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NYDN: Coughlin rips d-line, backs Fewell

AJ23 : 11/26/2014 1:51 pm
Courtesy of Ebenezer Samuel

Quote:
"Quite frankly, we have called pressures," he said. "Pressures have been aborted or not performed very well. How would you like to be the guy who is sitting there calling pressures? And we call pressures and nothing happens so you're vulnerable in the secondary even more when you do that. You're not getting home. How would you like to be the guy calling those plays?"


Quote:
"When we're calling pressures, take a look and see who's getting home," he said. "You can talk about pressure all you want, but we've got to have people who get to the ball, get to the quarterback. That hasn't happened much."


Quote:
"There's a bunch of guys up front that are supposed to be known for that," he said of his anemic pass rush. "It (quarterback pressure) is something that has been missing for the majority of the season."

Story - ( New Window )
He says this, and yet.....  
Greg from LI : 11/26/2014 1:54 pm : link
.....Kiwanuka never loses playing time.
Nice Try Tom  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11/26/2014 1:55 pm : link
....trying to hide the truth about this vanilla defense... the film studies dont lie...

We are sitting back in 4 Quarters defense or that stupid Tampa 2 that Fool calls...

Apparently  
cokeduplt : 11/26/2014 1:55 pm : link
Coughlin thinks Strahan Osi and Tuck were out there!
Sounds like TC is taking a shot at  
Geeman : 11/26/2014 1:56 pm : link
JPP, Kiwi and Jenkins. There the only ones that can be qualified as "used" to get to the QB that were here.
I still think it's got a lot to do with Fewell and how he designs his defenses and sorry blitzes.
.  
MOOPS : 11/26/2014 1:57 pm : link
"There's a bunch of guys up front that are supposed to be known for that," he said of his anemic pass rush.

Yeah, in like 2011.
nice  
Les in TO : 11/26/2014 1:58 pm : link
throw your players under the bus.
Hey Tom,  
MOOPS : 11/26/2014 1:58 pm : link
Live in the past..............much?
Coughlin knows  
TMS : 11/26/2014 2:00 pm : link
Fewell's limitations and now he has to live with them. He keeps him on anyway because he is afraid of another Sheridan expierience. TC has trouble finding good DCs. Spagnuolo was the exception.
How anyone  
cokeduplt : 11/26/2014 2:03 pm : link
Still wants TC as the head coach next year is beyond me.
couldnt change OC and DC in one year  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/26/2014 2:03 pm : link
Fewell will be gone
Those statements can not play out well  
old man : 11/26/2014 2:08 pm : link
the next 5 Sundays.
I wonder if he's covering for PF(likely) and JR(possibly), or is almost TRYING to lose the players, in order to bring on a confrontation with JR about the amount of SUCK of the players JR acquires?
TCs comments tend to imply things more gently than those comments.
A 'disconnect' mentioned in another thread seems VERY real at this point.
I'm sure top DC candidates  
bceagle05 : 11/26/2014 2:09 pm : link
will be jumping at the chance to come to a 6-10 team with a 70-year-old coach and little defensive talent to speak of. We might have to settle for Spags, which is fine with me.
I agree paulie  
Geeman : 11/26/2014 2:11 pm : link
that was my theory too, although fewell should've been gone 1 or 2 years sooner, but this is it for him.
It maybe time for Coughlin to move on as well though, today's NFL calls for a team to get there younger players on the field faster, for better or worse and he maybe too old school for that. It seems like the only way young players get on the field is when that unit is hit with injuries.
hes entering the old stubborn phase  
hitdog42 : 11/26/2014 2:11 pm : link
of his life
and its not good for the team
They coached scared, he said it, and now he's back-pedalling with this  
ImaGiant86 : 11/26/2014 2:14 pm : link
.
Right he is too old  
bignygfan : 11/26/2014 2:14 pm : link
People his age should be put out to pasture.

Spags is the greatest!
.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 2:16 pm : link
Spagnola will fix this mess w/ his attacking defense
guys ....  
djm : 11/26/2014 2:16 pm : link
the DLINE sucks. I don't like Fewell very much but you really gonna sit here and tell me with a straight face that DaMontre Moore is some kinf of Deacon Jones in hiding? That this staff, that has been coaching for 20-30 years doesn't know what it has in Moore?

This defense fucking sucks. Personnel fucking sucks. Fewell hasn't helped but the #1 reason why this defense fucking sucks is because the players.....yup you guessed it, fucking suck.

Fewell is gone don't worry. But we have 1-2 holes at every position on defense. 1-2. That's a lot.

Yet  
Danny Kanell : 11/26/2014 2:16 pm : link
Moore gets 6 snaps, 1 being a sack.

Lol what the hell does that mean re: "calling pressure"  
TD : 11/26/2014 2:18 pm : link
He can't mean blitzes. Is he saying we "call" for pressure by virtue of the fact that the DL has their hand in the dirt? That's like saying "we called for rushing and passing yardage" or "we called for good D."

