just putting a scenario out there to see what people think...
What if you spend one of those picks on a OT? What if you spend one on DE. Or both on the OL? Or a WR + OL/LB ?
You don't HAVE to take Mariota or Winston. You can try to strengthen other areas and give Nassib a shot.
Trading Eli for a 1? Or thinking we wouldn't even get a 1 for him?
What if you spend one of those picks on a OT? What if you spend one on DE. Or both on the OL? Or a WR + OL/LB ?
You don't HAVE to take Mariota or Winston. You can try to strengthen other areas and give Nassib a shot.
Your right Arc you dont have to draft either guy
It could be to just give Nassib a shot...
Our biggest shortcomings involve not restocking our Oline with any sense of urgency--by undervaluing the position, thinking we can fill in adequately with teams' cast offs and later round picks, perhaps grabbing a 1st or 2nd rounder here and there. Except QB is one position and Oline is 5 plus their backups and we need a bunch of good players, yet only have a couple.
The other shortcoming is that Fewell doesn't appear to be any good.
So look away from Eli (his 5 INTS the other day worry you? Have you forgotten Peyton's 6 INT day?) and focus on supporting cast.
What if you spend one of those picks on a OT? What if you spend one on DE. Or both on the OL? Or a WR + OL/LB ?
You don't HAVE to take Mariota or Winston. You can try to strengthen other areas and give Nassib a shot.
So next year is a throw-away year?
Our biggest shortcomings involve not restocking our Oline with any sense of urgency--by undervaluing the position, thinking we can fill in adequately with teams' cast offs and later round picks, perhaps grabbing a 1st or 2nd rounder here and there. Except QB is one position and Oline is 5 plus their backups and we need a bunch of good players, yet only have a couple.
The other shortcoming is that Fewell doesn't appear to be any good.
So look away from Eli (his 5 INTS the other day worry you? Have you forgotten Peyton's 6 INT day?) and focus on supporting cast.
Right. Every year teams go from worst to first. It can be done with the Giants team because we have Eli, we found the hardest thing to find in the NFL a franchise QB and trading it away would do no good for the Giants.
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And why do you have to take Mariota or Winston to do this?
What if you spend one of those picks on a OT? What if you spend one on DE. Or both on the OL? Or a WR + OL/LB ?
You don't HAVE to take Mariota or Winston. You can try to strengthen other areas and give Nassib a shot.
So next year is a throw-away year?
I'd call it a rebuilding year rather than just label it that like this year when it clearly isn't.
This team isn't a player or two away. We need a lot of help and we need to do it the right way. Trying to plug holes haphazardly isn't going to get the job done.
If you can spend 2 premium 1st rd picks to bring in 2 more top shelf talents it could help the future of this football team big time just like OBJ is going to.
We're not going to contend next year anyway even if we try to "go for it". We're just not close enough. It'll just be a further mismanagement of resources.
Apparently Britt is annoyed by even the thought of life after Eli, let alone by discussing it.
We all know you'd get on your knees for him, but he's not going to be around forever and a smart team is already thinking ahead. Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers (and not with a top 5 pick) when their legendary, SB winning QB was 35. Eli will be 34 in less than 2 months.
Do the math. Or keep whining. Whichever.
This team, even before the injuries, was highly populated with a bunch of JAGs, with only a select few top tier or young high-potential locked in pieces.
Next year is probably going to be another throw away year, regardless of whether Eli is on the team or not.
Eli isn't in his 20's anymore, that's the problem. And he's not going to be around forever.
Some of you need to stop living in the past. That doesn't mean dump Eli. It means thinking beyond 2014 or 2015.
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Apparently Britt is annoyed by even the thought of life after Eli, let alone by discussing it.
We all know you'd get on your knees for him, but he's not going to be around forever and a smart team is already thinking ahead. Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers (and not with a top 5 pick) when their legendary, SB winning QB was 35. Eli will be 34 in less than 2 months.
