is just admitting that they watch football but have no idea what they're seeing. Those two have been awful at every turn. They've had opportunities and every level of management practically begging for them to seize those opportunities and they remain on the bench and that's more than they deserve.
Agree 100%! Mosely and Brewer have been given ample opportunity to take jobs but have fallen flat on their faces. The fact that Mosley cannot unseat Jerry, and was beaten out by a rookie playing out of position tells you all you need to know.
First, they signed Schwartz to play RG and they have a terrible player currently at that position. The logical thing to do would be to play him there. Second, they have a RT in Brewer who they were, at least at one time, high on. Let him play RT. They can't possibly get worse play from him than they did from Brown last week. Lastly they drafted Richburg to be their OC and their current OC is playing awfully. Again, the logical thing to do would play Richburg at OC now. Personally, I don't think he has been all that bad at LG, so he is the odd choice to bench.
^This. Totally agree. And as someone said, Stork, Martin, and the GB center are all starting as rookies. It is unreal to leave JJ and Walton in the lineup, play Schwartz out of position, and not give Brewer one final chance.
They're not going to change those evaluations anytime soon.
Mathias has lost snaps to Ayers. Kiwi is the starter in name only at this point.
If you are a coach, you can't say practice performances means zilch. Practice is where you prepare players for Sunday, where they show you that they can execute a game plan. Do things like not be out of position and continually fall for the read option. If you are a coach, practice is all you had. Coughlin and company are still fighting for wins and fighting to show some unit progression. If individual players want to get more playing time, they need to earn it. You don't get opportunities based on potential int he regular season, that's for training camp.
Why the hell are they playing all these guys out of position?
can defend this. THIS IS ON COACHING. Coughlin has no idea how to shuffle lineups anymore, has failed in that area for more than a few seasons.
This team's brain trust is beyond fucked right now, from "talent" acquisition to coaching it up and deploying it. No one is getting it done, no free passes to be had for either TC or JR.
Both of them should be done here, even if at least one won't be.
He's not capable? Why are other rookie centers across the league making line calls for their teams?
I don't get it.
We saw on on Sunday with the 49ers Marcus Martin, who was just drafted a few months ago in the 3rd round and pressed into action due to injury to their regular center.
I get benching Richburg if his ankle is still hurt and he is worn out. But Synder? Holy shit. Go with:
Beatty-Mosley-Walton-Schwartz-Brewer.
People saying that we shouldn't play Mosley and Brewer are wrong IMO. Brewer at least showed something at tackle on occasion, and the same for Mosley last year before he broke his hand. Guard is also the natural position for Schwartz.
Reese has really screwed up the OL. I am also concerned about Moore. His inability to get on the field, especially given how bad Kiwi has played is as concerning as the inability of Brewer and Mosley to replace Jerry and Snyder.
works out. We'll then have both Richburg and Pugh, #1 and #2 picks, riding the bench. Way to build through the draft, guys. If this isn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight, I don't know who is.
The limited play Mosley had last year was better than Jerry. Honestly we have no idea what they offer because the coaching staff will put a complete washout in Snyder in and take the R out, who is part of the future.
This is just not good coaching - what purpose does this serve.
Maybe 1 of our guys can go the Alex Boone route - undrafted in 09, practice squad in 09, inactive all of 2010, no play in 2011. 1st action in 2012 and is a good player. Or they will never even get a chance
They're not going to change those evaluations anytime soon.
Mathias has lost snaps to Ayers. Kiwi is the starter in name only at this point.
If you are a coach, you can't say practice performances means zilch. Practice is where you prepare players for Sunday, where they show you that they can execute a game plan. Do things like not be out of position and continually fall for the read option. If you are a coach, practice is all you had. Coughlin and company are still fighting for wins and fighting to show some unit progression. If individual players want to get more playing time, they need to earn it. You don't get opportunities based on potential int he regular season, that's for training camp.
This is not true.