What a crock of shit. I was on the fence regarding Coughlin last year but it's clear to me now that we HAVE to clean house with this coaching staff (in addition to the roster and Ross). Maybe just spare the OC.
the blitzing is rare and when it happens it's predictable  
Les in TO : 11/26/2014 2:18 pm : link
how about throwing some different looks/pressures. bring a CB or safety blitz.

if your front four is not getting the job done on their own, it's up to the coaches to come up with some creative schemes to bring pressure. it could be that the blitzing isn't being practiced/coached in a crisp manner.

that is on both coughlin and PF.
RE: guys ....  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 2:22 pm : link
In comment 12002609 djm said:
Quote:
the DLINE sucks. I don't like Fewell very much but you really gonna sit here and tell me with a straight face that DaMontre Moore is some kinf of Deacon Jones in hiding? That this staff, that has been coaching for 20-30 years doesn't know what it has in Moore?

This defense fucking sucks. Personnel fucking sucks. Fewell hasn't helped but the #1 reason why this defense fucking sucks is because the players.....yup you guessed it, fucking suck.

Fewell is gone don't worry. But we have 1-2 holes at every position on defense. 1-2. That's a lot.


This.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 2:23 pm : link
Yeah, let's send DB's on blitzes..

Guess what happens then?

The linebackers have to cover people. THESE linebackers.

Good fucking luck with that.
he should fire  
spike : 11/26/2014 2:23 pm : link
Reese
Typical.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/26/2014 2:24 pm : link
Can't wait for this clown show to be gone.
RE: nice  
GloryDayz : 11/26/2014 2:24 pm : link
In comment 12002568 Les in TO said:
Quote:
throw your players under the bus.


I really like TC, but that has to be the thing I hate the most about him... always in a hurry to blame everything on "execution", disregarding why players are not executing, adjusting to it, or simply holding players accountable (playing time).
He's right  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 2:31 pm : link
you don't like it and don't want to hear it, but he's right.

This is just typical Coughlin  
Jacobs27 : 11/26/2014 2:31 pm : link
When the shit hits the fan he puts all the blame on the players. Usually he's a bit more careful and talks about their lack of "execution" despite what a great week of "preparation" they had and now well they practiced.

He's just getting a bit more blunt and ornery. Frankly I prefer this version. It's all the players fault the the coaches can't possible be asked to do anything with these shitty players they have.

Good riddance Tom. Don't let the door hit you in the ass in the way out.
RE: .  
Les in TO : 11/26/2014 2:33 pm : link
In comment 12002630 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Yeah, let's send DB's on blitzes..

Guess what happens then?

The linebackers have to cover people. THESE linebackers.

Good fucking luck with that.
actually in fewell's predictable zone blitz scheme its the linemen that end up having to cover receivers and tight ends, not even the linebackers.
Isnt it  
area junc : 11/26/2014 2:34 pm : link
The defensive coordinators job to coordinate the defense?
What a crock of shit  
blueblood'11 : 11/26/2014 2:38 pm : link
Regardless of the talent on this team it is incomprehensible to me how Tom defends this guy. Even in 2011 when the personel was supposedly better Fewell had to ultimately simplify things because they kept blowing coverages and the secondary wasn't nearly as deep as the one they had going into this year.

And what has happened this year. Same shit. Blown coverages. Miscommunications. It never ends. Tom has done a terrible job picking DC's with the exception of Spags. He is more defending himself then he is defending Fewell because he is the one who fucking picked him.

Listen to Carl Banks. He has said it over and over this team doesn't know how to blitz. Well who's fault is that. If they don't know how isn't it up to the DC to teach them how. I was on the fence with Tom but after this take I think it may be time to pull the plug.

The talent is not that that they should be playing so poorly. Bottom line. Tom's team is 11 up and 19 down in their last 30 games. Along with that are 6 shutouts and and a handful of awfully bad blowouts where they were not even competitive.

JPP will not be back next year...  
Damon : 11/26/2014 2:41 pm : link
Pretty sure he's not mature enough to handle those statements.
TC isn't going to throw his DC under the bus.  
BrettNYG10 : 11/26/2014 2:43 pm : link
.
Watching these guys play  
rocco8112 : 11/26/2014 2:43 pm : link
who could disagree?

The Cowboys did not just come down and score. They did it with ease. It was comical how much time Romo had.

The d-line was completely dominated as if they were playing a team from a higher league. It is hard to pin that on coaching. More likely, these players just suck.

I could care less if Fewell is brought back or not. If it were up to me I would probably go in a different direction. It is clear though that the D needs to be blown up and whatever philosophy that is being used to select players for the Giants roster to play D has to be scrapped. It simply does not work.
As Geeman said  
SLIM : 11/26/2014 2:44 pm : link
Fewell's design of blitzes is awful. Love Coughlin but he is completely wrong. There are 3 players known for pass rush ability.