Do the math. Or keep whining. Whichever.
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Apparently Britt is annoyed by even the thought of life after Eli, let alone by discussing it.
We all know you'd get on your knees for him, but he's not going to be around forever and a smart team is already thinking ahead. Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers (and not with a top 5 pick) when their legendary, SB winning QB was 35. Eli will be 34 in less than 2 months.
Do the math. Or keep whining. Whichever.
Wow, nice response. Not going to stoop to your level. Have a good one.
Build the team around another Eli run kind of like what Dallas has done rebuilding the line with a great running game.
There aren't as many good QB's in this league as some of you think.
Attempt to trade him trade him to one and he would retire,
or threaten to.
I just can't get over that stupidity.
What if you spend one of those picks on a OT? What if you spend one on DE. Or both on the OL? Or a WR + OL/LB ?
You don't HAVE to take Mariota or Winston. You can try to strengthen other areas and give Nassib a shot.
you're smarter than this Arc. Eli is 33 and can clearly still play. QB is the toughest position to find.
Either,
A) You believe the front office can successfully rebuild the team around Eli within a window where we can still be a contender with him under center
or..
B) You believe it will take longer than just a year or two to completely turn it around and build a sustainable winner again and by the time that happens, Eli will either no longer be playing or just will not be good enough.
Remember, he is going to be 34 years old just after this season ends and will be nearing 35 at the start of the next one. Unless you believe Eli is still going to be a championship caliber QB at age 36 or 37 (and I don't), it is hard to envision a scenario where this team can make another run.
Which is why I'd put myself in the camp of "B" if I had to choose.
This does not mean I want Eli out the door or want to dump him. I just have a hard time believing this team will be able to fix all of its issues in time to be a Championship caliber team once more with Eli still able to lead us.
Right now, I DO think Eli is still good enough to win with. I'm just not sure how much longer he will be and so, I think it would be a better franchise move to gain premium picks to expedite the rebuild process.
That's just how I look at it. I'm not saying it's right.
Build the team around another Eli run kind of like what Dallas has done rebuilding the line with a great running game.
There aren't as many good QB's in this league as some of you think.
Most people in this thread aren't looking to dump him or killing him for one bad game. Frankly, those backing trading him (to a competitive team/team closer to competing), if anything, are probably on the side of the best thing anyone could wish/want for him, as a player, at this point.
The Giants, at a team, are in a really terrible spot right now and getting them to a better spot is probably far enough away that, even if he's still got, say, four good ones, left in him, there's a good chance he's not a real part of that. This organization and he really aren't a great pairing anymore, for either side.
My comment was meant for those who can't fathom thinking beyond Manning as the Giants' QB (like our buddy in VA). It's coming, maybe soon. Rodgers, recall, was a late first round pick. Not touted at the time as a "sure thing". Favre was coming off a 30 TD, 4k, 10-6 season. There's a reason the Packers are the 2nd best run franchise in the NFL. They plan beyond the current year.
Winston isn't mature enough to start right away, but if the Giants thought he was BPA at 12-15, I wouldn't mind the selection to groom. Not saying that's definitely the way to go, but not because "they have Eli".
I just can't get over that stupidity.
1. although the manning's have good genes, past performance does not equal future performance - abnd although he's been remarkably durable, eli has also taken quite a beating over his career
2. trent dilfer, brad johnson, joe flacco, kurt warner and russell wilson were also super bowl capable QBs...eli is not some diamond in the rough/once in a liftetime QB.
I am not saying go out and shop Eli at all costs...
People are starting to say i am stupid for even bringing it up to trade Eli...Like i said i dont want to get rid of Eli BUT it may be best with the holes on this team to trade Eli for draft picks and use the cap savings to rebuild this entire team...
You're not allowed to rent here anymore!
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You're not allowed to rent here anymore!
Don't hurt yourself, Chris. Or I'll go to Big Choice insead.