Last week (vs SF):
Kiwi played 43 out of 68 snaps
Ayers played 39 out of 68 snaps
@ Seattle
Kiwi: 42 out of 65
Ayers: 32 out of 64
vs Colts
Kiwi: 58 out of 76
Ayers: 46 out of 76
@ Dallas
Kiwi: 57 out of 63
Ayers: 20 out of 63
@ Eagles
Kiwi: 56 out of 73
Ayers: 31 out of 73
vs Atlanta
Kiwi: 58 out of 72
Ayers: 39 out of 72
I'm not going back further, but Kiwi's snaps have been pretty consistent as have Ayers, but if Ayers have increased it's not at Kiwi's expense unfortunately.
IMO, however, he's not big, doesn't have a quick first step and is not very strong and has no moves nor, apparently, much of a motor- once he's stopped at the LOS, that's it, he's completely stopped. Not saying he's terrible but he has a lot to learn, needs to bulk up and get stronger but IMO no way he should have been drafted in the 3d Round.
Actually, I'd like to see what Kerry Wynn can do- an UDFA rookie who's bigger, stronger, faster and quicker than Moore. Would like to see if Wynn has a motor and/or moves.
is just admitting that they watch football but have no idea what they're seeing. Those two have been awful at every turn. They've had opportunities and every level of management practically begging for them to seize those opportunities and they remain on the bench and that's more than they deserve.
Then the only question to ask after that is why do they still remain on the roster?
Here are two guys playing in their 3rd and 4th seasons with their originally drafted team, who have not been active for a game all season, being leapfrogged by a guy who was acquired off the street just 3+ months ago.
The coaching staff clearly has no use for those players at all, and they have been with these guys everyday of their careers. That should tell us everything we need to know about the decayed state of this roster.
I understand why and I don't think that's any indication of his future, but aside from that one mean, nasty hit against the eagles that drew a 15 yard flag, people really overstate this kid.
Walton has been ok at center, he's had his moments, but I can't imagine that the smart play would be to put Richburg at center in week 12 of the season, especially when Walton has been serviceable.
Pugh and Jerry have been atrocious and need to see the bench.
IMO, however, he's not big, doesn't have a quick first step and is not very strong and has no moves nor, apparently, much of a motor- once he's stopped at the LOS, that's it, he's completely stopped. Not saying he's terrible but he has a lot to learn, needs to bulk up and get stronger but IMO no way he should have been drafted in the 3d Round.
Actually, I'd like to see what Kerry Wynn can do- an UDFA rookie who's bigger, stronger, faster and quicker than Moore. Would like to see if Wynn has a motor and/or moves.
I'd like to see Wynn as well. Zero chance that will happen. Zero point zero. Moore was only twenty when he was drafted, so maybe he just needs more time to get stronger and fill out his frame. But if he hasn't made significant progress by this time next year, it's going to be very bad. And it already is if Brewer and Mosley really are worse than Jerry and Snyder. I'd put them out there. As I said, Brewer has at times showed something at RT, and Mosley showed a spark of promise before breaking his hand.
they are just trying to plug the leaking ship at this point, the more disturbing thing about all of this is that Brandon Mosley and James Brewer must be total garbage.
John Jerry has had decent games, but he has been dreadful in 2 or 3 contests.
So there are two more picks down the drain.
Was thinking the same thing about Moseley too. Who is evaluating these linemen? It's been beyond ridiculous. The other thing is injuries. Almost all of our linemen have been or gotten injured. I know it's part of the game, but sometimes I think we are snakebitten. The football curse of the bambino!
Sorry but in my earlier post about how bad Brown, Brewer, Mosley
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO DEVELOP YOUNG PLAYERS!!!!!! Snyder! Dude is going to be on a street corner in six months. Richburg is learning and playing well. Stupid, short sighted move.
