Not for the Sox. They aren't trading Bogaerts anytime soon and certainly not for a pitching "prospect". I can't imagine the Mets have any single player outside of Harvey that the Sox take 1-1 for Bogaerts and that includes deGrom and Wheeler.
Left-hander Jon Lester also is on the Soxs wish list, and the team is talking about a reunion with lefty reliever Andrew Miller as well. A number of starting pitchers, including Phillies ace Cole Hamels, also are available in trade.-Rosenthal
is probably not a 1 for 1 deal, but I would be so dismissive.
I get he was young, but that's the age where D is supposed to be passable. at SS IMO it's unlikely to get much better if at all, and Bogaerts was a butcher there and will almost certainly need to move off the position.
Bogaerts is a prospect still himself unless you were wowed by his .660 OPS.
is probably not a 1 for 1 deal, but I would be so dismissive.
I get he was young, but that's the age where D is supposed to be passable. at SS IMO it's unlikely to get much better if at all, and Bogaerts was a butcher there and will almost certainly need to move off the position.
Bogaerts is a prospect still himself unless you were wowed by his .660 OPS.
II don't think that you can merely look at his OPS and make any great conclusions. Haven't looked it up yet but my recollection that his OPS over the season was pretty U-shaped.
is probably not a 1 for 1 deal, but I would be so dismissive.
I get he was young, but that's the age where D is supposed to be passable. at SS IMO it's unlikely to get much better if at all, and Bogaerts was a butcher there and will almost certainly need to move off the position.
Bogaerts is a prospect still himself unless you were wowed by his .660 OPS.
II don't think that you can merely look at his OPS and make any great conclusions. Haven't looked it up yet but my recollection that his OPS over the season was pretty U-shaped.
Correct. He was awful June-Aug. Decent to good otherwise.
I'm personally gonna send Kung Fu Panda some Mike's Pastry
I agree you can't, and I have no doubt he'll be a good hitter, possibly a great hitter, but he was considered so special because he was projected to be a good to great hitter while remaining at SS.
I think moving (if that's happens) him lessens the projection (and probably the pressure) a little and I don't think his rookie season enforces him as untouchable or even harder to attain.
Most Sox fans I talk to consider his rookie year a mild disappointment. not major and not like he was overwhelmed, but they just had higher expectations due to the hype and the way he handled himself in the post-season.
really good the first part of the season and then terrible when they moved him to third base for like 2-3 months, and then hit pretty well towards the end of the season. He'll probably never be a great fielder (he was adequate for stretches during the year), but it still seems likely he can hit and hit for power and be selective on pitches. He's so young, but he's a lot like Manny Machado but not as good a fielder, but potentially with even more power.
to remember... Mets fans hope/expect a better 2nd season fro TDA... he will play 2015 as a 26 year old (he graded out as THE WORST defensive catcher in baseball by the metrics yet many/most expect improvement going forward)... Bogaerts will be 23 years old for the entire 2015 season. Zack Wheeler, another player many expect/hope to improve in 2015 is 25 in May. Bogaerts likely never becomes a "great" fielder but he doesn't have to. If he hits like most expect him to he only needs to be "passable" at SS. He's always have the Hanley Ramirez comp and that seems apt. If Bogaerts is dealt it will be for a proven stud like Hamels not a pitching prospect. Sox are looking to win the 2015 WS not watch a pitching prospect potentially struggle through his rookie season (as most do).
pitching prospects (even the best) rarely are enough to bring back good young hitting prospects.
Thor for Alexei Ramirez is a more fair deal than Xander (not that I would ever make such a swap). But in terms of realistic deals/asking prices, Ramirez a top 10 player at his position coming off a good year with no health problems for a pitching prospect like Thor is more in line with "fair" and I can't imagine ANY Mets fans would want the Mets to do that.
Let me preface that I want to see Foores starting at 2B and not at SS.