- Jenkins - has been hurt for weeks now.
- Kiwi - The sad reality is that in his prime, he was an average player at best who is significantly past his prime now.
- JPP - Great athlete with limited pass rush moves. Do you know what you do with a guy like that? You move him around and free him up to let his athletic ability take over. Instead, we line him up and have him beat 1 or 2 people using his limited array of moves.
Neither Ayers or Moore get on the field  
Giants2012 : 11/26/2014 2:44 pm : link
Coach
The worst thing any professional can do is ...  
spider : 11/26/2014 2:46 pm : link
Hang around an extra year longer than they should.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 2:47 pm : link
Are people really mad at Coughlin for "throwing his players under the bus" ?

He's right about them. They're playing like dogshit and a lot of them suck. They deserve to be called out.

Everyone involved with this defense does. Fewell already lost his job so it's going to be on some of these guys to either play better or go find a practice squad to land on.
Coughlin is a joke. No wonder Accorsi wanted him gone  
Mason : 11/26/2014 2:48 pm : link
Mara trying for the role of Woody Johnson.
On one hand, he's right. these guys aren't getting pressure.  
BeerFridge : 11/26/2014 2:51 pm : link
on the other hand, it makes you wonder why these starters are still starting.
RE: Watching these guys play  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 2:52 pm : link
In comment 12002654 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
who could disagree?

The Cowboys did not just come down and score. They did it with ease. It was comical how much time Romo had.

The d-line was completely dominated as if they were playing a team from a higher league. It is hard to pin that on coaching. More likely, these players just suck.

I could care less if Fewell is brought back or not. If it were up to me I would probably go in a different direction. It is clear though that the D needs to be blown up and whatever philosophy that is being used to select players for the Giants roster to play D has to be scrapped. It simply does not work.
+1
Now I'm beginning to think it is less  
section125 : 11/26/2014 2:52 pm : link
about player quality and more about coaching quality. Aside from the LBs, I think there are enough decent players to play middle of the pack defense. I'm not saying this should be a great defense, but it should not be a last place defense. That crap in the last three minutes the other night was poor coaching.

i could say on the offense too. Really stretch play after stretch play with the defense knifing through for negative yardage - untouched - that is coaching as much or more than talent. Again calling the same play that gets killed each time it is called is stubborn.

RE: Neither Ayers or Moore get on the field  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12002657 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Coach
Ayers was on the field the last series. He didn't get within 10 yards of Romo. We are not exactly talking Deacon Jones here.

Coughlin already said that Moore needs to know his assignments if he wants to be more than a 3rd and long pass rusher. Where on the last drive was Dallas ever in 3rd and long. You can't give up on the run when DeMarco Murray is the running back and there are 3 minutes on the clock.
RE: .  
Les in TO : 11/26/2014 2:56 pm : link
In comment 12002663 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Everyone involved with this defense does.


what you don't seem to understand arcarsenal is that Coughlin is accountable for the defense; he's involved with it; it's not simply a matter of firing fewell as coordinator and bringing in mangini; coughlin is still going to have sway and influence over the philosophy of the D and deployment of personnel. that scardey cat "prevent" defense with the ineffective veternas on the last drive was all coughlin.
RE: He's right  
GloryDayz : 11/26/2014 2:57 pm : link
In comment 12002640 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
you don't like it and don't want to hear it, but he's right.


Players werent getting there, fine, take them off the field and try someone else... Moore & Ayers in this case.

At least then he tried to do something instead of just watching Romo march them down the field
we already have the worst run defense in the league.  
BeerFridge : 11/26/2014 2:58 pm : link
at least Moore is a one dimensional player. Kiwi is zero-dimensional.
I'll say the same thing to Coughlin that I would say to the players...  
Reb8thVA : 11/26/2014 3:00 pm : link
Just shut the fuck up!

The more you talk the worse it is
our blitz design sucks  
robbieballs2003 : 11/26/2014 3:04 pm : link
If the mentality is that we aren't effective when we blitz so we don't do it then should equate to if we suck at running the ball then we should abandon that.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 3:04 pm : link
In comment 12002681 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 12002663 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Everyone involved with this defense does.



what you don't seem to understand arcarsenal is that Coughlin is accountable for the defense; he's involved with it; it's not simply a matter of firing fewell as coordinator and bringing in mangini; coughlin is still going to have sway and influence over the philosophy of the D and deployment of personnel. that scardey cat "prevent" defense with the ineffective veternas on the last drive was all coughlin.


Now Coughlin is calling the plays?

That's news to me.
It's time to start looking  
silverfox : 11/26/2014 3:06 pm : link
...for a good real-estate agent Tom.
What Rolles sqid  
NEJINTSFAN : 11/26/2014 3:09 pm : link
Paul Schwartz's article quoted Rolle as pretty much saying the same thing TC said.