GB said we are not resigning our starting C and instead will take out chances with a 7th rd pick. Have not looked back
NE has a R 4th rd, 6th and UDFA as their interior, went through some tough stretches, replaced a G and did not look back
NO benched Brown and put in a mid round LT last year and did not look back
The Bears said screw it and put 3 R last year and have not looked back
Philly has trotted out UDFA all over their line due to injuries and they can play and do not look back
The Giants coaches, with young guys on the bench, and a R starter, decide that a 32 yr old journeyman magically in 3 practices is a better option than Richburg. Brilliant.
though, it was against 2nd and 3rd string opposition. I will say even though he was mostly terrible when playing guard last year, he did generate decent movement in the running game. He straight flattened Dontari Poe a few times against KC last year.
I also thought Mosley looked OK in limited action late last year. Yes, he looked overmatched and lost at times this preseason, but who on our O-line didnt?
be clear, I'm not calling Richburg a bust...but I've shown in recent game reviews where he has screwed up too. In other words, he hasn't been "good". Was he as bad as Jerry last week? No way. But he didn't play well either.
Richburg is going to have to play a lot better in 2015 to justify his 2nd round selection.
Of course Richberg looks bad at times. They are playing him out of his natural position. He hasn't played guard since he was a freshman, and that was for only 2 games!
God I can't stand how these coaches keep moving players around like it's Madden. Kiwi, Sintim (though he sucked anyway) and even Rolle, highest paid safety in the NFL and we played him primarily at nickel corner. What a waste.
If it's Brewer at RT, then is Reese giving TC the command
to play Brewer threre? Brewer is a Reese/Ross pick while Schwartz and Snyder are not.
Reese trying to salvage something from his putrid OL draft picks? Let's see what happens but I bet Reese and Ross must be looking at their careers in shreds over the OL they've given Eli to play behind.
Gruden on national TV says it's "personnel" on offense and that Eli doesn't have much around him: newspapers criticizing Reese as well.
If Eli is harassed the entire game, let's see what the media says about Reese and Ross.
RE: If it's Brewer at RT, then is Reese giving TC the command
to play Brewer threre? Brewer is a Reese/Ross pick while Schwartz and Snyder are not.
Reese trying to salvage something from his putrid OL draft picks? Let's see what happens but I bet Reese and Ross must be looking at their careers in shreds over the OL they've given Eli to play behind.
Gruden on national TV says it's "personnel" on offense and that Eli doesn't have much around him: newspapers criticizing Reese as well.
If Eli is harassed the entire game, let's see what the media says about Reese and Ross.
I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with Reese "commanding" TC to do anything if his 2nd rd draft pick is taking a seat on the bench as a result.
.... Why all you fat middleaged men feel like your better at evaluating talent than professionals who have years of success at doing it. All you couch gm's are the most painful part of being a Giants fan.
All the sentiment that the season is over is fan jibberish; the coaches and players do not share thar premise nor should they. They are trying to put the best team on the field. The thought that we as fans know better the personnel than do the coaches is laughable
BBI is a great place to share opinions about our team but the tone of some posts is insufferable.
arcarsenal: Agree that Jerry has been beyond awful.
Cannot understand why he's still starting unless all the sub linemen are considered to be even worse.
The problem is that the LG/C/RG positions have been terrible for the last 5 games and Pugh is hurt. Snyder cannot be worse than Richburg and Schwartz must be better than Brown. Who, then, replaces Walton and Jerry. Reese and Ross have put TC in a position where he has no replacements for Walton and Jerry, IMO.
.... Why all you fat middleaged men feel like your better at evaluating talent than professionals who have years of success at doing it. All you couch gm's are the most painful part of being a Giants fan.
Tell me, what's the point of having a discussion board if you can't voice opinions? Have you ever watched a movie and formed an opinion on it even though you're probably not an actor, director or writer?
.... Why all you fat middleaged men feel like your better at evaluating talent than professionals who have years of success at doing it. All you couch gm's are the most painful part of being a Giants fan.
