The Eli criticism has crossed the line into absurdity...

of course you think all Eli criticism crosses the line into absurdity but whatevs.

There was a football franchise named the New York Giants. This football team was horrible they had no quarterback no wide receivers no talent on defense and were the laughingstock of the NFL.

Then through the grace of God they were given a GM by the league because the owners hated each other. This GM brought Drafted a quarterback name Simms.He was our first franchise quarterback and he got hurt a lot which led to really bad quarterbacks After he left the game it lead to lots of non-franchise quarterbacks lots of losing.

The Giants became a team that was known for their defense because their quarterbacks were so average.

Then finally after years of frustration the Giants finally drafted a franchise quarterback named Eli Manning.

He has since taken us to two Super Bowl's and was the MVP of both Super Bowl's and has broken most of the passing records of the franchise and has never been in trouble with the law or done anything that would embarrass the franchise
he just wins. But he cannot do it on his own he has to have the supporting structure to win you have to be protected so that he can make the big pass he has to have weapons to throw to He has to have a running game.

Football is a team sport it's not one man Eli has proved before that he can win the big one with the right cast.
He is the best quarterback this franchise has ever had. Put it back on the map.
Too many of the younger fans forget how bad this franchise was without a quarterback and how hard it was to get a quarterback.Yet since Eli is not a fantasy football star you guys would rather shit on him then rejoice that you have a quarterback who brought you to Super Bowl victory.nWaaa what have you done for me lately.
I have also heard that most of you complain about the salary cap and the money that you think he will be making.
Do you not realize the team can work around the salary cap to get the players that they need all teams do it.
you don't have to have a quarterback that does not make much to nothing to suceed.Or a quarterback that is overpaid.
in this league with these guys coming after him every week And the hits takes for this team because he has no protection,I say pay the man because he is worth it. He's never had a major injury and can keep you in every game when given a team around him

But I guess most of you would rather shit on him.

now that was a throw that was off target and Tyree saved Eli's bacon

In comment 12003025 chris r said:

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of course you think all Eli criticism crosses the line into absurdity but whatevs.

And the dunce can't help himself..

Eli is quietly having one his best three seasons in every stat except wins, despite no running game, a 32nd ranked defense, and shitty blocking.

puts us ahead in the 4th quarter with 2 minutes to go, yet people are pissed and want to make a switch. This is idiotic. I'd love to see how they react to the 25 or so Qbs in the league who are worse. I think I would pay to watch a game thread where Cutler was their QB.

Eli sailing interception (high throw) in that Dallas game was a huge dependent variable in losing that football game, or more simply an NFL stat about losing and turnovers. With our shitty defense we need points and not turnovers in the red zone area, whether it is 7 or 3 points.

Oh and then we have our record, 3 wins. Criticism is par for the course friends.

is having a good year (except for one game), and anyone calling for the team to sit him or dump him is wrong and would regret if it happened. He's a good QB and a great representative of the team. Like every other QB he makes mistakes and has bad games. I think those mistakes or games are fair subjects in discussions of the team. Everyone has opinions and those opinions can be argued against if you disagree. Personally, I think personal insults and attacks on posters for voicing their opinion is more egregious than daring to criticize one of Eli's plays. But that's just me.

until the Giants provide him an oline to maintain the statue QB model, just as Brady and his brother enjoy. Dallas finally figured it out, in that Romo will never take them to the SB until he can stand flat footed like he did on Sunday against us. Eli needs the same.

but, on a serious note...
Eli's throw was perfect. If OBJ did not get held there at the end, the ball would have dropped right into his hands/

to QB the Giants? Strawman.

The fact is that Eli is the starting QB of a putrid 3-8 team. Last season he was the starting QB for a team that began 0-6 and beat trash to limp to 7-9 (realistically more like a 4-12 team). His team continues to miss the playoffs. This will be 3 years in a row. 5 of the last 6. Is much of that mediocrity or worse due to injuries and shitty drafting? Undoubtedly. But you can't absolve universally of blame the QB that has started every one of those games throughout this multi-year ugly stretch.

Eli is a very good quarterback, on his own merit and especially relative to the pedestrian or worse QBs around the league. But people look around and see the Bradys and Rodgers' of the NFL and it's hard not to be a little envious of how they consistently elevate their teams to a degree that Manning does not. He can at times (2011 post-season, e.g.) but he doesn't do it consistently and it's frustrating.

