You can put me in the camp of being a big Coughlin fan, but one who thinks that it is time to move on simply because you don't rebuild with 68 year old coaches. However, I can't help but think the Giants already have their future plan in place. Here is my theory.
Simply put, it's about the Ben MacAdoo hire. After last year, the organization knew Coughlin wasn't going to be coaching much longer. He was 67, and its not like turning 68 has changed the calculation. Old is old and time is time. The Giants also knew the team needed major reworking, and likely knew it would be at least a 2 year process, which is why they preserved the ability to have cap room this coming offseason. Either way, 2013 or 2014, the Giants new they needed a post-Coughlin course of action based on the following:
1. A younger coach for longer term stability
2. One who had a solid relationship with Eli, who as Mara said is the Giants past, present, and future
3. Comfortable with how the Giants do business
4. Someone who had the blessing of Coughlin
Based on these assumptions (yes I admit assumptions) it couldn't be Gilbride. Gilbride was already too old, he had just presided over Eli's worst season in 9 years (his fault or not) and his offense was under intense fire. It wasn't going to be Fewell for obvious reasons, which we see now.
The organization looked at Coulghin's coaching tree and sadly found bare branches. Usher in Ben MacAdoo. A young, well regarded QB coach who seemed ready for the next step after working hand in hand with the most prolific passer in the NFL not named Manning or Brees. According to reports, he was a Coulghin hire and therefore has Coulghin's blessing and confidence. He has been a big part of Eli's rebound, and despite the terrible (TERRIBLE) OL play, the Giant's offense has shown flashes it can be a top offense in this league.
The problem...he's not ready yet. Do I think the Giants hired MacAdoo with the intent for him to replace Coulghin? Yes I do, but in 2016 or 2017 at the latest. I think the master plan was to have the Giants do no worse than last year and hopefully slightly better, with a return to the playoffs in 2015. This would allow Coughlin to retire gracefully and hand the reins to his apprentice who would have earned the favor of the franchise QB, and the blessing of Giants fans for resurrecting the offense and QB. Good plan, but like all plans, it did not survive first contact with the enemy (injuries in 2014).
With this theory in mind. I would not be surprised at all to see Mara keep Coughlin for another year, allow the Giants to get healthy and add talent on the OL and see if the plan will ultimately play out. I'm sure holes can be poked in this, but I think the organization had a plan this past offseason and don't see a need to change the head coach. I think they will chalk 2014 up to inept OL play, and injuries that crippled the defense first and now have destroyed what was left of the OL.
Call it a gut feeling, but I think this is the plan.
that made me laugh
Hilarious!
It's Christmas, a time for miracles.
Firing Coughlin means we lose McAdoo in all likelihood and I don't think the front office wants that.
We'll see.
I thought the same thing, but when I think of those comments about him being sort of a mini-Coughlin, I start to think it was one of the big reasons he was hired.
But if that happens,
BBI
WILL
MELTDOWN.
Firing Coughlin means we lose McAdoo in all likelihood and I don't think the front office wants that.
We'll see.
Glad it's not just me, cause part of me thinks I'm nuts.
I think the Giants believe they can address the major problem areas in FA and draft an impact player. If the OL is improved in 2015 no reason this team can't compete for the NFC East title. The defense is going to take a few years in my opinion, but the offense is an OL away. Really a LG away.
But if that happens,
BBI
WILL
MELTDOWN.
I think BBI would break the internet
It was KG last year, it will be Perry this year.
I have a feeling they think they can transition these crappy few years back into a good team without blowing everything up entirely at once.
I was starting to lean towards Coughlin being 100% gone but now I'm not so sure and it's because of McAdoo.
I think you're right and suspect TC will be back.
Fix the OL, protect Eli and watch the offense succeed.
Find a pass rush and another LB and watch the defense not blow leads!
I am okay with it because it would be ridiculous to judge McAdoo based on this season, given both the injury situation and the lack of NFL-caliber offensive line talent. In fact, his system has shown plenty of promise in those instances where the OL didn't collapse.
If this is true then I'm glad my team has an actual succession plan in place rather than just firing people for the sake of shakeup and change.
Allie Sherman - HC in CFL before Giants*
Alex Webster - no HC experience when hired*
Bill Arnsparger - no HC experience when hired
John McVay - HC in HS and college before Giants*
Ray Perkins - no HC experience when hired
Bill Parcells - 1 yr HC at Air Force prior to Giants*
R** H*****y - no prior HC experience*
Dan Reeves - longtime Broncos HC
Jim Fassel - no HC experience prior to Giants*
Tom Coughlin - pro and college HC prior to Giants*
* Giants ties previous to being hired as HC
If the Mara/Tisch/Reese regime follows past trends, previous experience with the Giants is a bigger factor than previous HC experience. I suspect that will be less true for the younger Mr. Mara.
Also note that the only HCs the Giants have hired from the defensive side in the last 50 years were Arnsparger and Parcells, and Parcells was sort of an accident. I also suspect that the younger Mr. Mara won't have the same preference for offense, though the trend around the league is that more successful heac coaches are coming from offense than defense.
