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If you were Mr. Mara, what would you do?

A1022 : 12/1/2014 12:24 am
Posted this in another thread, but wanted to get BBI's input. Seems to me that the Giants have 3 options. Rebuild this team around Eli with the current regime in place(hopefully less Fewell and Quinn) and try to win now knowing Eli's window is likely 3-4 years. Option two is to start fresh with a new coach and/or GM and start to rebuild knowing that your franchise QB doesn't have a long shelf life. Option three is to cut ties with Coach, GM, and QB(which I don't like) and rebuild with a new regime and start fresh. Each scenario has it's benefits and pitfalls, including rebuilding mistakes and salary cap hell. So I ask BBI, what would you do?
Option 2  
Anakim : 12/1/2014 12:28 am : link
Cut ties with everyone and start around Eli
Fuck it.  
bceagle05 : 12/1/2014 12:35 am : link
I'm going down with Eli and Coughlin. Get rid of Fewell and get an offensive line. Let's see what this offense is capable of in year two with a decent OL, Beckham and Cruz.

The only way I'd sacrifice Coughlin is if Reese went with him. I'm so sick of that arrogant prick.
Option One  
GiantsBRFan : 12/1/2014 12:46 am : link
Fire Fewell/Quinn and build a good team around Eli.
Eli  
Dragon : 12/1/2014 12:52 am : link
Is a big decision in physical ability, future contract, OL it's getting worse, the Nassib & TC question. Eli is a factor in all those questions which for the most part are all unknowns.
If I was Mr. Mara  
Big Blue Fan 74 : 12/1/2014 12:53 am : link
I would tell Reese building the best OL in the NFL is his #1 priority.
New defensive coordinator  
TimsGiants : 12/1/2014 12:53 am : link
I would find a new defensive coordinator. Not solely based off of this season but on Perry's whole body of work. It's been pretty terrible period.

I would keep Coughlin. Fact is this team is not good enough to win. The fact that we manage to keep the games this season competitive and keep the locker room together is a testament to him.

I'm not sure about Reese. I partly want to give him one more year to fix it. All the injuries should account for something but at the same time the offensive line that he gave us is hard to get by. I don't think you fire him if you keep Coughlin though.

Nut shell..
Keep Coughlin
New defensive coordinator
Coughlin saves Reese
I'm not big on stats and the past  
Grandpa : 12/1/2014 12:54 am : link
I have more basic concerns. Among other issues - TC preaches ball security - nothing is more important. . So Donnell fumbles again today? Tiki learned high and tight and was fine afterwards. Where did that go? Fumbles should really only result from unexpected and /or huge hits. Putting the ball on the ground after it is poked out means the message isn't being understood or taught or something...
From a strictly business perspective  
A1022 : 12/1/2014 12:55 am : link
Their really isn't a wrong answer. Reasons can be made to keep the current staff and rebuild for a final push with this regime. The same can be said for blowing it all up and starting fresh. But then you have to factor in Eli is on contract for one year and may not fit into the next regime's plans. Then the last option may not be the best or most popular, but a whole new staff may want to draft a QB who fits their system and groom him in Eli's contract year. Or could simply trade him if he doesn't fit into their plan. Again it's still early but we may be looking at a top 5 draft pick.
If it's option one  
micky : 12/1/2014 12:56 am : link
then the staff needs to stay status quo (continuity). and TC given at very least a 5 yr extension.

It's either or now. Stay on course or complete overhaul, in which case, option two.
Mara made it clear as a bell what he wanted done last offseason.  
Reese's Pieces : 12/1/2014 12:59 am : link
But obviously the offensive side of the ball, we’ve got to improve there and we can’t go into next season with the same personnel. My biggest concern coming into the year was would our offensive line stay healthy, because I was concerned about the depth that we had there and ... we just never seemed to be able to protect Eli well enough or get a ground game going well enough. That to me is the number one personnel priority going into the offseason, is we need to improve the offensive line.

Did the front office get it done? Should Mara just say that he hopes they'll do better this time? We didn't use our first round pick or our big ticket free agent money on a lineman. Beckham is obviously an exciting rookie, and DRC strengthens the already pretty good secondary, but do we win with them if we don't have the blockers and pass rushers?

I'm having trouble even remembering the receivers the Giants won with in '86 and '90. Mark Ingram and Stephen Baker?

