I've read and re-read what Tom had to say. And yes, I'm going to start another thread. I'm a Coughlin supporter. Haven't always been the most vocal on this, but I love the guy. Having said that...if Moore is really having that hard of a time learning the defense...that is on coaching.
It's not on Reese (who I've been shredding all season). Reese gave these coaches (not just Tom) a young and very physically gifted young man who has shown occasional flashes on ST and on defense. But Tom says the confidence isn't there during the week that Moore knows his assignments.
OK. That, BBI...is 100% on the coaching staff. That is on Robert Nunn, who has had a tenure just as long as Fewell. That is on Fewell who oversees Nunn. That is on Coughlin who oversees the whole staff. What is the job of a coach? To get the most out of his players. This is a third round pick who produced highly at Texas A & M. But our coaches have failed in teaching him. This young man needs more attention from Nunn. But the limited time he has been on the field he hasn't been invisible. We have a valuable and physically talented DE on a unit that is desperate for pass rushing and our coaches can't get this kid to understand his assignments? We need coaches who can teach better.
One of the hallmarks of this defense is missed assignments in the secondary, poor angles by linebackers, DEs being unable to hold contain on the outside. Are we drafting the world's dumbest players or is it possible our coaching staff on mass, is failing to teach these players how to play the NFL game?
This, is on coaching.
Unlike middle linebacker when you have to make the defensive calls/audibles and have a very firm grasp of what the opponent looks to be doing, DE is not such a cerebral position.
If the player isn't getting it, yes it's on him to spend extra time watching film and perfecting his craft, but it's also on the coaches to ensure the schemes/assignments are communicated in a way that is efficiently understood by the players. I get the sense that this coaching staff takes a very hands off approach to understanding complex assignments and places an unreasonable amount of expectation on the players to study/figure it out themselves, when sometimes you need to spend some extra time with certain players to ensure they are coached in the best position to succeed.
Example Dallas and what Mirinelli is doing.
What part of the mental aspect does Moore not get? See the guy with the star on his helmet taking the snap, go get him please. Its silly, old fasihioned menatality. Moore can rush the passer, so let him do so, that's why he was drafted.
Could be that the coaching staff has just been around here too long. Could also be the talent level, but for not one guy to make some strides seems to be a little more than just the talent.
Fu$! them all, time to move forward.
It's also possible that the coaches are either asking too much of him and should simplify his assignments OR they should accept his mistakes because his good plays outnumber the bad ones. The coaches' conservative philosophy may hurt the team.
It's the coaches responsibility to TEACH. If he doesn't get it, devote more time to him. Get creative in your coaching. These coaches have ascended to the top level of their craft, they have to teach. And if the players they are charged with developing don't understand their assignments. That ultimately is on the coach not succeeding as a teacher.
JPP probably knew less than Moore coming in and he was still productive when given the opportunity. Moore is in his 2nd season and get even play during obvious pass rush situations???
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Not sure I agree. It's the coaches fault he can't follow orders?
It's the coaches responsibility to TEACH. If he doesn't get it, devote more time to him. Get creative in your coaching. These coaches have ascended to the top level of their craft, they have to teach. And if the players they are charged with developing don't understand their assignments. That ultimately is on the coach not succeeding as a teacher.
I'm 100% in agreement. Continued missed assignments by not one, not two, but several players (both sides of the ball). Just posted it before on another thread - this is not all talentless players. This appears to be bad coaching.
Sure, Fewell or Nunn or Coughlin could say these are NFL players, they should just know it. They should simply understand what they need to do. But when multiple players on multiple units over multiple years clearly struggle with what they need to be doing on a multiple plays. At some point you look to the people who are coaching them. We have had a bottom three defense like 3 out of the last 4 years. A lot of different players on these teams. Same defensive line coach. Same defensive coordinator.
Moore's not the first person to go into Coughlin's and remain chained there. Just another reason why it's time for him to go.
Perhaps TC and JR have a huge disconnect in communication, don't know but if I am the GM, and I draft a pass rush specialist to play 4-3 DE in round 3, I expect the criteria to have the guy play is that he can put pressure on the passer as step 1. No?
Remember before his senior season he was projected to be a 1st round pick.
Productive nfl players realize that in a game that often comes down to millimeters that the nuances often separate the great from the good and the good from the bums.
The point is that Moore certainly can rush the passer without knowing "assignments." What the heck does that mean for a DE anyway? Maybe if they didn't drop into coverage they wouldn't need to know plays. Slant left, slant right, stunt here, stunt there that's basic DL play. Let the kid play. We stink anyway.
Moore is wasting away on the bench.
