Eric Mangini -HHe has done it before, he was very successful and he would be able to get this D going in the right directon. He also has a great eye for talent.
I have not been impressed with anyone we have brought in on D since Perry has been DCoordinator. Have You? Look at Mangini's drafts.. especially on the D.
Does have say, you are correct, this mess is on both guys, Reese and Coughlin. But Coughlin is an offense first guy, we need a strong defensive coordinator who could give a voice to defensive personnel, this idea is the best I have heard, keep Coughlin and Reese, hire Mangini. Starting over will be painful, but with Mangini you have a guy that at least would be a possible replacement for Coughlin if you had to pull the trigger. The other thing to do is replace Reese and Fewell, and add Mangini and go get a GM. That is also a plan I would sign off on. I love the Mangini idea.
It's hard to tell how bad the personnel on this team really is
because our defensive coaches seem to bring out the worst in every player. They don't seem to coach the basics like tackling, positioning and simple coverage schemes. Clearly this defensive staff is not working.
When Mangini came into New England, they were running a 4-3 base, and did so for a lot of the 2000 and 2001 seasons under Belichick.
Bill Belichick is scheme versatile – his players and coaches can play in multiple fronts and still be effective players.
Eric Mangini didnft quite work out as a head coach – but he wasnft exactly terrible. Hefs a good personnel evaluator and a good defensive coach, no matter which way you put it.
Now, I should add, I dont know how he would fit with Macadoo and Coach. But that doesnft mean he couldnft help a team whether they run a 4-3 or 3-4.
consider Mangini for that spot if he wants it. He worked under Belichek and was highly enough regarded to be given two HC gigs. Reese has to get rid of Ross and change his drafting philosophy. Think he has already in the past two years. Or else get rid of him.
It's hard to tell when the offseason was mostly about rebuilding the secondary and we've lost 3 of the 4 CBs we were counted on. How much better would then team have been with a Thurmond or McBride in the slot instead of Holsey. I suspect that Fewell might have tried to blitz a bit if we had CBs who could cover and that's not even dealing with the Prince and (stupidly) letting Hill go (but that's a different thread).
RE: Everyone needs to stop with the g3-4 guy talks.
When Mangini came into New England, they were running a 4-3 base, and did so for a lot of the 2000 and 2001 seasons under Belichick.
Bill Belichick is scheme versatile his players and coaches can play in multiple fronts and still be effective players.
Eric Mangini didnft quite work out as a head coach but he wasnft exactly terrible. Hefs a good personnel evaluator and a good defensive coach, no matter which way you put it.
Now, I should add, I dont know how he would fit with Macadoo and Coach. But that doesnft mean he couldnft help a team whether they run a 4-3 or 3-4.
I have no idea if he could help or not, but what I do know is that as a head coach, he chose to run 3-4 defenses in Cleveland and with the Jets.
Why would you hire someone and then tell him not to run what he knows best and obviously prefers?
The last time we introduced some Italian blood into the coaching (Spagnulo) it worked out pretty well.
Coughlin, McAdoo, Flaherty, Mara...maybe there are too many Irishmen on the staff whose weakness is hope and belief and not enough know and understand.
The last time we introduced some Italian blood into the coaching (Spagnulo) it worked out pretty well.
Coughlin, McAdoo, Flaherty, Mara...maybe there are too many Irishmen on the staff whose weakness is hope and belief and not enough know and understand.
this might be my favorite post on this board since the last time piranha appeared.
RE: It's hard to tell how bad the personnel on this team really is
because our defensive coaches seem to bring out the worst in every player. They don't seem to coach the basics like tackling, positioning and simple coverage schemes. Clearly this defensive staff is not working.
You don't think this same statement applies to the offense as well?
I can't for the life of me figure out why I see Tom Quinn's name mentioned 10x as many times as I see Pat Flaherty's. OK, maybe he hasn't had the greatest talent, but not one guy on that line has ever looked like he met or exceeded the expectations you'd have for him, and that's been going on for a few years now.
Our defensive personnel sucks for the 3-4 AND the 4-3
The last time we introduced some Italian blood into the coaching (Spagnulo) it worked out pretty well.
Coughlin, McAdoo, Flaherty, Mara...maybe there are too many Irishmen on the staff whose weakness is hope and belief and not enough know and understand.
You might be onto something. There's got to be a correlation between the Irish Curse and these guys lacking testicular fortitude.
... The other thing to do is replace Reese and Fewell, and add Mangini and go get a GM. That is also a plan I would sign off on. I love the Mangini idea.
How long are you willing to give a new GM before you start calling him out on his drafts? Not a criticism, just an honest question.
A GM's results won't be seen for at least a couple of years, unless he drafts a freak. That's not the norm.
I understand getting rid of Fewell. Reese, not so much. At the end of the day he has brought a lot of talent to the Giants. OL, DL and offense. He hasn't been great with linebackers. I don't blame him for the ridiculous amount of injuries we've suffered -- that's something that seriously needs to be looked at separately. Are our conditioning and medical staffs really on par with the rest of the league? If I'm Mara I would have to look at this with an unbiased eye. Every team has injuries but the Giants' injuries tend to run in groups. Something odd there.
