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The big decision facing Giants is Eli...

MikeN in Ottawa : 11/26/2014 10:42 am
I've read a number of articles this week about the big decisions facing the Giants. Some have posted here that they would like to see Ryan Nassib start and see what we might have there.

But, clearly, in my opinion, the big decision facing the Giants is whether they feel Eli is still a franchise QB and how many good years do they feel he has left? All other decisions on how to move forward cannot be made until this single question is answered. Because if Giants management do not feel Eli is good for another 4-5 years then it is time to blow everything up now and start over.

However, if they do believe he has 4-5 good years left then this should determine what they do in this off season and the draft. Now, I am not suggesting they extend Eli yet. He will be 34 next year and on the last year of his contract. Still, if they feel he is still their guy then the focus must be to continue to beef up the offense, especially the offensive line, and focus our draft in that vein.

I see nothing in Eli that indicates he cannot play at a high level. My feeling remains the same...you give him a competent offensive line with a good running game and he will win for you especially now with the emergence of OBJ. Eli has never had a major injury and remains a constant...he is there every week. There is no reason to believe he cannot continue to play at a very high level if he is given some help.

Thus, my focus, if I am Jerry Reese (assuming he stays) is to build the offensive line with high draft picks and continued development of Pugh and Richburg along with Schwartz. I am not sure what we do with Beatty. His contract may preclude cutting him but I would certainly look to move him in a trade if that is possible. Nonetheless, spending at least one or two high draft picks on an offensive lineman is an absolute necessity. I would add veteran OL help, second tier free agents, for depth.

I am not sure how to fix the D outside of a new coordinator. I definitely would not spend big time money to keep JPP. Assuming we re-sign Thurmond and he comes back healthy, we should be set at cornerback. Equally, I would try to keep Rolle but at a team friendly price. We certainly need to add another safety and see what Berhe can do. Hopefully, Brown can get back to his form as it normally takes two years after an ACL injury. At LB, continue to see growth from Kennard and perhaps restructure Beason based on his injury history. Putting McLain back at his natural OLB spot would be beneficial also. Certainly, we need to see what Moore can do on the d-line and we need more depth at DT. Jenkins is getting old and Patterson does not have it anymore. I would offer JPP a team friendly deal but no way do I overpay for him.

Finally, we have to improve special teams return teams in a major way. We get nothing from special teams and that has to change.

I believe, if we do this, we can once again be a contender in two years for a Super Bowl. I think we could return to the playoffs next year based on this happening but to get to the elite status again we need a little more time. As in any scenario, you are never as bad as everyone thinks or as good as everyone thinks. It is always somewhere in the middle. In the modern NFL, you can turn it around quickly if you have good drafts and are smart in FA. We've done a little to rebuild the OL by drafting Pugh, Richburg and signing Schwartz. I think we can help build this unit by adding another good high draft pick. Add depth with another and some veteran FAs.

Concluding, the big decision is not JPP or Rolle or anyone but Eli...and I think he is still a top level QB with 5 more good years left. But, Eli is a quarterback who does need some help to make him better namely a running game and an offensive line that gives him some protection. I have never seen Eli with happy feet until this year. Once again, all the fun will be seeing what moves the Giants ownership makes in early January.
He's  
AcidTest : 11/26/2014 10:46 am : link
been healthy, but QBs get old in a hurry. I respect that others have a different option, but I would not extend Eli. Just pay him the $17M next season, and franchise him the season after that if necessary. That gives the Giants another two years to evaluate Nassib.
I don't know how you  
Josh in the City : 11/26/2014 10:47 am : link
give Eli anything close to franchise QB money right now. I wait until I see how he plays next season before I make that decision.
The big decision  
JoeCabbie : 11/26/2014 10:47 am : link
is really how many trade Eli threads we need. I say 2 dozen....today!!!
.  
Britt in VA : 11/26/2014 10:48 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: He's  
TomTom : 11/26/2014 10:51 am : link
In comment 12002115 AcidTest said:
Quote:
been healthy, but QBs get old in a hurry. I respect that others have a different option, but I would not extend Eli. Just pay him the $17M next season, and franchise him the season after that if necessary. That gives the Giants another two years to evaluate Nassib.


