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| Gunnery Sgt. Hector Vicente has 20 years of Marine Corps experiences under his belt, but what he heard one morning from his junior Marines made him wonder how well he knew the Corps. While at the barracks aboard Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, one weekend, a group of his junior Marines from the entry-level school for personnel administration stopped by on their way to the beach. "Gunny, we were out last night at Buffalo Wild Wings and some Marines walked by and called us 'boots' and 'POGs,'" one private first class said. "Why would a fellow Marine do that?" It wasn't the name-calling itself that bothered Vicente, who, as a career support Marine, knew that the terms were often thrown around within the Corps as part of its coarse culture. It was the fact that one group of Marines was trying to belittle and humiliate another group of Marines in public. "It truly saddens me when a group of PFCs ask me why they would be called 'boot' and 'POG' while they are dining at a restaurant," Vicente said. "That act to me is truly disheartening." The service rivalry between infantry Marines, or grunts, and support Marines, sometimes called "persons other than grunts" or "POGs" for short, is a ubiquitous part of Marine Corps culture. It's fed by grunts' pride in their elite training and dangerous work — and the perception that support Marines enjoy better living conditions and easier work, particularly when deployed to combat zones. Many Marines take the name calling and friendly jabs in stride, but some worry that the increased popularity of social media over the last few years has given rise to an uglier and less well-intentioned form of mockery that is especially hard to navigate for the most junior Marines. And while grunts and support Marines have often served side-by-side in equal danger outside the wire over the last 13 years of combat operations, earning mutual respect, the dynamics of rivalry could change as the Marine Corps enters what may be a period of peacetime. Some are calling on Marine unit leaders to address the rift before it intensifies. |
The only time I ever remember it getting ugly was at Al-Asad. It was easy to tell grunts from POGs there because we had stock issue M-16s and they had M-4s with optics and all sorts of other customized stuff. They'd talk shit to us in the PX, DFAC, etc. Me and my buddies, we would just shrug it off because, frankly, we were fine with not getting shot at all the time. It could get intimidating sometimes, though, when there would be a big crowd of those guys and two or three of us.
Now...Jon...I bet he used to go back to his room and cry. That little POG bitch.
I'll also say that, in my experience, there's sort of a sliding scale of disdain. We were obviously pogues, but generally I've been told that we were higher up the totem pole than, say, admin or supply. We had a job that wasn't physically strenuous or dangerous but was technically demanding and vital to the mission. They always hate admin the most.
Fuck yeah MACS-1!
and no, I never ran back to my room and to cry...I would just hide in the closest porta-john and hope they didn't tip it over...again.
And since we have a JFK assassination thread, I'll mention that MACS-4 was Lee Harvey Oswald's unit.
Why? It's a typical intra-service rivalry between MOS's. As long as it's done as a good nature competition, I don't see anything wrong with it. When you start going in the direction of belittling and bullying, yeah, that's when it's gone off the rail.
And since we have a JFK assassination thread, I'll mention that MACS-4 was Lee Harvey Oswald's unit.
Yes...I can see the Oswald thing definitely being a topic of dark humor.
Yeah...most of my uniform were fitted for me when I was a brand new 2ndLt (when I was 25lbs lighter), who ran all the damn time. I had to get all of my uniforms refitted and tailored. One tailor even stated "oh my" when she saw how my service pants fit prior to getting them tailored. Needless to say, the uniforms are not so comfortable these days when I have to wear them for drill.
Yeah...I heard from many friends, who have been on that MEU that that is probably the highlight of your MEU...which is both awesome and sad at the same time.
In retrospect, that's probably the poguest picture I could have possibly taken.
So basically none. You damn POG.
Quote:
I saw more action in my 6 months deployed to Iraq as a Civilian than in my 5 years active duty .
So basically none. You damn POG.
Bingo!
