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Pat Traina on why we havent seen Damontre Moore

Jints in Carolina : 11/26/2014 1:22 pm
Patricia Traina @Patricia_Traina · 20m 20 minutes ago
So why haven't we seen more of Damontre Moore? TC explains: "Because there are times during the week when you talk about confidence level

Patricia Traina @Patricia_Traina · 19m 19 minutes ago
"...whether it’s assignment football or whatever. For whatever reason,

Patricia Traina @Patricia_Traina · 20m 20 minutes ago
".. it hasn’t been something that we thought he knows exactly what he’s doing and so on and so forth.

Patricia Traina @Patricia_Traina · 20m 20 minutes ago
"The practices have to fulfill the idea that we can go ahead + play him [in] all circumstances, not just on 3rd down.

Patricia Traina @Patricia_Traina · 20m 20 minutes ago
So in other words, what I've been telling you guys all along. Moore hasn't been consistent in practice, which is where it all starts.

Patricia Traina @Patricia_Traina · 5m 5 minutes ago
Guys, don't shoot the messenger.I'm just relaying what TC said about practice reps.
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RE: It's not about 'playing better'  
Randy in CT : 11/26/2014 2:45 pm : link
In comment 12002488 shepherdsam said:
Quote:
It's about knowing what you're supposed to be doing.

It's really fucked up that there are people here who still can't grasp this.
Thank you. And Moore will probably be OK next year but is considered a liability this year.
Funny how Osi just ran up the field outside the OT on every down  
Rjanyg : 11/26/2014 2:48 pm : link
forgoing stopping the run, yet Moore can't get on the field?
He was drafted to get after the passer. He has been getting pressure and has a few sacks this year, yet Kiwi, who is breaking down before our eyes, is better because he knows his assignments better? Is that why Moore isn't on the field? OK then why is Ayers on the bench?
Moore is a liabilty?  
Jints in Carolina : 11/26/2014 2:51 pm : link
What the hell is Kiwanuka then?
DE/Pass Rusher  
Kyle in NY : 11/26/2014 2:55 pm : link
is just about the least cerebral position on the football field, at least defensively. It's instincts and athleticism. Fire off, find the ball and go get it.

I understand to an extent what Coughlin is saying. But at some point you have to see what you have in the kid by giving him extended snaps, especially in a lost season. some guys find their game when the lights are on. Maybe Moore is that type of guy, maybe he isn't. but we have no clue and that's the point. About to head into year three and we still don't have a good read on this kid.

Plus, we sure as hell know what we have in Kiwi at this point and it ain't good.
Dear God, just play the guy  
section125 : 11/26/2014 2:55 pm : link
for Pete's sake. So if he screws up you can point at it and say "see." Lord like Kiwi and JPP looked good against Seattle?
Swirling Eddie I actually laughed out loud at my desk  
Dinger : 11/26/2014 2:57 pm : link
reliably ineffective...HA! He does suck doesn't he. Remember after he drafted him when Ernie said you cant have enough pass rushers? Talk about a whiff.....
To follow it up he said, "When you put pressure on the passer, everybody else's job is easier"....conversly I guess you can say when you dont put pressure on the passer EVERYBODY'S job is hard, DB's LB's QB's, etc.
RE: Dear God, just play the guy  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 3:03 pm : link
In comment 12002679 section125 said:
Quote:
for Pete's sake. So if he screws up you can point at it and say "see." Lord like Kiwi and JPP looked good against Seattle?
Yes, because it must be proven to the cognescenti in the fan base that they in fact don't know what they are talking about.
so Kiwi fucking up his assignments every game is more  
SHO'NUFF : 11/26/2014 3:03 pm : link
acceptable than Moore fucking up in practice?
He is not grasping  
tomjgiant : 11/26/2014 3:03 pm : link
the idea of a DE dropping back to cover a receiver.
When you repeatedly hear  
Reb8thVA : 11/26/2014 3:07 pm : link
how player X doesn't know his assignments or player X doesn't fit this scheme the Giants play and all the shit talking that is going on, how can you not want to just blow the whole thing up and start all over?
We have seen how well practices...  
silverfox : 11/26/2014 3:10 pm : link
...translate to the game. Tommy ole boyo...its time to start looking for a good real-estate agent.
so basically  
fkap : 11/26/2014 3:11 pm : link
it boils down to don't count on him to be much of anything. Maybe he'll get it, maybe he won't. He's not wowing the coaches, so when you lay your money down on which way it's gonna go, keep that in mind. fans tend to over value the backups. Sometimes time will benefit a player. Sometimes, you just waste time waiting for the player to 'get it'. One of the big problems with the Giants is that they spend too much time on a player, waiting for that one more magic offseason to make it all come together: J Williams, Jernigan, Brewer, the waste of a draft pick WR who I'm having a brain fart on who spent way too many years collecting a paycheck, the likes of Herzlich, the list goes on and on. Too much potential, not enough actual production. It's the epitome of the JPP situation.

