JPP's Market Value

the team to spend on him.

but not at the price he thinks that he is worth. If he does not come back to the Giants, his best bet is to go to a team where he does not have to be the top pass rusher.

going to want a lot more than what the Giants should be willing to pay. He has no help, and has been very good against the run. He's also played well against Smith, one of the better tackles in the league. But there is little pressure, whereas Ayers has been able to generate some. He also has an injury history. I wouldn't resign him for what he wants. The problem is that not doing so creates another hole, especially since Kiwi is done. But that is a lesser problem than overpaying him. Next year at DE we go with Ayers, Moore, Wynn, and a high draft pick, maybe Orchard after a trade down.

I honestly have no clue where JPP fits....maybe in line with Jared Allen?
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more year...unless he signs a team friendly deal, kind of a bridge contract...I would let this play out and deal with it after 2015 season.

I'm well aware that he's likely going to cost more than he's worth (or at least more than fans think he's worth). The question is, if you are the GM of any team, what are you willing to pay for a player with JPPs attributes?

In comment 11997309 MikeN in Ottawa said:

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more year...unless he signs a team friendly deal, kind of a bridge contract...I would let this play out and deal with it after 2015 season.

no we dont

His last year is a player option we will most certainly get out of

his market value starts at $12M per season.

He needs help on the DL, but I do question his maturity and commitment to pro football. Is this man equipped to be the player he was in 2011 week to week? Is his body physically capable of it after the back surgery? How badly does he want to be great?

Huge questions, and I hope the team really self-examines as well as uses laser focus on JPP.

which explains the mystery on that front. He'll certainly exercise it and look to hit the open market.

Probably 5 years or so. It's a big contract but he's maybe worth it.

He gets a knock because he's not rushing the passer he like he used to but he's as good as anyone versus the run. You win with players like JPP and we need more of them. It's a matter of resource allocation though.

My guess is he's gone after this year and we'll miss him.

not "we" will

I'm sure the Giants would be happy to pay him 3mil (or whatever the salary on the 5th year) even with his warts

around what the Vikings paid Everson Griffen.
$42M with £20M guaranteed.
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the Allen deal might be reasonable. But even at 31, Allen was a top pass rusher last year and thus was getting paid like a pass rusher.

One player who comes to mind is Justin Smith. He was strong against the run but only a 6-8 sack/year player. I think he played 43DE in Cincy before signing a 6 yr/$45M ($11M guaranteed) with the 49ers. That was back in 2008 though, so tough to compare to this year.

Assuming contract values increase 5% a year and using the Smith contract as a base, JPP would be looking at something in the 6 yr, $60-65M ($15M guaranteed) range. Is JPP a $10M/year player?

with average pass rushing skills he a better than average starter but not a pro bowl caliber player. Don't know what that's worth but that's what he is.

Its above average, maybe still top 25%, but he is no longer a black hole sucking everything up like he used to be

Especially if the cap goes up. You have to take into account how good he is against the run.

There isn't much on the line outside of Hankins. I think if you can get an above average player to replace Kiwanuka's corpse on the other side (even if you're just playing Ayers full time), you'd see a much better JPP.

Would rather spend the money elsewhere and get a real pass rusher in at DE. If he were to accept something in the neighborhood of $3-4M to be a backup, I'd consider it. But that's not happening. Good luck to him.

Griffen's a better pass rusher though. On the other hand, JPP has a longer track record.

In comment 11997336 BillT said:

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with average pass rushing skills he a better than average starter but not a pro bowl caliber player. Don't know what that's worth but that's what he is.

I think he's far better than just a "quality" run stuffing DE.

It seems he's one of the best in the league against the run.

Chalk up another one.

That's a real question. It's not like there are great pass rushers just sitting around to be signed at $5 million per year.

If you don't sign him you're basically committing to rolling with what you've got and maybe bringing in some veteran depth.

If you think our DL sucks now, just wait to see it without JPP.

In comment 11997318 armstead98 said:

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Probably 5 years or so. It's a big contract but he's maybe worth it. He gets a knock because he's not rushing the passer he like he used to but he's as good as anyone versus the run. You win with players like JPP and we need more of them. It's a matter of resource allocation though. My guess is he's gone after this year and we'll miss him.