But
Flores compares very favorably with Boegarts. Similar players, similar minor league numbers, similar size, similar age, similar defense. Not clones, but surprisingly similar profiles. One barely gets talked about and is lucky to be named a top 100 prospect. The other is considered top echelon of prospects the past few years.
Yet one player half the fans want to dump, and another the most respected Mets fan on this board feels would be traded for nothing less than Harvey. As a Mets fan, if I was FORCED to stick with Flores at SS and keep DeGrom/Wheeler, or get Boegarts and lose a prized pitcher?? As much as I'd like BoegRts in a Mets uni, we already have a lite version of him.
I just wonder where Betts fits into the picture now though.
100% not suggesting I want to trade deGrom but I wonder if his trade value is below where it normally would be for a guy with his season ie we never heard teams absolutely loved him until he came up. Do they throw out their previous reports? or view him as a guy who pitched over his head?
Let me preface that I want to see Foores starting at 2B and not at SS.
But
Flores compares very favorably with Boegarts. Similar players, similar minor league numbers, similar size, similar age, similar defense. Not clones, but surprisingly similar profiles. One barely gets talked about and is lucky to be named a top 100 prospect. The other is considered top echelon of prospects the past few years.
Yet one player half the fans want to dump, and another the most respected Mets fan on this board feels would be traded for nothing less than Harvey. As a Mets fan, if I was FORCED to stick with Flores at SS and keep DeGrom/Wheeler, or get Boegarts and lose a prized pitcher?? As much as I'd like BoegRts in a Mets uni, we already have a lite version of him.
I just wonder where Betts fits into the picture now though.
This post is very on point. I'm with you preferring Flores at 2B instead of SS and I'm on the front lines of wanting to upgrade the defense up the middle any way possibly. But I can't see the logic in trading Syndergaard for a SS that isn't a big upgrade over Flores defensively, or at least extremely proven offensively. That's why the Seattle guys make sense, they're both good defensively and presumably wouldn't cost Thor, though not sure either will be readily available now that Hanley is off the market. I know it's never going to happen but Tulowitzki is the only player out there I'd give up Syndergaard for.
Sox reportedly loved how he looked with the bat but questioned if CF is his best position due to his instincts. Long term their OF will likely be Hanley with Castillo and Betts. Victorino and Cespedes will be goners soon enough. Craig could be flipped too but at least he can play 1b as well.
Before signing Hanley, Sox already had wayyyyy to many OF. If they are signing Hanley to play LF, that logjam got even worse. Obviously Betts won't play 2B for the Sox, and their Of situation is already beyond overcrowded.
Just seems that one of Boegarts and Betts would be moved for a young cost controlled arm. And I would go after Betts over Boegarts ten out of ten times.
think Betts is going to be very, very good. I think he's the kind of player where even Yankee fans give him his "respect". He has essentially no major flaws to his game. Speed, eye at the plate, athleticism, glove. I'd deal Thor or Wheeler for him in a millisecond. Doubt there is any chance the Sox would consider either. Bogaerts in a deal for Hamels is the one deal I could see making sense.
Betts were bigger he'd be a consensus top 10 prospect in the game and in fact I'd take him over quite a few guys who are considered top 10 depending on team need of course.
Sox reportedly loved how he looked with the bat but questioned if CF is his best position due to his instincts. Long term their OF will likely be Hanley with Castillo and Betts. Victorino and Cespedes will be goners soon enough. Craig could be flipped too but at least he can play 1b as well.
Victorino isn't going to bring back much. Cespedes is still overvalued by some, but it's not a coincidence that if he is dealt it would be his 3rd team in 6 months. Craig is nothing special but he needs to spell Napoli and his remarkably persevering hip.
And before I cry myself to sleep tonight I'm going to remember the fate of the last Boston shopping spree, and pretty much every other shopping spree of consequence save the 2009 Yankees, which still blew up a couple years later.