The line is a mess, and we've put a lot of asset resources into it.
One of the beat writers, don't remember which one, said  
81_Great_Dane : 11/26/2014 3:12 pm : link
he'd love to play for Coughlin, because he goes by what he sees. Show him you can do the job, he'll play you.

To put it another way, if I understand what's happening here:

1) Coach's rule is: Earn playing time by playing well in practice. There are exceptions for stars who are injured and can't practice during the week, but this is the starting point.

2) Players understand this rule.

3) Some players perform well in practice, earn more playing time. Others perform less well in practice, earn less playing time.

4) Team loses anyway.

5) Fans demand coach break rule (#1 above) and give more playing time to players who perform less well in practice.

TC could drop his rule from #1 above. It's his rule, it's not some innate property of the football universe. But I think that commitment to preparation and practice, and to rewarding players who show similar commitment, is so baked in to TC's coaching philosophy that he would have to become a completely different coach to give it up.

The one change he could make would be something along the lines of "Just win, baby." -- In other words, performance in games means everything. Do whatever you want as long as you perform on game day. But I don't think that's TC's way, and I don't think it's the Giants' way, either. I also doubt that would really work in the modern NFL; the game is too complex now. So I don't see it happening.
All Moore has to do is know where to be and he will play  
PatersonPlank : 11/26/2014 3:18 pm : link
Is this too much to ask of a professional athlete? Why kill the coaches over this, its the players issue. Every one of us, in every profession, learns this.
RE: He is not grasping  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 3:18 pm : link
In comment 12002694 tomjgiant said:
Quote:
the idea of a DE dropping back to cover a receiver.
Sorry, that is part of the job description as it is for every team.
a problem with the Giants under Coughlin is that they  
chris r : 11/26/2014 3:21 pm : link
make players fit the system. LBers need to learn all 3 positions. Safeties need to play both spots. WRs and RBs need to know all their assignments to see the field. DEs must know all their responsibilities even before seeing time on pass rushing downs.

I would like to see them fit the system and expectations more to the talents of the players than the other way around.

They're just not very creative.
' The practices have to fulfill the idea that we can go ahead'  
oldutican : 11/26/2014 3:31 pm : link
'and play him [in] all circumstances, not just on 3rd down.'

This is an insane standard. Why can't you just playing him in passing situations?
So what's the excuse for not playing Ayers over Kiwi  
Jacobs27 : 11/26/2014 3:32 pm : link
Does he not know is assignment either?
how well we perform during practice makes sense...  
SHO'NUFF : 11/26/2014 3:35 pm : link
an inept offensive line going against an equally inept defensive line everyday in practice makes it look like we're actually capable of competing since they cancel each other out... then comes the cold slap of reality on Sundays.
Actually, TC admits that they haven't been playing Moore enough.  
Jacobs27 : 11/26/2014 3:46 pm : link
Quote:
Young Damontre, everybody wants him in the ball game, he did have some success the other day with one sack. He should have been playing a little bit more.