Blame the coaches. Then we only have to replace a couple of execs and not half of the players on the roster. Blame Perry Fewell. I don't care whether he's back or not next season, but in 2011 the man had Tuck, Umenyiora and Linval Joseph. Who has replaced them? Cheap, cast off free agents from other teams, like Jenkins and Patterson who combined for zero sacks. Unproven and underused high draft picks Hankins and Moore. And, of course, Markus Kuhn.

Cut ties with BC, it isn't working anymore  
Mason : 12/1/2014 1:05 am : link
I'm not buying that Reese, Ross and all these scouts can't get enough of BC. Cut the BS and realize you have turned into Jerrah and currently have an Oklahoma type of obsession on your hands. Cut Kiwi and Herzlich immediately to start the BC purge.

P.S. Stay away from the goddamn ACC altogether.
RE: Option One  
Anakim : 12/1/2014 1:06 am : link
In comment 12010248 GiantsBRFan said:
Quote:
Fire Fewell/Quinn and build a good team around Eli.


Another year of a revolving door of coordinators... and yet, we get the same results and one thing remains constant...
Can't cut Eli  
GiantSteps : 12/1/2014 1:09 am : link
He proved earlier this season that when things are actually working as they should, and guys are relatively healthy, he's still got enough in the tank to win. When the running game fails, and protection breaks down, there's not much he can do on his own.

There are too many other areas of need. 3-4 years of prospective quality playing time is enough to build the Giants back up with good drafting and FA. Make the offensive line the #1 priority and keep the known good commodities while you still have them. Worry first about the known deficiencies. Build the team back up to the point that when Eli hangs em up or go elsewhere, there's enough of a supporting cast that the new QB actually has something to work with. Besides, I certainly am still on the Eli bandwagon. I think it would be foolish to cut him loose.

TC, I don't know. It's really more a question of who would take over?

Reese-right now I'm so livid, I don't think I can call it either way. I just want some accountability here.

Eli  
Dragon : 12/1/2014 1:10 am : link
I know we all consider Eli a good QB but does he really have trade value not many positives when doing a skills level chart. Is Eli worth a 1st round pick or more due to contract and years left questions. Peyton in the end was just released due to the injury question but had many teams interested once the contract talks began. Eli no matter how much you like or dislike him is not in the same talent level of his brother by a long way. Just not sure what or if Eli trade value is due to many questions and team questions.
The reason that Perry Fewell and Tom Quinn coach this team is...  
PonderingObserver : 12/1/2014 1:10 am : link
Tom Coughlin
RE: RE: Option One  
GiantsBRFan : 12/1/2014 1:17 am : link
In comment 12010271 Anakim said:
Quote:
Another year of a revolving door of coordinators... and yet, we get the same results and one thing remains constant...


I really understand this sentiment but ok let's fire Tom Coughlin. Then what? We just dumped a two-time SB winner HC and we'll hire an assistant without HC experience like Todd Bowles or we go after an experienced HC like Jim Harbaugh, Nick Saban, David Cutcliffe, Kevin Sumlin, Les Miles or whoever?

In the first option we're shooting in the dark because the experiment can go very wrong and we just used the last years of Eli's career on this. In the second option the new HC might as well start the whole thing from scratch and dump Eli.

It's a tough situation firing an HC like Coughlin who still is respected by the players and the front office.
Giant Steps  
A1022 : 12/1/2014 1:22 am : link
Agree with everything you said. The problem is, if it takes 3-4 years of rebuilding this team then Eli's window becomes a HUGE concern. And Nassib will be gone then, plus he was picked by our current regime.
RE: RE: RE: Option One  
Anakim : 12/1/2014 1:23 am : link
In comment 12010281 GiantsBRFan said:
Quote:
In comment 12010271 Anakim said:


Quote:


Another year of a revolving door of coordinators... and yet, we get the same results and one thing remains constant...



I really understand this sentiment but ok let's fire Tom Coughlin. Then what? We just dumped a two-time SB winner HC and we'll hire an assistant without HC experience like Todd Bowles or we go after an experienced HC like Jim Harbaugh, Nick Saban, David Cutcliffe, Kevin Sumlin, Les Miles or whoever?

In the first option we're shooting in the dark because the experiment can go very wrong and we just used the last years of Eli's career on this. In the second option the new HC might as well start the whole thing from scratch and dump Eli.

It's a tough situation firing an HC like Coughlin who still is respected by the players and the front office.



Uh yeah?