The front seven (including the back ups) are increduibly weak. Ayers was worthless this Sunday and Moore needs to take his job seriously and learn his assignments. Kiwi is done and JPP doesn't have the supporting cast he needs to shine. The interior of the line puts no pressure on the pocket and the LBa are too slow to cover on a bliz. Regardless of the coaching this team is going nowhere without significant upgraded in their defensive front 7. As for Accorsi wanting TC out- yeah he wanted Charlie Weiss- no thanks!
RE: RE: RE: .  
Les in TO : 11/26/2014 3:09 pm : link
In comment 12002696 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 12002681 Les in TO said:


Quote:


In comment 12002663 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Everyone involved with this defense does.



what you don't seem to understand arcarsenal is that Coughlin is accountable for the defense; he's involved with it; it's not simply a matter of firing fewell as coordinator and bringing in mangini; coughlin is still going to have sway and influence over the philosophy of the D and deployment of personnel. that scardey cat "prevent" defense with the ineffective veternas on the last drive was all coughlin.



Now Coughlin is calling the plays?

That's news to me.
he has the final say on who makes the team, who sees the field and the philosophical approach of the D. fewell is the coordinator and has plenty of blame/fault here. the buck stops with him. if the blitzing is poor or not well designed or is not surprising opposing QBs that's on him. playing a useless scrub in markus kuhn for significant minutes is on him. the sh*t show in the seattle game where they were gashed on the same play over and over due to mental mistakes by different players is on him.
they were gashed on the same play  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2014 3:16 pm : link
because they were physically overmatched.

You guys are comical. You want to let JPP walk, get rid of Kiwi and all the lb's, sign Suh, let Rolle walk and shoot Brown and Demps. That leaves two corners (one of whom is out for the year) and one DT.

And out of the other side of your mouths, you complain that the coaches aren't getting enough out of all these obvious talents.
RE: .  
81_Great_Dane : 11/26/2014 3:17 pm : link
In comment 12002663 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Are people really mad at Coughlin for "throwing his players under the bus" ?

He's right about them. They're playing like dogshit and a lot of them suck. They deserve to be called out.

Everyone involved with this defense does. Fewell already lost his job so it's going to be on some of these guys to either play better or go find a practice squad to land on.
I generally think it's bad for coaches to do this, but in this case, I agree. The coaches are feeling the heat, the players should, too.

Reading between the lines, I think TC will not support giving JPP a big contract or putting a franchise tag on him.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 3:18 pm : link
Then fire Coughlin.. but doing that also means McAdoo is probably gone as well. So if you'd like Eli to have to learn a 3rd offense and go into a 2nd year in a row having to do this, sure..

I'd probably rather just replace Fewell, hope for a solid offseason where we acquire more talent via FA and the draft and assume the offense will get better in year 2 and the defense will (hopefully) improve via some talent infusion and a new DC.

It's either that or we have to blow this entire thing up which leaves Eli in a pretty shitty spot having to spend the last of his career on a football team starting from scratch.
Guys...  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/26/2014 3:21 pm : link
I think if you read between the lines here you can see what TC is saying and he is 100% right.

In 2 of the last 7 years we have reached the pinnacle of greatness by using one philosophy on defense. Front 4 gets constant pressure with the occasional blitz. This isn't a hypothetical theory IT WORKS. As in PROVEN. They draft and approach FA with this philosophy in mind. Even in Spags year that was the way they thought.

TC is standing on a podium and saying -- "Hey- my philosophy works check out these two rings". Get me players and it works. Now throw 2 injury riddled defensive years on top of that and you get the shitshow that is 2014 giants d.

Think of it like a recipe. If I have a pecan pie recipe that everyone raves about and make it every year. Then two years in a row it doesn't taste well. Did I change the recipe or perhaps an ingredient out of my control has been altered.

You guys calling for TC will love being between. 4-10 and 3-13 for 10 years while a talentless roster is rebuilt and a 2 year cycle of head coaches starts. Might as well put a plane on the side of our helmet.
Spags:  
jintzz : 11/26/2014 3:21 pm : link
for HC in 2015
I Believe Coughlin, and he is right  
PatersonPlank : 11/26/2014 3:23 pm : link
IF you call a blitz and it doesn't get there, then you expose your DB's even more. We have all seen, and complained, about how our blitzes don't get there. Why is everyone having such a hard time with this?
RE: Spags:  
Sec 103 : 11/26/2014 3:35 pm : link
In comment 12002728 jintzz said:
Quote:
for HC in 2015


The stupid is strong with this one...
Problem is  
Danny Kanell : 11/26/2014 3:49 pm : link
This isn't something new. Our defense has pretty much sucked for 5 fucking years, outside of the 2011 playoffs.

The players aren't getting the job dont RIGHT NOW but they rarely have under Fewell. Comments like these make me really believe how TC is out of touch with reality. It also sounds as if he's laying the foundation for his meeting with ownership at season's end to explain what went wrong and why he and his staff should be retained.
Coughlin blowing smoke  
kepler20 : 11/26/2014 3:50 pm : link
while demanding that kiwi plays over Moore and ayers
.  
Danny Kanell : 11/26/2014 3:50 pm : link
In 2 of the last 7 years we have reached the pinnacle of greatness by using one philosophy on defense. Front 4 gets constant pressure with the occasional blitz. This isn't a hypothetical theory IT WORKS


Man so much wrong here.
Eric just posted the transcript  
NEJINTSFAN : 11/26/2014 4:00 pm : link
Liberated read than the NYDN excerpts. Clear he's holding coaches and players accountable. Pretty fair assessment of the Defense- doesn't signpe out DL only.
Liberated = better read- sorry about that  
NEJINTSFAN : 11/26/2014 4:01 pm : link
N
Danny Kanell  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/26/2014 4:02 pm : link
Ok enlighten me.

