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No Huddle

Les in TO : 11/24/2014 1:54 pm
The Giants came out swinging in the no huddle, up tempo offense....they had the cowboys gassed and on their heels. the no huddle suits eli's strengths as he's at his best and locked in with that type of pace. there were some runs and checkdowns mixed in with the intermediate passing to keep the D honest.

and what do they do to start the second half? 'protect the lead'/try to chew up the clock with a "balanced" slow tempo run run pass punt...the result...several 3 and outs and allowing the cowboys to get right back into the game.

yet another indictment of the over-conservative, risk-averse coughlin staff. instead of continuing to go to the well, they revert to what hasn't been working this season and to a certain extent the past couple of seasons.
They wanted to keep the Dallas O off the field against the Giants  
Victor in CT : 11/24/2014 1:57 pm : link
shitty defense. Tough to do when you can't run the ball.
I don't think you understand what the definition of the  
NYGmen58 : 11/24/2014 1:57 pm : link
"No Huddle" offense is.
NYG started to lose the line battle as the 1st half closed  
JonC : 11/24/2014 2:00 pm : link
that continued right from the start of the 2nd half, so there's context for the change in approach. The motivation for them to try to adjust is to be sure their scheme is blocking up the DAL DL effectively, which it wasn't.
RE: I don't think you understand what the definition of the  
Les in TO : 11/24/2014 2:01 pm : link
In comment 11998262 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
"No Huddle" offense is.


It is what the Giants did during their first three drives leading to touchdowns; it was a pass first run second approach.

In the second half they went away from that and only started moving the ball again when they went back to a no huddle pass first/run second approach.
RE: RE: I don't think you understand what the definition of the  
FJ : 11/24/2014 2:39 pm : link
In comment 11998282 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 11998262 NYGmen58 said:


Quote:


"No Huddle" offense is.



It is what the Giants did during their first three drives leading to touchdowns; it was a pass first run second approach.

In the second half they went away from that and only started moving the ball again when they went back to a no huddle pass first/run second approach.


First of all, "no huddle" does not mean pass first/run second, and it doesn't mean hurry up; it just means that the Giants don't go to a huddle so the defense can't substitute.

Second, the Giants did use the "no huddle" for much of the game, including the first 3 TD drives, but if you think they were in a pass first mode, then you were not paying attention very well.

On their first TD drive, the Giants ran the ball 6 times and passed 7 times. They ran the ball on fisrt down 3 out 5 five times).

On the second TD drive, the Giants ran and passed an equal number of times (3 each) They ran the ball on 2 out of the 3 first downs.

On the third TD drive, the Giants ran the ball 8 times and passed only 3 times. They ran the ball on first down 5 out of 6 times).

So to sum up, on the 3 TD drives, the Giants ran (17 times) more often than they passed (13 times). And they overwhelmingly called running plays on first down (10 runs, only 4 passes).

Can't believe how soft Beatty is...smh  
Geeman : 11/24/2014 2:41 pm : link
This guy gets shoved around by just about everyone.
FJ's  
dorgan : 11/24/2014 2:41 pm : link
post effectively killed this thread.

It's odd how often perception strays from fact.
One of the reasons the Giants looked  
Sneakers O'toole : 11/24/2014 2:44 pm : link
as competitive as they did was the fact that Jennings was a threat as a runner. This looked more like the team that won three games then what we had been seeing as of late.
RE: One of the reasons the Giants looked  
dorgan : 11/24/2014 2:46 pm : link
In comment 11998430 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
as competitive as they did was the fact that Jennings was a threat as a runner. This looked more like the team that won three games then what we had been seeing as of late.


He ran hard, too. The OL blocked quite a bit better in the run game, as well.

Jennings  
spike : 11/24/2014 2:52 pm : link
is the co-MVP of tbis offense.
Dorgan  
Sneakers O'toole : 11/24/2014 2:55 pm : link
Agreed. I'm proud of the way they played all things considered.
RE: One of the reasons the Giants looked  
FJ : 11/24/2014 2:55 pm : link
In comment 11998430 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
as competitive as they did was the fact that Jennings was a threat as a runner. This looked more like the team that won three games then what we had been seeing as of late.

Jennings also did a better job picking up the blitz than Williams had been doing.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think you understand what the definition of the  
Les in TO : 11/24/2014 3:04 pm : link
In comment 11998416 FJ said:
Quote:
First of all, "no huddle" does not mean pass first/run second, and it doesn't mean hurry up; it just means that the Giants don't go to a huddle so the defense can't substitute.

Second, the Giants did use the "no huddle" for much of the game, including the first 3 TD drives, but if you think they were in a pass first mode, then you were not paying attention very well.

On their first TD drive, the Giants ran the ball 6 times and passed 7 times. They ran the ball on fisrt down 3 out 5 five times).

On the second TD drive, the Giants ran and passed an equal number of times (3 each) They ran the ball on 2 out of the 3 first downs.

On the third TD drive, the Giants ran the ball 8 times and passed only 3 times. They ran the ball on first down 5 out of 6 times).