At $8 million per, then I would resign him. at $10 million per, he is less attractive. My guess is someone is going to overpay him.

And even if he were, it's fair to question whether he's worth the money in an NFL that is full of offenses that use quick passes and short drops to negate the pass rush.

I'll go a step further...the defense fucking BLEW in 2011 when JPP had a monster year. 25th overall, 29th against the pass, 19th against the run.

Everyone would probably agree that this defense needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt. I'd go a step further and question some of the basic ideas upon which the defense has been built these last 10 years or so:

- Should DE and CB continue to be prioritized as areas of heavy investment?
- Is the 4-3 front still the most effective model in today's league?
- Is it time to start diverting larger investments into the LB positions?

As a Giant fan I can abide poor offense, but poor defense is something that I find intolerable even in today's shitty Arena League NFL.

In the past it didn't make any sense because the Giants just didn't have any key pieces but now I actually think they're relatively suited to make the switch if they want.

Hankins can play NT, JPP would be a great 3-4 DE. Bromley could hopefully play on the other side. They've got the middle linebackers with Beason, Mcclain and Kennard.

OLB is the biggest question mark, maybe Moore could play one spot and I'd imagine they would target some pass rushers in the draft.

Anyway, I agree it's worth considering and there aren't too many holes if they decide to make the move.

Reese: "JPP, this is what we are offering you, if you want, test the market."

Good-bye.....

would also question whether a big contract would kill his motivation. I don't see him being J.J. Watt in that regard. I'd pass in all likelihood, but again, it depends on the $$$.

Anyway, I agree it's worth considering and there aren't too many holes if they decide to make the move.


This defense is a sink hole right now.....key to 3-4 is linebackers......and the track record of this team, as far as linebackers go, is? Moore in pass coverage? Yessssssss! We don't even know if he can play DE, and yet we know he can play linebacker?

His motivation is suspect. He gets dominated by top OTs.

But, he is their best lineman at the moment. I would be reluctant to give him top DE $$ regardless.

...is only as good as the guys lining up next to them. Neither one is capable of carrying the offense or defense on their back, and shouldn't be paid as if they can.

In comment 11997389 Go Terps said:

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And even if he were, it's fair to question whether he's worth the money in an NFL that is full of offenses that use quick passes and short drops to negate the pass rush. I'll go a step further...the defense fucking BLEW in 2011 when JPP had a monster year. 25th overall, 29th against the pass, 19th against the run. Everyone would probably agree that this defense needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt. I'd go a step further and question some of the basic ideas upon which the defense has been built these last 10 years or so: - Should DE and CB continue to be prioritized as areas of heavy investment? - Is the 4-3 front still the most effective model in today's league? - Is it time to start diverting larger investments into the LB positions? As a Giant fan I can abide poor offense, but poor defense is something that I find intolerable even in today's shitty Arena League NFL.

CB? Yes - NE, Arizona, Seattle all have at least 1 shut down CB.

DE? Maybe - you still need to stop the run #1 or it won't matter how could your secondary is.

That said, the Giants underinvestment in LB is killing them.

In comment 11997377 armstead98 said:

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That's a real question. It's not like there are great pass rushers just sitting around to be signed at $5 million per year. If you don't sign him you're basically committing to rolling with what you've got and maybe bringing in some veteran depth. If you think our DL sucks now, just wait to see it without JPP.

One guy that's been mentioned is Suh. While he's obviously not a DE, his cost might be in the same ballpark as JPPs and he would vastly upgrade the interior of the DL. Suh/Hankins in the middle would wreak havok on OLs.

But then they need to hit a HR in the draft with a DE.

So I disagree there.

Long signed a 4 year $48.2 million contract (23.55 guaranteed) after his first four seasons. He had 30.5 sacks after his first four seasons although the last one was his best. JPP had 29.5 through his first four although only 3.5 this year, his fifth. He's a very good run defender which I'm sure will be a part of negotiations but the main reason I think it will start there is contracts will be going up with the salary cap. When it's all said and done I think he'll have a top 5 contract in the league, whether it's with us or someone else.

and you don't want to just let this guy walk without thinking very very hard about it. At his worse he's a plus player at DE.

