Historically speaking, the Giants have not been a franchise that has exercised its option to use the franchise tag on its players. If I'm remembering correctly, Weatherford is the only player to receive that designation.
JPP is one of the most difficult looming free agent decisions the Giants have had to make in the Reese era. A player with incredibly freakish athletic ability, at times game changing dominant but has largely been disappointing since 2011. Factors to also consider: not always healthy and lack of talent around him.
The Giants probably do not want to lose their former 1st round pick, but assuming JPP & agent want top tier money, the front office is probably leery at this point of giving him a long term deal that would need to average $14-17 million a year.
Do you consider JPP a candidate for the franchise tag? The exclusive version of the tag in 2014 was $13.1 million a year. The average of the top 5 salaries at the position. This number does not include JJ Watt's $16MM per year deal.
Once you factor in Watt's deal, the average of the top 5 salaries for DEs for next year would be $14.5 Million. That number could move slightly down if certain contracts are terminated, or way up if bigger contracts are added in the offseason. The salary cap is projected to grow 7%.
The franchise tag would make JPP one of the highest paid players on the 2015 roster, but not lock the Giants into a long term high average contract they may not be comfortable giving following the 2014 season.
Whereas, even signing JPP to a long term deal with an AAV = $14.5M would likely count only $7-8M against the 2015 cap.
+1
You franchise tag difference makers. JPP is an above average defensive lineman who frequently disappears during stretches and whose upside future potential is a big question makr,
He's not JJ Watt like we all hoped, but he's still a very good player.
This I would agree with. He right now is not woth $14 mill per season. Put a 1st rd tag on him and see if other teams try to sign him at more money.
He's not "chopped liver".
And he will probably go on a sack streak these next few weeks. The competition levels off.
JPP was unbelievable in '11. Since that year he's never approached his dominance.
You can't really pay a player based on potential though. Because if that potential doesn't work out, you are screwed cap-wise.
If the Giants can work out some type of deal that pays JPP well and also protects them if he doesn't improve on his pedestrian numbers then I think it might work out. I doubt that happens, however. He strikes me as someone who is going to go to the highest bidder.
The rookie contract is for potential. The 2nd contract is for results. He hasn't produced enough.
Yeah, he's still young, but has not shown that he can get back to what he was in 2011. Do you put a franchise tag and have to pay him top 5 DE money for a guy that hasn't deserved it? I think that would be foolish.
Robert Ayers has 5, and Damontre Moore as 3 - both with dramatically less playing time.
So you can't franchise JPP, because then you are paying him like a top 5 DE.
Would he play better with a DC that actually knows what they hell they are doing? If we had dealt with the underperforming Fewell 2 or 3 years ago we would know the answer to that.
Would he play better at LDE where he is better suited?
Would he play better if our other starter at DE was at least an average player? The use of our personnel on the DLine is a headscratcher. For a scheme that relies so much on a passrush from only the front 4 how is kiwi still a starter? what happened to the NASCAR package the last few weeks? Why is Ayers and Moore not getting more run in passing situations?
JPP is certainly a talented player but i wouldnt give him a huge long term contract and id be hesistant to even give him a 14mil franchise tag. Like somebody said above id more lean to the transition tag but dont really remember all the details and requirements of that.
That kind of loyalty to people who didn't earn it was what got the Giants into that black hole of awfulness we remember in the 1970s. I don't think they'll make that mistake again.
That kind of loyalty to people who didn't earn it was what got the Giants into that black hole of awfulness we remember in the 1970s. I don't think they'll make that mistake again.
Except that if you let JPP walk, this talent-depleted defense gets even depleteder. With JPP gone, you are facing a 2015 defense with 1 (count it , 1) plus player in the front 7, that player being Hankins.
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and he's part of a successful combination. Then you get to be generous and a little softhearted. But if the team is losing, as it is, you get ruthless. Nobody gets overpaid after back-to-back seasons like this. It's pay for performance only. You're better off bottoming out and [i]really[i/] starting over than paying guys who are very good (like JPP, Rolle) as if they are great.
That kind of loyalty to people who didn't earn it was what got the Giants into that black hole of awfulness we remember in the 1970s. I don't think they'll make that mistake again.
Except that if you let JPP walk, this talent-depleted defense gets even depleteder. With JPP gone, you are facing a 2015 defense with 1 (count it , 1) plus player in the front 7, that player being Hankins.
How does it get even depleteder when there are two defensive ends on the roster already who have been better at pressuring the QB in Ayers and Moore? And you have to ask yourself, if these guys can get to the QB in very limited opportunities, why can't Pierre Paul?
I know Coughlin doesn't work this way, but firing Fewell after the Jags game wouldn't be a dumb decision. People like Giunta have been NFL DCs and Jim Herrman was the Michigan DC for almost a decade. You have some experienced people coaching that defense. An interim DC would be given a mandate to switch things up to see if any of the young players emerge.
If building through the draft is the way to build your talent base, the corrolary is that - once you have a good young player on your team - you retain your draftees after their rookie contract. The two ideas are interlinked.
This guy is average at best. When he's gone against top LT he's been a non factor. And you add the injury tag to him and I would be very leery to giving him a long term contract.
Keeping JPP would, in my view, continue that trend.
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In comment 12000578 81_Great_Dane said:
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and he's part of a successful combination. Then you get to be generous and a little softhearted. But if the team is losing, as it is, you get ruthless. Nobody gets overpaid after back-to-back seasons like this. It's pay for performance only. You're better off bottoming out and [i]really[i/] starting over than paying guys who are very good (like JPP, Rolle) as if they are great.
That kind of loyalty to people who didn't earn it was what got the Giants into that black hole of awfulness we remember in the 1970s. I don't think they'll make that mistake again.
Except that if you let JPP walk, this talent-depleted defense gets even depleteder. With JPP gone, you are facing a 2015 defense with 1 (count it , 1) plus player in the front 7, that player being Hankins.
How does it get even depleteder when there are two defensive ends on the roster already who have been better at pressuring the QB in Ayers and Moore? And you have to ask yourself, if these guys can get to the QB in very limited opportunities, why can't Pierre Paul?
Teams clearly key on JPP. That's not an excuse for his poor stats, he hasn't been great this year, but he's the guy teams focus on blocking.
You don't pay a guy for past performance, you pay guys for what they will do in the future. JPP has a lot of untapped potential that sometimes takes longer to tap. I just don't see any scenario in which we let him walk for nothing.
This guy is average at best. When he's gone against top LT he's been a non factor. And you add the injury tag to him and I would be very leery to giving him a long term contract.
So you don't understand that a franchise tag is a 1 year deal? The whole point of being concerned giving him a big deal for long term is more reason to consider a 1 year franchise tag.
Keeping JPP would, in my view, continue that trend.
Please cite example of average players that we held for too long or overpayed. Average players don't have seasons like JPP had in 2011 for the record.