Gilbride "Last year the offense wasn't broken"

In comment 11989993 Go Terps said:

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Now he's a sympathetic figure. People are something else.

I was defending him last year and pointed to the lack of talent.

In comment 11989993 Go Terps said:

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Now he's a sympathetic figure. People are something else.

I have defended him many times over the last couple of years. Again, while I would question a couple of calls a game, outside of last year, I thought it was very difficult to question his gameplanning, playcalling, or preparation when the team was scoring at historic rates for the franchise.

Gilbride sure talks enough shit.

But there was more at work than just a talent dropoff. Again, look at what happened in 2012.

quite a bit. Best time to try it. How is it working out for them? Same vertical offense that the Giants used to run. As for the change, the Giants lost a lot when they fired Gilbride. McAdoo is promising but calling plays he's greener than Baby crap. It's a stay-on-schedule offense: 4 yards on first 3 on second. Convert on third. But they can't survive a minus play or penalty. Kevin was good at dealing with that. Finally, good defenses do not allow the short-passing game against teams with crud o-lines like the Giants. We went over that adnauseum last season. It is refreshing to see Gilbride's reputation restored somewhat. At least by the honest among his critics have relented to a degree. Guy is an offensive genius who walked the plank for the professional ineptitude of others,

Predictable by everyone including my cat?

Yes.

think any rational fan blamed last year's horrible offensive production solely on Gilbride. We've had some pretty good offenses when he was OC, so clearly he can run a good NFL offense.

That being said, he had a lot of tendencies that I didn't like, and I thought we could do better at OC than him. Whether last year was his fault or not, getting new blood in that position was a good thing. Right now, it looks like there's too many personnel issues to really judge McCadoo either.

In comment 11990006 Zebra3 said:

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Gilbride sure talks enough shit.

He 'retired' because no team in the world wanted him.

regardless of the merits (or lack of them) of his offense and coaching.

And that's a reflection of the General Manager and his draft team. They were and still are the biggest problem BY FAR.

In comment 11990012 RetroJint said:

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quite a bit. Best time to try it. How is it working out for them? Same vertical offense that the Giants used to run. As for the change, the Giants lost a lot when they fired Gilbride. McAdoo is promising but calling plays he's greener than Baby crap. It's a stay-on-schedule offense: 4 yards on first 3 on second. Convert on third. But they can't survive a minus play or penalty. Kevin was good at dealing with that. Finally, good defenses do not allow the short-passing game against teams with crud o-lines like the Giants. We went over that adnauseum last season. It is refreshing to see Gilbride's reputation restored somewhat. At least by the honest among his critics have relented to a degree. Guy is an offensive genius who walked the plank for the professional ineptitude of others,

+1. Incredibly, there are still "magic scheme" folks here who think there is some magic scheme that makes everything better. As you have pointed out, we won 4 Super Bowls with that vertical offense.

In comment 11990021 Stan from LA said:

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In comment 11990006 Zebra3 said: Quote: Gilbride sure talks enough shit. He 'retired' because no team in the world wanted him.

No one wants you, but you refuse to leave.

In comment 11990057 HomerJones45 said:

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In comment 11990012 RetroJint said: Quote: quite a bit. Best time to try it. How is it working out for them? Same vertical offense that the Giants used to run. As for the change, the Giants lost a lot when they fired Gilbride. McAdoo is promising but calling plays he's greener than Baby crap. It's a stay-on-schedule offense: 4 yards on first 3 on second. Convert on third. But they can't survive a minus play or penalty. Kevin was good at dealing with that. Finally, good defenses do not allow the short-passing game against teams with crud o-lines like the Giants. We went over that adnauseum last season. It is refreshing to see Gilbride's reputation restored somewhat. At least by the honest among his critics have relented to a degree. Guy is an offensive genius who walked the plank for the professional ineptitude of others, +1. Incredibly, there are still "magic scheme" folks here who think there is some magic scheme that makes everything better. As you have pointed out, we won 4 Super Bowls with that vertical offense.

