Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
Bit of both, really. I think coaches go stale with a team after a while. I think Coughlin's getting old. I think that his teams have underwhelmed for the past five years with the exception of a marvelous aberration of 6 weeks in 2011.
I don't agree, but that's not unfair at all.
However I never bought into the "getting stale" thing. Granted I've never been a coach in any sport so what the hell do I know? But there are coaches in different sports that have succeeded for 2 decades or more. I don't believe this team needs a new message...if Coughlin's message (which to me is as solid a message as can possibly be delivered) isn't meshing with the players, then I think we need new players.
I have a hard time believing Coughlin can't coach anymore. Obviously his age has to be a consideration, but unless there's something we don't know about I still think the man is an excellent coach and we're lucky to have him.
This Giants team is very poor, and I expected them to get destroyed yesterday. That they didn't I think only reflects well on him.
Last night's game isn't one of them. The gameplan (running more plays and controlling time of possession against a team built on doing those things) was superb.
Coughlin doesn't deserve a job for life. But if you're looking to get rid of him ask yourself why. Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
If it's the former reason, fair enough. If it's the latter, I don't think that's a good way to proceed forward.
Wouldn't dream of 'punishing' the guy - he's done enough here that he'd have to do something really egregious to earn a punishment.
My only goal is for the Giants to improve - and for two years now, they've been *really* bad. I don't think Coughlin is entirely to blame, but I don't think the Giants have been a well coached team the past two years.
I'd love to think that Coughlin can help turn this around, but I don't see any evidence of that recently. That's not to absolve Reese either, but I think you start with the coaching staff, and if the problem persists then you change the front office as well.
is accountable for the defense. it's not sufficient to delegate strategy and personnel deployment to fewell and then wash your hands of the results. TC is accountable and the D has been abysmal since 2009 except for when they squeaked into the playoffs and everything clicked in 2011. it was bad in 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 and again in 2014 under two different coordinators. that's on TC.
We were caught off guard when Jerry Reese comes out and says to us, “I want to see Damontre Moore out on the field more”. I assume he talked it over with you before he told us.
A: No, we have an open book. As far as communication with front office, as we all as coaches. We would all like to see him play more obviously. He is a talented guy. I think we are all kind of waiting for him to come out of his shell and be consistent in what he does so that we can put him in the football game and get him more snaps.
Q: What have you seen from Mathias Kiwanuka and how he has played? Statistically maybe he hasn’t been getting the sacks like that, what have you seen that keeps him out there?
A: I think Mathias Kiwanuka has played very well, better than he did a year ago in the run game. Obviously, in order to get sacks, in order for Damontre Moore to play more we have to do a better job, which we haven’t done, of playing the run game. I think Mathias Kiwanuka has done an excellent job in our run game for us.
he's an offensive hc. I may be wrong, but I read somewhere the only interaction with Fewell and what the defense gameplan etc etc were met up only on fridays. So I believe the decisions are left up to Fewell on that side of the ball.
I look forward to Fewell "simplifying things" and the Giants Â
is accountable for the defense. it's not sufficient to delegate strategy and personnel deployment to fewell and then wash your hands of the results. TC is accountable and the D has been abysmal since 2009 except for when they squeaked into the playoffs and everything clicked in 2011. it was bad in 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 and again in 2014 under two different coordinators. that's on TC.
"sound reasoning went into it" with "you'd love to be able to do it over"? If your reasoning was sound, you'd do it the same way next time.
bingo, we have a winner.
if you have sound thinking, you say 9 out of 10 times, it happens the way your expect. this was not a freak event. it was the opposite of sound thinking.
The encroachment thing is just Coughlin trying to come up Â
with something to keep from publicly throwing Fewell under the bus. Coughlin can be crochety but he's very protective, too protective of his coaching staff.
"sound thinking" could there be in leaving the sack leader of the team on the bench in a critical end of game drive where the other team is pretty much going to pass constantly?
He was being punished for not having his socks pulled up in the meeting
I thought he said he has say in every aspect of the game Â
is accountable for the defense. it's not sufficient to delegate strategy and personnel deployment to fewell and then wash your hands of the results. TC is accountable and the D has been abysmal since 2009 except for when they squeaked into the playoffs and everything clicked in 2011. it was bad in 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 and again in 2014 under two different coordinators. that's on TC.