I also find it very interesting that he refers to him as "Young Damontre." A little bit of his bias against younger players showing. TC does play younger players, but only when forced to. So "young" Damontre will just have to wait his turn out of respect to the veteran Kiwi.
Comments  
Colin@gbn : 11/26/2014 3:49 pm : link
I got two choices here; one I can shoot Patti; or two I can say that what I hear her quoting TC is pure utter unadultered bafflegarb! Were not going to just put this kid out in pass rush situations because he doesn't know his assignments on non-pass rush situations. What bothers me most is that we seem to be hearing this kind of almost unintelligble football bafflegarb every week from Tom lately
Moore and Ayers  
Samiam : 11/26/2014 3:50 pm : link
Neither plays the run and both pretty much sell out to get to the QB. I do criticize Fewell for not playing Moore more often and certainly for not being in there on that last Dallas drive but there is something to be said for playing the run especially when the RB is DeMarco Murray. With Moore, he was a big time pass rusher from a big time school with lots of exposure and he lasted until the 3rd round. That might tell us something about his talents or issues.
Defending the indefensible  
Colin@gbn : 11/26/2014 4:12 pm : link
Samian: You are absolutely correct that what Tom isn't going to say is that in that final drive the Giants chose to a) defend the run and b) take away the big play, but concede in the process concede Romo the opportunity to essentially play pitch-and-catch in the middle and underneath zones. What makes it absolutely ludicrous - and there is just no other word to describe it - is that the Giants (Coughlin cause its his call) chose to try and take away the two hardest ways for the Cowboys to score in that situation and basically conceded them the easiest. If they beat you with the big play; tip your hat to them (and hope that there is still time to give Eli one more legitimate shot) If they want to try and drive 80 yards in 3 minutes running the ball let them have at; bring the safeties up in the box and dare them to try. What yo have to say in that situation is sell out getting after Romo so he can't just sit back there and pick you apart!
This coaching staff  
area junc : 11/26/2014 4:18 pm : link
Is absolutely ridiculous. Whats his excuse for not playing ayers?
RE: This coaching staff  
Arcanum : 11/26/2014 4:35 pm : link
In comment 12002804 area junc said:
Quote:
Is absolutely ridiculous. Whats his excuse for not playing ayers?


He didn't go to Boston College. Duh
....  
SanFranGiantsFan : 11/26/2014 4:39 pm : link
If he can't grasp our defense, ask the teams we've played this year. They sure as hell grasped it.
I know when Moore will get it and be a force  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 11/26/2014 5:27 pm : link
Someday if he is cut because he does not practice well and does not get the defense, he will land on another team. All of a sudden, his talent will come through, and his sack total will be high.

What he needs is a coaching staff that has faith in him and of course the opportunity to get on the field.
I wonder if some of these developmental guys  
phil in arizona : 11/26/2014 5:34 pm : link
like Moore, Brewer, Moseley would have progressed into solid starters by now if we just took our lumps and threw them out there on game day.
maybe just maybe  
giantfanboy : 11/26/2014 5:47 pm : link
this kid's confidence must be hurting badly these days
because he can see how bad the defense is performing yet is not getting tapped to go on the field

by playing him more it will elevate his confidence which will elevate his practice
im open minded on this  
Bill2 : 11/26/2014 6:07 pm : link
I seem to remember thread after thread in the last years in which posters were infuriated at Osi for freelance pass rush moves and in so doing vacating gaps and leaving huge running lanes.

It was so annoying to see teams rely on Osi (a previously proven nfl talent) giving them a free pass to the second level
This from a man who prior played the run tough against the great Walter Jones. Stupid to watch. Every week osi saw the tapes and every week he did the same thing. His gap was play number one in every opponents play book against us for three years.

