Is it like this for everyone else? After two really terrible seasons--and regardless of how much of it should be placed at his feet--TC may be gone after this season. I get it. Since the 1980s, seasons this bad are rare for the Giants. Two in a row, even more rare. The organization may well decide it's time to move on, and we can all root for a bunch of new guys.
Still, the Coughlin/Eli years have been so, so great for us fans. That 2007 season alone is as good as it'll ever get. I think of it as a golden era of Giants football, and I hate to let that go. I'm not even angry about the games any more. It just makes me sad.
Makes you wonder - did they have a cornucopia of young, fast, strong talent when Coughlin was there, too?
Completely different from the Parcells era, where the only bad season after the first one was the strike year in 1987, and even then the regulars went 6-6.
Coughlin's only good regular season was marred by that idiot Plax.
Not saying this is all Coughlin's fault. And I will always remember TC standing n the frozen tundra at Green Bay like a good commander. And the decision to start the regulars against the Patriots. Those were great moments where Coughlin showed tremendous leadership.
But overall I have no problem letting this regime go. Brighter days are aheAd.
Every year we watch the combine as he is sitting there on the 50 with his stop watch. Still want to tell me he isn't involved?
Now we are making him a GM? Are you high?
1) Overall talent on the offensive line. the only way you can fuck up an offense led by Eli Manning would be to put a complete shit show out their on the line. Mission Accomplished.
2) Inability to build a defense. The Giants need to change everything, literally everything, that goes into their process of putting a defensive squad on the field. It simply is not working.
Can we absolve TC of the blame. Of course not, he is the coach. But, from my living room I think the problems lie more with the talent acquisition than the coaching.
Reese seems good at picking some talent out. Is skilled at scouting perhaps. The guy does find talent in the first round. Which is not an automatic thing.
In terms of building an entire roster and managing it. Reese has not proven he can do either one. If you can not build a roster around Eli Manning I am certain there is someone out there who could.
Just seems wrong that Reese would remain when there is a high chance he is the main problem in the first place.
To me, if they make the change. Everyone should go.
The idea that TC is going to get canned, and Reese gets to remain, is what annoys me most of all.
But, I guess all good things come to an end.
Reese is on notice. He is not getting away with anything. If a new coach comes in and Giants still suck, Reese is gone and gone. Quickly.
Every year we watch the combine as he is sitting there on the 50 with his stop watch. Still want to tell me he isn't involved?
Now we are making him a GM? Are you high?
The EXACT SAME PEOPLE used to blather on about how much the talent improved from the Fassel era to Coughlin precisely because Coughlin is such an awesome evaluator of talent compared to Fassel, and how much influence he had on talent acquisition. For these people, everything good that's ever happened to the Giants since 2004 is entirely the work of Tom Coughlin, and everything bad is entirely the fault of someone else, be it shitty coordinators, Jerry Reese, John Mara, Chris Mara, Marc Ross, whoever.
All of the credit, none of the blame. Always, without exception.
Quote:
Although like you said it would never happen. One, because ownership would not do it. Two, I think Coughlin would not want that job.
The idea that TC is going to get canned, and Reese gets to remain, is what annoys me most of all.
But, I guess all good things come to an end.
Reese is on notice. He is not getting away with anything. If a new coach comes in and Giants still suck, Reese is gone and gone. Quickly.
Why give him the mulligans though? He has no proven track record. He was handed one the best QB's in the league, so he started off with an easier time than most GM's.
This is what he has done with it.
Quote:
In comment 12013626 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
Although like you said it would never happen. One, because ownership would not do it. Two, I think Coughlin would not want that job.
The idea that TC is going to get canned, and Reese gets to remain, is what annoys me most of all.
But, I guess all good things come to an end.
Reese is on notice. He is not getting away with anything. If a new coach comes in and Giants still suck, Reese is gone and gone. Quickly.
Why give him the mulligans though? He has no proven track record. He was handed one the best QB's in the league, so he started off with an easier time than most GM's.
This is what he has done with it.
Because GMs get mulligans. Every GM across the league gets to pick his own head coach once or twice, except Reese, who inherited TC.
And no proven track record except for two super bowls that everyone suddenly wants to gift 100% to Ernie Accorsi because they're dissatisfied customers.
Who was running college scouting for Accorsi when those teams were put together?