The defense actually wasn't bad at all in 2010.
they were good against teams starting career backup/third string quarterbacks like tavaris jackson, kelly holcomb, matt moore and todd collins/rex grossman. they had that one magical night against the bears with cutler. they were inconsistent vs. teams with average QBs like detroit, houston, tennessee and jacksonville. but they were bad against the cowboys (twice), eagles (twice), colts, and packers.the eagles second game (the matt dodge game) and the packers game were basically regular season playoff type games.
is accountable for the defense. it's not sufficient to delegate strategy and personnel deployment to fewell and then wash your hands of the results. TC is accountable and the D has been abysmal since 2009 except for when they squeaked into the playoffs and everything clicked in 2011. it was bad in 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 and again in 2014 under two different coordinators. that's on TC.
The defense actually wasn't bad at all in 2010.
they were good against teams starting career backup/third string quarterbacks like tavaris jackson, kelly holcomb, matt moore and todd collins/rex grossman. they had that one magical night against the bears with cutler. they were inconsistent vs. teams with average QBs like detroit, houston, tennessee and jacksonville. but they were bad against the cowboys (twice), eagles (twice), colts, and packers.the eagles second game (the matt dodge game) and the packers game were basically regular season playoff type games.
Eh.. you could do this for a lot of defenses. Teams that have good defensive years play bad QB's some weeks and they give up numbers against the elite QB's.
It's hard to complain much about a defense that was top 3 in sacks, 1st in turnovers forced, tops in the league in 3rd down defense and top 10 in yards allowed. I think we'd all sign up for that defense right now compared to what we've seen since outside of the Super Bowl run.
Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
Bit of both, really. I think coaches go stale with a team after a while. I think Coughlin's getting old. I think that his teams have underwhelmed for the past five years with the exception of a marvelous aberration of 6 weeks in 2011.
I don't agree, but that's not unfair at all.
However I never bought into the "getting stale" thing. Granted I've never been a coach in any sport so what the hell do I know? But there are coaches in different sports that have succeeded for 2 decades or more. I don't believe this team needs a new message...if Coughlin's message (which to me is as solid a message as can possibly be delivered) isn't meshing with the players, then I think we need new players.
I have a hard time believing Coughlin can't coach anymore. Obviously his age has to be a consideration, but unless there's something we don't know about I still think the man is an excellent coach and we're lucky to have him.
This Giants team is very poor, and I expected them to get destroyed yesterday. That they didn't I think only reflects well on him.
Go Terps thanks for one of the most well reasoned comments today. I too was hoping for just a competitive game and expectations were more than met. This team has a lot of issues. If it's decided to make a HC change, I hope that list in Mara' s pocket is a really good one. Change for change sake has a tendency not to end well.
Last night's game isn't one of them. The gameplan (running more plays and controlling time of possession against a team built on doing those things) was superb.
Coughlin doesn't deserve a job for life. But if you're looking to get rid of him ask yourself why. Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
If it's the former reason, fair enough. If it's the latter, I don't think that's a good way to proceed forward.
Going back to the run to start the third quarter? After Eli and OBJ had destroyed the Cowboys in the first half.
That's called stopping yourself rather than forcing the opponent to stop you.
This game was exhibit A in why Coughlin is having trouble in today's passing-dominated NFL. That and all his talk about balance before the game. Talk about winning, not balance. And take note that most of today's top offenses are passing dominant. The Cowboys are an exception but they are the exception that proves the rule because they have a dominant OL.
Giants do not have that type of dominant OL. Cowboys can go for a balanced attack. Giants cant. They need the passing to flourish in order to open up the running game.
It's true, look at the Patriots, Green Bay, New Orleans, and Denver. They never let off the gas. I know these great offenses can be stopped by great defenses, but how often are you playing a great defense.
That is for the management of the team to dig and do the research and figure that out.
Under this theory, some of the best coaches in the NFL right now would not even have been considered because because you probably didn't know their name or background prior to being named head coaches.
Do this: Make a short list of who you think are the 5 best coaches in the NFL right now not named Belichick. And then look at what job they had previously before being named coach. Would you have hired any of them?
I'm not taking a stand on whether the coach should be replaced or not. But this idea that the fans/media need to come up with a replacement in order for this discussion have any length is ridiculous.
If Coughlin is overruling Fewell and keeping Ayers off the field there, something is very wrong. I'd need to see some concrete proof of that, though.. I find it hard to believe.
