"MLB historian John Thorn argues analytics prove Joe DiMaggio is not the as great as his legacy makes him out to be. HO/REUTERS MLB historian John Thorn argues analytics prove Joe DiMaggio is not the as great as his legacy makes him out to be.
On the date of what would have been his 100th birthday, the late Joe DiMaggio’s larger-than-life legacy lives on for countless Yankee fans whose opinions of the Hall of Famer are shaped largely by the breathless stories passed down from parents or grandparents.
In short: DiMaggio was the greatest center fielder of all time; no room for argument.
Except the evolution of analytics in baseball, particularly defensive metrics in this case, dispels such a notion, according to John Thorn, the official historian of Major League Baseball.
“There is this image of the Yankee Clipper sailing so gracefully in the outfield that he never had to dive for a ball," Thorn was saying Monday. “But the reality is that his contemporaries rec"orded more putouts."
I obviously never saw DiMaggio play but I had always heard from people (including my "biased" NY/SF Giant loving grandpa that Mays was "no doubt the best ever in CF", I can't offer my opinion on DiMaggio was the opinion always he was the greatest defensive CF ever? I'm not arguing he wasn't, just had always heard Mays, Griffey and Andruw.
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(I'm kidding)
DiMaggio was at the end of his career. In and out of the line-up. Brother Dom played CF for the Sox.
Pretty good read. Gives us a look at a heroic DiMaggio through the eyes of a 10-year old fan as well as reflective views offered by contemporaries and team mates interviewed years later.
DiMaggio was at the end of his career. In and out of the line-up. Brother Dom played CF for the Sox.
Pretty good read. Gives us a look at a heroic DiMaggio through the eyes of a 10-year old fan as well as reflective views offered by contemporaries and team mates interviewed years later.
I'll check it out. I'm trying to get more into reading more about baseball history. Obviously I know what I know but this sounds like a good read.
My mother lived in the Bronx and went to games all the time and told me about Joe D and it seems her remembrance's mimicked the stories of Joe D's defensive ability.
It is hard to judge defensive ability looking at numbers only. That others had more put outs means nothing if the Yankees pitchers were not giving up fly outs to centerfield.
Also Offensively, it was said that had Joe D and Ted Williams had switched teams, taking advantage of both ballparks dimensions, Ted may hit over 600 HRs in HRs despite all his Marine service time and Joe D would be close to 500 hrs.
I am very dubious of revisionist history.
Jupiter, my grandpa said Mays and it wasn't close. He just is somewhat biased as a huge Giants fan lol But I thought that was the "general" agreement amongst the masses? That Mays was "the greatest" in CF.
My mother lived in the Bronx and went to games all the time and told me about Joe D and it seems her remembrance's mimicked the stories of Joe D's defensive ability.
It is hard to judge defensive ability looking at numbers only. That others had more put outs means nothing if the Yankees pitchers were not giving up fly outs to centerfield.
Also Offensively, it was said that had Joe D and Ted Williams had switched teams, taking advantage of both ballparks dimensions, Ted may hit over 600 HRs in HRs despite all his Marine service time and Joe D would be close to 500 hrs.
I am very dubious of revisionist history.
I used to have 2 older neighbors (RIP) who lived in the same building as a bunch of the Yankees and one of them said one day she found Joe DiMaggio (and others) climbing down through her terrace to get somewhere else. I forget the details but one of those wild stories you can't even believe.
Mays 22 years, 36 HR, 103 RBI .302 BA
DiMaggio 13 years, 34 HR, 143 RBI, .325 BA
Mays 22 years, 36 HR, 103 RBI .302 BA
DiMaggio 13 years, 34 HR, 143 RBI, .325 BA
Bill,
This article is only about the defensive side of the game. This historian is arguing defensively DiMaggio was not the best CF ever.
Quote:
162 game averages:
Mays 22 years, 36 HR, 103 RBI .302 BA
DiMaggio 13 years, 34 HR, 143 RBI, .325 BA
Bill,
This article is only about the defensive side of the game. This historian is arguing defensively DiMaggio was not the best CF ever.
Dan, Did you see my first post? I don't think his interpretation of "best CF ever" is the correct one.
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Exactly. Yankees hating/trolling.
Greg,
I'll def check it out. Not much to do baseball wise until ST, the Knicks and Giants have given me extra free time lol
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'evolution of analytics'? Does that equal scueing more to the modern era data?
I could be more understanding of that perspective if the writer was GARY Thorn(e).
Without any of that it is just a bunch of prejudiced memories of fans of different teams. Exactly the thing that metrics is supposed to overcome. But without a good data set its hard to really be definitive.
At the end of the day, does it matter who was the best. There is a long way from "the best ever" to saying he was over-rated. But it gets us talking.
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Big deal. Odell could have done that without the glove
WOW, look at that wall.
Stadium design by Fred and Jeff Wilpon.
He was very graceful and his "never dove" style of play has been romanticized. But based on what I've read, I think it's a fair assumption to make that DiMaggio wasn't a historically great defensive OFer like a Mays, a Speaker, an Ashurn, or even his brother. I think there's definitely a little "Jeter" to DiMaggio when it comes to fielding perception. Smoother than he was good.
It was an absolute joke when DiMaggio was named "The Greatest Living Player" in '69. First of all, Ted Williams was better. Second of all, Willie Mays was better. 3rd of all, Stan Musial was better. 4th of all, Mickey Mantle was better. I also get slight douche chills thinking about how DiMaggio demanded to be called "The Greatest Living Player" when he was older. Talk about an ego.
Still, he was an amazing player and one of the greatest ever. The War took a chunk out of his career and he could've added to his career resume. But he's definitely a tiny bit overrated historically due to how important a Pop Icon he was.
Home: 880 games, .315/.391/.546, 148 HR
Road: 856 games, .333/.405/.610, 213 HR
Yankee Stadium absolutely depressed his production at the plate. Overrated, maybe, but still an incredible player.
-9 Rings in 13 seasons (wow)