This does not get you far on BBI... and what else is a fan message board for, for fans to talk share their thoughts and opinions...
except the players we release don't go onto do anything in the NFL, while players cut by other teams sometimes do much better here.
I don't buy it. On another thread you cited Hixon (who was a rookie and a dumb cut by KC), O'Hara (a FA who started at Cleve.) and Hedgecock (FBs are the most itinerant guys in NFL). As for ex-Giants elsewhere, guys who bust out after several years with one team aren't treated like rookies. If they are 'undeveloped' they get cut.
Richberg was drafted in the 2nd round as a CENTER and has played as a rookie out of his natural position. Was he overmatched? Yes, as would most all rookie Centers asked to play Guard.
Before anyone cast any stone on this kid let him play his natural position, especially over Walton, who has clearly been overmatched as the Giants Center all year.
This team is 3-8 and going nowhere this year. Let Richberg, Mosley and some other young players get some game opportunities at their natural positions.
How can you look at his performance the last several weeks and blame it on Brown. Yes Brown played horrible. Jerry has been bad all season. No problem with Snyder playing or Schwartz at right tackle with Pugh injured. Fixes nothing with Jerry playing.
.... Why all you fat middleaged men feel like your better at evaluating talent than professionals who have years of success at doing it. All you couch gm's are the most painful part of being a Giants fan.
First of all, I'm not fat. But to your other point, which of the professionals are the smart ones- the one's making these guys high draft picks or the one's deciding they're not good enough to play?
Same with Moore. I think he's more likely to make a mistake and make a play. At some point the staff has to stop coaching scared now.
How is some nobody safer than a guy that was drafted by the team and has been a part of the program for years?
We know what Snyder is. We know what Mathias is.
They're not going to change those evaluations anytime soon.
Agree 100%! Mosely and Brewer have been given ample opportunity to take jobs but have fallen flat on their faces. The fact that Mosley cannot unseat Jerry, and was beaten out by a rookie playing out of position tells you all you need to know.
^This. Totally agree. And as someone said, Stork, Martin, and the GB center are all starting as rookies. It is unreal to leave JJ and Walton in the lineup, play Schwartz out of position, and not give Brewer one final chance.
He's not capable? Why are other rookie centers across the league making line calls for their teams?
I don't get it.
We know what Snyder is. We know what Mathias is.
They're not going to change those evaluations anytime soon.
Mathias has lost snaps to Ayers. Kiwi is the starter in name only at this point.
If you are a coach, you can't say practice performances means zilch. Practice is where you prepare players for Sunday, where they show you that they can execute a game plan. Do things like not be out of position and continually fall for the read option. If you are a coach, practice is all you had. Coughlin and company are still fighting for wins and fighting to show some unit progression. If individual players want to get more playing time, they need to earn it. You don't get opportunities based on potential int he regular season, that's for training camp.
This team's brain trust is beyond fucked right now, from "talent" acquisition to coaching it up and deploying it. No one is getting it done, no free passes to be had for either TC or JR.
Both of them should be done here, even if at least one won't be.
Just keep saying it and maybe it'll come true...I guess?
He's not capable? Why are other rookie centers across the league making line calls for their teams?
I don't get it.
We saw on on Sunday with the 49ers Marcus Martin, who was just drafted a few months ago in the 3rd round and pressed into action due to injury to their regular center.
Beatty-Mosley-Walton-Schwartz-Brewer.
People saying that we shouldn't play Mosley and Brewer are wrong IMO. Brewer at least showed something at tackle on occasion, and the same for Mosley last year before he broke his hand. Guard is also the natural position for Schwartz.
Reese has really screwed up the OL. I am also concerned about Moore. His inability to get on the field, especially given how bad Kiwi has played is as concerning as the inability of Brewer and Mosley to replace Jerry and Snyder.
Eric, you and I both predicted 3-8 six weeks ago. So we were right there. Now what do you think the final record will be?
