For the simple fact that I believe the Giants aren't going to be in a position to contend again for 2-3 years, at which point Manning will be 35-36 years old.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
No one would ever offer it, though. That's the thing.
Any team finishing with a top 10 pick almost certainly needs to rebuild or is in the process of doing so. You don't dump a premium draft pick for an aging vet QB because teams with picks that high aren't going to be one player away.
Eli for one pick that you then have to use on a QB?
No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Some just dont understand the importance of a Franchise QB
and yes Eli is just that.. this is an offensive league, and a QB is essential.. look at all of the other teams desperately reaching for QB's and found no luck like Tennessee.. Jax etc..
If they throw in a 10 foot long party sub along with the number 1 pick
draft that doesn't come around often, much like Eli was when he came out, but I don't see one in this draft. Why do people around here want to get ride of Eli so bad? What makes that a good football decision? Seems like you would take a huge step back if you got ride of him no matter how many picks you get because you still would have an unknown at QB.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
RE: You'd consider it if there was an Andrew Luck type player in the
draft that doesn't come around often, much like Eli was when he came out, but I don't see one in this draft. Why do people around here want to get ride of Eli so bad? What makes that a good football decision? Seems like you would take a huge step back if you got ride of him no matter how many picks you get because you still would have an unknown at QB.
^This. No Andrew Luck in this draft, so no. For two #1s though, yes. And that comes from someone who wouldn't extend Eli, just pay him the $17M he's owed next season. Last Sunday notwithstanding, Eli has played well this year. He has limited weapons, no running game, and an OL that can't pass or run block. Reese, not Eli, is the problem.
But it's all moot, because nobody would give us a #1 for Eli.
He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
I actually don't want to get rid of Eli and think he can be part of a solution but we also have to understand that Eli likely doesn't have a ton of years left in him and that this team is more than just a couple pieces away. We really need to rebuild and adding a top 10 pick on top of what is likely to be another one or a pick on the cusp of one would be a major help and an opportunity to expedite that process.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
Even if its Oakland's.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
Your right there is not guarantee it will work...
Here is my thinking on why you do it though...
You lose Eli's salary and gain a lot of cap room to work on the other holes on this team, which there are a lot of
Mariota can be the heir apparent and if it pans out would realy kick start the rebuild...I think he is a perfect fit for this system..
The other draft pick would be BPA, adds more talent to this team...
the main thing that draws me to this scenario is the added cap room you gain to fill out this roster..
definitely... and then the Giants get James Winston in the draft
They already have a lot of talent on that team...they have a veteran HC who probably is not looking to draft another QB high...the have a young RB who looks like he can be a stud..
The Rams are probably a good Vet Qb away from contending...
I still don't understand what good trading Eli does the Giants in the short term or long term. He gives us the best chance to win another super bowl in the next 5 years. You can say they have so much rebuilding to do it won't happen, but that's bullshit too. They aren't that far off. Injuries always play a factor, but next season, they continue to beef up the oline and get playmakers back like Prince, Cruz, and Beason you might have a squad.
And I'd be willing to give Nassib a shot next year. He might suck....but there's reason to think he might be pretty decent. He's got a great arm, has shown good accuracy, made good reads in pre-season, has decent mobility and showed great competitivenss at Syracuse and this pre-season. There are certainly no guarantees with him, but it's not a given that he would suck.
Trading Eli is the quickest way for us to rebuild. Say you got a 1st and a 2nd round pick for him (which wouldn't be crazy). Two extra high draft picks plus $20 million in cap space could go a LONG LONG way in helping this team rebuild.
Like Greg referred to, the only real reason to keep him is if you think we are going to contend in the next 2-3 years. The irony is that Eli's cap hit is one of the biggest barriers to rebuilding the team.
If you take away the emotional factor and look at this objectively it's a very tough call to make.....and not nearly as simply as some of the glib responses here imply.
#1 it is and if Winston is available (as in not in jail or going there) along with Mariota. Becaused you would likely have to get one or the other to replace Eli. If we had a #8 because of our record, and we got another pick 6 thru 10 or better, I'd be tempted.
Eli Manning is our guy. I love him as our quarterback and I think he is going to have plenty of success with us moving forward. I am fully confident in his abilities and the bashing he's received here has been ignorant and unwarranted.
But in this make-believe, fairy tale scenario where a team offers us a #1 pick? If it were a top 10 pick, yes I'd take it.
The Cardinals franchise QB just tore his ACL for the second time, after returning from shoulder surgery.
I think they're having buyers remorse and there's a good chance Palmer is IR'd next year.
Their D, and offense other than QB are legit, who knows maybe Stanton is their guy, but I don't think Palmer's contract would stop them. I don't think they'll draft a rookie QB, but they'd possibly trade for a veteran.
but, they were just examples. The key is a veteran team, solid offense, needs a QB.
