Everything else aside, it sure would be nice...

.

And ended up with Beckham. Not a bad pick. Have to try to win every game unless we're talking an Andrew Luck draft which is very rare. Can't stand when people want to play out the string. That's not how you build a football team or a football culture.

before the house cleaners are called. An embarrassing loss to the hated cowboys on prime time at home would certainly expedite that process. Most are tired of mediocre football from this group which has been going on for a very long time. Enough.

Enough of hearing the cry..."one more year", and reminiscing about past glory. That and $2.50 gets you a cup a cold coffee and lots of empty seats.

When you turn over a substantial part of your team, and the results are even worse as a result, there has to be a reckoning. Injuries should not protect anybody's job after the dust settles, but if it does, we'll most likely be right back here a year from now wondering what the hell happened (when we already knew the answers).

I'd feel better beating the Cowboys if we were knocking them out of a playoff spot. We'd really only be helping the Eagles and hurting our draft positioning.

Not that I'm rooting against us, which that post probably made it sound like. I'm just pretty dispassionate at this stage.

a healthy portion of this roster will (or should) be gone after this season, as well as some from the coaching staff, and potentially in the front office.

This organization needs an enema, it's time for vast change, imo. No sense in winning 6 games, retaining players/coaches that should be replaced so the future can actually begin in full.

Despite the outward comments, I tend to think the team didn't understand its positioning as of late last season. I think they've been in a bit of a denial for awhile about how bad certain aspects of the team are.

And I think the benefits of late season winning streaks are overstated.

In comment 11991704 Samiam said:

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And ended up with Beckham. Not a bad pick. Have to try to win every game unless we're talking an Andrew Luck draft which is very rare. Can't stand when people want to play out the string. That's not how you build a football team or a football culture.

Going 7-3 down the stretch last season helped build this season. So if you want to set the bar at awful-to-mediocre football, you just have to hope for more of the same. That's the current Giants football team and culture. I don't feel badly about want to see this dramatically improved. Fans of the status quo, enjoy.

but I cannot watch the Giants play and not root for them to win. It can't be done.

It's a question of not being so bothered if they don't win.

but I'm willing to accept the losses after the fact as means to strip the status quo.

In comment 11991721 shepherdsam said:

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but I cannot watch the Giants play and not root for them to win. It can't be done.

I definitely was in 2003 towards the end. Not cheering when the opposition scored, but I was hoping we'd lose.

When the game is on though, I'm actively rooting for the win, even late In hopeless games. I can't do otherwise, it's not an option.

we've all had to accept losses for awhile now. Not much other choice.

And no, they don't ruin my week like they used to. The team bought itself a lot of credit with me 2005-2011.

But I do like to see them win every once in awhile. And we haven't had a lot of winning lately.

I'm saying I cannot stop rooting for them, I can't watch a Giants game dispassionately, it's not within me.

I'm rooting for an entire season of football I can feel good about.

Not for something that will make me feel moderately better for a few hours.

that writing about it on a Friday afternoon. I'll be caught up in it for as long as it's a competitive game. But I know by now what it looks like when the Giants are checked out. And if they're not playing passionately, or competently, I'm certainly not going to be more into the game then they are.

I'm confidant that moving up a few slots in the draft order is not going to be the deciding factor on how next year goes.

Like I said, you guys aren't wrong but I can't do it.

If only (for selfish reasons) to walk out of the stadium Sunday night from my seats in the last damn row and enjoy every second of that walk, instead of hearing annoying bandwagon jumping Cowdicks hoot and holla after the game.

wouldn't it be in out best interest if the cowboys or eagles win the SB?

In comment 11991768 shepherdsam said:

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I'm confidant that moving up a few slots in the draft order is not going to be the deciding factor on how next year goes. Like I said, you guys aren't wrong but I can't do it.

It's not about the draft order for me. As I said, it's about the organization being sufficiently shaken to take bigger steps. For instance, of all the coordinators to let go last season, KG felt like s scapegoat. Lip to service to the idea of BIG CHANGE. Meanwhile, PF and TQ are still here. Along with the architects of this mess.

The team needs more change. And things usually have to get worse before they get better. The Giants have been running on the fumes from an improbable run in '11 for a few seasons now. I think that left the team, and some fans, under a number of illusions. It appears those needed to be shredded completely.

?

In comment 11991788 bxgiants4 said:

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?

Probably throw a bunch of picks, then lead a fourth quarter comeback, like Eli.

WTF?

Unlike some I would like to see them run the table. However, what have they done this season that leads you to believe that it's within the realm of possibility?

In comment 11991633 Britt in VA said:

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and be happy when I turn the TV off.

Instead I've been like this.. in front of the TV

I don't care about the draft b/c it doesn't matter. we'll end up with 2 good players and a bunch of projects that will either be hurt more than 1/2 the time or just plain suck and we'll be starting journeymen on the OL and LB for the rest of the decade.

so I'm all in on beating dallas this week! to hell with the draft!

You play to WIN the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Teams are built over a period of years. A culture is built over years. We had a bad season last year and looks like we may again this year although I would not be surprised if the Giants start a nice winning streak with a win over the Cowboys. But, there are alot of young players on this team that hopefully are part of the foundation for the future and we have a QB who still should have a few good years ahead of him assuming we add talent. I think the coaches and the front office are of a mind that you win every game and that's part of developing a winning mentality. And, I think that's why looking for a better pick doesn't work. And, last year, we won those "meaningless" games and it didn;t matter when we got Beckham.

but rather the wake up call tanking the season would generate.

I don't agree with this strategy either unless they're planning on canning everyone in the building and starting over. I don't see ownership doing that, not remotely. Time will tell.