My own version of reading between the lines of those quotes is TC asked PF to defend the decision in the meeting room today...i.e. it was PF's decision
In today's NFL can you really say the term stale message is real? Isn't Eli the only person on the team who was on both SB teams and off the top of my head only a handful who were present for the last one. There is so much turnover on rosters in the NFL today, I don't think that term holds water.
Great posts, but I'd disagree with you on the gameplan. I agree with how the first half was called, but not the second. I think we went away from everything that was working and played into the hands of Dallas. We don't have a dominate line or great D to all of the sudden play ball control. They should of kept with what was working.
respects the perogatives of his coordinators and GMs in their areas of responsibility. Thats who he is. Sure he makes suggestions but the final decisions is theirs. Class act TC, can not see him bieng any other way. If he hired them he lives with them or gets rid of them (rarely). That does not go for Reese who was hired by Mara.
RE: Kiwi is a nice guy, who is part of the past success Â
But the reliance on him to be a significant pass rushing starter has hurt the team for more than one season now. He's way past his peak and is a backup now. This is one of the main problems I have with the coaching and self scouting of the front office. They rely way to much on players past performances and think that means they'll give you what they once could.
That leads to band-aid fixes which is what we have seen in the 2013 and 2014 seasons. I think you always want to be a year early than a year late in sports, and the Giants always seem to be a year late on almost every place in every position.
Bingo, moespree, and you can add 2012 for good measure
respects the perogatives of his coordinators and GMs in their areas of responsibility. Thats who he is. Sure he makes suggestions but the final decisions is theirs. Class act TC, can not see him bieng any other way. If he hired them he lives with them or gets rid of them (rarely). That does not go for Reese who was hired by Mara.
You sure have drunk the Coughlin Kool-Aid. So tell me what he is responsible for. Is he just a figure head or inspirational leader?
Fewell zeroed out the coverages & got burned because Williams couldn't cover the TEs & Prince got schooled by Bryant. Last night he tried coverage. Neither plan worked. Actually they worked for half the game. Against Dallas you have to win a shoot out. The Gisnts defense is simply too awful. Moore & Ayers might have played more but then Murray would have been up to about 10 yards a carry. Fewell has a thankless position. He has no linebackers or safeties. And lousy players don't suddenly become great blitzers.
but I don't blame him entirely for the problems on defense. I gave him a pass. There is simply very little talent on the defense. He has had shit to work with for the past 3 years. I don't care who the Giants bring in as the new defensive coordinator the results will not improve by much unless there are serious infusion of talent.
Nobody would ever know that Jim Harbaugh or Andy Reid or Bill Belichick were really good coaches if you never hired someone new. If part of your decision-making process is based in fear of the unknown, you'll never make a decision.
but I don't blame him entirely for the problems on defense. I gave him a pass. There is simply very little talent on the defense. He has had shit to work with for the past 3 years. I don't care who the Giants bring in as the new defensive coordinator the results will not improve by much unless there is serious infusion of talent.
I would take a good hard look at Bowles, but he failed fairly spectacularly in philly before his success in Arizona. I'd need a lot of research
Actually, I believe that Bowles only spent half a season as Philly's DC a. Didn't he take over after their old OL coach took over as DC a and sucked balls? I think Bowles took over at that point and you can't really judge anyone under those circumstances.
If Coughlin had an issue with it during the game though he has the ability to overrule Perry and should have.
In any event, that last drive was all too familiar and was a fucking disaster. Someone's got to get held accountable for it.
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Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
Bit of both, really. I think coaches go stale with a team after a while. I think Coughlin's getting old. I think that his teams have underwhelmed for the past five years with the exception of a marvelous aberration of 6 weeks in 2011.
I don't agree, but that's not unfair at all.
However I never bought into the "getting stale" thing. Granted I've never been a coach in any sport so what the hell do I know? But there are coaches in different sports that have succeeded for 2 decades or more. I don't believe this team needs a new message...if Coughlin's message (which to me is as solid a message as can possibly be delivered) isn't meshing with the players, then I think we need new players.
I have a hard time believing Coughlin can't coach anymore. Obviously his age has to be a consideration, but unless there's something we don't know about I still think the man is an excellent coach and we're lucky to have him.
This Giants team is very poor, and I expected them to get destroyed yesterday. That they didn't I think only reflects well on him.
Coughlin doesn't deserve a job for life. But if you're looking to get rid of him ask yourself why. Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
If it's the former reason, fair enough. If it's the latter, I don't think that's a good way to proceed forward.
