brewer looked serviceable at both R and LT in preseason
i would also add that even though schwartz struggles at RT he may still be better than pugh there.
The only true value coming from putting James Brewer on the field Sunday night is that his performance will hopefully get him cut and off this team forever...
And he was playing on the outside in 3 WR sets (which is basically our base formation) while Cruz was in the slot. Don't really understand that comment.
OBJ would be a number 3 receiver if Cruz did not get injured. Read the sequence of the messages in the thread. Point over, move along. No reason to derail the thread.
You don't think Beckham would have played save for the Cruz injury? You don't think Coughlin was spitting nickels about Beckham's hamstring keeping him off the field? And I guess Nicks didn't play as a rookie or Randle for that matter. Just because some of you keep saying the same inaccurate, not-supported-by-facts stuff about Coughlin/rookies over and over and over doesn't make it true.
Reese brings in a vet C in Walton and drafts the top C in Richburg. He signs the best FA RG on the market and brings in Jerry and still has Mosely and Brewer for 1 spot.
Coach puts FA RG at LG, begins off season with son in law at RG, who was not a long term solution and then replaces him with Jerry. Does not have Richburg compete for C job. Still does nothing with Mosley and Brewer.
and should move on, even though you are continuing the argument?
Bottom line - Beckham missed 4 games because he was hurt. He played in the first game he was eligible and that happened to be the same game Cruz went down. It is/was quite clear he was going to be the #3 WR (possibly #2) once he got his feet wet. Cruz' injury only sped this up by about a week.
you said OBJ was playing the "second he was healthy" which is wrong as usual on your behalf. He started the game as the 4th receiver behind Parker and Parker was terrible and OBJ made a few plays that electrified the home fans and forced his way on the field for more snaps in the 2nd half.
To the other poster, the point is really simple. OBJ would be the Giants 3rd receiver if Cruz were healthy and yes he would be a guy that showed flashes, but not a guy that has demonstrated in Victor's absence to be a bonafide go to receiver.
No way we would not have seen that since OBJ would still be behind Randle in the rotation, regardless of his falshes of brilliance. Put the thread back on track.
Richberg behind Walton makes zero sense.
Arcasenal go play with someone else, stop trolling on my posts.
Even though the first game he was healthy enough to play, he was playing from the opening snap and was targeted more than Preston Parker.
Read the transcripts from the time right before OBJ returned. Coughlin specifically said he would be playing immediately and he would have as much on his plate as he could handle. That's exactly what happened.
If Cruz never got hurt, Beckham would still be starting on the outside opposite Randle.
Beckham was on the field the first game he was healthy, he was targeted, he scored, he turned heads immediately.
This notion that no one would have known what he were capable of if not for Cruz going down is utter nonsense.
McAdoo and Coughlin were pining to get him back but they weren't going to use him? Sure.. makes sense.
You have absolutely no way of proving that Beckham would never have seen the field in 2 WR sets and quite frankly, if you think that would have been the case, you were just not paying any attention to anything that was said by the coaches.
I'm done arguing with you.
Well . . . you also have to remember that not only did Cruz
have to go down before Beckham started getting looks, but Jerrel Jernigan being lost for the season was also a factor.
It was either gonna be Beckham or Corey Washington being thrown out there in 3WR sets, and I think we know by now how the coaches feel about giving Washington any snaps.
our O-line is the worst in the league or close to it, and one of our top draft picks last year cannot play well enough to crack even our sub par lineup?
Pugh is and now Richburg (my guess) seems to be injured. Richburg's ankle (or whatever) must be pretty bad. They can't play or they would be playing. These are two stand-up guys. No doubt each is willing to try to do whatever it is the Giants want them to do, but it is obvious, in the case of Pugh, and must be obvious now in the case of Richburg, that they can't be put out there in their current condition without real risk.
What should Eli make of all this? Nothing good. People are going to be coming after him hard. Get rid of the ball fast, all the time. It isn't about winning. It's about surviving. It isn't going to be pretty.
A blind coach could look at Beckham in practice and know that he'd be getting on the field as soon as he was healthy. This notion that he wouldn't see playing until (behind Parker) until Cruz got hurt is one of the stupidest things I've read here.
Second, with Richburg, it's likely that he can do the job at center physically. What's possible, though, is that they believe he can't make the calls at the position now that a veteran center can do and none of the interior linemen can do that either.
