Eric - you started a thread earlier in the week that he should be benched. I'm sure you were looking at the line and zeroing in on who wasn't performing.
If we are evaluating correctly.......then it's time for TC to go with this change.
1) they don't perform In practice which is a glorified walk through... and is stuck behind a terrible football player but great citizen. however he is a bright spot on special teams where he actually gets consistent PT. hmmmm... give the guy confidence in a spot and he performs.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
who was on the bench to replace Snee and Diehl? Mitch Petrus? Brewer?
Defensive coaches keep saying Moore is messing up in run defense. 3 out of 4 last opponents have been heavy run teams. Moore played more against Colts.
Thank you!!! I can't believe how many posters act as if they had the 7 blocks of granite in waiting on the bench. They had (have) shit! Snee and Diehl did their best and gave everything they had left. It's not their fault that Reese and co. didn't draft or acquire adequate replacements. It was already apparent in the 2011 SB drive that the OL was on fumes.
Maybe the Giants see Schwartz as the future RT next year
Then Reese and Ross need to be shown the fucking door along with everyone else in the scouting department.
How many top round guys can you possibly draft who do not contribute a thing to your roster. Wilson and Jones are bad luck but when you throw them in with Austin, Holsey, Jernnigan, Brewer, Robinson, Dillard, Sintim and Barden the top four rounds of our drafts for the previous years have been a colossal disaster.
be clear, I'm not calling Richburg a bust...but I've shown in recent game reviews where he has screwed up too. In other words, he hasn't been "good". Was he as bad as Jerry last week? No way. But he didn't play well either.
Richburg is going to have to play a lot better in 2015 to justify his 2nd round selection.
And Moore has yet to make any impact plays in the snaps he has received. I think he had 18 against the 49ers. Something like 25 against Colts. He hardly played in Seattle.
and head coach don't know how to develop players. I thinks this is more of the problem.
Funny the same guys developed Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara as starters, and made Kevin Boothe into a useful backup and plugged in guys like Shawn Andrews at different times successfully. Wouldn't be that those guys were better players would it?
1) they don't perform In practice which is a glorified walk through... and is stuck behind a terrible football player but great citizen. however he is a bright spot on special teams where he actually gets consistent PT. hmmmm... give the guy confidence in a spot and he performs.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
Exactly. How much can you learn about and offensive lineman in practice when they don't even practice in pads anymore? They benched Jernigan and when he finally played he actually showed some promise.
How anyone can defend these types of moves - which happen every year - is totally beyond me.
And Snee's backups may have sucked but Snee was playing when he COULD NOT MOVE because of his hip. So don't give me the BS that he was better than his backups....we put a damn cripple out there out of pure loyalty. Same shit with Diehl.
by any means, but part of his problem and what makes him look even worse than he normally is, is how terrible and confused Justin Pugh has looked this year.
1) they don't perform In practice which is a glorified walk through... and is stuck behind a terrible football player but great citizen. however he is a bright spot on special teams where he actually gets consistent PT. hmmmm... give the guy confidence in a spot and he performs.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
Exactly. How much can you learn about and offensive lineman in practice when they don't even practice in pads anymore? They benched Jernigan and when he finally played he actually showed some promise.
How anyone can defend these types of moves - which happen every year - is totally beyond me.
And Snee's backups may have sucked but Snee was playing when he COULD NOT MOVE because of his hip. So don't give me the BS that he was better than his backups....we put a damn cripple out there out of pure loyalty. Same shit with Diehl.
Same shit with O'Hara too, when he looked like he was blocking on skates. Don't blame the players, they're out there playing hurt, it is ultimately up to the coach to not put them in those situations. Again, everyone wants to push Reese out the door...maybe the coaches are failing to develop the talent we're drafting?
1) they don't perform In practice which is a glorified walk through... and is stuck behind a terrible football player but great citizen. however he is a bright spot on special teams where he actually gets consistent PT. hmmmm... give the guy confidence in a spot and he performs.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
Exactly. How much can you learn about and offensive lineman in practice when they don't even practice in pads anymore? They benched Jernigan and when he finally played he actually showed some promise.
How anyone can defend these types of moves - which happen every year - is totally beyond me.
And Snee's backups may have sucked but Snee was playing when he COULD NOT MOVE because of his hip. So don't give me the BS that he was better than his backups....we put a damn cripple out there out of pure loyalty. Same shit with Diehl.
That's idiotic. No NFL coach is going to play anybody out of loyalty if he has a better, healthier, younger option in place. You're saying that Brewer and Moseley were better? They can't even get a uniform when John fucking Jerry is starting and Charles Fucking Brown replaces Pugh. Dallas Reynolds? Mitch Petrus? Please.
but given I disagree with everything they are doing... its the one "hope" I can have that would come from what is just terrible management of talent evaluation.
i.e. not even giving yourself a chance to evaluate guys at their potential position
when you bring up Moseley and brewer... or past experiences....
this is about richburg not playing center this year... and Walton sucking at football...
and moore getting no legit consistent snaps.... while kiwi sucks at football...