Accept that fact that he's almost 34. And has a ton of mileage on that body given his starting streak and the fact that he's been pounded 2 years in a row. Then maybe you can add more to discussions about his future as a Giant.
Actually, a part of me wishes that we do draft him with the shitshow of an OL and Skill receivers we have. He will struggle, and then the same people who cried to get rid of Eli will be the same ones crying to get rid of Mariotta.
Actually, a part of me wishes that we do draft him with the shitshow of an OL and Skill receivers we have. He will struggle, and then the same people who cried to get rid of Eli will be the same ones crying to get rid of Mariotta.
Whose crying to get rid of Eli?
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because he is vastly overrated.
Actually, a part of me wishes that we do draft him with the shitshow of an OL and Skill receivers we have. He will struggle, and then the same people who cried to get rid of Eli will be the same ones crying to get rid of Mariotta.
Whose crying to get rid of Eli?
Seriously? A good chunk of posters. I am not saying its you. But the same people who bitched about him last year, the same ones who came out of the woodwork Sunday, and the ones clamoring for it on this thread.
Ill say this simply. If Aaron Rodgers were QBing this team, we would probably be about .500 right now. You cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit. And I dont care how much cap room getting rid of Eli gives us. Reese would still be in charge of bringing shitty ass players in.
Accept that fact that he's almost 34. And has a ton of mileage on that body given his starting streak and the fact that he's been pounded 2 years in a row. Then maybe you can add more to discussions about his future as a Giant.
Actually, what I am is realistic in the sense that barring injury, Eli is going to be our QB for the next five years. I don't deal in hypothetical "would you trade Eli for Luck" or "would you trade Eli for a top ten pick", none of which have any chance whatsoever of happening.
So carry on with what you think passes for footabll "insight". But thanks for the compliment.
I imagine (because I'm not going to check for myself) most other Giant fan avenues are very different stories, though..
You never know. We traded Dallas a 1st round pick for Craig Morton that they turned into Randy White.
The Pats just used a high pick on Garoppolo. Do they hope and expect Brady to start for at least 3 more years? I'm sure. They also know how to run a football franchise.
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Hades: agreed Winston/Mari are probably not Rodgers. But 23 teams didn't think Rodgers was Rodgers back in 05. The Giants are and will be in a similar boat when they have to replace Eli because as long as he is QB they probably will not pick top 5. So they need to be smart about replacing him. It might take a couple tries (Nassib maybe stab 1). But better to do so while he's still playing.
The odds of the Giants getting another QB as good as Eli are next to zero. I really believe that.
Funny thing is no one was saying this stuff this year and after one high int game everyone comes out of the woodwork. If Randle or Donnell holds on to the ball, or the Giants had any semblance of an o line to ram it home for the go ahead score those five picks mean nothing.
I know if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle and it is pointless to play if-if-if but to me interceptions are focused on way too much. How was the Giants record and scoring ability pre-five picks? Did the shit record look any better to you when Eli had single digit interceptions?
This guy can make any throw, plays better the bigger the game, will throw it in the face of a hurricane, never sells out a teammate, deals with NY in a Jeterian calm manner and is a fucking winner period.
Why is everyone so quick to bring on the post-Eli era. Cap number? To hell with that, it is the GM's job to build a squad. I refuse to believe that the Giants can not build a competitive roster while paying the price for a franchise QB. If Reese can not, then find a GM who can.
Finally, if the Giants draft a QB high and he pans out, the Giants will have to pay that guy (likely sans-superbowls) the market value. So to me the salary means nothing.
I would not trade a one for Eli.
Sounds like a brilliant plan.
There would be teams lined up to give thier first round pick for Eli.
Some of you think the grass is greener on the other side when you could be heading right into the desert.
We will all look back on Eli's career as a great ride that most teams would die for.Hopefully that won't be for 5 or more years.Remember the peple who used to complain about how much we gave up to get him,we vdon't here from them anymore but maybe they are you.