Wheeler probably nets a better return than DeGrom would. People cling to their scouting reports. A smart front office would look at DeGrom and wonder if the league will figure him out his second go round. Then realize "oh shit, he actually IMPROVED as the year went on"...
DeGroms growth has definitely made Wheeler more expendable than anyone could have previously thought. DeGrom already is what everyone hoped Wheeler would become. Wheeler is still John Maine 2.0, but with trade value. And closer to free agency than DeGrom is.
They might have trouble moving him.
Mets will likely have trouble moving Colon. Still.
Could definitely see a Victorino for Colon swap if neither has been moved in February.
to be clear I'm not suggesting Victorino brings back something amazing. I just think he's going to be dealt. I'm pretty sure they can land a Colon caliber pitcher for him. Cespedes will still bring back something decent given the market, 1 year of control doesn't help however.
not sure hanley can play OF and that leaves either 3b or SS.
I guess he could DH, but if he does than means the end of Ortiz. Not sure Ortiz to Hanley is a significant upgrade at this point.
Sandoval has agreement to go to the red sox for 5 years, close to 100M
Sandoval has agreement to go to the red sox for 5 years, close to 100M
Suckers
Redsox could be lineup
RF Holt or Victorino
2b Pedroia
ss Hanley
DH Ortiz
LF Cespedes
3b Sandoval
1b Napoli
cf Castillo
C Vasquez (#1 on depth chart right now)
Middlebrooks? I've got an idea or 40.
BTW, if they sign Sandoval (which I hope they don't), Ramirez goes to the OF and many trades are made following.
not sure hanley can play OF and that leaves either 3b or SS.
I guess he could DH, but if he does than means the end of Ortiz. Not sure Ortiz to Hanley is a significant upgrade at this point.
They've got Little League dimensions in LF. I'm sure Hanley can be passable out there.
Not for the Sox. They aren't trading Bogaerts anytime soon and certainly not for a pitching "prospect". I can't imagine the Mets have any single player outside of Harvey that the Sox take 1-1 for Bogaerts and that includes deGrom and Wheeler.
If he can stay on the field, which is a dicey proposition these days
Quote:
That's a ridiculously good deal.
If he can stay on the field, which is a dicey proposition these days
Agreed.. but <20 AAV for a player of his caliber on a deal with a reasonable term is very good. 3.4 WAR player in just 128 games this year
I get he was young, but that's the age where D is supposed to be passable. at SS IMO it's unlikely to get much better if at all, and Bogaerts was a butcher there and will almost certainly need to move off the position.
Bogaerts is a prospect still himself unless you were wowed by his .660 OPS.
That team was the mother of all flukes, getting career years from virtually every journeyman scrub they picked up.
I get he was young, but that's the age where D is supposed to be passable. at SS IMO it's unlikely to get much better if at all, and Bogaerts was a butcher there and will almost certainly need to move off the position.
Bogaerts is a prospect still himself unless you were wowed by his .660 OPS.
II don't think that you can merely look at his OPS and make any great conclusions. Haven't looked it up yet but my recollection that his OPS over the season was pretty U-shaped.
Quote:
is probably not a 1 for 1 deal, but I would be so dismissive.
I get he was young, but that's the age where D is supposed to be passable. at SS IMO it's unlikely to get much better if at all, and Bogaerts was a butcher there and will almost certainly need to move off the position.
Bogaerts is a prospect still himself unless you were wowed by his .660 OPS.
II don't think that you can merely look at his OPS and make any great conclusions. Haven't looked it up yet but my recollection that his OPS over the season was pretty U-shaped.
Correct. He was awful June-Aug. Decent to good otherwise.
I think moving (if that's happens) him lessens the projection (and probably the pressure) a little and I don't think his rookie season enforces him as untouchable or even harder to attain.
Most Sox fans I talk to consider his rookie year a mild disappointment. not major and not like he was overwhelmed, but they just had higher expectations due to the hype and the way he handled himself in the post-season.