RE: RE: Yes, but no team is offering a top 10 pick for Eli at this point.
He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Useless to the franchise?
Yes, useless, as in he's not actually helping them accomplish anything right now (not that it's primarily his fault; the team has pretty much done wrong by him, as far as I'm concerned, with what they've surrounded him with).
They suck with him and very likely will for the next couple seasons, as they hopefully rebuild (they don't have the high end talent to do a quick one, like you'll see with some other teams and their insta-turns). By the time they might actually be good again, he's going to likely be fizzling out and will have, from his perspective, had a significant portion of his career wasted and of his "legacy" destroyed.
They'll suck without him too, but at least, in theory, they'll have the cap space and extra draft pick(s) to acquire talent to more easily/better help them not suck down the line. And he'll at least have had a better shot at making the playoffs and having a few more good seasons, before he's done, if he lands in the right place.
Even if its Oakland's.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
You'd essentially be trading Eli for Mariota or Winston, which I wouldn't do.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
RE: RE: Eli for one pick that you then have to use on a QB?
No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
Yes fully understanding. Trading Manning for an unproven rookie QB. The other pick has nothing to do with it because you have it with or without Manning. It would be a dumb trade and gain you nothing. If it was the 1st overall and there was a player like Luck, I'd consider it, but there isn't one in this draft.
You'd essentially be trading Eli for Mariota or Winston, which I wouldn't do.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
OK, Eli for Mariota and cap space. Still wouldn't do it...
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
]
They certainly don't give me that Andrew Luck feel where I'm going to give up my 2x Super Bowl MVP for them. Especially in Winston's case with all those Chinese Buffets near the stadium with the carb legs.
to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
And how much longer does Eli give us that relative to how long it will take to put another SB contending caliber roster around him?
Eli isn't in his 20's anymore, that's the problem. And he's not going to be around forever.
I love the guy as much as anyone and I'd love to see him win another one here before he finally hangs them up. I just think this roster has too many holes and it's going to take a couple years to fill them if we're lucky. By then, is Eli going to still have it? Odds aren't good.
We need a ton of help, no way I am trading Eli for just a first round pick, especially if we are already drafting in the top 10.
Think about it, you are trading Eli for only a 1st, then you have to draft is replacement with that first.
No thanks...
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Any team finishing with a top 10 pick almost certainly needs to rebuild or is in the process of doing so. You don't dump a premium draft pick for an aging vet QB because teams with picks that high aren't going to be one player away.
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
^This. No Andrew Luck in this draft, so no. For two #1s though, yes. And that comes from someone who wouldn't extend Eli, just pay him the $17M he's owed next season. Last Sunday notwithstanding, Eli has played well this year. He has limited weapons, no running game, and an OL that can't pass or run block. Reese, not Eli, is the problem.
But it's all moot, because nobody would give us a #1 for Eli.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Useless to the franchise?
In no way was this a troll post...
Quote:
and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
I would trade Eli, I'd trade anyone, but it really needs to be more than a 1st.
Percy Harvin was traded for a 1st and 7th and a 3rd the next year.
Trent Richardson was traded for a 1st round pick.
Heck, Deion Banch was traded for a 1st round pick and Seattle then needed to sign him to a contract extension.
I think even heading into his final year, Eli should net more than a 1st round pick.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
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In comment 11986595 UConn4523 said:
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and we may already be in the top 10. So say you like Mariota, then what?
Same fucking problem. There's zero guarantees any rookie QB will work out. The only guarantee is the Eli will perform with a better line and better weapons. That's how you move forward.
Uconn i am saying keep our top 10 pick and trade Eli for another pick...so basically 2 picks in the top 10 or 15...
Right and that's exactly what I'm referring to. So you get a top QB, for arguments sake we will say Mariota, and our pick to use on im guessing OL.
Why would we do that? Just to have a new QB? What guarantees are there than any of these guys can even hold up in NYC, let alone adapting to the pro game.
I'd absolutely hate going in this direction. Its a direction that has very little upside and massive amounts of downside.
Your right there is not guarantee it will work...
Here is my thinking on why you do it though...
You lose Eli's salary and gain a lot of cap room to work on the other holes on this team, which there are a lot of
Mariota can be the heir apparent and if it pans out would realy kick start the rebuild...I think he is a perfect fit for this system..
The other draft pick would be BPA, adds more talent to this team...
the main thing that draws me to this scenario is the added cap room you gain to fill out this roster..
kidding
St. Louis may be interested.
They already have a lot of talent on that team...they have a veteran HC who probably is not looking to draft another QB high...the have a young RB who looks like he can be a stud..