I say: 5-11
This is just not good coaching - what purpose does this serve.
Maybe 1 of our guys can go the Alex Boone route - undrafted in 09, practice squad in 09, inactive all of 2010, no play in 2011. 1st action in 2012 and is a good player. Or they will never even get a chance
Quote:
means zilch compared to live in game performance.
We know what Snyder is. We know what Mathias is.
They're not going to change those evaluations anytime soon.
Mathias has lost snaps to Ayers. Kiwi is the starter in name only at this point.
If you are a coach, you can't say practice performances means zilch. Practice is where you prepare players for Sunday, where they show you that they can execute a game plan. Do things like not be out of position and continually fall for the read option. If you are a coach, practice is all you had. Coughlin and company are still fighting for wins and fighting to show some unit progression. If individual players want to get more playing time, they need to earn it. You don't get opportunities based on potential int he regular season, that's for training camp.
This is not true.
Last week (vs SF):
Kiwi played 43 out of 68 snaps
Ayers played 39 out of 68 snaps
@ Seattle
Kiwi: 42 out of 65
Ayers: 32 out of 64
vs Colts
Kiwi: 58 out of 76
Ayers: 46 out of 76
@ Dallas
Kiwi: 57 out of 63
Ayers: 20 out of 63
@ Eagles
Kiwi: 56 out of 73
Ayers: 31 out of 73
vs Atlanta
Kiwi: 58 out of 72
Ayers: 39 out of 72
I'm not going back further, but Kiwi's snaps have been pretty consistent as have Ayers, but if Ayers have increased it's not at Kiwi's expense unfortunately.
Actually, I'd like to see what Kerry Wynn can do- an UDFA rookie who's bigger, stronger, faster and quicker than Moore. Would like to see if Wynn has a motor and/or moves.
Then the only question to ask after that is why do they still remain on the roster?
Here are two guys playing in their 3rd and 4th seasons with their originally drafted team, who have not been active for a game all season, being leapfrogged by a guy who was acquired off the street just 3+ months ago.
The coaching staff clearly has no use for those players at all, and they have been with these guys everyday of their careers. That should tell us everything we need to know about the decayed state of this roster.
Walton has been ok at center, he's had his moments, but I can't imagine that the smart play would be to put Richburg at center in week 12 of the season, especially when Walton has been serviceable.
Pugh and Jerry have been atrocious and need to see the bench.
Actually, I'd like to see what Kerry Wynn can do- an UDFA rookie who's bigger, stronger, faster and quicker than Moore. Would like to see if Wynn has a motor and/or moves.
I'd like to see Wynn as well. Zero chance that will happen. Zero point zero. Moore was only twenty when he was drafted, so maybe he just needs more time to get stronger and fill out his frame. But if he hasn't made significant progress by this time next year, it's going to be very bad. And it already is if Brewer and Mosley really are worse than Jerry and Snyder. I'd put them out there. As I said, Brewer has at times showed something at RT, and Mosley showed a spark of promise before breaking his hand.
John Jerry has had decent games, but he has been dreadful in 2 or 3 contests.
So there are two more picks down the drain.
Was thinking the same thing about Moseley too. Who is evaluating these linemen? It's been beyond ridiculous. The other thing is injuries. Almost all of our linemen have been or gotten injured. I know it's part of the game, but sometimes I think we are snakebitten. The football curse of the bambino!
Link
Snyder playing over Mosley is just another puzzling move with the o-line in a series of several puzzling moves. Snyder fucking blows.
NE has a R 4th rd, 6th and UDFA as their interior, went through some tough stretches, replaced a G and did not look back
NO benched Brown and put in a mid round LT last year and did not look back
The Bears said screw it and put 3 R last year and have not looked back
Philly has trotted out UDFA all over their line due to injuries and they can play and do not look back
The Giants coaches, with young guys on the bench, and a R starter, decide that a 32 yr old journeyman magically in 3 practices is a better option than Richburg. Brilliant.
