I known next to nothing about guns or law enforcement so please bare with me here. The purpose of law enforcement is not to kill, but to apprehend and to prevent someone from causing harm to officers or civilians. Guns are a very clumsy tool for this. Are there any efforts to develop gun like weapons that immediately disable a person without killing or permanently harming them? I know tasers do that but only from short range. There are tranquilizer guns for large dangerous animal management, but those aren't instant.
This post should've started off with" I don't know what I'm talking about but I'll just throw some shit against the wall and see what sticks"
Yes the LEO'S go around torturing people these days! Please! That shit Pepper Spray doesn't work! I know cause I've used it in lieu of shooting someone with a knife! You want to make blanket fucking statements like that, go ahead, you expose yourself as an idiot!
Mike, I'm all for having nonlethal weapons. Police officers carry two types of them every day, a nightstick and pepper spray, the latter which works some of the time. Is there a problem with abuse, yes but to say its a tool of torture is rediculous! There are devices that shoot nets at emotionally disturbed people, that gives you an advantage to apprehend them among others. Should there be more of them yes absolutely! I will sahy this as a retired Police Officer who has worked in time square when it was the wild west, I took the preservation of life seriously! mine included in that list! I aminsulted when blanket statements are thrown around, that police officers torture people for the hell of it. Their as been PO's that have done that, but the bad apples are far and few between.
Absolutely
Often? Anything to support this?
Deciding which less lethal option may work best in a given situation takes time and can change dramatically with changes in circumstances. Even the correct choice of less lethal options can lead to tragedy due to human error. There have been situations where 00 buck or slug rounds have been inadvertently loaded into less lethal shotguns. Then there was the well publicized case in oakland where the officer drew and deployed his handgun when he meant to use his taser. As RXO pointed out there are no surefire answers.
Know this though, under the stress of immediate threat to anyone's life the choice is simple. The quickest deployment option is going to be a firearm. And that is not foolproof either. There are many well documented cases of individuals taking fatal wounds but continuing the fight for 60-90 seconds. A lot of shit can and will happen in that time frame.
Oh wait.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/opinion/torturing-children-at-school.html
Federal investigators have opened an inquiry into the tragic case of a high school student in Bastrop County, Tex., who suffered severe brain damage and nearly died last fall after a deputy sheriff shocked him with a Taser, a high voltage electronic weapon.
In North Carolina, civil rights lawyers have filed a complaint with the Justice Department, charging the Wake County school system with violating the constitutional rights of minority children by subjecting them to discriminatory arrest practices and brutality by police officers assigned to schools. In one nightmarish case described in the complaint, a disabled 15-year-old was shocked with a Taser three times during an interrogation at school, resulting in punctured lungs. And in New York, civil rights lawyers have sued the city of Syracuse on behalf of two students. One was shocked three times, not for threatening behavior but for lying on the floor and crying, they say, and another was shocked while trying to break up a fight.
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With that is criminals have lethal guns, so u would be putting law enforcements safety at risk.
Not if they knocked the person out every time they hit a certain part of the body. In fact they may be safer as it wouldn't take a perfectly placed lethal shot like with a conventional gun.
This might work in a video game, but not real life.
Just don't fuck with the cops. Problem solved.
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we could have them all take Jedi training and they could then use The Force.
See. Wisdom finally. Now I'm going to use my transporter to get to work. Beam me up Scotty
Phasers on stun!!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/opinion/torturing-children-at-school.html
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Federal investigators have opened an inquiry into the tragic case of a high school student in Bastrop County, Tex., who suffered severe brain damage and nearly died last fall after a deputy sheriff shocked him with a Taser, a high voltage electronic weapon.
In North Carolina, civil rights lawyers have filed a complaint with the Justice Department, charging the Wake County school system with violating the constitutional rights of minority children by subjecting them to discriminatory arrest practices and brutality by police officers assigned to schools. In one nightmarish case described in the complaint, a disabled 15-year-old was shocked with a Taser three times during an interrogation at school, resulting in punctured lungs. And in New York, civil rights lawyers have sued the city of Syracuse on behalf of two students. One was shocked three times, not for threatening behavior but for lying on the floor and crying, they say, and another was shocked while trying to break up a fight.
First case where's the torture????? Yes some people die even from "non lethal" weapons.
Second case this is a school and school officials, no police officers involved.
I can say all doctors who perform electro shock therapy are torturers. Keep hunting the internet to support your statement.
The department possesses weapons which may serve as an alternative to deadly force, yet the officers have the discretion re: whether they wear it or not. If true, I would be shocked if the US Attorney's patterns and practice investigation does not flag this as a major organizational defect.
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I known next to nothing about ________
and follow with, "But that's not going to stop me from pontificating about it."
It's one of those questions I didn't see too many people ask too often in regards to the Oscar Grant shooting. The cop says he thought he was firing his Taser. Well, why did a guy handcuffed and lying face-down on the ground warrant even a Tasering?
What are you going on about again? No one brought evidence or documentation to the table. My post was a simple question.
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In comment 12002368 cokeduplt said:
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With that is criminals have lethal guns, so u would be putting law enforcements safety at risk.
Not if they knocked the person out every time they hit a certain part of the body. In fact they may be safer as it wouldn't take a perfectly placed lethal shot like with a conventional gun.
This might work in a video game, but not real life.
Just don't fuck with the cops. Problem solved.