Sometime earlier this year, I overheard a conversation between a female Air Force Captain and a male Marine Lance Corporal. He was talking about how his PFT was coming up and how he had to get his pull-up numbers up. The Captain then enthusiastically tells him that by working really hard in her Crossfit box, she was not able to do 30 pull-ups. In the most deadpan manner, the LCpl responded by asking a simple "are they dead-hang pull-ups, ma'am?" When the Captain sheepishly said, "no," the LCpl in a perfectly impassive tone stated, "ma'am, you can't do 30 pull-ups." All that the Captain could do was the give a weak laugh but remained quiet.
He was disrespectful or made fun of her. But I had to turn away because I thought I was going to die laughing.
LCpl FTW.
and from the afterword, a salient point...
I will say one thing - way back in AVA I-strand at the schoolhouse in Pensacola, they used to threaten us that we'd get shipped to the grunts if we rocked out....yet the one guy that I know for a fact who wanted out of 63/64 fields in order to become an 03 was not allowed to because he was told that 63/64 had critical shortages, and it was too hard to fill those spots because there weren't many recruits whose EL score was high enough, so he had to stay in AVA. If you're wondering why he wanted to be a grunt.....he, like me, had enlisted not long before 9/11. There was no war, so he figured air wing sounded cool. After 9/11, he wanted to go fight.
I knew a ton of guys who rocked out of the various NATTC schools, but not one who ever was actually sent to infantry. Mostly they'd get sent to admin, armorer, various mechnical schools or supply. I knew one guy who got artillery. He was the only one I ever knew of who got sent to a combat arms MOS.
I knew a ton of guys who rocked out of the various NATTC schools, but not one who ever was actually sent to infantry. Mostly they'd get sent to admin, armorer, various mechnical schools or supply. I knew one guy who got artillery. He was the only one I ever knew of who got sent to a combat arms MOS.
Yeah...Terminal Lance was the one that posted both the article and the comic at the same time.
And of course the 03XX wouldn't want guys, who would intentionally or unintentionally rock out of their training. The stereotype of grunts being stupid is such a myth. It takes a lot to be a good grunt, especially as they move into the team and squad leader level. And a platoon sergeant basically has to be a tactical expert with the ability to adapt to changing combat environments.
So what you are saying is that Jon would make a terrible grunt knowing that he's got that Pennsyltucky brain...in addition to him being a total pussy. Gotcha.
Cats? Dude....get your Asian joke straight. It's the stray dogs. And obviously you didn't spend much time on the ground since you see far more stray dogs than stray cats in Iraq...freaking POG.
Yeah, let me just say that that battalion commander was not really liked or respected by the Marines (for many other reasons as well).
Yeah...if I recall, I think it was that reason. However, we were so far off the grid that shit like that could have been ignored, especially when these dogs were all vaccinated already with vaccines we got from our Military Working Dog team's contacts. Ah well...shit's done...no need to hash old feelings.
When it was our turn to advance to the rear, these guys decided that the lame dog was better off being old yella then left to fend for herself with the roving pack. They told the Company Commander their plan and his exact words were "Do Not shot her in front of the company."
So our guys lure her to the side of the company bivack, put the gun in her mouth, and pull the trigger. The bullet goes through her jaw and misses her body. The dog takes off on all four legs and now these guys really have to put it down as it obviously can survive with a wreck lower jaw. The company commander who was in his vehicle when this was happening but I'm sure a Staff NCO had a talk with the farm-boys who couldn't figure out what he meant by "not in front."
Later on, the CO told some of us over moonshine how at the next Company Commander Meeting at Battlion HQ, another company commander "innocently" asked, "hey, did anyone hear gunfire yesterday on the right side?" Now our CO wasn' the type to throw people under a bus if he could help so I got the impression he faked ignorance about it until he could have a private conversation with his superior.
One of my snipers took it (his name was "Shooter") behind our building and put a 9mm to the back of his head. We buried him in a dirt patch. You never saw a bunch of combat-hardened Marines so down (and pissed off) as my snipers were for the next few days.