When the giants (or any team) acquire front four players for the specific purpose of generating front four pressure and build the defense around this concept it doesn't work? Two of the best days of our collective decade have come using this strategy.

Having the ability to drop linebackers into zones or have 7 men off the line of scrimmage doesn't create turnovers and make it incredibly difficult for a QB to find open receivers?

Tell me where I'm wrong because this I would love to hear.

RE: Guys...  
Bill in UT : 11/26/2014 4:07 pm : link
In comment 12002727 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
I think if you read between the lines here you can see what TC is saying and he is 100% right.

In 2 of the last 7 years we have reached the pinnacle of greatness by using one philosophy on defense. Front 4 gets constant pressure with the occasional blitz. This isn't a hypothetical theory IT WORKS. As in PROVEN. They draft and approach FA with this philosophy in mind. Even in Spags year that was the way they thought.

TC is standing on a podium and saying -- "Hey- my philosophy works check out these two rings". Get me players and it works. Now throw 2 injury riddled defensive years on top of that and you get the shitshow that is 2014 giants d.

Think of it like a recipe. If I have a pecan pie recipe that everyone raves about and make it every year. Then two years in a row it doesn't taste well. Did I change the recipe or perhaps an ingredient out of my control has been altered.

You guys calling for TC will love being between. 4-10 and 3-13 for 10 years while a talentless roster is rebuilt and a 2 year cycle of head coaches starts. Might as well put a plane on the side of our helmet.


First of all, I don't accept that the chef has no control over his pecan supply. But even if that was true, he either has the owner either change the guy who's supplying the nuts or he accepts his reality and switches to apple pie. You don't keep serving up shit year after year without taking responsibility for it.
RE: Danny Kanell  
Danny Kanell : 11/26/2014 4:09 pm : link
In comment 12002781 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Ok enlighten me.

When the giants (or any team) acquire front four players for the specific purpose of generating front four pressure and build the defense around this concept it doesn't work? Two of the best days of our collective decade have come using this strategy.

Having the ability to drop linebackers into zones or have 7 men off the line of scrimmage doesn't create turnovers and make it incredibly difficult for a QB to find open receivers?

Tell me where I'm wrong because this I would love to hear.


Our 2007 defensive philosophy could not possibly be more different than 2011.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 4:11 pm : link
Our defensive line was the reason we beat the Patriots both times. Period. Justin Tuck easily could have been the SB46 MVP.
RE: the blitzing is rare and when it happens it's predictable  
joe48 : 11/26/2014 4:13 pm : link
In comment 12002615 Les in TO said:
Quote:
how about throwing some different looks/pressures. bring a CB or safety blitz.

if your front four is not getting the job done on their own, it's up to the coaches to come up with some creative schemes to bring pressure. it could be that the blitzing isn't being practiced/coached in a crisp manner.

that is on both coughlin and PF.
We do not have the personnel to blitz well.
I don't  
Arcanum : 11/26/2014 4:14 pm : link
Recall the last time I seen a successful blitz under Fewell. I think the defense was doing good enough to possibly stop romo, if they didn't go prevent!! And the players didn't make that call.
RE: Danny Kanell  
Bill in UT : 11/26/2014 4:14 pm : link
In comment 12002781 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Ok enlighten me.

When the giants (or any team) acquire front four players for the specific purpose of generating front four pressure and build the defense around this concept it doesn't work? Two of the best days of our collective decade have come using this strategy.

Having the ability to drop linebackers into zones or have 7 men off the line of scrimmage doesn't create turnovers and make it incredibly difficult for a QB to find open receivers?

Tell me where I'm wrong because this I would love to hear.


Obviously it's great to have 4 guys who can pressure constantly without help. Pretty much a no-brainer. We haven't got that. So it sounds like you think we need to fire Reese. Until that gets done, when a good coaching staff gets handed lemons, they try to make lemonade. I don't see that happening here
It's everybody else fault  
Mason : 11/26/2014 4:15 pm : link
They don't how to win right like old Tom. No need to develop, coach or evaluate them. They stupid. They no understand.
RE: .  
Les in TO : 11/26/2014 4:16 pm : link
In comment 12002791 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Our defensive line was the reason we beat the Patriots both times. Period. Justin Tuck easily could have been the SB46 MVP.
agree on that - though i think he actually had a bigger impact on SB42, the safety in 46 notwithstanding.
DK  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/26/2014 4:20 pm : link
You're backpedaling hard.

In 2007 and 2011 the D-Line (top 5 guys) had over 25 sacks combined.

Compare that to a team that is constantly bringing LB's, CB's and S's to generate pressure and you now see exactly what the overall philosophy is.