My frustration comes from the same mistakes on the field being made over and over and over again. At some point we have to realize that the player mix has changed but the type of problems remains the same. The only common denominator is the personnel who make game day decisions.
Replacing another coordinator without replacing the coach
Exactly! There is plenty of 3-4 personnel free agent and draft wise. Jenkins has played on a 3-4 line in Green Bay. Move Hankins and Bromley to end. Maybe even try Hankins at the nose tackle. There are plenty of 3-4 Linebackers available. Plenty of teams have switched and been successful.
Don't let Coughlin and co. save their jobs by sacrificing yet another assistant.
Just last year it was Gilbride.
Coughlin is accountable or should be. Last two DCs this team hired under Coughlin: Perry Fewell and and Whats-his-Name Sheridan. Guy has an eye for top coaching talent, obviously.
So let's give TC, at 69 years old no less, chance and go get another guy like that.
Blow the fucking thing up or keep it together, don't care, but no more bandaids.
How many times are we gonna do the same fucking thing?
Bill Belichick is scheme versatile – his players and coaches can play in multiple fronts and still be effective players.
Eric Mangini didnft quite work out as a head coach – but he wasnft exactly terrible. Hefs a good personnel evaluator and a good defensive coach, no matter which way you put it.
Now, I should add, I dont know how he would fit with Macadoo and Coach. But that doesnft mean he couldnft help a team whether they run a 4-3 or 3-4.
Bill Belichick is scheme versatile his players and coaches can play in multiple fronts and still be effective players.
Eric Mangini didnft quite work out as a head coach but he wasnft exactly terrible. Hefs a good personnel evaluator and a good defensive coach, no matter which way you put it.
Now, I should add, I dont know how he would fit with Macadoo and Coach. But that doesnft mean he couldnft help a team whether they run a 4-3 or 3-4.
I have no idea if he could help or not, but what I do know is that as a head coach, he chose to run 3-4 defenses in Cleveland and with the Jets.
Why would you hire someone and then tell him not to run what he knows best and obviously prefers?
BB's teams play so well, with no name talent and he always shuts down the teams #1, 2 weapons and makes you beat them with your 3 and 4
kick the tires
BB and TL were the greatest Giants DC we ever had
Still the only defensive coordinator I know of who got hammered by his own players and screamed at.
In comment 12002362 NINEster said:
Coughlin, McAdoo, Flaherty, Mara...maybe there are too many Irishmen on the staff whose weakness is hope and belief and not enough know and understand.
Coughlin, McAdoo, Flaherty, Mara...maybe there are too many Irishmen on the staff whose weakness is hope and belief and not enough know and understand.
this might be my favorite post on this board since the last time piranha appeared.
You don't think this same statement applies to the offense as well?
I can't for the life of me figure out why I see Tom Quinn's name mentioned 10x as many times as I see Pat Flaherty's. OK, maybe he hasn't had the greatest talent, but not one guy on that line has ever looked like he met or exceeded the expectations you'd have for him, and that's been going on for a few years now.
Coughlin, McAdoo, Flaherty, Mara...maybe there are too many Irishmen on the staff whose weakness is hope and belief and not enough know and understand.
You might be onto something. There's got to be a correlation between the Irish Curse and these guys lacking testicular fortitude.
That would be my concern too
Tom Landry you goof ball
How long are you willing to give a new GM before you start calling him out on his drafts? Not a criticism, just an honest question.
A GM's results won't be seen for at least a couple of years, unless he drafts a freak. That's not the norm.
I understand getting rid of Fewell. Reese, not so much. At the end of the day he has brought a lot of talent to the Giants. OL, DL and offense. He hasn't been great with linebackers. I don't blame him for the ridiculous amount of injuries we've suffered -- that's something that seriously needs to be looked at separately. Are our conditioning and medical staffs really on par with the rest of the league? If I'm Mara I would have to look at this with an unbiased eye. Every team has injuries but the Giants' injuries tend to run in groups. Something odd there.
My frustration comes from the same mistakes on the field being made over and over and over again. At some point we have to realize that the player mix has changed but the type of problems remains the same. The only common denominator is the personnel who make game day decisions.
What does that mean? He was an assistant. It wasn't his call to make.
He's never opted to use the 3-4 defense as a head coach, despite having to hire several defensive coordinators.
Exactly! There is plenty of 3-4 personnel free agent and draft wise. Jenkins has played on a 3-4 line in Green Bay. Move Hankins and Bromley to end. Maybe even try Hankins at the nose tackle. There are plenty of 3-4 Linebackers available. Plenty of teams have switched and been successful.
Just last year it was Gilbride.
Coughlin is accountable or should be. Last two DCs this team hired under Coughlin: Perry Fewell and and Whats-his-Name Sheridan. Guy has an eye for top coaching talent, obviously.
So let's give TC, at 69 years old no less, chance and go get another guy like that.
Blow the fucking thing up or keep it together, don't care, but no more bandaids.
How many times are we gonna do the same fucking thing?