Never..age isn't a factor. He leaves when he says so.
/sarc
TC is an excellent coach, and I put more of the team's current state at Reese's feet, and his pockmarked personnel decisions. But, TC's tenure has been pockmarked by massively inconsistent football. Many fans look with a distorted memory mostly because of the runs.
We just lost to a 1-10 team. Is that Reese's fault as well?
I think most of us were/are looking for a fairy tale ending here (keep TC/Reese, can Fewell, bring in Spags), and that all sounded ok to me.......Before this past weekend.
It's just time. If not now, then he's never getting fired.
Every year we watch the combine as he is sitting there on the 50 with his stop watch. Still want to tell me he isn't involved?
Now we are making him a GM? Are you high?
Thank god someone else is saying this. You'd think TC is just huddling in his basement office in shackles at the mercy of Reese and Marc Ross, praying to St. Lombardi for someone to bring him some talent.
The NFL is a cruel, unforgiving world. Glory is fleeting even for the greats.
With that said everyone keeps saying besides 2007 and 2011 his teams are inconsistent and what not. That may be true, but it seems like you are brushing aside how difficult it is to do what they did in 2007 and in 2011. The road wins in 2007, beating arguably the best offense and possible team in NFL history, holding that offense to 14 points, ending the 18-0 streak. Beating the "greatest coach" in the NFL history not once, but twice in the Super bowl. Taking a 9-7 team and beating a 15-1 Green Bay team in Green bay. These types of things don't happen without great coaching and rather than saying besides, it should be looked magnified greatness.
2008 they were the number 1 seed in the NFC. They were in the playoffs. 2010 was 10 win team, while the Eagles game was awful, it wasn't a bad team. In many ways it might have been a better team than the one that won the super bowl the following year.
Well are we talking about the overall team or individual games of seasons? The Super Bowl Champion 2011 Giants got blown out by the Saints and loss to an awful redskins team lead by Rex Grossman twice. I'm not sure I understand. If you want to point out the negative, point out the positive too.
Again, a lot of it was out of TC's control, but that often happens with coaches.
Bingo. Went for broke in 2012 and now they are rebuilding it happens. Doesn't mean everyone needs to get fired just means we don't have peyton or Brady. Giants don't walk into a season guaranteed 11 wins.
2011 was an all time great season by a QB. That's what elevated that team. No on, outside of Giants fans, will every give Eli the credit for what he did that season. I my 30 years of watching football, I can't think of a better season.
2008 as it relates to coaching ability is an interesting conversation.
That team ceased to really function without Burress. They struggled mightily to do anything. After Plaxico got hurt they just shuffled along until the Eagles put them out of their misery.
Quote:
If Burress didn't shoot himself, who knows how it would have ended up.
2008 as it relates to coaching ability is an interesting conversation.
That team ceased to really function without Burress. They struggled mightily to do anything. After Plaxico got hurt they just shuffled along until the Eagles put them out of their misery.
The did beat a really Panthers team to clinch the number 1 seed late in the season without Plax. Without Plax on the field, defenses played the Giants differently. You can't just find another 6-6 match up nightmare WR anywhere. Hard to adjust to that so late in the season.
Deserved the league MVP.
We actually have some good parts moving forward. What we need are some impact players in the trenches. At least one if not two high caliber OLinemen. Hopefully Cruz comes back strong
All the losses this season might help us in the draft. This was not a high caliber team. When you see the blocking and breakdowns and how little time Eli has had its easy to see the poor record.
I will say this about TC: He doesnt coach bad teams very well, but does coach good ones very well.
He's not going to be a ra-ra guy to squeeze out wins from a team that isnt that talented, but when he's got the talent he's shown he can outcoach the best in the business.
The question isnt really if its time for TC to go, the question is who replaces him? More importantly does Reese stay? Reese has been awful. He's failed at the tops of the drafts and at the bottom as well
You can argue this and that but what is the expectation with this oline? I would rather be 3-13 than 8-8. I havent even looked at the draft but hopefully we can get a star player on the OL. Look at what Dallas got last year and Martin's impact. My god could the Giants use a player like that
2007: Aaron Ross
2008: Kenny Phillips
2009: Hakeem Nicks
2010: Jason Pierre-Paul
2011: Prince Amukamara
2012: David Wilson
2013: Justin Pugh
2014: Odell Beckham Jr.