And how do you know he's respected by the players? They're sure showing him a lot of respect by playing hard out there!
This Boston College stuff is overblown.  
bceagle05 : 12/1/2014 1:23 am : link
Chris Snee was a steal of a second round pick. Kiwanuka hasn't been quite the player we expected, but certainly wasn't bad for a guy picked at the very end of round one. Andre Williams was a Heisman finalist and the nation's leading rusher - he was hardly some "reach" in round four. Herzlich was an UDFA sought by several teams - had he regained some of his pre-cancer form he may have been a starting LB for several years.
It really isn't  
Anakim : 12/1/2014 1:26 am : link
This team clearly values BC and Syracuse players over other schools
FYI This isn't some made up stuff about BC and the ACC  
Mason : 12/1/2014 1:58 am : link
Quote:
According to Draftmetrics the Giants have drafted more players from the Atlantic Coast Conference than any other team -- 24 percent. The league average is 13.9 percent, meaning it's nearly twice as likely the Giants will take a player from the ACC than the rest of the teams in the NFL.
RE: FYI This isn't some made up stuff about BC and the ACC  
Anakim : 12/1/2014 2:13 am : link
In comment 12010292 Mason said:
Quote:


Quote:


According to Draftmetrics the Giants have drafted more players from the Atlantic Coast Conference than any other team -- 24 percent. The league average is 13.9 percent, meaning it's nearly twice as likely the Giants will take a player from the ACC than the rest of the teams in the NFL.



Which is fair. I mean the ACC is the second best conference in the country, IMO, but it's clear as day that this team prefers players from BC and Syracuse. There's a STRONG bias. STRONG. I mean they reached for Pugh. They REALLY reached for Bromley. They drafted Nassib when we didn't need a QB. They said Andre Williams was a second round value? WTF? The Kiwanuka and Snee picks were ok given their draft value (son-in-law shit aside).
The Syracuse picks are a little frightening.  
bceagle05 : 12/1/2014 2:25 am : link
Can't say I like any of the recent ones. The BC ones don't bother me that much. Fair enough though, they have been a little ACC-heavy I guess.
RE: original post  
bc4life : 12/1/2014 3:45 am : link
Not sure, but, I'd keep a few things in mind before doing anything. Don't forget the impact of the injuries - defense - Beason, Hill (dumb-assitis), Prince, Thurmond. And, don't forget the fish who got away - DT Kevin Williams. Take away those things, all out of the control of management and where would the defense be?

Offense: Wilson, Cruz, I will include Schwartz but he was not playing great before the injury. They made some reasonable bets re: improving the OL but all of them have failed - Jerry & Walton - the most notable.

A few things that have to be done: Coaching - QB and coaching are the two most difficult things to get right in this league. But, at a minimum, PF probably has to move on. The repeated mental errors alone would make me lose faith. the Complex schemes are great on paper, but they are not working.

Personnel - # 1 - OL Plan on Richburg starting next year, need to put two very good bookends next to him, one will come from the draft. Screw the versatility bullshit - get someone who plays guard very well. Versatility should be a plus for the reserves - get someone who shines at one position for your starters.

Defense - do your best to lock in Thurmond and Prince. The secondary could be very strong next year. JPP - run stuffing beast and pass rushing underachiever - and he seems to not be that bright and has not developed his overall game - is that effort, coaching, or the way he is being utilized? I don't know, but something is wrong. I appreciate all Kiwi has given them but they had better figure out what they have in Wynn because both starting DEs may very well be gone next year. I wouldn't place too much emphasis on Wynn's play today. You get better by playing in real games and he has to get a chance to relax out there. His eyes looked as big as pie plates out there today.

Draft/FA - BPA, but it all starts up front. RT and Guard. On defense - at least one DT and a DE.

Players who are spent - Kiwi, Patterson (?), Jenkins is a pass rushing rotational guy at this point, but he can still play. Players who will just never be that good - Paysinger, Herzlich,

Eli - If you think he can still play, which I think is clearly obvious that he can - you have to protect him and develop a running game. Again OL. If you think incorrectly that he cannot - you trade him and you having those conversations right now. He goes to a team like the Jets - they could be competitive immediately. They have cap room to bring in more weapons and have a very good defense. Personally, I'd keep him - tinker with the franchise QB - not a smart move.



and I don't remember  
bc4life : 12/1/2014 3:47 am : link
people thinking Pugh was that much of a reach last year during the season.

Bromley - we don't know what we have there yet. If he brings up his run stopping, he's not a reach
The Giants operate as a group so I don't see your options happening  
George from PA : 12/1/2014 5:11 am : link
If Eli is going which i doubt......we should sit Eli......and see what we have in Nassib.....no? Coaches and GMs can be replaced.......Franchise Qbs are not readily available. So Eli is staying.......but we might get more serious about grooming a true heir ......I believe no qb older than Eli has won a Super Bowl, yet.....that could change this year.....but it is something they should consider.

