After thinking long and hard about the Giants current situation, I stand as a strong supporter and advocate for keeping Tom Coughlin as our head coach.
When discussing changing head coaches, you must compare the current regime with any replacement regime, with the caveat to the Giant's situation that Coughlin is nearing 70 years old and will have to be replaced at some point in the near future anyway.
With that said, there is nothing that I can see from afar about the manner in which he coaches which indicates that a change is needed - his players continue to play hard: They were in the game against the defending champion Seahawks for 3 quarters in Seattle; they were in striking distance of winning against the a very talented 49er team despite Eli throwing 5 interceptions; they nearly defeated the currently 8-1 Arizona Cardinals, all while losing premiere players such as Prince Amukamara, Rashad Jennings, Geoff Schwartz, Cullen Jenkins, Victor Cruz, Trumaine McBride, Walter Thurmond, David Wilson, Will Hill.
Last year, after starting a disastrous 0-6, the team clawed its way back to a respectable 7-9 despite fielding an offensive line that included the likes of Jim Cordle, James Brewer, David Diehl, and Kevin Boothe, and skill players like Andre Brown, Brandon Myers and a completely uninterested Hakeem Nicks.
The bottom line is this team lacks talent! It's talent, not scheme, not coaching - at least head coaching. Yes, there are teams that have struggled through injuries but its not unprecedented for teams to go through talent swoons. Case in point - the Great Don Shula from 1986 through 1989 went went 30-33 before rebounding for a strong end to his career; Bill Cohwer went 22-26 from 98-2000 before rebounding for a very strong finish; Jeff Fisher went 17-33 from 2004 to 2006 before turning his team around and making it to the playoffs two years in a row; Andy Reid went down in flames in Philly under the burden of little talent before remaking himself to a very strong record in KC the last two years. Bottom line is Coughlin can still coach, he still motivates his team, he has a young, talented Offensive Coordinator, and a franchise QB still in his prime. We just need more talent.
I think our season has been ruined by injuries, we were close against some good teams, we just need a year to get healthy, get players back. We have a lot of cap room and should get a good draft slot next year. Our core is not terrible if we re-sign JPP and Rolle to reasonable contracts, and people get healthy.
I can't be the only one.
You give credit for hanging in against Seattle before getting fucking embarrassed in the 4th quarter as if it's something to hang our hats on. The SF game was about as inept as you'll see on the offensive side of the football. These are things we're crediting TC for?
What about games like PHI or IND where we weren't even remotely competitive? Or CAR, KC, SEA, etc. last year? Or ATL, BAL, CIN the year before?
Shouldn't a well coached team beat a good team SOMETIMES?
I can't think of one thing to give Tom credit for right now. Love the guy, he's had a hell of a run.. but it's just time.
This is an undisciplined team that makes a lot of mistakes and far too often looks like they didn't even bother to show up for a game.
If there was ever a time to make a coaching change, I'm sorry but this is it.
We've had a great run. Nothing is forever. Time to start a new chapter.
His has been a mixed tenure outside of the 2 SB runs. Now obviously SB runs are enormously special and difficult which is why he (deservedly) gets the acclaim and slack that he does. But they're going to miss the playoffs again. 5 times in 6 years. We have no post-season to look forward to...and it's week 11.
I'm not saying definitely replace him (gun to my head he gets one more "prove it or you're out" season), but c'mon...you can't think of any reason why the Giants should replace him? A stretch, to say the least.
2. The blowouts. Just far too many complete blowouts, where the team was not competitive in any manner whatsoever.
3. I don't believe this team is getting enough out of the talent. That's pure opinion on my part, I understand. Case in point is Damontre Moore. There's just something about Coughlin, some kind of intransigence, that leads me to feel that he is underutilizing the talent he has, too often. In all likelihood, Richburg would not have played a snap this year except for the Schwartz injury. Last year, the same situation with Pugh.
You make good points, there have been more than our fair share of blowouts, but I still think the measure of a good coach is getting there team ready and motivated for playing during the worst of times and the best of times. Turning last season around with the talent they had, to get to 5-6 after starting 0-6, I think, was a great coaching job.