I'd try like hell to re-sign him but can't break the bank. He's a solid player. We need more solid players not less.

He will not garner top DL in the game money, they way he would have a couple of years ago. But, to those who know and scout the game, he is getting good reviews for his play this year. It has been solid overall.

I don't think the giants should entertain bringing him back, though. They don't need to overpay for a solid DL who lacks a lot of technique, wears down, lacks discipline at times, and hasn't provided consistent pressure for more than 2 seasons.

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...that will play in including if the team wants to move away from it's current philosophy of relying on 4 for pressure. Giving a guy $8-10M a year just because the rest of the roster has been poorly managed isn't a good long term strategy - especially when said guy's issues are a dangerous combination of medical/mental/maturity.

DT is the deepest position in FA this year, and with the way the league has trended toward getting the ball out fast, having an inside pass rush can be much more disruptive than waiting for a DE with a slow first step get around the corner (and back up field...).

He'd better be, for all his physical attributes.

What an underacheiver.

I can pop off 10 DE's that are just as good as he is against the run and can also take down the QB.

The "he's a good run defender" stuff has to stop. So what? Its not hard to find DE's who can play the run.

In comment 11997636 Greg from LI said:

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Game, set , match

and use that money to add to the pot in getting a player like Suh.

a great run defender.

jpp is an inconsistent run defender - sometimes he plays it perfectly and dominates and sometimes he loses contain, looks like a fool or gets completely shoved off the screen.

strahan would go complete seasons without screwing up his run D.

that said, i would take the gamble on a 25 year old JPP. I think he's played his way out of a mega-deal anywhere.

after suh, too

I make a phone call to Cedric Jones.

I also can easily see JPP's motivation taking a major nose dive if he gets a deal.

I definitely, definitely would not re-sign him. He's not a difference maker on a team that needs a lot of help on this side.

Do, do, do go after Suh.

In five years he's never learned decent technique. He still bullrushes probably 95% of the time. He's the same player he was the day he came into the league.

apparently robert nunn has been extremely frustrated with jpp as well, over the years, not that its anything new. wonder how that will or wont play into negotiations with us or someone else

also brings some toughness/nastiness to a rather soft team

In comment 11997768 GIANTSr01 said:

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also brings some toughness/nastiness to a rather soft team

Absolutely.

Defense has to be played with a chip on your shoulder......Suh's mad at the world and, quite honestly, we need a player like that.

He'd look great next to Hankins........

In comment 11997751 Greg from LI said:

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In five years he's never learned decent technique. He still bullrushes probably 95% of the time. He's the same player he was the day he came into the league.

Exactly. Plus, as much praise as he gets for playing the run, he has displayed a lack of discipline by crashing hard inside and losing the edge over and over. the only thing I can say about that is it seems to be Fewell's doing, as every one of his DEs does it.

head pretty well screwed on. I think he can objectively evaluate his play and he'll come to the table with a very reasonable offer. Plus, he'll make sure JR knows that he can guarantee us a SB.

to his side. When he is on what seems to be the other side, he crashes hard, losing contain. He also still can't read the read option or a counter. The bottom line, to get in the vicinity of money he will want and may yet get from someone else, a DE damned well better get some pressure. That is something he hasn't done in 2 plus seasons. I would not pay him to stay.

and if someone overpays for him, then you let him go.

I wouldn't even spend any time or thought on it. I just wouldn't negotiate with him and let him test the market to his heart's content.

for one season, a big gamble.

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it's been said a lot but it's true: they don't win SB46 without him (if only for the Dallas blocked FG game). And he's got some positives ... I like, for instance, how he pursues a runner that's broken through the front 4. But he's not getting the big contract that he'll want from NY.

Good tackles like Peters completely neutralize him. Maybe spend big on Suh in FA. Definitely draft a DE if it lines up with BPA. Play Moore/Ayers in the meantime.

He and Nicks still paid dividends. But they're not part of the future.

In comment 11997425 Doomster said:

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Reese: "JPP, this is what we are offering you, if you want, test the market." Good-bye.....

JPP: No thanks. I think I'll just wait and see what offer I can get from the new GM who replaces you....