Historically speaking, the Giants have not been a franchise that has exercised its option to use the franchise tag on its players. If I'm remembering correctly, Weatherford is the only player to receive that designation.
JPP is one of the most difficult looming free agent decisions the Giants have had to make in the Reese era. A player with incredibly freakish athletic ability, at times game changing dominant but has largely been disappointing since 2011. Factors to also consider: not always healthy and lack of talent around him.
The Giants probably do not want to lose their former 1st round pick, but assuming JPP & agent want top tier money, the front office is probably leery at this point of giving him a long term deal that would need to average $14-17 million a year.
Do you consider JPP a candidate for the franchise tag? The exclusive version of the tag in 2014 was $13.1 million a year. The average of the top 5 salaries at the position. This number does not include JJ Watt's $16MM per year deal.
Once you factor in Watt's deal, the average of the top 5 salaries for DEs for next year would be $14.5 Million. That number could move slightly down if certain contracts are terminated, or way up if bigger contracts are added in the offseason. The salary cap is projected to grow 7%.
The franchise tag would make JPP one of the highest paid players on the 2015 roster, but not lock the Giants into a long term high average contract they may not be comfortable giving following the 2014 season.
This guy is average at best. When he's gone against top LT he's been a non factor. And you add the injury tag to him and I would be very leery to giving him a long term contract.
So you don't understand that a franchise tag is a 1 year deal? The whole point of being concerned giving him a big deal for long term is more reason to consider a 1 year franchise tag.
Keeping JPP would, in my view, continue that trend.
Please cite example of average players that we held for too long or overpayed. Average players don't have seasons like JPP had in 2011 for the record.
Keeping JPP would, in my view, continue that trend.
I agree that Reese made a series of mistakes with overpaying older OLs and probably with Beason. But he's also made some mistakes with Linval, the Black Unicorn and probably Bradshaw, not retaining players who can contribute. I see JPP as more fitting the latter category.
JPP is not the player he was in 2011 and I don't think he ever will be. That player from 2011 was outstanding. This player is a good run defender with below average pass rushing technique.
Quote:
I think the team has ended up in this predicament because they either hold on to average players too long or overpay to keep them.
Keeping JPP would, in my view, continue that trend.
Please cite example of average players that we held for too long or overpayed. Average players don't have seasons like JPP had in 2011 for the record.
Kiwi
Your post was to give an example of an average player we held on for too long, not whether JPP was an average player.
I get the reasons for keeping him or franchising him or whatever. I just disagree. Even moreso over the course of this thread. If it were up to me, I'd just cut bait now and move on. Consider him another failed draft pick - a dim bulb with a big mouth - and look for a replacement.
Thats just my opinion. Like I said, I get what you're saying, I just disagree.
kmed : 12:23 pm : link : reply
Which guys on the OL have JPP potential that were paid big bucks have held us back.
As far as his potential - like I said - I don't see it anymore.
And it isn't like we're letting go of JPP to make sure we can sign other young Giants to long-term contracts, right?
Guy is an above average player at absolute worst and was all world in '11. Plus that blocked FG in Dallas, one of the biggest plays in Giants history.
Now, he has disappointed based on the how high the bar was set after '11. He probably has not adjusted well to being "the guy". He certainly no longer has as strong a supporting case around him on the D line.
It comes down to cost and cap management. I do not know enough about it to make the call and I think the Giants have to blow up the whole D. Rebuild it soup to nuts.
That said, JPP maybe the best player on the D and one of the few to build around. To me it all comes down to cost. Whether it makes the most sense to franchise him or not related to the cap I am not sure.
I am sure though, that despite what disappointment there is about this season and JPP's failed expectations, that he is not a draft bust.
You're talking about potential from 3 years ago.
???
Franchise is for proven players, not ones you hope will pan out. and you only franchise if your team is devastated without him.
The problem with JPP is that the team is worse without him (because, honestly, who replaces him that is definitely in the fold?). But, the team isn't all that good with him. I'm the first to admit I'm not much of a talent evaluator, but when I key on JPP, I see a guy who gets shut down fairly easily.
It's a problem because we will be worse letting him go, but we won't get better keeping him, and status quo simply isn't acceptable.
You tag him, he has a bad year, he walks the following year. Not sure how you couldn't figure that one out.
Thats a lot of money. Money that can be used this year to fill other holes.
Just because the Giants let him go doesn't mean they are stuck with a hole there. Its extremely rare that a player is so good they are irreplaceable. And JPP certainly isn't that player. Like I said before, we see other teams let their star players go all the time. But they move on and find someone else. Carolina moved on from Julius Peppers just fine, off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others that have as well.
They were right though. He never regained his dominant form and we are better off with a better player in Beckham Jr. The same would happen with JPP. He'd leave and people would be upset in the short term - worrying about how the Giants will ever replace the huge hole he left behind.
Then they draft someone new who is better and we're all happy again.
That's not to make light of the fact that some of these guys just weren't very good to begin with, but I don't think good talent can win if everyone is playing well below their max.
JPP might be better with a different coach, but I don't think it stops at Fewell. If the staff returns and we get another DC, I think we see marginal improvement at best (especially if he's moved to RDE). Might also get an additional boost because that'll truly be his contract year, but you could also end up with him complaining about a hurting back and making 'business decisions'.
But seriously? you would spend 14 mil guaranteed on a player you're not sure is worth it? If you think he's worth it, it's a different discussion. But if you're not sure? seriously?
At this point, the Giants know what they have in JPP. If you think he's worth it, sign him long term. 14 mil is a starting point for guaranteed money. Franchising him means he gets that this year, and again next year when you sign him long term. IF you don't know what you have, let him walk now. it's too big a gamble.
Wouldn't be to difficult to find someone else who can improve on his 6 sacks a season while holding up against the run, and costing less. And maybe even bring an attitude improvement. He talks a lot of crap and doesn't back it up, and he seems immature. I'm just ready to move on.
He still shows flashes of brilliance yet dissapears for long stretches. You pay guys like Mario Williams, Mathis and Ware who continually put up 10+ sacks, regardless of the team.
Quote:
I think the team has ended up in this predicament because they either hold on to average players too long or overpay to keep them.
Keeping JPP would, in my view, continue that trend.
Please cite example of average players that we held for too long or overpayed. Average players don't have seasons like JPP had in 2011 for the record.
Diehl, Snee
Beatty for 100% sure.
Teams clearly key on JPP. That's not an excuse for his poor stats, he hasn't been great this year, but he's the guy teams focus on blocking.
All that I've noticed is that he's routinely controlled by the LT without help. Maybe I've missed something. THIS was the year for JPP to reach his potential. He's supposedly been healthy since the middle of last season.