Out of that list, the only guy they got nothing from was Wilson, and his career was destroyed by his injury. Same thing with Nicks and Phillips. Both were Pro Bowl caliber players when they were healthy. Ross was nothing special but he was a decent starter who contributed to championships. Amukamara, same thing. JPP has disappointed lately, but he was arguably the best defender in football in 2011. Jury's out on Pugh, too early to write him off. And OBJ looks like a superstar.
So.......where are the failures? If you want to rip Reese's drafts, fine, but stick to the truth.
One was TC's alma matter and he was head coach at the other school. Total coincidences, I'm certain. Reese must just love players from those schools.
Here's a list of our players from those schools off the top of my head:
Bromley
Pugh
Nassib
Kiwanuka
Herzlizch (UDFA)
Andre Williams
Chris Snee
Quote:
I love TC, but some people here act like the fucking guy is an innocent bystander in this mess. Give me a break.
Every year we watch the combine as he is sitting there on the 50 with his stop watch. Still want to tell me he isn't involved?
Now we are making him a GM? Are you high?
The EXACT SAME PEOPLE used to blather on about how much the talent improved from the Fassel era to Coughlin precisely because Coughlin is such an awesome evaluator of talent compared to Fassel, and how much influence he had on talent acquisition. For these people, everything good that's ever happened to the Giants since 2004 is entirely the work of Tom Coughlin, and everything bad is entirely the fault of someone else, be it shitty coordinators, Jerry Reese, John Mara, Chris Mara, Marc Ross, whoever.
All of the credit, none of the blame. Always, without exception.
Your 100% correct, He has his hands on everything from the Draft to conrolling his asst coaches. What many in here ffail to see, his ego has gottemn sop big, he knows better than everyone else. If Mara didn't intervense Gilbright would still be OC. After this season im more convinced than ever her should have been fired last year.
PS - Bring back Spags
- BBI
Excellent post
Home playoff losses both times - once by shutout! Even I know you have to score to win in the playoffs and Coughlin didn't?!
TC was truly a big loser who was lucky to have kept the job longer than his first season. He got lucky twice to win bowls and I hope one of our division rivals hire him since he is so incompetent.
- BBI
I don't disagree, most probably wouldn't... however you have to ask yourself (as I have MANY times)... Would you rather be the Patriots who are regular season kings (Certainly not the best example since they have one SB win since 2004)? Or the Giants who are generally mediocre regular season but have 2 SB wins? It's a tough question to answer. And actually, many fans I know and others I don't who post on BBI stated that they would take the 2 SB wins over being competitive every year but not winning anything... i.e. Philadelphia. Sometimes I'm not sure myself what I would answer, depends on the day lol... but in the grand scheme of things, those SB wins were pretty damn awesome.
The golden age is over, and its back to trying to find someone who can take us to the top. We won't have the luxury of believing in the people already in place.
Quote:
03 and 04 were poor seasons. And take away 07 and 2011and a lot of years ended in disappointment under TC from the panther wild card game to the eagle divisional game. To 2009 5-0 and don't make the playoffs to 2010 the eagle collapse and finish 10-6 and don't make the playoffs to 2012-14. Sorry their has been more bad then good under TC and everyone ignores it because of the two runs we went on in 07 and 11. If we remember the good we must remember the bad . Sorry that's how I feel, 2004 2006 2009 2010 2012 2013 2014 have been god awful seasons loaded with terrible losses
I don't disagree, most probably wouldn't... however you have to ask yourself (as I have MANY times)... Would you rather be the Patriots who
are regular season kings (Certainly not the best example since they have one SB win since 2004)? Or the Giants who are generally mediocre regular season but have 2 SB wins? It's a tough question to answer. And actually, many fans I know and others I don't who post on BBI stated that they would take the 2 SB wins over being competitive every year but not winning anything... i.e. Philadelphia. Sometimes I'm not sure myself what I would answer, depends on the day lol... but in the grand scheme of things, those SB wins were pretty damn awesome.
Thats a fair comment but why is it the Pats continue to be this dominat team year in year out for the last 12 seasons... coaching!!!! If Bill Belichick
was our coach do you think our teams collapse and get embarrassed as much as coughlins teams have. I donut it.