The Rams are probably a good Vet Qb away from contending...
Trading Eli is the quickest way for us to rebuild. Say you got a 1st and a 2nd round pick for him (which wouldn't be crazy). Two extra high draft picks plus $20 million in cap space could go a LONG LONG way in helping this team rebuild.
Like Greg referred to, the only real reason to keep him is if you think we are going to contend in the next 2-3 years. The irony is that Eli's cap hit is one of the biggest barriers to rebuilding the team.
If you take away the emotional factor and look at this objectively it's a very tough call to make.....and not nearly as simply as some of the glib responses here imply.
But in this make-believe, fairy tale scenario where a team offers us a #1 pick? If it were a top 10 pick, yes I'd take it.
11 or 12... I'd consider it.
Anything later than that. No.
The Cardinals franchise QB just tore his ACL for the second time, after returning from shoulder surgery.
I think they're having buyers remorse and there's a good chance Palmer is IR'd next year.
Their D, and offense other than QB are legit, who knows maybe Stanton is their guy, but I don't think Palmer's contract would stop them. I don't think they'll draft a rookie QB, but they'd possibly trade for a veteran.
but, they were just examples. The key is a veteran team, solid offense, needs a QB.
Quote:
He'd be worth more along what the Eagles got for McNabb (assuming he rebounds from Sunday and doesn't repeat that over and over again) and that's something that still should be at least considered.
It wouldn't have anything necessarily to do with Mariota or any QB in the draft either, as I have no idea where they really stand or project at this point. The Giants just aren't any good and very well may not be until Eli's career is really wrapping up; he's mostly useless to this franchise right now and neither he nor they are benefitting.
Useless to the franchise?
Yes, useless, as in he's not actually helping them accomplish anything right now (not that it's primarily his fault; the team has pretty much done wrong by him, as far as I'm concerned, with what they've surrounded him with).
They suck with him and very likely will for the next couple seasons, as they hopefully rebuild (they don't have the high end talent to do a quick one, like you'll see with some other teams and their insta-turns). By the time they might actually be good again, he's going to likely be fizzling out and will have, from his perspective, had a significant portion of his career wasted and of his "legacy" destroyed.
They'll suck without him too, but at least, in theory, they'll have the cap space and extra draft pick(s) to acquire talent to more easily/better help them not suck down the line. And he'll at least have had a better shot at making the playoffs and having a few more good seasons, before he's done, if he lands in the right place.
Nassib is not mobile and would get killed, and a Mariota would need to run for survival.
The Giants would need to make some huge OL offseason acquisitions to make giving up an Eli worth it, only to have to rely on a Backup veteran QB, RyanN of a rookie to be productive.
Bottom line: NO.
Nassib's a track star compared to Eli.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
Not necessarily at all.
Trading Eli for a 1? Or thinking we wouldn't even get a 1 for him?
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
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No, it gains you nothing but risk and some cap room. Renegotiating can gain you some of the cap room and doesn't carry the risk. Mariotta is good, but he is not a can't miss guy. If there was a player as sure as Luck for example, maybe, but not for that kind of risk at such an important position.
Do you not understand my scenario? i am saying you are keeping your pick and adding another 1st round pick...
I am not saying trade Eli and your 1st for another 1st...
Like i said before this isnt bash Eli...This is in no way his fault but right now he is your best asset and if you can lose his salary and gain a 1st it may be worth it...
Quote:
You'd essentially be trading Eli for Mariota or Winston, which I wouldn't do.
No you would be trading Eli for Mariota, a 1st and cap space to fill out the roster that is severely lacking depth...
Basically it comes down to if you think the Giants can compete in the next couple of years with Eli at the helm, what you think of Mariota and where do you see this team going...
OK, Eli for Mariota and cap space. Still wouldn't do it...
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to have Danny Kannell? Dave Brown? Fucking Tommy Maddox? You can call Eli useless to the franchise right now but what he gives you is a chance to win and stability every Sunday. You have a guy that plays every snap, doesn't cause any issues in the locker room/media. You know what you get.
It really comes down to what you think of Mariota or Winston...if you think they can be franchise Qbs then it may be worth it...if you dont then you dont make the trade really that simple..
They certainly don't give me that Andrew Luck feel where I'm going to give up my 2x Super Bowl MVP for them. Especially in Winston's case with all those Chinese Buffets near the stadium with the carb legs.
And how much longer does Eli give us that relative to how long it will take to put another SB contending caliber roster around him?
Eli isn't in his 20's anymore, that's the problem. And he's not going to be around forever.
I love the guy as much as anyone and I'd love to see him win another one here before he finally hangs them up. I just think this roster has too many holes and it's going to take a couple years to fill them if we're lucky. By then, is Eli going to still have it? Odds aren't good.