If you were going to this wouldn't it be better to give him a 3 year extension and lower his cap number to help build the rest of the team?
Good Post, Reasoned and Reasonable,  
clatterbuck : 11/26/2014 10:53 am : link
I think the decision on Eli already has been made. Let's hope the front office takes care of the rest of the issues you cite.
RE: I don't know how you  
Randy in CT : 11/26/2014 10:55 am : link
In comment 12002118 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
give Eli anything close to franchise QB money right now. I wait until I see how he plays next season before I make that decision.
Dumb game is STRONG with this one.
How many qbs in this league  
NewYorksFinest : 11/26/2014 10:58 am : link
Would you rather have than Eli Manning? I see threads in here daily on Manning. These parting way articles the idiots in the press write is ridiculous. There has been ONE qb in the last 4 years that is playing at a franchise level, that being andrew luck. With that said..Besides rodgers and possibly luck...who would you rather have manning (no pun intended) this team?

5-10 years from now...we will miss the Eli manning era..

Shit...we almost missed kerry collins at one point :)
There were absolutely people here 2 years ago that would have traded  
Britt in VA : 11/26/2014 10:59 am : link
Eli Manning for RG3. A large contingent, actually.

Those people are these people.
Some people just don't get it.  
drkenneth : 11/26/2014 10:59 am : link
ELI
MANNING
IS
GETTING
AN EXTENSION
FROM...
THE
NEW YORK
FOOTBALL
GIANTS

There are no ifs, ands or buts about it.
^^^  
NewYorksFinest : 11/26/2014 11:00 am : link
^^^^ what he said..
This is a no brainer, especially if you look at the Giants'  
Curtis in VA : 11/26/2014 11:01 am : link
tendencies. Eli isn't going anywhere.
RE: RE: I don't know how you  
Chef : 11/26/2014 11:05 am : link
In comment 12002142 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12002118 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


give Eli anything close to franchise QB money right now. I wait until I see how he plays next season before I make that decision.

Dumb game is STRONG with this one.

Agreed Randy

I mean why would you give a Franchise Quarterback Franchise money?
I don't think it's a question at all....  
Wonderphil11 : 11/26/2014 11:06 am : link
Eli stays and will get a new deal that he's happy with and will give the team some flexibility....how is this a question?
RE: He's  
Giantology : 11/26/2014 11:07 am : link
In comment 12002115 AcidTest said:
Quote:
been healthy, but QBs get old in a hurry. I respect that others have a different option, but I would not extend Eli. Just pay him the $17M next season, and franchise him the season after that if necessary. That gives the Giants another two years to evaluate Nassib.


QBs get old in a hurry? Not sure about that one. There have been plenty of all-time greats who played some pretty damn good ball in their late years. It's not the case for all of them, but it's not like Eli's arm is gonna fall off in 3 years
If the Giants...  
Wonderphil11 : 11/26/2014 11:10 am : link
had the first pick in the draft and Andrew Luck were available this year.....they'd trade the pick.
Its this..  
Coughlin's Rules : 11/26/2014 11:11 am : link
Whoever wrote it Bravo
Only a fool would think about getting rid of Eli Manning especially with a full blown star in Beckham coming of age. Look at what Manning does with that one star receiver on the roster capable of opening the playbook. Plaxico SB 42. Hakeem SB 46. Eli has three rings written all over him and that third ring has Odell Beckham written all over it. Give Eli a decent line and watch.

Three of the greatest catches in NFL history have spun off of Eli Manning’s hand. Giants fans really don’t deserve this, but if their GM can fix that OLINE and Dline, they’re getting that fifth ring.
Eli needs an offensive line.  
NyquistX3 : 11/26/2014 11:14 am : link
Go build him one and I bet he performs like a top QB. Eli makes poor decisions when he's consistently rushed and tries to do too much. The last two seasons his protection has been putrid. Not many QBs would flourish behind that. I am 100% confident in Eli's skills as a passer when he gets enough time.

Trading Eli or "moving on" from him would be a disaster. Does anybody really want to live through the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kanell era again? QBs are not easy to find. Odds are the guy who replaces Eli is significantly worse. We already have an excellent QB. Give him a line in front of him.
I'd like to be conservative with Eli's tenure  
JonC : 11/26/2014 11:31 am : link
but the reality is, imv, NYG will seek to secure him for 2-3 seasons in addition to '15, unless they somehow wind up with a franchise QB from the '15 draft.

He's a proven franchise QB, will be 34 next season, and they don't grow on trees, especially ones with two SB wins in their back pocket.

If you somehow land Mariota next Spring? Then it's a potentially different ballgame.
RE: I'd like to be conservative with Eli's tenure  
BillT : 11/26/2014 11:49 am : link
In comment 12002217 JonC said:
Quote:
but the reality is, imv, NYG will seek to secure him for 2-3 seasons in addition to '15, unless they somehow wind up with a franchise QB from the '15 draft.