We have not lost to one team that won't be in the playoffs this year, or at least very much in the hunt. We have beaten all of the teams we should have beaten. Right now we are an average to below average team. Beating the Cowboys would be great just from a confidence standpoint. Then we got 4 straight below average teams before the final game against the Eagles. Stranger things have happened..

Having said all that, if we ultimately do lose, it wont weigh on me as much because I already have very low expectations for this game/season. A win would shut the Cowboy fans and media lovers up. If nothing else, id take that. If we lose, were on our way to a better draft pick. Let the chips fall where they may, but ill be rooting us on come 8:30 on Sunday at Metlife.

In comment 11991850 shepherdsam said:

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but rather the wake up call tanking the season would generate. I don't agree with this strategy either unless they're planning on canning everyone in the building and starting over. I don't see ownership doing that, not remotely. Time will tell.

'Tanking the season' is an organizational strategy. I'm not suggesting that nor do I believe the Giants would ever do it. I also don't see everyone in the building getting canned and starting over. Because 1. The Giants 2. Eli.

So none of that is what I'm saying.

I'm saying this isn't a good football team and one week performances aren't that important to me right now.

To the extent that further losing might make the organization more interested in taking meaningful steps towards breaking up the rot that has brought us 6 out of 7 seasons with no playoffs, I'm okay with that.

'11 was an exceptional season in almost every way. Some folks (not you, shep) still seem confused by that because it ended with something shiny.

The benefits of winning far outway any benefit in losing.

Losing is for losers.

Beating the cowboys is one of best feelings.

what kind of meaningful steps do you want to take? They brought in Jennings, Schwartz, Rogers-Cromartie, Ayers, Bowman, Thurmond, Beason. I'm sure I'm missing some and I'm not counting then Jerry's or Kellen Davis or Brown's as meaningful. They got rid of Gilbride. They were very aggressive last offseason and I'm sure will be again if they have the money. Unless you're talking about replacing the front office and the coach, what are you talking about? This can't be just Fewell and Quinn.

feel good about any win. I don't care that a win may drop their draft pick slot. We'll deal with the draft in the off season.

if they are playing, i am wanting them to win..I don't play GM or scout on Sundays..I'm a fan..

I think that's why watching a game is losing it's effect on some fans..They try to play coach, GM, scout and owner instead of being a fan..

It was a poor choice of words and not really what I meant. Trying to save time but I just muddied my own water.

see a win. We'll all only get to see a limited number of these games in our lifetimes. I'm confident that Mara et al. aren't idiots. If an extra win or two could radically alter the decision-making process for the organization, then we have much bigger problems.

In comment 11991664 vibe4giants said:

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itself any longer. To be able to point at mirages and say, 'See? We're almost there!' We're not. The inertia has locked in. We've felt like shit after enough Giants games over the last few seasons. And not enough has changed. Which tells me there hasn't been enough pain yet for the organization. So if that's what it'll take, so be it. It's their choice, not ours. Beating the Cowboys isn't going to make me feel any better about a team that is going nowhere. There's no hope for this season. No point in pretending. I certainly won't feel bad if the Giants win. But it seems like the only wins the Giants get recently have been insignificant wins that people point to as signs of hope. After last years 0-6, people told themselves 7-3 down the stretch meant something. It didn't. Meaningless wins are meaning less.

Since when is a win over Dallas a "meaningless" win regardless of record? In the 70's the Dallas games WERE my SB's. After this week then, yeah, they are.

but Rick, Shep and Gman in DC have it right.

Its a fucking football game, not your retirement plan. Stop over analyzing and enjoy it for what it is....entertainment that you have zero control over

I have no expectations. A win, especially over the cowboys would give me some irrational pleasure. A loss would also be good long term.

about enjoying a win over a division rival?

In comment 11991977 Blue Baller said:

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about enjoying a win over a division rival?

Because its a meaningless game and makes us less likely to win meaningful games in the future.

The Raiders are more likely to be competitive next year than the Giants

In comment 11991714 JonC said:

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a healthy portion of this roster will (or should) be gone after this season, as well as some from the coaching staff, and potentially in the front office. This organization needs an enema, it's time for vast change, imo. No sense in winning 6 games, retaining players/coaches that should be replaced so the future can actually begin in full.

It's the ability to take a grasp of the whole situation, rather than having meaningless wins after the fact, that clouds good judgement after the season by Mara. Sure he intervened after last year by attacking not the true root of the problem here for last few seasons..and not seeing the overall big trend. It's like putting a band aide on a large leaking crack in the Hoover Dam and saying: "that should be good for awhile now"

In comment 11991988 Blue Baller said:

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The Raiders are more likely to be competitive next year than the Giants

Nope. The Giants have more talent now, especially at the QB position. Adding higher draft picks rather than lower draft picks will increase their chances of winning in the future.

Do you really think draft position doesn't matter?

.

But I agree it matters.

Where we disagree is that I believe the best way for us to be competitive in the future is for the players on the roster now to start playing better and for the coaching staff we have in place now to start coaching better.

Wins and loses don't happen in a vacuum, better teams win, worse teams lose. I rather be a better team.

Not to mention watching the Giants play well and win is much more enjoyable for me....and that is all I'm really after, to be entertained for a few hours watching my favorite team.

I love ya*, Britt!! Exactly my thoughts. Send these clowns out of NY with their tails between their legs!!! I like the way you think!





*In that manly kind of respectful way, of course.

In comment 11991901 shepherdsam said:

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It was a poor choice of words and not really what I meant. Trying to save time but I just muddied my own water.

I understand, man. I doubt we're really that far apart. Shooting the shit on a Friday. Come Sunday night, the instinct will kick in. Mostly, I think I'm just sparing myself further hurt. I've done denial, anger, blame, whatever. I'm at acceptance.