Coughlin's age is also a major consideration and I do believe his role will change...maybe a move upstairs to something more administrative or allowed to retire with dignity. Winning 2 Super Bowls allows him to choose ......ownership will not fire him but I do assume a change occurring.

Reese future is interesting and great banter.....but I doubt he is going anywhere.

Talent or lack of.....is the problem and he is the primary spokesman in improving roster......but I figure back to drawing board and business as usual....they can start their evaluation early......again.
Get more football minds and less family members in the draft room  
Giants2012 : 12/1/2014 5:20 am : link
Stop drafting the best athlete and draft the best football player.
If I am Mara  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/1/2014 7:58 am : link
I question my whole front office's effectiveness, including myself

Reese, he should be put on notice
Ross- should be gone
Scouts- each one should be looked at for effectiveness
BLESTO- is this the right group for us to be in?
Chris Mara- put him back in charge of pumping up footballs

Coaches- The Old man stays
Fewell- gone
entires Defensive staff gone
Quinn- gone
OL coach- gone

Players-
Eli stays
Offensive keepers
ODJ
Cruz
Pugh- he's a guard in the NFL, he just is..
Richburg
Beatty ( Ugh)
Jennings
williams


too bored to right anymore

Rebuildinbg Not An Option  
Jeffrey : 12/1/2014 8:04 am : link
The only question is when do they start and how quickly do they make the tough calls. For those who love Eli, the real issue is whether a rebuilding team can afford the luxury of having 20% of its cap tied up in an aging QB who is good, not great, and cannot single-handedly will the team to victory.

I know that everyone gets emotional in discussing the future of the QB and the coach, but this should not be an emotional decision. Eli is a piece of the answer. He needs the parts around him to fulfill his abilities. He does not have them. The rebuild the OL mantra and move on is amusing. It is not something that can be done overnight, as last offseason proves. When Reese finally gets it right, Eli could be 37 and just represent a new hole to fill.

Eli has much greater trade value in the minds of Giant fans than to the rest of the country. Who is going to give up a 1st round draft pick for him right now? The teams that might consider him are the ones with most of the pieces in place and strong offensive lines. Perhaps a Houston or St. Louis. Maybe Buffalo or Arizona. Who else is going to go with a proven, flawed 34 year old over the potential of a younger player coming into the league?
to write  
alligatorpie : 12/1/2014 8:05 am : link
you mean write...not right, right?

rite?
I think Jennings  
cjac : 12/1/2014 8:10 am : link
is worth keeping too.

And i like Williams but he needs to learn how to cutback and not just ram it up where the hole is suppose to be
Think McAdoo  
bc4life : 12/1/2014 8:16 am : link
will be retained regardless. There is enough evidence that the new system may work out well if given sufficient talent.
RE: to write  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/1/2014 8:18 am : link
In comment 12010408 alligatorpie said:
Quote:
you mean write...not right, right?

rite?


yup
I'd make it perfectly clear...  
silverfox : 12/1/2014 8:45 am : link
...that those lucky enough to still have a job next year have one year to get back to the playoffs. Anything less and the whole thing blows up.

Its time to take the gloves off.
Clean house.  
Section331 : 12/1/2014 9:08 am : link
This is a long-term rebuilding project, and even if you don't think TC is the problem, he's not the guy to oversee a young, rebuilding roster. And if you're moving on from your HC, do you really want Jerry Reese, firmly on the hot seat, selecting your next coach?

Clean house, hire a new GM and let him bring in his own personnel staff and coach.
Right now Eli is just an average QB  
Gman11 : 12/1/2014 9:15 am : link
He's certainly not worth his cap hit.

When they needed a TD against the sad sack Jaguars they had to settle for a FG. When was the last time he pulled out a win with a last minute drive? That magic left after the second Super Bowl win. I see a guy that is immobile and indecisive. Hell, you can get that from a rookie. I've read all the excuses, but Blake Bortles outplayed him yesterday after halftime. Tell me about all the stars he's surrounded with.
RE: Rebuildinbg Not An Option  
Reese's Pieces : 12/1/2014 9:26 am : link
In comment 12010406 Jeffrey said:
Quote:


I know that everyone gets emotional in discussing the future of the QB and the coach, but this should not be an emotional decision. Eli is a piece of the answer. He needs the parts around him to fulfill his abilities. He does not have them. The rebuild the OL mantra and move on is amusing. It is not something that can be done overnight, as last offseason proves. When Reese finally gets it right, Eli could be 37 and just represent a new hole to fill.