What do you think Rodgers/Brady would have our team at?

I'm curious as to what people think those guys are worth relative to Eli in terms of wins.

In comment 12003228 BrettNYG10 said:

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What do you think Rodgers/Brady would have our team at? I'm curious as to what people think those guys are worth relative to Eli in terms of wins.

That is tough to say. I agree with Overseer that Eli does not elevate the offense. He does not make the marginal players better. When he has a sub par offense around him, he/we cannot afford to have THAT MANY errant passes or decisions. There is no margin of error for him unfortunately. So, to miss two of those TD passes were killer for us vs Dallas because we simply are not good enough to overcome that.

Now, to answer your question. I don't know... maybe Rodgers, Brady, Luck are good for two more wins? There really is no way to tell for sure. A question that cannot be answered. I will say this though.... if McAdoo continues to call for the QB to roll out, then Rodgers or Luck will probably be more successful there.

Back to Britt's original point. The criticism is absurd now. Eli is our QB. There is not a line of better QB's waiting for the Giants to call. Eli is more than capable of winning another championship here IF WE PUT A TEAM AROUND HIM.

In comment 12003237 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:

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In comment 12003228 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: What do you think Rodgers/Brady would have our team at? I'm curious as to what people think those guys are worth relative to Eli in terms of wins. That is tough to say. I agree with Overseer that Eli does not elevate the offense. He does not make the marginal players better. When he has a sub par offense around him, he/we cannot afford to have THAT MANY errant passes or decisions. There is no margin of error for him unfortunately. So, to miss two of those TD passes were killer for us vs Dallas because we simply are not good enough to overcome that. Now, to answer your question. I don't know... maybe Rodgers, Brady, Luck are good for two more wins? There really is no way to tell for sure. A question that cannot be answered. I will say this though.... if McAdoo continues to call for the QB to roll out, then Rodgers or Luck will probably be more successful there. Back to Britt's original point. The criticism is absurd now. Eli is our QB. There is not a line of better QB's waiting for the Giants to call. Eli is more than capable of winning another championship here IF WE PUT A TEAM AROUND HIM.

i disagree.

i think eli consistently raises the level of play of others around him. in 2011 our defense and run game were ranked anywhere from 25th to 31st... the passing game was 8th...

i think what you said is kinda a trope that giants fans allowed other people to beat them into accepting... but it isnt true.

It must be pointed out how productive both were in the final 6 games that season including playoffs, from the jet game onward

eli "carried" the giants to a 7-7 record that year, a feat in itself given that could have easily been a 3-11 team by that point without the upper echelon passing game we possessed in eli's career year. But after that moment the entire team was clicking at the highest level (including but not remotely limited to eli playing very well) , special teams was awesome too and basically won us the nfc title game. The narrative with regards to eli carrying a bad team to a lombardi trophy that season was a bit of a stretch. He got us to 7-7 before it all came together

In comment 12003253 blakjedi said:

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In comment 12003237 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said: Quote: In comment 12003228 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: What do you think Rodgers/Brady would have our team at? I'm curious as to what people think those guys are worth relative to Eli in terms of wins. That is tough to say. I agree with Overseer that Eli does not elevate the offense. He does not make the marginal players better. When he has a sub par offense around him, he/we cannot afford to have THAT MANY errant passes or decisions. There is no margin of error for him unfortunately. So, to miss two of those TD passes were killer for us vs Dallas because we simply are not good enough to overcome that. Now, to answer your question. I don't know... maybe Rodgers, Brady, Luck are good for two more wins? There really is no way to tell for sure. A question that cannot be answered. I will say this though.... if McAdoo continues to call for the QB to roll out, then Rodgers or Luck will probably be more successful there. Back to Britt's original point. The criticism is absurd now. Eli is our QB. There is not a line of better QB's waiting for the Giants to call. Eli is more than capable of winning another championship here IF WE PUT A TEAM AROUND HIM. i disagree. i think eli consistently raises the level of play of others around him. in 2011 our defense and run game were ranked anywhere from 25th to 31st... the passing game was 8th... i think what you said is kinda a trope that giants fans allowed other people to beat them into accepting... but it isnt true.

No man, I don't think you understand what it means to elevate the players around you. Has nothing to do with offensive stats.

how many more wins would a Rodgers/Brady/Luck be worth on this identical Giants team (coaches and all)? Luck, we know, took a 2-14 team and flipped them to 11-5 (although, to be fair, some of those 14 losses were due to tanking). Rodgers is a stupid good player. I don't think he misses Odell Beckham last week when he zoomed past the corner (could be wrong about that).