Mosley and Brewer are brought up because others are saying that Coughlin wouldn't bench Snee. Maybe he would not have had he had a great alternative, but it does not appear he had ANY alternative.
Why in the world are giving him a shot. He will make the late stages of Diehl look like Larry Allen.
How did Mosely go from potential starter in camp and not looking terrible (better than Schwartz) to getting injured to not even able to sniff the field once healthy?
my response to that regarding Moore is
1. can we really 100% trust the judgement of this staff based on there past decisions?
2. Judging how poorly the run defense has been, can Moore really be that much worse?
He may as well be out there getting experience.
I am in agreement with you there...
im saying people making my argument for the current move are diminishing their case bringing up Moseley and brewer who are not 2nd round picks with a guy playing in front of them who has ZERO connection to the giants and is bad at football
With Pugh's status in doubt for Sunday you need Schwartz to play RT. If we had a healthy Pugh this weekend, it is just as likely that Snyder replaces Richburgh, and Schwartz replaces Jerry, giving you a starting OL of Beatty, Snyder, Walton, Jerry, and Schwartz.
Sure Richburgh is the future at OC and Guard is not his best position, but I can't blame the coaching staff for not wanting to leave the OL calls to a rookie OC. Eric's point is also a good one. Richburg has nearly played a full college student in full time duty at Guard, he might need a breather.
Yet they never use him on the edge or even a delayed blitz.
If I was fewell this week I do what Washington did to Dallas and blitz guys off the edge on both sides of Romo.
my response to that regarding Moore is
1. can we really 100% trust the judgement of this staff based on there past decisions?
2. Judging how poorly the run defense has been, can Moore really be that much worse?
He may as well be out there getting experience.
I think the coaching staff's ability to evaluate talent is better than we give them credit for. Name a player they gave up on that went on to do bigger and better things. Bradshaw doesn't count, he was an injury/CAP cut. Most of the players the Giants let walk are now out of the league.
Yeah PEEJ, but Schwartz never played LG in his life. He is a
Yet they never use him on the edge or even a delayed blitz.
If I was fewell this week I do what Washington did to Dallas and blitz guys off the edge on both sides of Romo.
I'm confused by this...how do you blitz your LDE or RDE? Moore is not a LB.
is just admitting that they watch football but have no idea what they're seeing. Those two have been awful at every turn. They've had opportunities and every level of management practically begging for them to seize those opportunities and they remain on the bench and that's more than they deserve.
I think he might be 'safer' but I doubt he is better.
Same with Moore. I think he's more likely to make a mistake and make a play. At some point the staff has to stop coaching scared now.
I would say that most coaching staff's are this way. The #1 rule for most football teams when evaluating play is that they don't make mistakes. Having a great athlete doesn't get you anywhere if they block the wrong guy or run the wrong route. It's easy for us fans to call for the guy with the better 40 time or greater big play ability, but if the guy is only in the right position 3 plays out of 10 that's not good enough. I understand the frustration with this "conservative" coaching staff, but their decisions are based on practice performance and logic, not what if.
Eric - you started a thread earlier in the week that he should be benched. I'm sure you were looking at the line and zeroing in on who wasn't performing.
If we are evaluating correctly.......then it's time for TC to go with this change.
Something isn't right.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
Defensive coaches keep saying Moore is messing up in run defense. 3 out of 4 last opponents have been heavy run teams. Moore played more against Colts.
Thank you!!! I can't believe how many posters act as if they had the 7 blocks of granite in waiting on the bench. They had (have) shit! Snee and Diehl did their best and gave everything they had left. It's not their fault that Reese and co. didn't draft or acquire adequate replacements. It was already apparent in the 2011 SB drive that the OL was on fumes.
How many top round guys can you possibly draft who do not contribute a thing to your roster. Wilson and Jones are bad luck but when you throw them in with Austin, Holsey, Jernnigan, Brewer, Robinson, Dillard, Sintim and Barden the top four rounds of our drafts for the previous years have been a colossal disaster.
Richburg is going to have to play a lot better in 2015 to justify his 2nd round selection.
And Moore has yet to make any impact plays in the snaps he has received. I think he had 18 against the 49ers. Something like 25 against Colts. He hardly played in Seattle.
Funny the same guys developed Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara as starters, and made Kevin Boothe into a useful backup and plugged in guys like Shawn Andrews at different times successfully. Wouldn't be that those guys were better players would it?
not likely... but the only positive I can see.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
Exactly. How much can you learn about and offensive lineman in practice when they don't even practice in pads anymore? They benched Jernigan and when he finally played he actually showed some promise.
How anyone can defend these types of moves - which happen every year - is totally beyond me.
And Snee's backups may have sucked but Snee was playing when he COULD NOT MOVE because of his hip. So don't give me the BS that he was better than his backups....we put a damn cripple out there out of pure loyalty. Same shit with Diehl.
My take-away from this is this:
"We're really going to try to run the football like crazy on Sunday night."
All that guard stuff can work itself out. Doesn't matter how ugly its in the short term
I consider myself an o-line enthusiast and these moves are driving me nuts.
Saving grace? Demarcus Ware is not on the Cowboys. Dallas doesn't rush the passer all that well.