We play in a conference against Qbs who can run...RBIII, ROMO and against great runners ( morris, murray and philly). And we played seattle and san fran this year. We are a sieve enough as it is. Freelancing doesnt just annoy coaches. It mocks the efforts of teammates playing as hard as they can. Thats not only stupid in a game ...its demoralizing to team cohesiveness.

If its true....good for TC for keeping consistent to the whole team so some may learn even of its not his to keep teaching next year
RE: This coaching staff  
jeff57 : 11/26/2014 6:35 pm : link
In comment 12002804 area junc said:
Quote:
Is absolutely ridiculous. Whats his excuse for not playing ayers?


He probably came to Moore's defense. Off to the doghouse he goes.
Kiwi probably looks good in practice  
jeff57 : 11/26/2014 6:36 pm : link
Lousy in games. So of course practice counts more.
Excellent point by Jacobs27 in his post at 3:46.........  
Phil in Joisey : 11/26/2014 6:43 pm : link
"I also find it very interesting that he refers to him as "Young Damontre." A little bit of his bias against younger players showing. TC does play younger players, but only when forced to. So "young" Damontre will just have to wait his turn out of respect to the veteran Kiwi."

A little bit of his bias showing? Actually a lot imho. I find this slip of the tongue by T.C. to be quite revealing. Of course maybe Moore refers to his Head Coach as 'Old Tom'.
You know "old" as in the old guy who called timeout late in the first half to help the Cowboys who had none left.
What are the chances Old Tom does the same thing in practice each week.
RE: a problem with the Giants under Coughlin is that they  
joe48 : 11/26/2014 6:44 pm : link
In comment 12002729 chris r said:
Quote:
make players fit the system. LBers need to learn all 3 positions. Safeties need to play both spots. WRs and RBs need to know all their assignments to see the field. DEs must know all their responsibilities even before seeing time on pass rushing downs.

I would like to see them fit the system and expectations more to the talents of the players than the other way around.

They're just not very creative.
With all the injuries we have had probably a good thing they know multiple positions, How hard could this possibly be. If we know all of this maybe we need to draft smarter players.
RE: ....  
joe48 : 11/26/2014 6:48 pm : link
In comment 12002845 SanFranGiantsFan said:
Quote:
If he can't grasp our defense, ask the teams we've played this year. They sure as hell grasped it.
I do not recall any of our recent draft flops catching on with other teams. Could be a scouting issue.
RE: put him in and say  
Great White Ghost : 11/26/2014 6:51 pm : link
In comment 12002495 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
"you see the QB? Get him".

It cannot be any worse than the shit show we have now.
Live long enough you learn ONE thing. It can ALWAYS get worse.

You can go from drowning, to drowned, in a heartbeat
RE: ....  
Great White Ghost : 11/26/2014 6:53 pm : link
In comment 12002530 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Why is he having such difficulty grasping the defense in his second year?
he's not too bright and Perry Fewell doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
RE: RE: put him in and say  
Great White Ghost : 11/26/2014 6:56 pm : link
In comment 12002512 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 12002495 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:


"you see the QB? Get him".

It cannot be any worse than the shit show we have now.



^This. But it sounds like he can't get on the field for the same reason as Brewer, namely that the coaches don't trust them to know their assignments. Shouldn't that have been known before they were drafted?
Reese drafts nice boys, instead of good players. They tend to be on the dull side.
...  
christian : 11/26/2014 7:03 pm : link
If you know me, you know it hurts about as much as bat to face to agree with Gene. In this case he's right. Mathias knows his assignments and executes them at a low percentage. Moore does not, and although he's more physically talented, can be had at a higher rate.