Is right. You guys aren't understanding what he is saying at all.
He isn't saying that anyone is beyond criticism. He is saying that it's easy to make bold statements based on 1/10,000th of the information available to front office staff, coaches and training staff. What if I told you that Richburg's ankle flared up or is a real issue? Remember that beat writers aren't going to get all of the info. We may not know but everyone is making assumptions.
It's basically like me saying...ok solve this equation. You argue and argue that your answer is right. Then I tell you the guy who you are arguing with had access to 2 constant variables that you didn't. Would you still be so confident?
It's ok to be critical. Especially on a fan message board. But I would say between 80-90% of the posts on this topic and in general when it comes to things like this are way over the top, sweeping, and borderline hilarious.
With all of the shifts that are going on on the OL all at once, might it just make sense not to use this particular game to replace the starting center with a rookie center who has had zero opportunity to play there as yet? Might the brain trust want to keep stability at the line calling position for a game or two, and then perhaps turn to Richburg once Snyder and Schwartz have had time to get acquainted?
Or in your minds, does it make sense to give a rookie his first pt at center at the same time as two other OL positions are getting new players, so that three spots would have to be shifted at one time including a rookie line-caller in his first game at center?
it just seems nutty to me to think that OBJ would have been held hostage to some formalized "rotation." Surely the coaches saw in practice what they/we are seeing in games. Does Randle show that? Um, no. Even with Cruz healthy, OBJ is by far the greatest deep threat, and along with Cruz, one of the two wrs that usually requires a double team. When does Randle require a double team? Parker?
In 2 wr sets, OBJ would have been on the field with Cruz in short order once he got healthy.
RE: Richburg also needs to play Center. As Eric said in the preview
Will now have almost 680 pounds on the right side now if we spend the game running left then WTH do we know. This team has always make these types of moves for years so once again it's a wait and see thing. Sure we would all like to see what Mosley, Brewer and Richburg at center look like but it's a team secret. We have kept these guys for several years and yet a hurt street corner OL can in and start before either one of them does confuse us all.
I expect Moore to play more since Kiwi is hurt but he needs to show more than what he has to this point.
This line has been wretched since day one, but here we are 10 games in and the seasons down the drain and the line is now being shuffled. Oh well, hopefully they get it right next year.
With Pugh out or at least struggling to the point where he shouldn't be starting this week, someone had to play RT. If Schwartz is the best available lineman, then either he starts at RT or he starts at RG and Jerry moves to RT. Short term, better to plug in Schwartz at RT than to move Jerry to RT so Schwartz can play RG. Neither of them has played RT in a game this year, but Schwartz hasn't played RG this year either.
Richburg is a different problem. He may be injured or just beat up (or both) and his effectiveness has declined to the point where a change had to be made.
The owners and coaches had a meeting and decided to throw in the towel and go for draft picks and 2015. Rest the starters playing injured so they'll be in good shape for 2015. take the loss and move up in the draft. JR needs all the help he can get when it comes to good draft picks!
I was willing to bet we win this game but now I have to reverse that bet.
you'd know how anxious TC was to get the injured Beckham on the field. The remark that he would never have been on the field without Cruz's injury is absolutely ridiculous and frankly STUPID!
And speaking of stupid, the whole BBI myth about TC not playing Rookies is just as stupid!
is wore out. It happens to a lot of rookies when they are pressed into full time service. Compare the college schedule to the pro schedule and you can see how it happens to so many rookies.
Plus, we had an extra pre-season game.
Couple the fatigue factor with a nicked up ankle and it's no wonder he's slipped some.
you'd know how anxious TC was to get the injured Beckham on the field. The remark that he would never have been on the field without Cruz's injury is absolutely ridiculous and frankly STUPID!
And speaking of stupid, the whole BBI myth about TC not playing Rookies is just as stupid!
Eh . . . I'm sure TC wanted him to be healthy so that he can contribute, but what he was anxious about was mostly getting reporters to finally stop asking him about injured Beckham.
which you turned into Brewer and Snyder, and then criticized him for what he didn't say?
No, actually, YOU win post of the week.
No, you win for over-reaction of the week. Neither are tackles that should start or even backup for NFL games. Whether they are in at once or at the same time.