So to sum up, on the 3 TD drives, the Giants ran (17 times) more often than they passed (13 times). And they overwhelmingly called running plays on first down (10 runs, only 4 passes).
on the first 3 TDs the no huddle version was very much like a hurry up offense...they were getting the snap off with 20+seconds left on the playclock.

to your point, there was a fair amount of running in those drives, more than i insinuated initially.

however, on the first drive of the second half, they decided to play it safe and go back to the huddle/running the playclock down to almost zero.

the giants rushed 32 times for around 2.8 yards per carry, compared to their 300+ yards passing that was fairly efficient all night. there are some games where the run/pass ratio needs to be out of balance and last night was one of those nights where eli should have been called to pass 50 times.

bottom line, they were having success in an up tempo offense and then they took their foot off the gas and then stalled.
An up tempo offense typically utilizes  
kickerpa16 : 11/24/2014 3:06 pm : link
a very significant run game as part of its scheme...
RE: An up tempo offense typically utilizes  
Les in TO : 11/24/2014 3:14 pm : link
In comment 11998515 kickerpa16 said:
Quote:
a very significant run game as part of its scheme...


then why did they move away from the up tempo offense and go back to the drain the playclock/huddling to start the second half. trying to milk the clock? trying to mix things up? either way, they went away from what worked to what didn't work and when they switched back to a no huddle/shotgun they had the successful drive that was interrupted by the manning INT and then the robinson touchdown drive to follow.
Dollars to donuts, you'd be howling like a  
kickerpa16 : 11/24/2014 3:23 pm : link
pre-teen about how we didn't "switch things up" if we had kept doing what we did, and it didn't work.

Take a guess, the defense plays as well. You have to try to keep them on their heels...
By the way, you're using the terms "up tempo" and "no huddle"  
kickerpa16 : 11/24/2014 3:24 pm : link
without a clue as to what they mean...
You're looking at the success in vacuum  
JonC : 11/24/2014 3:26 pm : link
Dallas' DL began to control the LOS, and that had an effect on how NYG called the offense for a number of series. Synder injured his knee, Jennings sat for a bit and Andre struggled with pass pro, OB was out for a bit, Parker was lighting up the mistake sheet, etc.
RE: RE: An up tempo offense typically utilizes  
FJ : 11/24/2014 3:39 pm : link
In comment 11998550 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 11998515 kickerpa16 said:


Quote:


a very significant run game as part of its scheme...



then why did they move away from the up tempo offense and go back to the drain the playclock/huddling to start the second half. trying to milk the clock? trying to mix things up? either way, they went away from what worked to what didn't work and when they switched back to a no huddle/shotgun they had the successful drive that was interrupted by the manning INT and then the robinson touchdown drive to follow.


When you have a lead in the second half, like the Giants did, it is wise strategy to try to milk the clock. Staying with the no huddle but using up more of the game/play clock is a big part of that strategy.

However, despite what you may think, the Giants were in ball control mode the entire game, even if they were "up-tempo" as you put it. The first TD drive (13 plays) consumed 7:07. The second (6 plays) was only 2:53 because 43 out of the 66 yards were on one play. The third (11 plays) ate up 5:57. And if there's a fault with the last TD drive (14 plays) it's that the Giants scored too quickly, eating up 6:12 but leaving 3-1/2 minutes on the clock.

The Giants play calling was consistent throughout the game. their execution (protecting Eli dropping passes (Parker, Williams) was the change.
RE: Dollars to donuts, you'd be howling like a  
Les in TO : 11/24/2014 3:44 pm : link
In comment 11998592 kickerpa16 said:
Quote:
pre-teen about how we didn't "switch things up" if we had kept doing what we did, and it didn't work.

Take a guess, the defense plays as well. You have to try to keep them on their heels...


I agree you need to keep the D on their heels, but you also need to play to your strengths. 32 runs for 80 yards at 2.8 yards per carry - is not your strength.

The D was on its heels when they were in the no huddle which was also "up tempo". When Giants went back to huddling and letting the playclock run down to zero, that's when they reverted back to their poor play.
RE: RE: RE: An up tempo offense typically utilizes  
Les in TO : 11/24/2014 3:45 pm : link
In comment 11998667 FJ said:
Quote:
In comment 11998550 Les in TO said:


Quote:


In comment 11998515 kickerpa16 said:


Quote:


a very significant run game as part of its scheme...



then why did they move away from the up tempo offense and go back to the drain the playclock/huddling to start the second half. trying to milk the clock? trying to mix things up? either way, they went away from what worked to what didn't work and when they switched back to a no huddle/shotgun they had the successful drive that was interrupted by the manning INT and then the robinson touchdown drive to follow.



When you have a lead in the second half, like the Giants did, it is wise strategy to try to milk the clock. Staying with the no huddle but using up more of the game/play clock is a big part of that strategy.

However, despite what you may think, the Giants were in ball control mode the entire game, even if they were "up-tempo" as you put it. The first TD drive (13 plays) consumed 7:07. The second (6 plays) was only 2:53 because 43 out of the 66 yards were on one play. The third (11 plays) ate up 5:57. And if there's a fault with the last TD drive (14 plays) it's that the Giants scored too quickly, eating up 6:12 but leaving 3-1/2 minutes on the clock.

The Giants play calling was consistent throughout the game. their execution (protecting Eli dropping passes (Parker, Williams) was the change.


it was 11 points at the start of the second half when they started to try and milk the clock. that was way too early; and they dropped the no huddle for the first two drives of the second half.
There is truth to the playclock thing  
moespree : 11/24/2014 3:48 pm : link
This was a non issue in the preseason and first few games of the season. The Giants looked like they fixed their playclock issues from the previous seasons, and all of a sudden it started creeping back, and now is back to snapping the ball with a second or two. It's telling, because why has it creeped back in? If it wasn't there to start the season, why would it suddenly return, if no alterations were made to what the offensive coordinator wanted to do and run?
God damnit  
giantgiantfan : 11/24/2014 5:52 pm : link
listening to see this stuff is brutal. This season can't end fast enough. You wait all year. The summer comes to an end and you're like "hey at least football is starting" and "yeah the Giants have a new offense and a bunch of new CBs" then before Novemeber is even over you're saying "this season can't end fast enough".

I can't wait for the superbowl, then dealing with the coldness of february and march, and then finally good weather and draft talk. The last few seasons have just sucked some low grade ass.
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