The offensive line can't get rebuilt overnight, but the Cowboys did a pretty good job of identifying their OL as the weak point on the team and fixing it in a couple of years. They were willing to put the assets into it.

This year they used the overall 16th pick on a guard, and that seems to have worked out very well for them. Beckham is an exciting receiver, but as we should know from Steve Smith, Nicks, Cruz and Manningham, receivers are a high injury risk.
I meet with Reese  
aquidneck : 12/1/2014 9:33 am : link
and ask him for his detailed and credible plan to get the team back to the playoffs/top of the division next year.

If he convinces me he has a plan that can work I follow that plan. 100% replacement of coaches (sorry coughlin), full staff retainment including Fewell (sorry fans), whatever his plan is.

If I'm not convinced I fire Jerry and hire a respected retired nfl gm type from outside the organization to help me conduct a gm search.

The new GM gets to fire Coughlin if he wants..



RE: I meet with Reese  
bigblueheadache : 12/1/2014 9:40 am : link
In comment 12010601 aquidneck said:
Quote:
and ask him for his detailed and credible plan to get the team back to the playoffs/top of the division next year.

If he convinces me he has a plan that can work I follow that plan. 100% replacement of coaches (sorry coughlin), full staff retainment including Fewell (sorry fans), whatever his plan is.

If I'm not convinced I fire Jerry and hire a respected retired nfl gm type from outside the organization to help me conduct a gm search.

The new GM gets to fire Coughlin if he wants..




Unfortunately, he won't meeting with you; he'll be meeting with Mara and he doesn't know any more about football than his old man did. We're screwed if Reese gets to smooth-talk Mara for more time.
Clean house starting with Reese, Ross, and most of the coaches.  
Red Dog : 12/1/2014 9:50 am : link
.
I'd do 3, but getting a new coach and GM is the important thing  
jeff57 : 12/1/2014 9:51 am : link
.
Count my money  
WideRight : 12/1/2014 11:11 am : link
I'd do it several times a day.
RE: I meet with Reese  
jcn56 : 12/1/2014 11:19 am : link
In comment 12010601 aquidneck said:
Quote:
and ask him for his detailed and credible plan to get the team back to the playoffs/top of the division next year.

If he convinces me he has a plan that can work I follow that plan. 100% replacement of coaches (sorry coughlin), full staff retainment including Fewell (sorry fans), whatever his plan is.

If I'm not convinced I fire Jerry and hire a respected retired nfl gm type from outside the organization to help me conduct a gm search.

The new GM gets to fire Coughlin if he wants..




This. I'd ask Reese to explain why we've had such a hard time drafting and developing anyone at the linebacker and offensive line positions, and why we seem to have completely deprioritized the LB spot.

I'd also ask my brother to excuse himself from offering his opinion during the analysis phase, since he's biased from working so closely with Reese and Ross.

And from watching Finding Giants - honestly, I'd add some heads to the scouting department. I don't know how we're sized compared to other orgs, but to have a handful of guys covering all these players seems counterproductive. The draft (and UDFA) are the best ways to build up the team's talent, and I'd certainly want the best scouts in the field and as many of them as possible to help the team find talent.
Next up ...  
Fpbflppt : 12/2/2014 11:45 am : link
If Perry Fewell doesn't already know that his defenses haven't cut the mustard (barely cut the cheese) ...

But who'll be the next DC?

And in fairness to Perry, he did lose all his starting cornerbacks and a couple of safeties to injury. Also a couple of respectable defensive linemen. He didn't have any quality linebackers in the first place, so when they started breaking, the replacements weren't any better.

The scouting/talent acquisition team ought to be able to figure out that ...

Brewer? Mosely? How bad do these two suck that they can't beat out Charlie Brown for a starting job? They've been around for years, keep the bench well-polished, butt (2 t's intentional)

Offensive linemen - they certainly are. The free agent signings were really fragile.

What's up with JPP: when he was young and dumb, he was amazingly effective. Now that he's had a couple of years of coaching (and a couple of injuries), he's not so very good? He also doesn't have Tuck to draw the double-team blocks.

Special teams: aren't they the guys who couldn't win a starting position? And if the starters aren't very good, what do you suppose the special teams are going to be?


Coach Coughlin can still coach. He's been coaching bedposts and doorknobs this season. They haven't yet figured out how to hang onto the ball, but at least their pants didn't fall down (remember Jason Sehorn?)
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