More like 4 or 5 more seasons. Re upping him for any less would be an insult.
I don't think they'll re-up him that long  
JonC : 11/26/2014 11:53 am : link
you're talking age 38-39 in that case, and he's not Peyton or Brady. Three years tacked onto his current deal, or four new years tearing up '15, makes sense for the team.
Jon  
BillT : 11/26/2014 11:55 am : link
We'll see. I think 5 years total is a minimum. Now, they may not guarantee up front money for the last couple of years but the contract will be 5 years in length minimum.
RE: Eli needs an offensive line.  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 11:57 am : link
In comment 12002202 NyquistX3 said:
Quote:
Go build him one and I bet he performs like a top QB. Eli makes poor decisions when he's consistently rushed and tries to do too much. The last two seasons his protection has been putrid. Not many QBs would flourish behind that. I am 100% confident in Eli's skills as a passer when he gets enough time.

Trading Eli or "moving on" from him would be a disaster. Does anybody really want to live through the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kanell era again? QBs are not easy to find. Odds are the guy who replaces Eli is significantly worse. We already have an excellent QB. Give him a line in front of him.
So, all we need is a top offensive line, a top running game and top receivers and Eli will win. No shit. Kyle Orton might win with that combo too. The question is, and the OP dances around it by stating his conclusion and reasoning backward, are we able to secure those benefits and rebuild the defense while devoting 1/6 of the cap to the qb spot and a 35 y/o qb?

That's the question the Giants brass will have to answer and it's not an easy question. It is interesting that they basically ate the cap cost this season instead of re-doing his contract last season. Don't know if that is any window into their thinking.

I certainly think they will try and extend him, but it is going to depend on what Manning wants. Tough decision.
Some  
SoZKillA : 11/26/2014 11:59 am : link
Of the Eli threads are moronic.

It's not rocket science. When Eli is given time, he is a top QB in this league. Build the OL and Eli will make the throws. Simple.
RE: Jon  
JonC : 11/26/2014 12:04 pm : link
In comment 12002256 BillT said:
Quote:
We'll see. I think 5 years total is a minimum. Now, they may not guarantee up front money for the last couple of years but the contract will be 5 years in length minimum.


Condon will certainly insist on such a deal, and structure would be key, I'd agree.
RE: RE: Eli needs an offensive line.  
drkenneth : 11/26/2014 12:08 pm : link
In comment 12002258 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12002202 NyquistX3 said:


Quote:


Go build him one and I bet he performs like a top QB. Eli makes poor decisions when he's consistently rushed and tries to do too much. The last two seasons his protection has been putrid. Not many QBs would flourish behind that. I am 100% confident in Eli's skills as a passer when he gets enough time.

Trading Eli or "moving on" from him would be a disaster. Does anybody really want to live through the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kanell era again? QBs are not easy to find. Odds are the guy who replaces Eli is significantly worse. We already have an excellent QB. Give him a line in front of him.

So, all we need is a top offensive line, a top running game and top receivers and Eli will win. No shit. Kyle Orton might win with that combo too. The question is, and the OP dances around it by stating his conclusion and reasoning backward, are we able to secure those benefits and rebuild the defense while devoting 1/6 of the cap to the qb spot and a 35 y/o qb?

That's the question the Giants brass will have to answer and it's not an easy question. It is interesting that they basically ate the cap cost this season instead of re-doing his contract last season. Don't know if that is any window into their thinking.

I certainly think they will try and extend him, but it is going to depend on what Manning wants. Tough decision.


It's really not a tough decision, despite whatever is floating around in your head.
Great idea  
gmenatlarge : 11/26/2014 12:15 pm : link
get rid of Eli...then we can be the Jets!
The Franchise QB  
Rob in Corvallis : 11/26/2014 1:15 pm : link
threw away the 49er game and the Dallas game back to back. You want 5 more years of that? It's not all on the O line , some of the INT's are unforgivable. The teams in a 5 year decline and needs a full re-boot.
Who are you replacing Eli with?  
JonC : 11/26/2014 1:22 pm : link
Given the upcoming UFA QBs, and potential draft picks?

Are you comfortable handing the job to Nassib?