I think playing seattle toe-to-toe for 3 quarters was impressive. They lost there will, but that's not on Coughlin, that's on the players.
I still think, and as a poster pointed to earlier, that our 09-12 drafts have killed us. We have 4 starters from those 4 draft classes: Beatty, JPP, Amukamara, and Jacquian Williams. We have 5 starters and 2 prominent role players from the last two in: Pugh, Hankins, Beckham, Kennard, Williams, and Moore.
Bottom line is, I think Coughlin gets his team up to play, he just needs the players.
Here's the real dilemma: You aren't going to find a coach as good as the one you have. The owners shouldn't be entertaining a change in coaches (by coaches I mean the head coach-I think many of the lesser coaches have grossly underachieved but that's a different discussion) unless they have a replacement in mind whom they have superior confidence in. Who is that guy?
Spags? He was an abject failure as a head coach and, frankly, sans a world class pass rush, a subpar defensive coordinator.
McAdoo? He hasn't even succeeded as an offensive coordinator. What would make anyone think he's fit to be a successful head coach?
Gruden? He's a troll who also happens to love the offensive side of the game but he won with Dungy's team.
Even Cowher, although well respected, can't carry Coughlin's clipboard. Doesn't anyone remember the years of playoff loses before he finally got over the top. He's a good coach but he's no Tom Coughlin.
I say fix the o-line, pay attention to the lb position, fire the defensive coordinator and the special teams coordinator and retain the head coach. These are Eli's last few prime years. We'd have to catch lightening in a bottle with a new HC not to squander them.
My 2 cents.
A moron why, exactly?
Because people see a completely dysfunctional football team for a 2nd straight year? Because this team is going to miss the playoffs for the 5th time in 6 years?
Nothing is forever in this league. You can't just give a guy a lifetime pass because of a successful couple of seasons. It sounds shitty but this is a results based league. This is 3 straight years now of getting blown out of the water multiple times in each season. At some point the buck has to stop with the coach.
Some of the things that I think hold us back are his old school approach still to football. This in particular with the rookies...
Every players football life is short...and losing 2 years of sporadic play for most is not going to cut it. I see zero reason why Kiwi plays over Moore regardless of his mistakes etc...it just should not happen at this point
Dont pick a guy in the 3rd round like Bromley and not give him playing team when your defense already sucks and you can see guys like Kuntz getting hammered.
Those 2 superbowl runs kept him here and they were very opportunistic runs. The year we lost plax could be looked at in the opposite way that we should have been able to overcome the loss of 1 player (albeit a superstar) and have gone further....that is on the coaches
I think he runs out his contract and we move on...
You give credit for hanging in against Seattle before getting fucking embarrassed in the 4th quarter as if it's something to hang our hats on. The SF game was about as inept as you'll see on the offensive side of the football. These are things we're crediting TC for?
What about games like PHI or IND where we weren't even remotely competitive? Or CAR, KC, SEA, etc. last year? Or ATL, BAL, CIN the year before?
Shouldn't a well coached team beat a good team SOMETIMES?
I can't think of one thing to give Tom credit for right now. Love the guy, he's had a hell of a run.. but it's just time.
This is an undisciplined team that makes a lot of mistakes and far too often looks like they didn't even bother to show up for a game.
If there was ever a time to make a coaching change, I'm sorry but this is it.
We've had a great run. Nothing is forever. Time to start a new chapter.
Totally agree. It's just time to move on. I don't understand why others can't see this
This isn't too difficult. 69 year old coach who missed playoffs in 5 of last 6 years;
Team is noncompetitive every other week;
When was the last team Coughlin's beat a team with a winning record (much less a playoff team)?;
We had some great times TC. You'll be part of me forever but...we need a divorce.
Signed,
Your favorite moron.
The injuries keep happening because Coughlin is forcing them to train on old, outdated military equipment rather than what's in the facility.
Anyway, i think Tom coaches this team as long as he wants.
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Even talent is not the main issue, its injuries. Why are we always so injured. Look at the rest of the league our team has been close to the top or led the league in starter games lost period and the last few years we are setting record numbers of injuries.. Is that coaching? Is that talent evaluation? Is it bad luck? Is it training? what?