"Again, I agree that Jerry sucks and probably shouldnt be playing, but im interested on seeing how Schwartz plays at RT. [/quote]"
This is the worst offensive line the Giants have had since the 70s. I am glad to see any change because it cannot make the line worse & perhaps will improve things. Schwartz, even on one toe, will not be any more of a sieve than Brown. Also, why not give Snyder an opportunity? Richberg might need to sit for a while & perhaps his confidence will return. I have been quite critical of the rigidity of the coaches, refusing to to try other players. I regard these moves as a reasonable attempt to improve things.
Perhaps they will even rediscover a certain 6'4" rookie WR and throw fades to him when they reach the red zone. I have noticed that even if he does not know the routes as the coaches claim, he has caught every pass he gets his hands on, unlike Randle & the TEs. So, do not get your knickers in a twist Giant fans. Just take a deep breath & hope for the best.
Get Richburg to C god dammit. Walton is the weak link game in and game out. If Pugh the suck comes back, put him at RG. I'm not crazy about Snyder but it's clear that's a TC move, he likes big bodied guys inside.
i would also add that even though schwartz struggles at RT he may still be better than pugh there.
The only true value coming from putting James Brewer on the field Sunday night is that his performance will hopefully get him cut and off this team forever...
Again if Cruz did not get injured, no one would no what OBJ was really capable of.
TC would have kept him as a 3rd receiver and OBJ would have showed "flashes", rather than what he really is, a young bonafide superstar WR.
OBJ would be stuck behind Randle in TC's "rotation". Some beat reporter should clarfy the criteria of TC's "rotation" order.
Probably starts with time of service as priority, I am sure.
Just simply amazing that the Giants went thru this same shit 365 days ago and we are no better off in these positions...
Again if Cruz did not get injured, no one would no what OBJ was really capable of.
TC would have kept him as a 3rd receiver and OBJ would have showed "flashes", rather than what he really is, a young bonafide superstar WR.
OBJ would be stuck behind Randle in TC's "rotation". Some beat reporter should clarfy the criteria of TC's "rotation" order.
Probably starts with time of service as priority, I am sure.
Huh? The only reason Beckham didn't play prior was his injury. At worst, he would be the #3 WR if Cruz were still healthy right now.
Richberg should not be sitting behind Walton.
Whos is this arrogant a$$? Talk down to people much?
Yeah, that's how he caught that TD pass in the 4th quarter. Because he only played a "handful of snaps in the 1st half"
Just stop. You sound like a fool.
Coach puts FA RG at LG, begins off season with son in law at RG, who was not a long term solution and then replaces him with Jerry. Does not have Richburg compete for C job. Still does nothing with Mosley and Brewer.
Does the coaching staff get any blame
Bottom line - Beckham missed 4 games because he was hurt. He played in the first game he was eligible and that happened to be the same game Cruz went down. It is/was quite clear he was going to be the #3 WR (possibly #2) once he got his feet wet. Cruz' injury only sped this up by about a week.
To the other poster, the point is really simple. OBJ would be the Giants 3rd receiver if Cruz were healthy and yes he would be a guy that showed flashes, but not a guy that has demonstrated in Victor's absence to be a bonafide go to receiver.
No way we would not have seen that since OBJ would still be behind Randle in the rotation, regardless of his falshes of brilliance. Put the thread back on track.
Richberg behind Walton makes zero sense.
Arcasenal go play with someone else, stop trolling on my posts.
Read the transcripts from the time right before OBJ returned. Coughlin specifically said he would be playing immediately and he would have as much on his plate as he could handle. That's exactly what happened.
If Cruz never got hurt, Beckham would still be starting on the outside opposite Randle.
Thanks for your wonderful insight again, you make my point!
Playing opposite Randle doesn't mean "behind" him.
Our base offense in this system is 3WR. There are two receivers on the outside and one in the slot.
OBJ was pegged to start on the outside along with Randle and Cruz was to primarily play the slot.
So, no.. I'm not proving your point. You're wrong.
3 WR set set would have been Randle - Cruz - OBJ
That's a 3rd receiver tag for OBJ.
Just stop the nonsense already, plesae you are painful man on semantics. Good night, I am out.
This notion that no one would have known what he were capable of if not for Cruz going down is utter nonsense.