The Pats just used a high pick on Garoppolo. Do they hope and expect Brady to start for at least 3 more years? I'm sure. They also know how to run a football franchise.
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Hades: agreed Winston/Mari are probably not Rodgers. But 23 teams didn't think Rodgers was Rodgers back in 05. The Giants are and will be in a similar boat when they have to replace Eli because as long as he is QB they probably will not pick top 5. So they need to be smart about replacing him. It might take a couple tries (Nassib maybe stab 1). But better to do so while he's still playing.
Brett Favre was 35 going on 36 when Rodgers was drafted.
Tom Brady was 36 going on 37.
Eli is 33 going on 34.
The title of this thread was not "groom Eli's replacement", it was would you trade him for a top ten pick.
So which argument are you trying to make?
A large portion of BBI needs to come to grips with the fact that he's resigning with us for another four or five years. Likely this offseason. Gun to your head, who's the Giants QB in two years?
Now that that's out of the way... I'm not even thinking about the Giants without Eli right now because it's not in the near future. I'll wait another season or two, then see where we're at. People tend to cherry pick guys like Rodgers and Luck to make their points, as if these guys are common. Not every guy taken to groom is going to be Rodgers, or even Russell Wilson. There are a lot more Kirk Cousins, Ryan Mallets, and AJ Feeleys than there are those guys.
Secondly, just getting a top ten pick doesn't guarantee you squat. For every Andrew Luck there are a ton more Bob Griffins, Ryan Leafs, Mark Sanchezs, etc...
Consistency is king in the NFL.
As blood thirsty as the NY Media and National Media is, do you find it peculiar that none of them are really calling for Eli's head, or blaming him for the teams woes?
In fact, when looking at other team's message boards, I've seen more than a few posts that reference NYG staying the course with Eli, as a model of consistency for what their franchise should do.
Ironically, there is very little talk of the Giants getting rid of Eli Manning, outside of Giants fans.
Why is that?
I think 3 is far more likely. If that.
Not many QB who have been drafted have been the real deal in the past several seasons Luck .... who else has been drafted that is better than Eli.
Win something first. Eli has, twice.
Gun to my head? Yes, Manning. And I wouldn't have a problem with that (despite his at times maddening play). I'm saying that at this point - with him well over 30 - I would hope the Giants are actively considering life beyond him. Because that's what good teams do. If they think someone potentially better is on the board, they should jump on it.
Did you think the selection of AR was a good idea at the time? Not in hindsight knowing how good he is, I mean at the time. Favre was still playing really solid football. 2 years later he was a Tynes kick away from another SB appearance.
I'd be pretty surprised if we draft Eli's replacement this year, or even next, though.
Eli will be the QB for the foreseeable future. You're just going to have to deal with that. I'm sorry that it will be tough for some.
These hypothetical arguments are just a waste of time.
Untrue. I've been a Giants fan since 84, 20 years before Eli came along.
I also remember Phil Simms being cut too early, and he was 38!
Also, it was "pick", not "picks". One first round "pick".
You move on.
These hypothetical arguments are just a waste of time.
#2: Grabbing a vet QB (Or starting Nassib)
#3: Drafting Winston
Holy shit. I may have a stroke.
Have any examples of this theory?
You have some very valid points my friend!
Either,
A) You believe the front office can successfully rebuild the team around Eli within a window where we can still be a contender with him under center
or..
B) You believe it will take longer than just a year or two to completely turn it around and build a sustainable winner again and by the time that happens, Eli will either no longer be playing or just will not be good enough.
Remember, he is going to be 34 years old just after this season ends and will be nearing 35 at the start of the next one. Unless you believe Eli is still going to be a championship caliber QB at age 36 or 37 (and I don't), it is hard to envision a scenario where this team can make another run.
Which is why I'd put myself in the camp of "B" if I had to choose.