It's disgusting that baseball doesnt have rules in place disallowing them from re-signing Lester.
Thor for Alexei Ramirez is a more fair deal than Xander (not that I would ever make such a swap). But in terms of realistic deals/asking prices, Ramirez a top 10 player at his position coming off a good year with no health problems for a pitching prospect like Thor is more in line with "fair" and I can't imagine ANY Mets fans would want the Mets to do that.
Donaldson, Rendon, Beltre, Seager, Pablo, Carpenter, Arenado, Frazier, Harrison.
But
Flores compares very favorably with Boegarts. Similar players, similar minor league numbers, similar size, similar age, similar defense. Not clones, but surprisingly similar profiles. One barely gets talked about and is lucky to be named a top 100 prospect. The other is considered top echelon of prospects the past few years.
Yet one player half the fans want to dump, and another the most respected Mets fan on this board feels would be traded for nothing less than Harvey. As a Mets fan, if I was FORCED to stick with Flores at SS and keep DeGrom/Wheeler, or get Boegarts and lose a prized pitcher?? As much as I'd like BoegRts in a Mets uni, we already have a lite version of him.
I just wonder where Betts fits into the picture now though.
.290/.358/.425 8 homers 19 steals in 97 games
Reds are reportedly shopping Latos, buyer beware.
But
Flores compares very favorably with Boegarts. Similar players, similar minor league numbers, similar size, similar age, similar defense. Not clones, but surprisingly similar profiles. One barely gets talked about and is lucky to be named a top 100 prospect. The other is considered top echelon of prospects the past few years.
Yet one player half the fans want to dump, and another the most respected Mets fan on this board feels would be traded for nothing less than Harvey. As a Mets fan, if I was FORCED to stick with Flores at SS and keep DeGrom/Wheeler, or get Boegarts and lose a prized pitcher?? As much as I'd like BoegRts in a Mets uni, we already have a lite version of him.
I just wonder where Betts fits into the picture now though.
This post is very on point. I'm with you preferring Flores at 2B instead of SS and I'm on the front lines of wanting to upgrade the defense up the middle any way possibly. But I can't see the logic in trading Syndergaard for a SS that isn't a big upgrade over Flores defensively, or at least extremely proven offensively. That's why the Seattle guys make sense, they're both good defensively and presumably wouldn't cost Thor, though not sure either will be readily available now that Hanley is off the market. I know it's never going to happen but Tulowitzki is the only player out there I'd give up Syndergaard for.
Sox reportedly loved how he looked with the bat but questioned if CF is his best position due to his instincts. Long term their OF will likely be Hanley with Castillo and Betts. Victorino and Cespedes will be goners soon enough. Craig could be flipped too but at least he can play 1b as well.
Just seems that one of Boegarts and Betts would be moved for a young cost controlled arm. And I would go after Betts over Boegarts ten out of ten times.
Quote:
should be the Red Sox opening day starter in CF.
Sox reportedly loved how he looked with the bat but questioned if CF is his best position due to his instincts. Long term their OF will likely be Hanley with Castillo and Betts. Victorino and Cespedes will be goners soon enough. Craig could be flipped too but at least he can play 1b as well.
Victorino isn't going to bring back much. Cespedes is still overvalued by some, but it's not a coincidence that if he is dealt it would be his 3rd team in 6 months. Craig is nothing special but he needs to spell Napoli and his remarkably persevering hip.
And before I cry myself to sleep tonight I'm going to remember the fate of the last Boston shopping spree, and pretty much every other shopping spree of consequence save the 2009 Yankees, which still blew up a couple years later.
DeGroms growth has definitely made Wheeler more expendable than anyone could have previously thought. DeGrom already is what everyone hoped Wheeler would become. Wheeler is still John Maine 2.0, but with trade value. And closer to free agency than DeGrom is.
Mets will likely have trouble moving Colon. Still.
Could definitely see a Victorino for Colon swap if neither has been moved in February.