If you only watch the Giants each week it may seem that they had 2 distinct defensive styles but if you watch other teams on a weekly basis you will see that for over a decade the general philosophy has been consistent.

Actually that happens a lot around here. I would venture that over 40% of the posters on here watch a consistent 5 hours of football per week- 3 hours of giants and the first quarter of the Sunday and Monday night games before they fall asleep.
Are we splitting atoms?  
area junc : 11/26/2014 4:26 pm : link
We are talking about getting someone to blitz- no reads- just running straight downhill. Shouldnt tom coughlin expect his professional DC to b able to teach his blitz packages effectively? Why is fewell completely exhonerated by coughlin here?

Blind stubborn loyalty. Same thing happened with ohara and diehl.
Lack of talent in the front seven plus injuries = no pass rush  
joe48 : 11/26/2014 4:26 pm : link
You can coach up talent. You can get players with less talent to play hard with limited results. The reason Moore and some of the others are not on the field is because they do not understand the defensive assignments. That is on them. It could also be on drafting guys that are not smart. This defense needs an overhaul up front but the new DC needs to give input on type of scheme for next year. You can't just plug in FA and draft choices and expect to make the playoffs. We are in the first year of probably a 3 yr rebuild. After OL we need some talented mean bodies in the front seven.
He has to defend his DC  
natefit : 11/26/2014 4:36 pm : link
AND they both need to go.
RE: This is just typical Coughlin  
regulator : 11/26/2014 4:46 pm : link
In comment 12002641 Jacobs27 said:
Quote:
When the shit hits the fan he puts all the blame on the players. Usually he's a bit more careful and talks about their lack of "execution" despite what a great week of "preparation" they had and now well they practiced.


Have you ever listened to a TC post game presser after a loss? The first thing he always says is that it's on him. The notion that he *always* blames the players is the biggest fucking myth going.
It's really weird that Coughlin is destroying his reputaiton  
SB : 11/26/2014 4:56 pm : link
...out of loyalty to some POS defensive coordinator.
RE: RE: This is just typical Coughlin  
Jacobs27 : 11/26/2014 4:57 pm : link
In comment 12002862 regulator said:
Quote:
In comment 12002641 Jacobs27 said:


Quote:


When the shit hits the fan he puts all the blame on the players. Usually he's a bit more careful and talks about their lack of "execution" despite what a great week of "preparation" they had and now well they practiced.



Have you ever listened to a TC post game presser after a loss? The first thing he always says is that it's on him. The notion that he *always* blames the players is the biggest fucking myth going.


I've read just about all of them. He always gives a token "blame me" before going to to state how well prepared the team was but for some reason they just didn't execute.

.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 5:00 pm : link
Destroying his reputation?

Stop it.

When all is said and done, a few pressers in the final weeks of a lost season are going to be the last thing anyone ever remembers about Tom Coughlin.

This isn't even a speck of shit on the radar of a man who has been around as long as he has and has had success.

It may well be time for him to call it a career. Maybe not. I don't know. But nothing he's doing right now is doing a damn thing to his reputation. He's defending his coordinator just like pretty much any HC would.
Maybe I need to go back and review  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 11/26/2014 5:13 pm : link
a prior game but...

Is anyone seeing stunts? OR, are we just lining up against the guy in front of us and that's it?
It's true  
bignygfan : 11/26/2014 5:21 pm : link
When TC says 'blame me' he is obviously lying.

The guy clearly doesn't take these defeats as seriously as BBI. And now he's a proven liar!

Only an incompetent coach thinks a four-man pass rush would work. That's why we want Spags to save us!

Defense was the bigger reason we won it in 2007.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/26/2014 5:25 pm : link
Offense (especially Eli and the passing game) was the bigger reason we won it in 2011.
this part why I believe fewell will be back  
micky : 11/26/2014 6:01 pm : link
Tc's guy. It is a player problem
I honestly don't think there's a chance in hell that Perry is back.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 6:28 pm : link
The defense this year is almost as bad as the offense was last year. And when the result of the overall season is as poor as it's heading, it's pretty clear this front office will not accept it and leave everything status quo.

Remember, Bill Sheridan lost his job here after just ONE year as DC because the team completely shit the bed down the stretch and the defense was a complete joke.

Perry has been here a while now. He's had plenty of time and even though I believe he's hard pressed to do much better with so many holes and some real garbage on the defensive side of the football, a change just has to be made.

The Giants can't and won't sell this mess to the fans as "well, it was just an off year, they will get it done next year"

The seat under Fewell's ass is hotter than anyone else's at this point and he's going to be the first guy to lose his job.

I think it's still 50/50 with TC and I still think it depends on how the rest of the year goes.
What's Kuhn and Kiwi doing in there on the final drive?  
jeff57 : 11/26/2014 6:31 pm : link
Did they force their way onto the field, or did Fewell put them in there, Tom?
RE: I honestly don't think there's a chance in hell that Perry is back.  
Sean : 11/26/2014 6:32 pm : link
In comment 12002999 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The defense this year is almost as bad as the offense was last year. And when the result of the overall season is as poor as it's heading, it's pretty clear this front office will not accept it and leave everything status quo.