This does not mean I want Eli out the door or want to dump him. I just have a hard time believing this team will be able to fix all of its issues in time to be a Championship caliber team once more with Eli still able to lead us.
Right now, I DO think Eli is still good enough to win with. I'm just not sure how much longer he will be and so, I think it would be a better franchise move to gain premium picks to expedite the rebuild process.
That's just how I look at it. I'm not saying it's right.
Accountability? He has had plenty of it from all fans alike. Personally, I think he was 100% responsible for all 5 picks and the single biggest reason we lost on Sunday. But, that doesn't mean I want to cut, trade, or bench him.
If the Giants think Winston in the 1st or Cook in the 2nd is good value, are they crazy to take them merely because "Eli's the QB for the next 5 years. Not worth it"? Recipe for another Dave Brown era.
You laugh at drafting Winston. If it's because of character concerns, fine. I'm with you, it's worrisome. But if it's just because "eh we have Eli", it's a bad way to run a franchise.
If the Giants think Winston in the 1st or Cook in the 2nd is good value, are they crazy to take them merely because "Eli's the QB for the next 5 years. Not worth it"? Recipe for another Dave Brown era.
You laugh at drafting Winston. If it's because of character concerns, fine. I'm with you, it's worrisome. But if it's just because "eh we have Eli", it's a bad way to run a franchise.
Can I ask you a question in response to your question? Where's Ryan Mallett these days? How about Matt Cassel? What makes you think Garapolo is going to be any different?
And really, for as good as they are, the Patriots are historically bad drafters under Belichick and company.
Are you saying Eli is overpaid and should be gone?
I am not convinced this is a complete rebuild either. Some of our weaknesses have been addressed, but injuries altered the plan. For example, we added a ton of talent and depth at CB, only to have injuries force us to play our #5, #6 and beyond CBs in significant time and downs. Another example is the OL. We drafted Pugh last year and he had a solid rookie year. If the theory is correct that his arm injury is holding him back this year, then we still have a pretty good RT. Beatty has had a bounce back year to the point where he is solid, even if not spectacular. Then we drafted Richburg this year. For the most part, he has had a pretty good rookie year and should be at his natural OC position by next year the latest. That could already lead to an improved OL next year.
I think with another wise draft and key veterans on the OL and some combination of WR, RB, (both for depth), DE, LB, and S this is still a team that can contend. Yes, that is a long list, but not an impossible one to fill through both avenues.
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without a QB eating such a huge portion of the cap, particularly when it's a guy who is overpaid in the first place.
Have any examples of this theory?
Sure - Seattle(Wilson is making $817K), San Francisco (Kaepernick is making $3.7 mil), Indianapolis (Luck is making $2.4mil), Philadelphia(Foles is making $770K).
Eli is making $20 mil.
The problem is if we get rid of Eli, we still have Reese which is the bigger problem.
Which makes my point. It's very difficult to find a quality starting QB in the NFL. So you likely need to take multiple stabs. And it's better to do so while you're not desperate (the Packers in 05, the Pats last year, the Giants now), instead of when you're cycling between Brown, Kanell, and Graham.
Winston is just the example du jour. Maybe the Giants FO think he'll bust. If so, you obviously pass. If not, it'd be a smart pick. But the idea is, you never have to force it like you're the Titans with Jake Locker.
Which makes my point. It's very difficult to find a quality starting QB in the NFL. So you likely need to take multiple stabs. And it's better to do so while you're not desperate (the Packers in 05, the Pats last year, the Giants now), instead of when you're cycling between Brown, Kanell, and Graham.
Winston is just the example du jour. Maybe the Giants FO think he'll bust. If so, you obviously pass. If not, it'd be a smart pick. But the idea is, you never have to force it like you're the Titans with Jake Locker.
Okay, but now we're a long ways away from trading Eli for a first round pick... Now we're talking looking replacements and extending him.
They weren't "rebuilding" like we are.