As an executive I accept the blame when people are underperforming, and even more importantly recognize why. You pick people as best as you can. You'll make some mistakes. At the end of the day it's how you develop them that produces results. If my people fail consistently at a task for 3 or 5 years it's not them. It's me.
You can put 100 people performing the same task in a pot, shake it up, pull out a certain number and after a couple of years measure your results. Whether you consistently win or fail is on you. It's not on the pot unless the pot is ALWAYS Fk'd up. The Giant's pot has not always been Fk'd up.
It's also possible that the coaches are either asking too much of him and should simplify his assignments OR they should accept his mistakes because his good plays outnumber the bad ones. The coaches' conservative philosophy may hurt the team.
But if that is the case then the only way to fix it is to get him live reps.
Remember before his senior season he was projected to be a 1st round pick.
Productive nfl players realize that in a game that often comes down to millimeters that the nuances often separate the great from the good and the good from the bums.
From all reports that I have read about him recently, I wouldn't make that assumption. He was working with Strahan in the offseason to get better. I don't think a lazy person would do that. There were questions about his work ethic when in college though.
Our coaches suck not to use him, that's the key to this season without a doubt.
The only thing I can say is that Reese is to be commended for the roster he put together and that includes Moore.
True..but Donnell was on PS his first year played primarily specials last year if I recall. Maybe he started one game? I honestly don't know how often position coaches instruct PS players.
The questions is NOT only COULD DMoore improve the D in a given game - it's also about whether playing him extended snaps sends the right message to the other players (and to him).
Not all players are coachable and it doesn't mean they are stupid if they are not. For some, the game at this level just moves too fast for them to keep up. For some, the pressure at this level, on the field, in front of 50,000 screaming fans is too much and it effects their ability to focus and concentrate on the job.
I seriously doubt that TC, with his record, experience, and clearly being a HOF coach, does not know how to coach confidence and the other things. You just can't expect everyone to be able to keep up with the game at this level.
In my mind, TC knows and performs his job better than any other player and coach knows their respective jobs so TC is the least of our problems. Like the OP, I too blame Reece for the serious lack of talent and depth at several key positions.
He slipped to the third round for a reason.
Regardless, playing him on obvious passing downs sure seems like a way to simplify his reads - just rush the passer! Doesn't get much easier than that. Maybe the coaches want to see him play with a certain technique. Not the 5, 7 or 9 kind, but a certain leverage or something like that. Maybe he just isn't showing them what the coaches want to see and a good opposing offensive staff will easily take advantage of Moore if he is out there for any significant amount of time. I'm reaching here ...
Moore is no LT. But I really don't think LT played with the best technique or leverage or whatever all the time. LT often did what he wanted out there.
Instead he rushes the passer and sacks the QB. Another missed assignment?
Other than hemorrhoids. You wont develop anything, riding the bench.
Even if that's true, we used a 3rd round pick on him. Why? What did this staff think they could do to change that, and based on what?
You earn your right to play in the game during the week.
The players understand that
You have to reward the guys who set the right example
Now I want DMoore to play more
I'm just saying that we don't know what goes on during the week
But to BR's point, try to remember that Moore never played atA&M with his hand on the ground except for maybe 50% of his snaps his last year. He is still brand new to the position and as frustrating as it is to wait, Moore needed time. I would be surprised & disappointed if he doesn't " get it" at DE next year.
What we do know is that Moore is a natural playmaker and his instincts are phenomenal. Fewell doesnt do anything elaborate anyways.
Kid can't learn from the bench.
That's the same circular logic used to justify the running game.
Coughlins refusal to admit that his staff has chosen the wrong approach is bordering on the ridiculous. Ayers and Moore are the two best rushers after JPP. If you need a pass rush, those guys have to be in there. Worrying about the run is ridiculous. You want them to run the ball in the two minute drill
IIRC, the Cowboys got the ball back with about 3 mins left. My thought at that point was the Cowboys are going to run the ball and score without giving us enough time to respond.
When we put our base D in, the decision was made easy - throw the ball.
Now, when Romo was holding the ball for 8 seconds on successive plays, not doing anything to improve the pass rush is pretty indefensible.
Even if the idea is - if they score with enough time left - we can tie and/or win it with our offense--
Blitzing to try to make a play would have made more sense than keeping your pass rushers on the bench
DM may be the next Cameron Wake, you can decide how long you want to wait to find out. Plus, he's a kid.
A. The player does not know how to tackle
AND/OR
B. The player cannot matchup physically against an O-Lineman.
If the answer is yes for either one of these, then said player does not belong playing D line in the NFL. Stop drafting tweeners.
Perhaps a clean sweep & going with coaches who have a proven track record of coaching players up.
Can't blitz. Can't rush the passer. Can't tackle or take the proper angles. WTH? This is not brain surgery. This is football.