McAdoo and Coughlin were pining to get him back but they weren't going to use him? Sure.. makes sense.
You have absolutely no way of proving that Beckham would never have seen the field in 2 WR sets and quite frankly, if you think that would have been the case, you were just not paying any attention to anything that was said by the coaches.
I'm done arguing with you.
It was either gonna be Beckham or Corey Washington being thrown out there in 3WR sets, and I think we know by now how the coaches feel about giving Washington any snaps.
What should Eli make of all this? Nothing good. People are going to be coming after him hard. Get rid of the ball fast, all the time. It isn't about winning. It's about surviving. It isn't going to be pretty.
...And our base set is a 3-WR set...
Wouldn't that make OBJ a starter?
What point are you trying to make?
Second, with Richburg, it's likely that he can do the job at center physically. What's possible, though, is that they believe he can't make the calls at the position now that a veteran center can do and none of the interior linemen can do that either.
He isn't saying that anyone is beyond criticism. He is saying that it's easy to make bold statements based on 1/10,000th of the information available to front office staff, coaches and training staff. What if I told you that Richburg's ankle flared up or is a real issue? Remember that beat writers aren't going to get all of the info. We may not know but everyone is making assumptions.
It's basically like me saying...ok solve this equation. You argue and argue that your answer is right. Then I tell you the guy who you are arguing with had access to 2 constant variables that you didn't. Would you still be so confident?
It's ok to be critical. Especially on a fan message board. But I would say between 80-90% of the posts on this topic and in general when it comes to things like this are way over the top, sweeping, and borderline hilarious.
Or in your minds, does it make sense to give a rookie his first pt at center at the same time as two other OL positions are getting new players, so that three spots would have to be shifted at one time including a rookie line-caller in his first game at center?
Not to me it doesn't.
In 2 wr sets, OBJ would have been on the field with Cruz in short order once he got healthy.
Exactament!
I expect Moore to play more since Kiwi is hurt but he needs to show more than what he has to this point.
The new Line should be Beatty , Schwartz, Richburg, Jerry and Brewer or Snyder
The new Line should be Beatty , Schwartz, Richburg, Jerry and Brewer or Snyder
Brewer and Snyder at Tackle? I think I would go with a 6 WR set and no tackles before I did that.
Congrats....you win easily for the best post of the week.
No, actually, YOU win post of the week.
I'm actually ok with the reshuffle. We've got 11 OL, and things aren't working as currently construed. Time to try something else.
Richburg is a different problem. He may be injured or just beat up (or both) and his effectiveness has declined to the point where a change had to be made.
I was willing to bet we win this game but now I have to reverse that bet.
Tough to expect him to play C without taking any meaningful reps at that position all season. Ankle might be an issue as well.
And speaking of stupid, the whole BBI myth about TC not playing Rookies is just as stupid!
Plus, we had an extra pre-season game.
Couple the fatigue factor with a nicked up ankle and it's no wonder he's slipped some.
And speaking of stupid, the whole BBI myth about TC not playing Rookies is just as stupid!
Eh . . . I'm sure TC wanted him to be healthy so that he can contribute, but what he was anxious about was mostly getting reporters to finally stop asking him about injured Beckham.
No, actually, YOU win post of the week.
No, you win for over-reaction of the week. Neither are tackles that should start or even backup for NFL games. Whether they are in at once or at the same time.
Now calm down.
RT.
"Again, I agree that Jerry sucks and probably shouldnt be playing, but im interested on seeing how Schwartz plays at RT. [/quote]"
This is the worst offensive line the Giants have had since the 70s. I am glad to see any change because it cannot make the line worse & perhaps will improve things. Schwartz, even on one toe, will not be any more of a sieve than Brown. Also, why not give Snyder an opportunity? Richberg might need to sit for a while & perhaps his confidence will return. I have been quite critical of the rigidity of the coaches, refusing to to try other players. I regard these moves as a reasonable attempt to improve things.
Perhaps they will even rediscover a certain 6'4" rookie WR and throw fades to him when they reach the red zone. I have noticed that even if he does not know the routes as the coaches claim, he has caught every pass he gets his hands on, unlike Randle & the TEs. So, do not get your knickers in a twist Giant fans. Just take a deep breath & hope for the best.
Really need to start seeing more positives that this franchise can build around other than Eli (and maybe Beckham).