You mean like that insane man in NM who slowly walked towards cops with a knife? Yeah he deserved to die for "fucking with the cops".
This might work in a video game, but not real life.
Just don't fuck with the cops. Problem solved.
It really is the best advice. Treat a cop exactly as you would a mugger, albeit an even more dangerous one, and you'll likely emerge from the incident unharmed.
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In comment 12002376 chris r said:
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In comment 12002368 cokeduplt said:
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With that is criminals have lethal guns, so u would be putting law enforcements safety at risk.
Not if they knocked the person out every time they hit a certain part of the body. In fact they may be safer as it wouldn't take a perfectly placed lethal shot like with a conventional gun.
This might work in a video game, but not real life.
Just don't fuck with the cops. Problem solved.
You mean like that insane man in NM who slowly walked towards cops with a knife? Yeah he deserved to die for "fucking with the cops".
Well radar, why don't you try it and see what happens.
Or better yet, have a crazy guy walk towards you with a knife and see what you do. After you shit your pants of course.
Administrator chimes in and charges all police do is use non lethal weapons for torture.
Only wednesday and I learned a lot this week.
Administrator chimes in and charges all police do is use non lethal weapons for torture.
Only wednesday and I learned a lot this week.
Bingo on radar's shitty reading comprehension. I swear, he really only ever posts to read his own brilliance no matter what topic, and by brilliance I mean the idiotic contrarian bullshit time and time again.
Radar...read what others have already posted regarding how difficult it is to use nonleathal (less lethal) means to stop a threat before you keep beating your idiotic drum. Some people actually have some experience in these areas that you may learn something from.
Without objective evidence many times we can't be certain if a specific incident of police use of force is justified or not.
Then we have bad policies such as civil forfeiture and no-knock warrants that can easily be abused which cause tremendous amounts of distrust and animosity. Of course people that can't afford lawyers are the most likely be victims of these bad policies.
Maybe there are solutions that involve less deadly forms of force for the police to use but in the meantime body cameras are the best solution. Violence by both cop and non cop go way down when cops are wearing body cameras. Complaints of excessive use of force by cops also go way down when cops wear body cameras.
The day when all cops wear body cameras is coming but in the meantime people should get use to pulling out their cell phone cameras to protect themselves and others.
Google it. Interesting how it's developing.
As it appears to be turning out, body cams seems to be a good tool for the police.
Helping more than hurting. We shall see.
Google it. Interesting how it's developing.
If I was still on the job, I'd wear a camera in a heartbeat! It's cuts down on all the he said she said BS. Look at how officers who have the cameras in their RMP have used the videos to show the justifiable stops of vehicles along with the actions of the driver after their stops. These videos tell the whole story, their not turned on and off at will or edited.
As it appears to be turning out, body cams seems to be a good tool for the police.
Helping more than hurting. We shall see.
As far as non-lethal weapons, they already have them -they're called Tasers.
As far as guns I want them to have the biggest, baddest guns they can get. Mike Brown was sot with a Sig Sauer .40 caliber hand-gun (a very serious weapon). He took several rounds, till one to the head stopped him.
I grew up with guns in the home (and the military) aways had at least one, till my wife insisted they I get rid of my shot gun. That's why if I call the cops because somebody is hurting my family ….
I don't want a bleeding heart who will hesitate drawing his weapon and USING it.
Studies show white people sometimes believe black people have superhuman strength and ability to withstand pain.
When Darren Wilson grappled with Mike Brown he said he felt like a 5 year old hanging on to Hulk Hogan. Wilson also said Brown had the face of a demon and he said Brown was bulking himself up to run through the shots.
It should be noted that Mike Brown is 6'4" and Darren Wilson is 6'4". Brown is heavier than Wilson but he is also fat. Wilson was a fit 210 lbs. Wilson also had years of training and experience in physically dealing with others and Wilson was armed, yet Wilson was the one claiming that he was afraid.
It should also be noted the final shot, the one that killed Mike Brown, was to the crown of the head. All the coroners agree Mike Brown was falling to the ground when he was shot in the top of the head. The people that believe Brown was only stopped by the head shot do not have the facts correct. Mike Brown was not like the Zombies in Night Of The Living Dead.
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And the rest of the stuff you wrote, especially about the last shot is not correct. All the coroners said that the shot was to the top of the head, but they can not say if Brown was falling or just had his head down to charge Wilson. The last shot to the head was the one that killed him.
Gene if it were this simple. Not every criminal comes down to bad parenting. I bet a good portion are actually mentally ill. Criminal that happen to be mentally ill aren't criminals more than likely because they didn't get enough spankings, discipline etc.
It doesn't matter what you or I believe. The evidence shows that he was shot in the top of the head. Witnesses say he had his head down charging at Wilson. To say he was down at the point of the final shot is speculation, not absolute truth and it doesn't match the evidence.
You can't blame these problems on bad parenting and ignore bad policy.
That said, we have 2 possibilities. Either Wilson continued to fire on Brown when we was falling to the ground or Brown was charging Wilson after being shot 5 or 6 times. Which possibility do you believe?
Have fun putting together a police force in Chicago with tasers, tranquilizers, and blow darts.
I believe the coroner who said that earlier wounds would not have been disabling in combination, until the final wound to the top of the head. The autopsy confirms Wilson's testimony. Plus you don't know how long it was between the shots, they were almost instantaneous.
The grand jury heard all of this and made their decision. You seem to think that you know something that they don't.
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