Quote:
1) they don't perform In practice which is a glorified walk through... and is stuck behind a terrible football player but great citizen. however he is a bright spot on special teams where he actually gets consistent PT. hmmmm... give the guy confidence in a spot and he performs.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
Exactly. How much can you learn about and offensive lineman in practice when they don't even practice in pads anymore? They benched Jernigan and when he finally played he actually showed some promise.
How anyone can defend these types of moves - which happen every year - is totally beyond me.
And Snee's backups may have sucked but Snee was playing when he COULD NOT MOVE because of his hip. So don't give me the BS that he was better than his backups....we put a damn cripple out there out of pure loyalty. Same shit with Diehl.
Same shit with O'Hara too, when he looked like he was blocking on skates. Don't blame the players, they're out there playing hurt, it is ultimately up to the coach to not put them in those situations. Again, everyone wants to push Reese out the door...maybe the coaches are failing to develop the talent we're drafting?
Quote:
1) they don't perform In practice which is a glorified walk through... and is stuck behind a terrible football player but great citizen. however he is a bright spot on special teams where he actually gets consistent PT. hmmmm... give the guy confidence in a spot and he performs.
2) plays guard when hes a center... fantastic.
I would not care if the guys ahead of them were somewhat solid. both might be the worst at their positions in ALL of football.
Exactly. How much can you learn about and offensive lineman in practice when they don't even practice in pads anymore? They benched Jernigan and when he finally played he actually showed some promise.
How anyone can defend these types of moves - which happen every year - is totally beyond me.
And Snee's backups may have sucked but Snee was playing when he COULD NOT MOVE because of his hip. So don't give me the BS that he was better than his backups....we put a damn cripple out there out of pure loyalty. Same shit with Diehl.
That's idiotic. No NFL coach is going to play anybody out of loyalty if he has a better, healthier, younger option in place. You're saying that Brewer and Moseley were better? They can't even get a uniform when John fucking Jerry is starting and Charles Fucking Brown replaces Pugh. Dallas Reynolds? Mitch Petrus? Please.
i.e. not even giving yourself a chance to evaluate guys at their potential position
this is about richburg not playing center this year... and Walton sucking at football...
and moore getting no legit consistent snaps.... while kiwi sucks at football...
nothing more nothing less.
How did Mosely go from potential starter in camp and not looking terrible (better than Schwartz) to getting injured to not even able to sniff the field once healthy?
1. can we really 100% trust the judgement of this staff based on there past decisions?
2. Judging how poorly the run defense has been, can Moore really be that much worse?
He may as well be out there getting experience.
im saying people making my argument for the current move are diminishing their case bringing up Moseley and brewer who are not 2nd round picks with a guy playing in front of them who has ZERO connection to the giants and is bad at football
so on that I fully agree with you
Sure Richburgh is the future at OC and Guard is not his best position, but I can't blame the coaching staff for not wanting to leave the OL calls to a rookie OC. Eric's point is also a good one. Richburg has nearly played a full college student in full time duty at Guard, he might need a breather.
If I was fewell this week I do what Washington did to Dallas and blitz guys off the edge on both sides of Romo.
1. can we really 100% trust the judgement of this staff based on there past decisions?
2. Judging how poorly the run defense has been, can Moore really be that much worse?
He may as well be out there getting experience.
I think the coaching staff's ability to evaluate talent is better than we give them credit for. Name a player they gave up on that went on to do bigger and better things. Bradshaw doesn't count, he was an injury/CAP cut. Most of the players the Giants let walk are now out of the league.
Snyder is obviously better than Mosley. Not a good sign
If I was fewell this week I do what Washington did to Dallas and blitz guys off the edge on both sides of Romo.
I'm confused by this...how do you blitz your LDE or RDE? Moore is not a LB.
Quote:
Why Snyder over Mosley?
Snyder is obviously better than Mosley. Not a good sign
There is nothing obvious about this if you paid attention in preseason prior to Mosely getting dinged.
Good to see Schwartz go to RT, where he's played before. Hopefully, he'll show that he's a mauler, as a RT should be.
Shows how bad Brown, Brewer, Mosley and Reynolds are when Walton and Jerry are still starting.
Reese and Ross should be ashamed of themselves for putting such a terrible OL in front of Eli.
Same with Moore. I think he's more likely to make a mistake and make a play. At some point the staff has to stop coaching scared now.
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In comment 11990606 spike said:
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Why Snyder over Mosley?
Snyder is obviously better than Mosley. Not a good sign
There is nothing obvious about this if you paid attention in preseason prior to Mosely getting dinged.
I did, Mosley did nothing to impress.
Same with Moore. I think he's more likely to make a mistake and make a play. At some point the staff has to stop coaching scared now.
I would say that most coaching staff's are this way. The #1 rule for most football teams when evaluating play is that they don't make mistakes. Having a great athlete doesn't get you anywhere if they block the wrong guy or run the wrong route. It's easy for us fans to call for the guy with the better 40 time or greater big play ability, but if the guy is only in the right position 3 plays out of 10 that's not good enough. I understand the frustration with this "conservative" coaching staff, but their decisions are based on practice performance and logic, not what if.