You don't think when Moore is on the field, the QB doesn't know, go play action immediately and throw over him for 100% chance of success? Guys like Moore get coaches fired. Great thing is, he's a 2nd year player and will get better. Look at Ayers, same kind of player. Now 5 years on he's established his place as a rotational guy. Moore will do the same.
TC was a legend in Jax  
JPinstripes : 11/26/2014 7:06 pm : link
for the first several years and them ownership could not get him out of town fast enough.

History has a way of repeating itself, it's not about Moore and other young players "not getting it" it's about the HC not getting it.

Time to take the gold watch tour at 69 years old.
Moore  
blue42 : 11/26/2014 7:20 pm : link
should have been on the field on the last Dallas Drive. Very little assignment football there.Ayers should have been out there as well.
Some players are good practice players ….  
Manny in CA : 11/26/2014 7:24 pm : link
But not-so-good real-time players; but I've seen the opposite too.

True, there are fundamentals that have to be mastered, but think about what the opponent is doing to. He's in the business of deception - He knows that you've studied film and reading keys.

So along comes a player who is doing well enough, but once-in-a-while does something unexpected that's not on the regulation chess board because he has something you can't account for - exceptional physical ability and instincts.

Sort of like the Tyree Super Bowl catch. When Eli threw the ball, I thought, "oh no, he's overthrown the ball again, like he awlays does!' A couple of seconds later - "yes, yes, what a catch"
RE: Moore  
jeff57 : 11/26/2014 7:29 pm : link
In comment 12003078 blue42 said:
Quote:
should have been on the field on the last Dallas Drive. Very little assignment football there.Ayers should have been out there as well.


Yes, unfortunately Giants beat reporters seem intimidated by Coughlin and never ask the follow up questions, like, why no Ayers and why Moore couldn't have been used on an obvious passing drive.
RE: RE: put him in and say  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/26/2014 7:51 pm : link
In comment 12003046 Great White Ghost said:
Quote:
In comment 12002495 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:


"you see the QB? Get him".

It cannot be any worse than the shit show we have now.

Live long enough you learn ONE thing. It can ALWAYS get worse.

You can go from drowning, to drowned, in a heartbeat


They're 3-8 and at the bottom of every defensive stat you can look up.

The corpse has hit the riverbed.
Moore not seeing the field  
Killed the K-Gun : 11/26/2014 8:29 pm : link
is either an indictment against the GM (for picking someone with low football IQ) or the coaches (for not being able to coach him up).

Oh yeah, it could be the player himself.
Last year, Mara...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 11/26/2014 8:57 pm : link
in his post season press conference claimed to be upset that we had young players on offense who needed to get shot to play a lot sooner. The end of season play from Jernigan was what made him say that. So, what did he do? He basically forced the firing of Gilbride who was the patsy for Coughlin. Why a patsy? Because in that situation, we know that it is Coughlin's call as to who gets on the field.

We have a new OC this year and the offense looks the same. I wonder why.

Fast forward to this year. Will Mara sacrifice Fewell this time? Give the stupid fans (who dont know football) something they can hang their hats on for next season. Lead them like sheep into a summer of false hope? Meanwhile, Reese and Coughlin remain in place while they hire a DB coach from some other team to be our new DC.
Jeff57 is 100% correct.  
Phil in Joisey : 11/26/2014 10:57 pm : link
The Giant beat writers are intimidated by Coughlin and are afraid to ask pertinent follow-up questions.
Thank you Pat Traina for coming through and asking T.C. why he's been hiding Damontre Moore.
A coaches job  
Reale01 : 11/26/2014 11:15 pm : link
Get your best players on the field< properly motivate them, and put them in a position to succeed.

Parcells changed his defense when he saw what LT could do. Keep it simple for the kid so he can play fast. Live with some mistakes as long as the big plays are there. The player will learn.
Some of these commentators need to root  
chops : 11/27/2014 11:29 am : link
for a different team.
At this point i'm at a loss for words regarding this organization  
Giants4246 : 11/27/2014 11:43 am : link
I just can't wait for this shitshow to be over.
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