Remember, Bill Sheridan lost his job here after just ONE year as DC because the team completely shit the bed down the stretch and the defense was a complete joke.

Perry has been here a while now. He's had plenty of time and even though I believe he's hard pressed to do much better with so many holes and some real garbage on the defensive side of the football, a change just has to be made.

The Giants can't and won't sell this mess to the fans as "well, it was just an off year, they will get it done next year"

The seat under Fewell's ass is hotter than anyone else's at this point and he's going to be the first guy to lose his job.

I think it's still 50/50 with TC and I still think it depends on how the rest of the year goes.


I'd guess the decision on Coughlin has been made already. I highly doubt a coach who has accomplished as much as Coughlin has here will have his fate decided by a couple of meaningless games against sub par competition.
RE: It's true  
Jacobs27 : 11/26/2014 6:32 pm : link
In comment 12002907 bignygfan said:
Quote:
When TC says 'blame me' he is obviously lying.

The guy clearly doesn't take these defeats as seriously as BBI. And now he's a proven liar!



If he really felt these problems were his fault he'd retire right? Or do you think he'd just keep taking $5 million a year from the Mara's when he believed he was no longer an effective coach?

And if you think he's telling the truth that the team's failure to perform was his fault then why do you still want him as a coach?
RE: He has to defend his DC  
jeff57 : 11/26/2014 6:33 pm : link
In comment 12002838 natefit said:
Quote:
AND they both need to go.


Yes. Coughlin as Giants' coach is past it's expiration date.
RE: RE: I honestly don't think there's a chance in hell that Perry is back.  
arcarsenal : 11/26/2014 6:40 pm : link
In comment 12003005 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 12002999 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


The defense this year is almost as bad as the offense was last year. And when the result of the overall season is as poor as it's heading, it's pretty clear this front office will not accept it and leave everything status quo.

Remember, Bill Sheridan lost his job here after just ONE year as DC because the team completely shit the bed down the stretch and the defense was a complete joke.

Perry has been here a while now. He's had plenty of time and even though I believe he's hard pressed to do much better with so many holes and some real garbage on the defensive side of the football, a change just has to be made.

The Giants can't and won't sell this mess to the fans as "well, it was just an off year, they will get it done next year"

The seat under Fewell's ass is hotter than anyone else's at this point and he's going to be the first guy to lose his job.

I think it's still 50/50 with TC and I still think it depends on how the rest of the year goes.



I'd guess the decision on Coughlin has been made already. I highly doubt a coach who has accomplished as much as Coughlin has here will have his fate decided by a couple of meaningless games against sub par competition.


The games are meaningless as far as playoff chances are concerned but there are things you look for in these games that I think give clues as to whether or not the team is still responding to Tom and whether or not we look like we can move in a better or worse direction.

I'm sure ownership is leaning one way or another on him but I think it's still possible for what transpires over the course of the next 5 games to sway them in the other direction.

For instance, if they're leaning towards keeping him right now and assume they are going to but we lose all 5 of these remaining games or go like 1-4 and it keeps looking like there are new holes in the ship and it is just sinking even faster, I could see them scrapping that idea and deciding to move in a new direction.

Conversely, if they're leaning towards getting rid of him and we play some inspired ball the last few weeks and win most of or all of the games, maybe they say "alright, he can still do this"

The way a team responds to a coach in a lost season usually says a lot about the coach. These games aren't as meaningless as you may think in that regard.

I'm sure they do have some general idea of what they think they're going to do already, though.
The McAdoo aspect makes it tough to predict..  
Sean : 11/26/2014 7:20 pm : link
how much are they invested in McAdoo? Bringing in an entire new offense just to start over again next year is not functional. I said it at the time, I thought they should have extended Coughlin when they hired McAdoo. Three offenses in three seasons is not good.
RE: RE: Danny Kanell  
Great White Ghost : 11/26/2014 7:32 pm : link
In comment 12002797 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 12002781 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


Ok enlighten me.

When the giants (or any team) acquire front four players for the specific purpose of generating front four pressure and build the defense around this concept it doesn't work? Two of the best days of our collective decade have come using this strategy.

Having the ability to drop linebackers into zones or have 7 men off the line of scrimmage doesn't create turnovers and make it incredibly difficult for a QB to find open receivers?

Tell me where I'm wrong because this I would love to hear.