NYG isn't going to move on from Eli without a significant replacement in hand.
RE: RE: Eli needs an offensive line.  
NyquistX3 : 11/26/2014 1:36 pm : link
In comment 12002258 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12002202 NyquistX3 said:


Quote:


Go build him one and I bet he performs like a top QB. Eli makes poor decisions when he's consistently rushed and tries to do too much. The last two seasons his protection has been putrid. Not many QBs would flourish behind that. I am 100% confident in Eli's skills as a passer when he gets enough time.

Trading Eli or "moving on" from him would be a disaster. Does anybody really want to live through the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kanell era again? QBs are not easy to find. Odds are the guy who replaces Eli is significantly worse. We already have an excellent QB. Give him a line in front of him.

So, all we need is a top offensive line, a top running game and top receivers and Eli will win. No shit. Kyle Orton might win with that combo too. The question is, and the OP dances around it by stating his conclusion and reasoning backward, are we able to secure those benefits and rebuild the defense while devoting 1/6 of the cap to the qb spot and a 35 y/o qb?

That's the question the Giants brass will have to answer and it's not an easy question. It is interesting that they basically ate the cap cost this season instead of re-doing his contract last season. Don't know if that is any window into their thinking.

I certainly think they will try and extend him, but it is going to depend on what Manning wants. Tough decision.


Nice strawman. I didn't say that the Giants needed both a top running game and top receivers. This is what we call a logical fallacy.

What I said was that Eli needs an offensive line to give him time to throw.
Who knows if Nassib can play  
Rob in Corvallis : 11/26/2014 1:52 pm : link
if he's never given a chance? I say play him for next 5 games and see what he can do. If they lose all five games, better draft pick.
It was a response to the OP's statement  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 2:00 pm : link
"you give him a competent offensive line with a good running game"
RE: RE: Eli needs an offensive line.  
dep026 : 11/26/2014 2:01 pm : link
In comment 12002258 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 12002202 NyquistX3 said:


Quote:


Go build him one and I bet he performs like a top QB. Eli makes poor decisions when he's consistently rushed and tries to do too much. The last two seasons his protection has been putrid. Not many QBs would flourish behind that. I am 100% confident in Eli's skills as a passer when he gets enough time.

Trading Eli or "moving on" from him would be a disaster. Does anybody really want to live through the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kanell era again? QBs are not easy to find. Odds are the guy who replaces Eli is significantly worse. We already have an excellent QB. Give him a line in front of him.

So, all we need is a top offensive line, a top running game and top receivers and Eli will win. No shit. Kyle Orton might win with that combo too. The question is, and the OP dances around it by stating his conclusion and reasoning backward, are we able to secure those benefits and rebuild the defense while devoting 1/6 of the cap to the qb spot and a 35 y/o qb?

That's the question the Giants brass will have to answer and it's not an easy question. It is interesting that they basically ate the cap cost this season instead of re-doing his contract last season. Don't know if that is any window into their thinking.

I certainly think they will try and extend him, but it is going to depend on what Manning wants. Tough decision.


Giants ranks outside the QB position:

Drops - 2nd in the NFL
Rushing YPC - 29th in the NFL
Defense: 27th in PPG and 31st in YPG
Defensive/ST TDs: 32nd in the NFL

Lets forget the word "top" and fill it with the word "adequate". Because there isnt anything adequate about this team.
RE: RE: RE: Eli needs an offensive line.  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 2:02 pm : link
In comment 12002291 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12002258 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 12002202 NyquistX3 said:


Quote:


Go build him one and I bet he performs like a top QB. Eli makes poor decisions when he's consistently rushed and tries to do too much. The last two seasons his protection has been putrid. Not many QBs would flourish behind that. I am 100% confident in Eli's skills as a passer when he gets enough time.

Trading Eli or "moving on" from him would be a disaster. Does anybody really want to live through the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kanell era again? QBs are not easy to find. Odds are the guy who replaces Eli is significantly worse. We already have an excellent QB. Give him a line in front of him.

So, all we need is a top offensive line, a top running game and top receivers and Eli will win. No shit. Kyle Orton might win with that combo too. The question is, and the OP dances around it by stating his conclusion and reasoning backward, are we able to secure those benefits and rebuild the defense while devoting 1/6 of the cap to the qb spot and a 35 y/o qb?

That's the question the Giants brass will have to answer and it's not an easy question. It is interesting that they basically ate the cap cost this season instead of re-doing his contract last season. Don't know if that is any window into their thinking.

I certainly think they will try and extend him, but it is going to depend on what Manning wants. Tough decision.