Wouldn't dream of 'punishing' the guy - he's done enough here that he'd have to do something really egregious to earn a punishment.
My only goal is for the Giants to improve - and for two years now, they've been *really* bad. I don't think Coughlin is entirely to blame, but I don't think the Giants have been a well coached team the past two years.
I'd love to think that Coughlin can help turn this around, but I don't see any evidence of that recently. That's not to absolve Reese either, but I think you start with the coaching staff, and if the problem persists then you change the front office as well.
A: No, we have an open book. As far as communication with front office, as we all as coaches. We would all like to see him play more obviously. He is a talented guy. I think we are all kind of waiting for him to come out of his shell and be consistent in what he does so that we can put him in the football game and get him more snaps.
Q: What have you seen from Mathias Kiwanuka and how he has played? Statistically maybe he hasn’t been getting the sacks like that, what have you seen that keeps him out there?
A: I think Mathias Kiwanuka has played very well, better than he did a year ago in the run game. Obviously, in order to get sacks, in order for Damontre Moore to play more we have to do a better job, which we haven’t done, of playing the run game. I think Mathias Kiwanuka has done an excellent job in our run game for us.
PF- "I thought about it once, but it would have meant sitting your BC guy down"
TC- "Oh, ok, never mind"
The defense actually wasn't bad at all in 2010.
Open your mouth and adjust during games. Who wants to hear this shit after the game is over.
Exactly you're the head coach but you don't have an answer for players aren't in the game, infuriating.
Nightmare replay of last year.
bingo, we have a winner.
if you have sound thinking, you say 9 out of 10 times, it happens the way your expect. this was not a freak event. it was the opposite of sound thinking.
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winning 4 of the last few games. Just enough to give us a shit draft pick and save TC and Fewell.
Nightmare replay of last year.
No backup qbs this year to salvage the season with false hope
He was being punished for not having his socks pulled up in the meeting
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is accountable for the defense. it's not sufficient to delegate strategy and personnel deployment to fewell and then wash your hands of the results. TC is accountable and the D has been abysmal since 2009 except for when they squeaked into the playoffs and everything clicked in 2011. it was bad in 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 and again in 2014 under two different coordinators. that's on TC.
The defense actually wasn't bad at all in 2010.
they were good against teams starting career backup/third string quarterbacks like tavaris jackson, kelly holcomb, matt moore and todd collins/rex grossman. they had that one magical night against the bears with cutler. they were inconsistent vs. teams with average QBs like detroit, houston, tennessee and jacksonville. but they were bad against the cowboys (twice), eagles (twice), colts, and packers.the eagles second game (the matt dodge game) and the packers game were basically regular season playoff type games.
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In comment 11998729 Les in TO said:
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is accountable for the defense. it's not sufficient to delegate strategy and personnel deployment to fewell and then wash your hands of the results. TC is accountable and the D has been abysmal since 2009 except for when they squeaked into the playoffs and everything clicked in 2011. it was bad in 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 and again in 2014 under two different coordinators. that's on TC.
The defense actually wasn't bad at all in 2010.
they were good against teams starting career backup/third string quarterbacks like tavaris jackson, kelly holcomb, matt moore and todd collins/rex grossman. they had that one magical night against the bears with cutler. they were inconsistent vs. teams with average QBs like detroit, houston, tennessee and jacksonville. but they were bad against the cowboys (twice), eagles (twice), colts, and packers.the eagles second game (the matt dodge game) and the packers game were basically regular season playoff type games.
Eh.. you could do this for a lot of defenses. Teams that have good defensive years play bad QB's some weeks and they give up numbers against the elite QB's.
It's hard to complain much about a defense that was top 3 in sacks, 1st in turnovers forced, tops in the league in 3rd down defense and top 10 in yards allowed. I think we'd all sign up for that defense right now compared to what we've seen since outside of the Super Bowl run.
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In comment 11998673 Go Terps said:
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Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
Bit of both, really. I think coaches go stale with a team after a while. I think Coughlin's getting old. I think that his teams have underwhelmed for the past five years with the exception of a marvelous aberration of 6 weeks in 2011.
I don't agree, but that's not unfair at all.
However I never bought into the "getting stale" thing. Granted I've never been a coach in any sport so what the hell do I know? But there are coaches in different sports that have succeeded for 2 decades or more. I don't believe this team needs a new message...if Coughlin's message (which to me is as solid a message as can possibly be delivered) isn't meshing with the players, then I think we need new players.