Obviously it's great to have 4 guys who can pressure constantly without help. Pretty much a no-brainer. We haven't got that. So it sounds like you think we need to fire Reese. Until that gets done, when a good coaching staff gets handed lemons, they try to make lemonade. I don't see that happening here
They did try. The guy bringing the sugar got into an accident and never arrived. What we are left with is this bitter brew.
Coughlin is the biggest problem  
dcable : 11/26/2014 8:11 pm : link
He controls all aspecting of the team but does not accept responsibility. Until he goes, It will be the same sh*t next year
RE: Coughlin is the biggest problem  
cokeduplt : 11/26/2014 8:47 pm : link
In comment 12003152 dcable said:
Quote:
He controls all aspecting of the team but does not accept responsibility. Until he goes, It will be the same sh*t next year


Agree 100!!
Agree 200%  
jeff57 : 11/26/2014 9:31 pm : link
They need to start over.
Arc  
SB : 11/26/2014 10:33 pm : link
Your right, destroy is the wrong word. Tarnish his reputation is more of what I was trying to convey. You'd think a coach would be pissed that his DC gave up a historically bad amount of rushing yards, followed by 7 and 8 second pockets. Instead he supports Fewell's decision to leave his best pass rushers on the bench during the game deciding drive because they aren't good at run defense during practice? By doing that, Coughlin is making himself look just as inept as Fewell. Why?
Lets not lose sight of the fact that TC  
nicky43 : 11/26/2014 10:53 pm : link
has way too much class and is too professional to call out his coaches in a public forum. We will never know what he says behind closed doors.
RE: Lets not lose sight of the fact that TC  
Mason : 11/27/2014 12:31 am : link
In comment 12003334 nicky43 said:
Quote:
has way too much class and is too professional to call out his coaches in a public forum. We will never know what he says behind closed doors.


Oh please, Coughlin has called out his coaches when the heat was fully on him. Coughlin has turned into a guy more focus on his legacy than doing the duties of a HC. He goes from being obvious to not knowing why Moore is not getting snaps to being all aware of Moore's practice habits. Confused about miscommunication issues in the secondary but then proclaiming the players were given a game plan but railed to excute properly. He is a man inconsistencies after losses.
RE: Coughlin is the biggest problem  
dcable : 11/27/2014 12:44 pm : link
In comment 12003152 dcable said:
Quote:
He controls all aspecting of the team but does not accept responsibility. Until he goes, It will be the same sh*t next year


Your toitlly correct. It will bew the same lame excuses nestr year if that (TC) jerk remains as HC. Last year he said KG did a good job, now he defends PF. No0w I honestly believe they won the 2 Super Bowls DESPITE TC
Fewell's Flex and Fold Mentality  
D_Giants : 11/27/2014 2:20 pm : link
TC needs to face the fact that Fewell is the fool that TC chose. For the past three years we have witnessed the D line hold the other offense to 3rd and long, only to have Fewell rush 2 or 3 guys on third down.

For some reason, Fewell thinks that having 8 guys (including a DE) hanging out in the backfield is better than pressuring high-quality quarterbacks.

Would you like to play in Fewell's wimpy-ass prevent- defense schemes? Against Dallas we would have been better off letting Romo score on the first play, thereby preserving the final 2.5 minutes for Manning to march down the field and toss a behind-the-receiver, game-ending interception from Dallas' 10-yard line.
If it is purely a talent issue  
#10* : 11/27/2014 2:36 pm : link
What are you going to teach or scheme to make up for that talent? Because your not going to get 5 1st round draft picks dumped in your lap anytime soon. It comes back to coaching.

Otherwise expect to give up 30 a game. Is your offense capable of averaging 31 a game? If not expect a loss.


Coughlin sounds like he's at his wits end  
Giants4246 : 11/27/2014 2:45 pm : link
with this whole situation.
at what point does the coaching staff  
fkap : 11/27/2014 5:17 pm : link
have to hold responsibility for young players not progressing, and older players regressing?

It's never coaching or talent. It's a combo of both. both line coaches have coached a big goose egg for several years. I'll give McAdoo a pass for joining this shit show, but Gilbride and Fewell have had systems that only work under perfect conditions. The secondary coach hasn't been anything to write home about in years. Special teams needs not be mentioned. The bottom line is that the coordinators and assistants are really nothing to look at. Yet TC is some genius of a head coach.
OK, so if it's the players and not Fewell, then is Tom indirectly  
Bobby Epps : 11/27/2014 8:00 pm : link
throwing R&R under the bus?

Because despite what Colin writes/believes, SOME PERSON makes the final decision as to which rookie to pick in each round and which vet FA to sign. Ross makes the final recommendations as to draftees and Reese makes the final decision.; Resse makes the final decision as to vet FAs.

IMO Tom cannot have it both ways: either Fewell called a terrible series of defensive plays or Fewell called the correct defensive plays but the terrible defensive players furnished by R&R could not implement Fewell's calls. Someone is to blame for the defensive collapse against the Cowboys in the last 3 minutes.
Fewell is Coughlun's guy  
aquidneck : 11/27/2014 8:05 pm : link
Blames someone for defensive collapse, blame Coughlin.
pretty clear Coughlin is responsible for performsnce of O-line too  
aquidneck : 11/27/2014 8:09 pm : link
Why do you think the team held onto Deihl and Snee so long and why on earth was Charles Brown the first guy off the bench when team suffered in-season injury?
What goes on the on the field: the buck stops with Coughlin  
jeff57 : 11/28/2014 8:30 am : link
He needs to be held accountable.
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