Brewer or Moseley better get some time now, if not, then they truely were busts which is another line of poor mark against reese and Co
I also thought Mosley looked OK in limited action late last year. Yes, he looked overmatched and lost at times this preseason, but who on our O-line didnt?
Richburg is going to have to play a lot better in 2015 to justify his 2nd round selection.
Of course Richberg looks bad at times. They are playing him out of his natural position. He hasn't played guard since he was a freshman, and that was for only 2 games!
God I can't stand how these coaches keep moving players around like it's Madden. Kiwi, Sintim (though he sucked anyway) and even Rolle, highest paid safety in the NFL and we played him primarily at nickel corner. What a waste.
Reese trying to salvage something from his putrid OL draft picks? Let's see what happens but I bet Reese and Ross must be looking at their careers in shreds over the OL they've given Eli to play behind.
Gruden on national TV says it's "personnel" on offense and that Eli doesn't have much around him: newspapers criticizing Reese as well.
If Eli is harassed the entire game, let's see what the media says about Reese and Ross.
Reese trying to salvage something from his putrid OL draft picks? Let's see what happens but I bet Reese and Ross must be looking at their careers in shreds over the OL they've given Eli to play behind.
Gruden on national TV says it's "personnel" on offense and that Eli doesn't have much around him: newspapers criticizing Reese as well.
If Eli is harassed the entire game, let's see what the media says about Reese and Ross.
I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with Reese "commanding" TC to do anything if his 2nd rd draft pick is taking a seat on the bench as a result.
But, Brewer hasn't played, so it would be easy for Reese to tell TC to play him "to see what he can do and he must be better than Brown".
Don't you find it curious that for hours we've heard that it's Schwartz at RT and now that perhaps it's Brewer. Doesn't smell fishy to you?
But, Brewer hasn't played, so it would be easy for Reese to tell TC to play him "to see what he can do and he must be better than Brown".
Don't you find it curious that for hours we've heard that it's Schwartz at RT and now that perhaps it's Brewer. Doesn't smell fishy to you?
And yet, John Jerry who has been by far the worst player on the line this year keeps his spot?
Yeah, that makes total sense.
i would also add that even though schwartz struggles at RT he may still be better than pugh there.
BBI is a great place to share opinions about our team but the tone of some posts is insufferable.
The problem is that the LG/C/RG positions have been terrible for the last 5 games and Pugh is hurt. Snyder cannot be worse than Richburg and Schwartz must be better than Brown. Who, then, replaces Walton and Jerry. Reese and Ross have put TC in a position where he has no replacements for Walton and Jerry, IMO.
Tell me, what's the point of having a discussion board if you can't voice opinions? Have you ever watched a movie and formed an opinion on it even though you're probably not an actor, director or writer?
I don't think that makes us armchair GMs, it just makes us sick of seeing the likes of Jerry, Walton and Kiwi.
This does not get you far on BBI... and what else is a fan message board for, for fans to talk share their thoughts and opinions...
I don't buy it. On another thread you cited Hixon (who was a rookie and a dumb cut by KC), O'Hara (a FA who started at Cleve.) and Hedgecock (FBs are the most itinerant guys in NFL). As for ex-Giants elsewhere, guys who bust out after several years with one team aren't treated like rookies. If they are 'undeveloped' they get cut.
Before anyone cast any stone on this kid let him play his natural position, especially over Walton, who has clearly been overmatched as the Giants Center all year.
This team is 3-8 and going nowhere this year. Let Richberg, Mosley and some other young players get some game opportunities at their natural positions.
I don't think that makes us armchair GMs, it just makes us sick of seeing the likes of Jerry, Walton and Kiwi.
Absolutely!
First of all, I'm not fat. But to your other point, which of the professionals are the smart ones- the one's making these guys high draft picks or the one's deciding they're not good enough to play?