No, we won 2 SBs with that vertical offense. That is nowhere near the vertical offense the Giants ran under Parcells

OL broken? Yes!! Apart from OBJ and Cruz, WRs broken? Yes!! TE broken after Martellus walks? Yes!! (Myers for Bennett , what a joke on us fans).

Whose fault? The guy who "retired"? Nah, the R & R guys for their incompetence.

Shame on Reese and Ross for failing to put an adequate OL in front of Eli. What a tremendous waste of Eli's talents because of R & R. John Mara: Please!!! The FO is "broken" so please ask R & R to F. Off!!

...but shouldn't he have realized that a little bit sooner? If your offensive line stinks and your most physically gifted WR can't created any separation OR catch the ball, it might be time to move away from a passing game based on deep drops and downfield passing.

Coach the players you have.

In comment 11989982 Bill in UT said:

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What does that say about John Mara's ability to grasp the situation, then and going forward?

There are certainly drafting issues in the front office yet Gilbride isn't exactly innocent.

1. The monotony of calling the same plays in the same situations made it easy for the fans to call out the play prior to the snap. Andy Reid looked like he had the Giants playbook most games. The whole stadium was yelling "Omaha . . . inside handoff" so that's not on the players.

2. If you don't have enough practice time to educate the receivers about the offense (running the wrong patterns), simplify the offense.

Gilbride's comments appear to take no responsibility for failures including monotonous play calling and the inability to get the play called into the QB on time. Really? Take some ownership.

was from an interview with ESPN radio.

He did not talk any shit, in fact his interviews are awesome.

They kept mentioning NBC sports, when is he on? Gilbride's interviews were always very informative and I would love to see if his analysis of the NFL is as interesting. Certainly has to be better than 99% of the crap out there.

The team sucked last year. He says it in the interview. There was a revolving door at tailback and the O line, how can you operate a pro offense like that?

I could never criticize Gilbride after 2011. I mean the Giants had comeback after comeback, throwing the ball downfield for big plays when everyone in the stadium knew the Giants had to pass and score quick. That is incredible and a big part of that was his batten down the hatches aggressive down the field scheme. He was paired with the perfect QB and they reached their peak in 2011. I have my doubts the system the Giants run now, which by my amateur analysis seems predicated on quick hits and run after the catch, could have pulled off the 2011 run.

me, I always supported Gilbride.....How could an offense that worked so well be broken....

Maybe the parts using it weren't very good.

about the shotgun draws. Gilbride had his warts, but yeah it doesn't seem like anyone can build a winner with the current state of this offensive line.

the shotgun draws drove us nuts when it didn't work

Well, they worked just fine when we had Tiki running them, or Jacobs/Bradshaw in their prime behind a healthy O-Line

In comment 11989985 Greg from LI said:

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Greg, I was thinking about that season and then realized the following:

Bradshaw was playing on one good leg. Brown, who was a surprise to all of us, gets hurt in the Packers game and is lost for the season. In the biggest game of the season in Atlanta where the whole year spiraled, Kregg Lumpkin was playing nearly 1/2 of the snaps at running back along with Wilson, who as we found out later, wasn't ready yet.

Nicks was still hurt and not a matchup problem for opponents. Hixon didn't bring much to the table on offense leaving Cruz to fend for himself.

The weapons were simply not there. The o-line also had a number of terrible performances. We just kind a swept it under the rug at the time. Also, Manning on his own, was not good either it was because of an injury that was speculated about from the middle of the season on or not.

So there were a lot of moving parts in that 2nd half of the season where I look back now and understand whey they struggled in some spots they did. The wins they got were against terrible defenses and they put up big points.

Haah? Maybe? Wouldn't be the first time a dope inherited a going business.

In comment 11990142 Blackbeard said:

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Haah? Maybe? Wouldn't be the first time a dope inherited a going business.

What's with all the Mara hate? Its not like the franchise has won 4 Super Bowls or anything.

In comment 11990075 rsjem1979 said:

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...but shouldn't he have realized that a little bit sooner? If your offensive line stinks and your most physically gifted WR can't created any separation OR catch the ball, it might be time to move away from a passing game based on deep drops and downfield passing. Coach the players you have.