It's really not a tough decision, despite whatever is floating around in your head.
Dollars are capped and not unlimited. It's not an easy decision.
RE: It was a response to the OP's statement  
NyquistX3 : 11/26/2014 4:17 pm : link
In comment 12002572 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
"you give him a competent offensive line with a good running game"


So why did you quote my post and not the OPs?
We should draft 2 OL in our top 3 picks?  
Bill in UT : 11/26/2014 4:35 pm : link
I'm probably forgetting someone, but off the top of my head it seems like the last 3 guys we drafted in Rds. 1-2 were Beatty, Pugh and Richburg, none of them looking like Pro-Bowlers at the present time. So great in theory, but our scouting/drafting/coaching can't be depended on
RE: Some  
NyquistX3 : 11/26/2014 4:36 pm : link
In comment 12002260 SoZKillA said:
Quote:
Of the Eli threads are moronic.

It's not rocket science. When Eli is given time, he is a top QB in this league. Build the OL and Eli will make the throws. Simple.


This.
Eli  
Dragon : 11/26/2014 4:48 pm : link
Is a Giant QB that will go down in history for his two SB wins but in truth he has been an average QB during his career. You don't have to look any further than his team record it's nothing special and very average totally. We are talking about the #1 pick in the draft who no matter what his haters or lovers say has done just enough to keep people asking is this the best he can do. He has kept us on our toes and damn near the operating table since his arrival. Man would I love to say this is a special QB but he is just not special and does not bring out the best in his teammates always.

He could last three or five more years but his physical skills have never been special and even in this dart throwing offense all his faults still remain. Everyone now says the injury to Cruz killed us but it's not like they were destroying the league before the injury. The OL has faults but every team has had to adjust or replace starters. He has always been regarded as one of the smartest QB's in the game but has stretches were we all wonder WTH is going on with him. We all wanted to win 10-12 games and make the playoffs guess what that dream is dead him and our starters killed it no one else. You can blame the GM, Coaches, injury and players but in the end the players did not perform and once again he is the franchise. He is the leader of the team he gets the glory and the blame it's the position he is in on this team. Some say it's a done deal Eli is coming back with a new contract I'm just not sure if he is worth 18+ mill to throw 5-11 yards darts at a less than 60% completion rate. Eli is not irreplaceable but it seems that many think so we have won three games with him does that make anyone on this team irreplaceable?

I have seen Eli from his rookie season to today he has nothing left to show us that's a secret ability wise and winning games at this point is meaningless. Nassib needs to get on the field and show us what if anything he has to be the 2nd string, QB of the future or maybe trade bait. I don't know what we have in Nassib this season is done now is the time to discover what his true value is.
Some people need more to do.  
joe48 : 11/26/2014 7:17 pm : link
Eli is not going anywhere unless he wants to because of lack of support. The FO will meet with him and convince that they will improve the team or maybe he'll walk.
RE: Its this..  
blakjedi : 11/27/2014 2:28 am : link
In comment 12002188 Coughlin's Rules said:
Quote:
Whoever wrote it Bravo
Only a fool would think about getting rid of Eli Manning especially with a full blown star in Beckham coming of age. Look at what Manning does with that one star receiver on the roster capable of opening the playbook. Plaxico SB 42. Hakeem SB 46. Eli has three rings written all over him and that third ring has Odell Beckham written all over it. Give Eli a decent line and watch.

Three of the greatest catches in NFL history have spun off of Eli Manning’s hand. Giants fans really don’t deserve this, but if their GM can fix that OLINE and Dline, they’re getting that fifth ring.


This post is excellent and true. and youre right... Giants fans dont deserve it.
RE: RE: He's  
dguy901 : 11/27/2014 10:28 am : link
In comment 12002128 TomTom said:
Quote:
In comment 12002115 AcidTest said:


Quote:


been healthy, but QBs get old in a hurry. I respect that others have a different option, but I would not extend Eli. Just pay him the $17M next season, and franchise him the season after that if necessary. That gives the Giants another two years to
evaluate Nassib.
If Eli wants to continue playing, he would be stupid to do that. Look at Peyton and you should see what I mean! I advocate letting Eli leave on his terms and can see Nassib become the starter in 2016. If Eli is injured or the unimaginable happens, he leaves NY next year, I am comfortable with him taking over with a full year as #3 + one under Eli's direct tutelage. Never forget Tom Brady was drated with a 6th rd compensatory pick! We moved up to get him for a reason and he didn't look shabby in preseason play. MHO.



If you were going to this wouldn't it be better to give him a 3 year extension and lower his cap number to help build the rest of the team?
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