I have a hard time believing Coughlin can't coach anymore. Obviously his age has to be a consideration, but unless there's something we don't know about I still think the man is an excellent coach and we're lucky to have him.
This Giants team is very poor, and I expected them to get destroyed yesterday. That they didn't I think only reflects well on him.
Go Terps thanks for one of the most well reasoned comments today. I too was hoping for just a competitive game and expectations were more than met. This team has a lot of issues. If it's decided to make a HC change, I hope that list in Mara' s pocket is a really good one. Change for change sake has a tendency not to end well.
Shaw from Stanford
You want more?
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Last night's game isn't one of them. The gameplan (running more plays and controlling time of possession against a team built on doing those things) was superb.
Coughlin doesn't deserve a job for life. But if you're looking to get rid of him ask yourself why. Is it because you don't think he can coach anymore, or because you want to punish him (i.e. hold him accountable) for these poor two years?
If it's the former reason, fair enough. If it's the latter, I don't think that's a good way to proceed forward.
Going back to the run to start the third quarter? After Eli and OBJ had destroyed the Cowboys in the first half.
That's called stopping yourself rather than forcing the opponent to stop you.
This game was exhibit A in why Coughlin is having trouble in today's passing-dominated NFL. That and all his talk about balance before the game. Talk about winning, not balance. And take note that most of today's top offenses are passing dominant. The Cowboys are an exception but they are the exception that proves the rule because they have a dominant OL.
Giants do not have that type of dominant OL. Cowboys can go for a balanced attack. Giants cant. They need the passing to flourish in order to open up the running game.
It's true, look at the Patriots, Green Bay, New Orleans, and Denver. They never let off the gas. I know these great offenses can be stopped by great defenses, but how often are you playing a great defense.
You want more?
I would take a good hard look at Bowles, but he failed fairly spectacularly in philly before his success in Arizona. I'd need a lot of research
That is not the fans job to name a replacement.
That is for the management of the team to dig and do the research and figure that out.
Under this theory, some of the best coaches in the NFL right now would not even have been considered because because you probably didn't know their name or background prior to being named head coaches.
Do this: Make a short list of who you think are the 5 best coaches in the NFL right now not named Belichick. And then look at what job they had previously before being named coach. Would you have hired any of them?
I'm not taking a stand on whether the coach should be replaced or not. But this idea that the fans/media need to come up with a replacement in order for this discussion have any length is ridiculous.
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If Coughlin is overruling Fewell and keeping Ayers off the field there, something is very wrong. I'd need to see some concrete proof of that, though.. I find it hard to believe.
My own version of reading between the lines of those quotes is TC asked PF to defend the decision in the meeting room today...i.e. it was PF's decision
Exactly
That leads to band-aid fixes which is what we have seen in the 2013 and 2014 seasons. I think you always want to be a year early than a year late in sports, and the Giants always seem to be a year late on almost every place in every position.
Bingo, moespree, and you can add 2012 for good measure
You sure have drunk the Coughlin Kool-Aid. So tell me what he is responsible for. Is he just a figure head or inspirational leader?
Nobody would ever know that Jim Harbaugh or Andy Reid or Bill Belichick were really good coaches if you never hired someone new.
Nobody would ever know that Jim Harbaugh or Andy Reid or Bill Belichick were really good coaches if you never hired someone new. If part of your decision-making process is based in fear of the unknown, you'll never make a decision.
Nobody would ever know that Jim Harbaugh or Andy Reid or Bill Belichick were really good coaches if you never hired someone new.
Nobody would ever know that Jim Harbaugh or Andy Reid or Bill Belichick were really good coaches if you never hired someone new.
Nobody would ever know that Jim Harbaugh or Andy Reid or Bill Belichick were really good coaches if you never hired someone new.
Nobody would ever know that Jim Harbaugh or Andy Reid or Bill Belichick were really good coaches if you never hired someone new.
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Dan Quinn, Eric Gase.
You want more?
I would take a good hard look at Bowles, but he failed fairly spectacularly in philly before his success in Arizona. I'd need a lot of research
Actually, I believe that Bowles only spent half a season as Philly's DC a. Didn't he take over after their old OL coach took over as DC a and sucked balls? I think Bowles took over at that point and you can't really judge anyone under those circumstances.