And do what exactly?

When the opponent notices this and adjusts to taking away short throws because they have ZERO fear of you going downfield because you can't protect the QB at all, what do you want to do to counter? This isn't Madden on XBOX.

There is no magic elixir for poor talent. None. They had none of it last year. The QB was pressured on 38% of his throws, the 2nd highest rate in the NFL.

Explain how any coaching staff can adjust to that when their QB is under duress nearly 1 of out every 2 plays?

stop it with the draws on 3rd and long

In comment 11989960 Britt in VA said:

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The offense was always boom or bust. Even when things were going well Eli lead the league 2 other times, not including last year, in INTs.

It was an offense that attacked down field with routes associated with 5 and 7 step drops. True, we lacked personnel, but we didn't make adjustments until 4-6 games in. I can't remember what exact game until we saw more 3 step drops .

Add bad play, poodecisions by Eli, bad WR play, usual miscommunication and terrible OB play, pass blocking and run blocking, and it was an epic shit show.

Our RB, WR, and TE were useless.

Never blames his tools

Look at josh mcdaniels in New England

Was it broke yes but he fixed it and as far as talent goes besides Gronk and Brady they have shit for talent

but much of it was a result of trying to protect the unit from itself ... poor OL talent, injuries at WR, Randle and the young wideouts consistently blowing reads, etc.

It doesn't matter if the offense was "broken" or it was the complexity involved (very likely imo), it was time to turn the page. They should've swapped out PF as well, these half solutions are really annoying as we watch the seasons tick by.

this year. And his passing numbers are up across the board compared to last year.

a Ferrari engine to make it operate, but you put a volkswagon engine in it, then, yes, your system is broken. If your player is slower than the speed the play calls for, don't call that play.

have the talent to run that offense, then you change the offense. And he did not change the offense to keep Eli from getting killed.
The line was broken, so the long ball was not possible. Nicks didn't give a shyte, because he was broken.

Yes Kevin, spin it anyway you want, but the offense didn't work, so it was broken.

That is an absurd statement to make. What happens if your blade is dull and you can't cut the tile? It definitely is on the tool. Especially when your tile installer for 10 years hasn't had a problem cutting tile , until now..

The New England patriots have an unbelievable o line , I think 2-3 picks are 1st rd talent on there line. So they may not have these talented WR's but that o line gives u time for Brady to spread the ball.

In comment 11990149 BigBlueinChicago said:

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And do what exactly? When the opponent notices this and adjusts to taking away short throws because they have ZERO fear of you going downfield because you can't protect the QB at all, what do you want to do to counter? This isn't Madden on XBOX. There is no magic elixir for poor talent. None. They had none of it last year. The QB was pressured on 38% of his throws, the 2nd highest rate in the NFL. Explain how any coaching staff can adjust to that when their QB is under duress nearly 1 of out every 2 plays?

That was his job, not mine. But if it were me, and my QB was getting pressured every other play, I'd probably move away from calling pass plays that require 7-step drops and precise downfield reads by the WRs.

Then again, I'm not the kind of guy who likes to bash my head against the wall over and over again when I know it hurts.

For the record, I'm not sure there was a solution, but doing the same thing over and over despite the awful results is moronic.

You take a box cutter score the tile across the top and break over your knee

I have done it before myself it's called improvising

In comment 11990186 Joe in Cambridge said:

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this year. And his passing numbers are up across the board compared to last year.

And he also seems to have the play called before there's 3 seconds left on the play clock.

our personnel was awful last year. This year is a little better hence the results, but its still not good enough.

When you dont have talent on offense, Bill Walsh would struggle too.

It was obvious that the lack of talent on the OL would not allow them to run their downfield passing attack. As a responsilbe coordinator Gilbride should have pulled in the reins, shortened the routes and used more max-protect in order to protect Eli. They are lucky that he wasn't injured more seriously last year.