The injuries keep happening because Coughlin is forcing them to train on old, outdated military equipment rather than what's in the facility.
I bet TC still has them using those round barbells from the 1920s.
Anyway, i think Tom coaches this team as long as he wants.
Todd Bowles; Josh McDaniels
Tom Quinn (just fucking with you).
I love TC b/c he's old school and because of those two SB runs, but it's way past time for him to step down.
Two good candidates. McDaniel has followed Belechick career arc (coordinator; head coach; coordinator) except on other side of the ball.
Bowles just appears to be a very good defense mind and has some good coordinator experience (and wasn't a bad interim head coach in Miami).
Coach Coughlin had a great run. But all good things...
Come on, its time. Don't delay the inevitable.
So, your claim about no talent is Monday morning quarterbacking
Also, your argument really is that Coughlin is not to blame. You don't provide reasons for why he is the best choice going forward. Last year, Andy Reid proved to everyone that he was a good coach by reviving KC. But there is also little doubt that firing Reid was the right move by the a Eagles.
Coughlin might not be the only one to blame for this atrocious season, but getting a new guy might still be the right move.
that's hardly gospel.
Nobody on this board was predicting we'd have 3 wins before thanks. And if they say they did now, other than maybe Joey in VA, they're lying.
Traditionally it takes three years or so to build up a football program. If you look at it like a rebuild, this would be year one.
Now the record may be worse this year , although the season must play out, but I think the team is better this year than last.
Injuries can not be a excuse, but the Giants have been ravaged. The Secondary wasy built up to be a strength, instead crushed by injury. The O-line was a damn joke last year, the key free agent signed to bolster it was hurt in the freakin' preseason. The Giants had to sign backs off the street last year the cupboard was so bare. Jennings, the free agent brought in to deal with that issue was injured for the most critical games of the season. Finally, there was the explosion of Cruz's knee on what would have been a game altering TD catch. Injuries may not be an excuse, but I think in this case they sure as hell are a factor.
I say let TC get a shot at finishing this rebuild. He built two winning squads with two different franchises. He has the track record. Bottom line, if the Giants go in a different direction it is highly likely that the guy they bring in will be a much inferior coach.
Not necessarily a likely outcome.
And Eli never having missed a game is an incredible boon.
Plus, Cruz and Prince are the only two top players that have been lost for the season and Giants were just as lousy when they were on the field.
Having OBJ and Jennings miss a few weeks is nothing exceptional. Every NFL team has that. Having injuries concentrated in the secondary is tough, but fortunately Reese spent much of his FA money on the secondary so they still have a decent unit.
Mediocrity will prevail.
I would/could say that whoever wants to keep the same old, same old is a moron and deserves another non-playoff year in 2015.
Even an Energizer battery has to be replaced sometimes.
While this is somewhat true -The Giants are about to break their record of injuries they set last year, this is way way above what other teams are experiencing. This is very concerning.
And Eli never having missed a game is an incredible boon.
Plus, Cruz and Prince are the only two top players that have been lost for the season and Giants were just as lousy when they were on the field.
Having OBJ and Jennings miss a few weeks is nothing exceptional. Every NFL team has that. Having injuries concentrated in the secondary is tough, but fortunately Reese spent much of his FA money on the secondary so they still have a decent unit.
In comment 11989910 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
not just the Giants
While this is somewhat true -The Giants are about to break their record of injuries they set last year, this is way way above what other teams are experiencing. This is very concerning.
And Eli never having missed a game is an incredible boon.
Plus, Cruz and Prince are the only two top players that have been lost for the season and Giants were just as lousy when they were on the field.
Having OBJ and Jennings miss a few weeks is nothing exceptional. Every NFL team has that. Having injuries concentrated in the secondary is tough, but fortunately Reese spent much of his FA money on the secondary so they still have a decent unit.
Last year, he defended KG as his OC, afer Mara intervened, he changed his mind. In all honesty, how some can defend him is unbelievable. If he were so concerend with the team, he should retire and let them move on. The Eagles did the right thing 2 yrs ago even though Andy Reid was a good coach but, they saw a change was needed.