I'd talk to a team like the Jets who a franchise QB could make them instantly competitive. An OL who can protect him a few weapons and lots of cap room. and he wouldn't have to uproot his family.
I'd talk to a team like the Jets who a franchise QB could make them instantly competitive. An OL who can protect him a few weapons and lots of cap room. and he wouldn't have to uproot his family.
Yeah, I'm sure if the Giants were going to trade Eli, they'd trade him to the fucking Jets.
This place..
But very little is likely to remain the same after this season.
Thats false. Even as Eli's adament supporter there was no doubt that guys like Burress, Toomer, Smith, Cruz, Nicks, Manningham played a huge role in our victories. Especially in 2011 with the YAC capabilities.
But the last two years our skilled positions have been some of the worse in the NFL. OBJ gives us semblance of hope. Hopefully Cruz can get back to 2012. But guys like RR, Parker, Jerrigan arent future players.
Thats why taking Cooper in the first round has to be a possibility.
The point is that Eli takes up a massive amount of the Giants' cap, an amount that far exceeds his actual production.
Well I think its a two way street. Look at guys like Brady, Rodgers, Peyton.... they certainly made their WRs into stars and excellent players - but those players were talented as well and thats why they make it look so easy.
I mean you ever see Nelson, Demaryius and Gronk so wide open and be like "how the fuck is he is so open". Seeing Eli/Cruz/Nicks on the same page in 2011, especially in the playoffs was the best offensive firepower Ive seen in my lifetime as a Giants fan. I want to see it again, and soon.
can always replace a stiff like ELi, take the number 1 pick
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Buffalo,Tennessee and probably a few other teams would give up far more than a single #1 pick to get a franchise QB that has won 2 SBs with 5 years left. If you told me I could get Mariota plus another #1, I might think about it, but would probably demand more.
This I would consider.
Get your own fuckin' ideas?
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In comment 11987222 bob in tx said:
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Buffalo,Tennessee and probably a few other teams would give up far more than a single #1 pick to get a franchise QB that has won 2 SBs with 5 years left. If you told me I could get Mariota plus another #1, I might think about it, but would probably demand more.
This I would consider.
Get your own fuckin' ideas?
I in no way shape or form want Jameis Winston .
The Guy is a piece of crap . I din;t think anyone
could top Cam Newtons act .Who will never win the
big one . IMO
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to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
And how much longer does Eli give us that relative to how long it will take to put another SB contending caliber roster around him?
Eli isn't in his 20's anymore, that's the problem. And he's not going to be around forever.
I love the guy as much as anyone and I'd love to see him win another one here before he finally hangs them up. I just think this roster has too many holes and it's going to take a couple years to fill them if we're lucky. By then, is Eli going to still have it? Odds aren't good.
Exactly! This team is far removed from Eli's glory days. While not impossible. Another super bowl run is highly unlikely. I wouldn't trade him for A first pick alone. Have to throw in at least a third and maybe a pick the following season as well.
More like this post.
Andrew Luck is not in this draft and even if he was, it is easy to say that now, because we know what Andrew Luck has done in this league. If you dump Eli your talking about using the the aquired pick for a QB. There is no guarantee's in the draft especially at QB. For every Andrew Luck there is a 20 QB's you never heard of or guys that didn't do much of anything in the NFL. Its easy to say dump Eli, but you damn well better have a good back up plan, because if you get a bust at QB, your going to suck for awhile.
Others are say we are a ways away from competing again. I don't' see it. Often you see new coaches come in and turn franchises around or teams come out of nowhere. With the right moves I don't' see any reason we couldn't be a solid team next year.
I think some fans forget just how long it often can take to replace a franchise QB.
The Giants won't be truly good until they get a huge talent infusion. Draft choices are needed, not guys on the wrong side of the 33.
So three years later, that pick will be gone. Eli might also be gone, but he is a better player over that three years than a rookie.