I'd wager that in this NFC East, Rodgers at least would have them competitive into the final weeks in a way that Eli does not. And, look, AR is an historically great QB and no one is claiming Eli is as good, but I'm saying it's understandable to want a little more from Manning and to not just be content with "do you know how hard it is to find a franchise QB???"

and its not just off target throws. Lets stop sugar coating the interceptions as " he is trying to make something happpen'. The guy is a mistake prone QB with accuracy issues. We keep talking about how nice a season Eli is having. Lets talk about the other QB's having even better season. There are plenty of them so it seems Eli is just average in todays QB world.

In comment 12003280 xman said:

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and its not just off target throws. Lets stop sugar coating the interceptions as " he is trying to make something happpen'. The guy is a mistake prone QB with accuracy issues. We keep talking about how nice a season Eli is having. Lets talk about the other QB's having even better season. There are plenty of them so it seems Eli is just average in todays QB world.

Name 1 QB who is doing better with less around him.

and what they have done . Christ how hard is it to sack this statue? If the shoe were on the other foot our team would love to be going up against a one dimentional QB with poor mechanics and cement for feet. How many teams have such good or great Ol's? Better yet how many teams have poor OL's? You think the top QB's all have great OL? They manage to either throw a nice quick pass or an accurate pass. They survive. Remember when the Pitt QB got sacked the first three plays of a Monday night game with his jaw almost broken on the last sack? He then went on torebound and kill the other team. I bet if that happened to our team it would be lights out game over. Happy feet.

sucks...threads like these just keep me further away. Good effort, Britt, but as Frank Zappa said, stupid is the most prominent element on earth.

In comment 12003264 MarshallOnMontana said:

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It must be pointed out how productive both were in the final 6 games that season including playoffs, from the jet game onward eli "carried" the giants to a 7-7 record that year, a feat in itself given that could have easily been a 3-11 team by that point without the upper echelon passing game we possessed in eli's career year. But after that moment the entire team was clicking at the highest level (including but not remotely limited to eli playing very well) , special teams was awesome too and basically won us the nfc title game. The narrative with regards to eli carrying a bad team to a lombardi trophy that season was a bit of a stretch. He got us to 7-7 before it all came together

this was you in the Giants-Pats Super Bowl post game thread from 2012..

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How sick is this MarshallOnMontana : 2/6/2012 7:07 am : link Eli Manning career 4th quarter in the SB 19 for 28, 270 yards, 3 TD 0 INT 134.5 passer rating

And if I recall correctly, you praised Eli immensely during that whole season, and you know what...that's called being a fan. Now, two seasons later all you do is poor cold water on what Eli has accomplished here. Really weird from a supposed Giant fan.

Needs an O line to keep people off him as the Dallas O line kept people off Romeo last time out. It's that simple. Give him time and Eli will deliver. For years to come. So find those missing two or three O line guys (include a new LT -- Beatty is ordinary at best and at worst way less) and the O will be what it is supposed to be. Eli is the solution. not the problem.

no one can take that away from him. Ironically his worst game statistically was by far the most impressive of that run.

Eli and the offense have to play a perfect game to win, that speaks against the defense. And not the offense. Yeah he threw a pick against Dallas. But made up for it, but give the defense the lead with 2 mins left.

In comment 12003324 Overseer said:

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no one can take that away from him. Ironically his worst game statistically was by far the most impressive of that run.

Exactly.

Please explain to me the contradiction between those 2 posts. I said eli was terrific in the playoffs. I guess simply mentioning that other aspects of the team were also pretty much lights out is "pouring cold water on eli". And it makes me a "supposed giants fan". Please sean, grow up

This is just basically further highlighting exactly what im talking about.

I guess what I'm getting at is your tone as the 2011 season was happening seems different now looking back at it 2 years later. I guess it is mainly because of the 9-7, 7-9, and now 3-8 records since.