In comment 11989979 BrettNYG10 said:

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The deep passes on third and short are just as much on Eli as they are on the coordinators, if not more so. There are multiple routes and Eli's choosing to throw deep.

Not only that, on many of those routes (going solely on memory) one of Nicks/Cruz/Randle was one on one with a db with no S over the top. You have to take that throw and expect your WR to win. The WR's just didn't win very often.

That works when u have a 12 inch tile , and the cut is directly down the middle. But what happens if you need to cut out a 1 inch piece all the way down, on that 12 inch tile? Or how about an L piece? Just scoring the tile will not work , U need a sharp blade on your wet saw. A dull blade won't cut...

Basically what I'm saying is that if the machine works , you need to change out the blade because the old one is dull now.

It's the same principle in this game. Nicks was a great #1 who could take the top off a defense. But when his body broke down , Eli couldn't go to him on one on one situations.

Nicks needed to be replaced...

Football has many complicated parts , and it takes all 11 guys , fully working and sharp to make that work. A couple of bad parts/players and your machine will stop working.

It wasn't that there weren't enough good players, it was that the offense as designed, in an age of salary caps, suspensions and frequent injuries, relied too heavily on key quality players. When players were lost, as they inevitably are, the system suffered more than most and struggled to succeed when average replacement talent stepped in.

We have new OC and a new system , and the team has improved a few notches from last year offensively. But its still not a high power offense. I think Gilbride's comment is still justified , that bottom line whether its Macadoo's system , or any offensive system ,without good personnel it isn't gonna be high powered or truly effective.

It's hard to judge any scheme or offensive gameplan because they simply can't be executed the way they should be.

That said, we did see Gilbride's offense for many years with a quality OL. It was a B+ offense. It was good enough to win two championships with a dominant defense (dominant in the postseason, that is). But it didn't scare anybody

In comment 11990297 sxdxca said:

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We have new OC and a new system , and the team has improved a few notches from last year offensively. But its still not a high power offense. I think Gilbride's comment is still justified , that bottom line whether its Macadoo's system , or any offensive system ,without good personnel it isn't gonna be high powered or truly effective.

Are they really that much better this season than they were last season?

I wonder about that. If we grade last year's offense as an "F" and give it a "D" this season, I guess we can call that improvement.

Can we really say they are even an average offense this season? I'm not so sure bro.

I don't think there an average offense either. Neither system without the personnel is gonna work , at least good enough to win championships.

Consider the source.

In comment 11990016 Stan from LA said:

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Predictable by everyone including my cat? Yes.

[snort] Yep. After years of the same shit every team in the division could read it in their sleep.

In comment 11990174 Joe in Knoxville said:

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Never blames his tools Look at josh mcdaniels in New England Was it broke yes but he fixed it and as far as talent goes besides Gronk and Brady they have shit for talent

I'm with you Joe. He never said the tools may not suck...but instead that the good crafstman doesn't BLAME his tools. Maybe Gilbride should keep this trap shut before Mara kicks his lame-ass coaching son out of the door too

It's just as broken this year. Offense still stinks. How many games has the offense played well? Three out of ten?

In comment 11989994 arcarsenal said:

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I still wasn't enamored with Gilbrides offense and think we needed to change it regardless of the personnel. I think Eli can be far better in this one if we can actually put a line in front of him. Though I am not really sure what offense we are even running at this point. It's starting to look like the same one we ran before McAdoo was here again which is leading me to believe there's a bit of a philosophical disconnect between Ben and TC.

The system was good. The problem was that Gilbride got old. The creative juices needed on a weekly basis were long gone. He became predictable. He couldn't think quickly enough, hence the delay of game penalties.

Before the season started Gilbride claimed that he was the best OC in the league. I find it pathetic that Gilbride blames the "broken offense" on the lack of talent. Look at what he had to work with over the years.
Best oline in the league.
Qb that was a 1st overall.
Plax, toomer, Nicks, Cruz, SSmith, MM. Bennett
Bradshaw, Jacobs, Ward, Wilson.

OCs would kill to have that kind talent

Mara shit on him on the way out