I just fail to see a contradiction. Eli was terrific that season. I said it then and i will say it now. Nothing has changed. What you seem to take exception with is the mere mention that the entire team was on a roll from the jet game onward. Thats not throwing water on eli. Thats just a fact. That was a really shitty team outside of the passing offense until late that year, but everything took off in that jet game

Is the QB almost all of us wanted on the field when the season started except for maybe a few nothing wrong with that maybe they felt we would suck. The issue is that he has started 11 games in this offense and we are 3-8 his stats while better this year in this offense are really not great. What more does he need to learn or do that's going to make this team better or change a wasted season. Is he the only reason we are 3-8 no but he is part of the problem as much as any starter on this team.

We have a young QB on the roster which we have no idea about his ability to produce under the bright lights in the NFL. If now is not the time to find out I can't imagine when that time will come except the starter get's hurt which I'm sure most of us hope does not happen. It's a wasted season except we find out about many young players on this roster who have seen no real live games time. I'm a very strong believer if you are playing for PRIDE then please do so in games 1-11 not game numbers 12-16 when all pride is gone.

how ordinary we made Brady and Rodgers look when they had no time to throw. The offense revolves around the oline and our is putrid. Criticizing anyone on the offense is misplaced until the line gets fixed.

...is because its not thrown perfectly.

In comment 12003400 silverfox said:

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...is because its not thrown perfectly.

If you ignore the pass interference it was a bad throw. If you take into consideration that ODJ was slowed down illegally it was a good throw.

In comment 12003370 Dragon said:

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Is the QB almost all of us wanted on the field when the season started except for maybe a few nothing wrong with that maybe they felt we would suck. The issue is that he has started 11 games in this offense and we are 3-8 his stats while better this year in this offense are really not great. What more does he need to learn or do that's going to make this team better or change a wasted season. Is he the only reason we are 3-8 no but he is part of the problem as much as any starter on this team. We have a young QB on the roster which we have no idea about his ability to produce under the bright lights in the NFL. If now is not the time to find out I can't imagine when that time will come except the starter get's hurt which I'm sure most of us hope does not happen. It's a wasted season except we find out about many young players on this roster who have seen no real live games time. I'm a very strong believer if you are playing for PRIDE then please do so in games 1-11 not game numbers 12-16 when all pride is gone.

You honestly believe Eli has been as bad as guys on the OL, Randle, and anyone on defense? Holy cow. Thats just absurd. I am not claiming Eli has been all world this year, but outside Beckham.... tell me ONE player on the Giants team who has been better than Eli.

The point is he's having a great year--had one really bad game, and that throw, after watching it a bunch of times was clearly just about perfect. Carr grabs OBJ and clearly slows him down, as he pulls himself past OBJ where the ball should have been, and where Carr thrusted himself off of OBJ.

Now Eli critics go fuck yourselves truly. He'll be gone soon enough and you'll be longing for the days...

Is having a pretty good year behind a crummy line with the exception of the disaster game a couple weeks ago.

However the OBJ catch was about 90% OBJ.

Firstly, there is a large group this overly critical every move he makes. Secondly, his defenders are VERY quick to jump up to his defense (and they do get defensive). Obviously, with a community this size there is a large middle group as well, but they don't appear remotely as vocal as the other two extreme groups.

Really, really, tough to have a reasonable discussion about Eli here.

"Silent Majority" applies.

I couldn't agree with your OP more.

Of all the things wrong with this Giants team we nitpick Eli's performance. He is the least of our worries; the least.

And it's not about shutting down discussion on a message board. It's about critiquing a TD pass; now that's absurd.

In comment 12003271 Overseer said:

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how many more wins would a Rodgers/Brady/Luck be worth on this identical Giants team (coaches and all)? Luck, we know, took a 2-14 team and flipped them to 11-5 (although, to be fair, some of those 14 losses were due to tanking). Rodgers is a stupid good player. I don't think he misses Odell Beckham last week when he zoomed past the corner (could be wrong about that). I'd wager that in this NFC East, Rodgers at least would have them competitive into the final weeks in a way that Eli does not. And, look, AR is an historically great QB and no one is claiming Eli is as good, but I'm saying it's understandable to want a little more from Manning and to not just be content with "do you know how hard it is to find a franchise QB???"

I think Luck and Rodgers have them at 6-5. Their mobility would keep drives alive. I think they Win the Dallas and SF games, maybe the 1st Dallas game. Radgers has had years with an oline as porous as Eli (or worse) and kept the Pack winning. I think Rodgers would do better than Luck.

Brady's immobility probably doesn't help, so I doubt he gets anymore than one or maybe two wins.

Eli is what he is. He needs an average or better oline to give him time to throw. We live with the poor throws as we live with the great - Manningham, OBJ etc.

This place is fucking brutal. Eric should really turn this into a pay site, maybe that would keep some of the morons/trolls out.

I can't wait until Eli wins another SB.

In comment 12003454 section125 said:

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In comment 12003271 Overseer said: Quote: how many more wins would a Rodgers/Brady/Luck be worth on this identical Giants team (coaches and all)? Luck, we know, took a 2-14 team and flipped them to 11-5 (although, to be fair, some of those 14 losses were due to tanking). Rodgers is a stupid good player. I don't think he misses Odell Beckham last week when he zoomed past the corner (could be wrong about that). I'd wager that in this NFC East, Rodgers at least would have them competitive into the final weeks in a way that Eli does not. And, look, AR is an historically great QB and no one is claiming Eli is as good, but I'm saying it's understandable to want a little more from Manning and to not just be content with "do you know how hard it is to find a franchise QB???" I think Luck and Rodgers have them at 6-5. Their mobility would keep drives alive. I think they Win the Dallas and SF games, maybe the 1st Dallas game. Radgers has had years with an oline as porous as Eli (or worse) and kept the Pack winning. I think Rodgers would do better than Luck. Brady's immobility probably doesn't help, so I doubt he gets anymore than one or maybe two wins. Eli is what he is. He needs an average or better oline to give him time to throw. We live with the poor throws as we live with the great - Manningham, OBJ etc.

How could you even possibly pretend to know this??? And what QB doesn't need an "average or better" OL?

and I think we should forego all the silly debate.



So in the spirit of he holiday I'll wish all of you ignorant mouth breathers a Happy Thanksgiving!

In comment 12003396 JoeCabbie said:

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how ordinary we made Brady and Rodgers look when they had no time to throw. The offense revolves around the oline and our is putrid. Criticizing anyone on the offense is misplaced until the line gets fixed.

Halleluiah!

and Brady has a nice release and accurate short game.Both would do far better with the present Giants but that is not saying anything remarkable

Please tell that to every shit TD we crank out and yet all of a sudden turns out to be a top receiving threat for this team only to be never heard of again when they leave for other quarterbacks. Tell that to Mario Mannigham, Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Plaxico Burress....the list goes on.

BBI is becoming a shit show.

argument.

Well no fucking shit. Those guys will go down as the top 1% of QBs ever to play.

So, if you argument is "We don't have a QB as good as them", then you are correct. Otherwise, you are just pissing and moaning, while sounding like a moron as well.

Happy Thanksgiving. Where's the Tylenol?

In comment 12003409 dep026 said:

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In comment 12003370 Dragon said: Quote: Is the QB almost all of us wanted on the field when the season started except for maybe a few nothing wrong with that maybe they felt we would suck. The issue is that he has started 11 games in this offense and we are 3-8 his stats while better this year in this offense are really not great. What more does he need to learn or do that's going to make this team better or change a wasted season. Is he the only reason we are 3-8 no but he is part of the problem as much as any starter on this team. We have a young QB on the roster which we have no idea about his ability to produce under the bright lights in the NFL. If now is not the time to find out I can't imagine when that time will come except the starter get's hurt which I'm sure most of us hope does not happen. It's a wasted season except we find out about many young players on this roster who have seen no real live games time. I'm a very strong believer if you are playing for PRIDE then please do so in games 1-11 not game numbers 12-16 when all pride is gone. You honestly believe Eli has been as bad as guys on the OL, Randle, and anyone on defense? Holy cow. Thats just absurd. I am not claiming Eli has been all world this year, but outside Beckham.... tell me ONE player on the Giants team who has been better than Eli.

I'm not dumping on Eli, but that's sorta like saying he's the tallest midget

In comment 12003555 AgentZero said:

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Please tell that to every shit TD we crank out and yet all of a sudden turns out to be a top receiving threat for this team only to be never heard of again when they leave for other quarterbacks. Tell that to Mario Mannigham, Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Plaxico Burress....the list goes on. BBI is becoming a shit show.

Why didn't Eli make Hakeem Nicks better in his final year with the Giants? You think Plaxico's decline is due to not playing with Eli Manning than getting shot and spending couple of years out of football? Steve Smith's injury didn't contribute to his decline? Same with Mario?

I am sure Eli makes players better, but your examples are horrible.

Some of you really need to actually watch other QB's full games and not just the highlights you see on ESPN.