If Coughlin is fired, my guess is Reese stays and Mara and Reese collectively decide on a new head coach, letting the new head coach select his assistants.
How do you run any sort of offense when the QB gets absolutely annihilated every single time he drops back to pass?
The problems:
1) "Glad it's not just me, cause part of me thinks I'm nuts.
I think the Giants believe they can address the major problem areas in FA and draft an impact player. If the OL is improved in 2015 no reason this team can't compete for the NFC East title. The defense is going to take a few years in my opinion, but the offense is an OL away. Really a LG away."
We've been saying this toward the end of each of the past three seasons, and the result is 3 - 9 heading toward 3 - 13. As JonC suggests, correctly imo, this would again demonstrate that this FO has zero ability to self-scout and analyze the problems, because the same ol' shit keeps getting worse with this cast of characters.
2) It's difficult to credit the FO with any effective long-range plan: re-upping TC year by year, force a coordinator change here, force a coordinator change there, and the dead wood stays put
3) I don't think it's my imagination that in most of TC's recent post-game pressers he has thrown not-so-veiled jabs at the offensive play calling, whether down and distance, run vs. pass or v.v. I don't get the feeling that he's so solidly in BMc's corner, but maybe that is just a reflection of a frustrated coach under fire.
I like McAdoo and you see some of his creativity, notwithstanding the abysmal OL; I think what your assessment has going for it most of all is that a coaching change probably can't be effected while leaving McAdoo in place. The play I like best on Sunday was, after they had run OBJ on an end around with the pitch from Eli, a series or two later, the little fake into the line, the fake pitch to OBJ again running from his spot wide or slot right, but then throwing a short screen in the middle, behind LOS.
I think the problems are more on Reese's watch, and leaving this FO team in place with TC would be hard to take, because they've shown zero ability to fix the problems. No playoffs in six of seven years?
How do you run any sort of offense when the QB gets absolutely annihilated every single time he drops back to pass?
1. Coughlin will stay
2 Fewell will get fired as a condition of Coughlin staying
3. If offensive progresses in 2015 and we still blow it because of the defense or whatever other reasons, Coughlin is fired and Macadoo takes over.
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...with an OL this bad.
How do you run any sort of offense when the QB gets absolutely annihilated every single time he drops back to pass?
The whole point of bringing in McAdoo was so that the offense would be effective with a porous offensive line. If the offensive line were any good, Gilbride would still be the offensive coordinator.
I don't think the "point" of bringing in any OC is to succeed with a shitty OL. No team plans to have a shitty OL.
They certainly wanted to introduce some new concepts and felt what we were doing ran stale but there's no possible way of fielding a successful offense with an OL this bad and a QB with no mobility. I think that's pretty obvious.
Who is responsible for this talent mess?
Why is it a team like the Stillerz can stay competitive while the Giants can't?
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In comment 12014872 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
...with an OL this bad.
How do you run any sort of offense when the QB gets absolutely annihilated every single time he drops back to pass?
The whole point of bringing in McAdoo was so that the offense would be effective with a porous offensive line. If the offensive line were any good, Gilbride would still be the offensive coordinator.
I don't think the "point" of bringing in any OC is to succeed with a shitty OL. No team plans to have a shitty OL.
They certainly wanted to introduce some new concepts and felt what we were doing ran stale but there's no possible way of fielding a successful offense with an OL this bad and a QB with no mobility. I think that's pretty obvious.
I certainly don't think that any decisions could possibly be made based on anything since the game in Dallas. By the end of that game it was clear the season was over, and it was clear what this team is.
this gave me a chuckle, thanks.
I think a lot of you are overstating how the Giants FO thinks of McAdoo. We have no idea if the FO had any input into McAdoo's hiring, and if he was solely TC's guy, they're both gone.
I also don't recall Mara flat out claiming there would be "wholesale changes" out in public if we had another bad year.
The changes will be that Fewell gets fired and hopefully Quinn does as well.
Mara's statement last year seemed to be pointed directly at the coaching staff. He went so far as to say Reese was safe and that he trusts him, but never said as much about the coaching staff. I thought that was both unfair and unusual at the time, because Reese didn't need the strong vote of confidence (even if people are out in the streets protesting, GMs don't get canned as often as coaches) and because I didn't think the problem was anywhere near one sided either.
Instead - we canned half the coaching staff (Pope, Ingram, Gilbride "retired") and put the rest on watch. I don't think Mara expected the step backwards on defense, where we were clearly playing over our heads thanks to a softer schedule in the second half of last season.
I would agree with Emil that they started to make a move towards the future last year (and why Pope and Ingram were summarily dismissed), but it seems like the Giants are trying to approach a coaching change like getting into a pool, slowly getting wet to avoid shock. I don't think that's going to work.
I believe that Tom Coughlin wanted McAdoo.
I believe that Tom Coughlin wanted McAdoo.
Another thing to consider is that TC is more than just the coach here. I don't think he's disconnected in the same way that Fassel was. It's entirely possible that the FO (Reese and ultimately, Mara) had to be onboard with the selection, gave TC a list, and let TC make the final decision. That way, both effectively picked him.
WOW, really?? Thats surprising. How do you feel about the Spags part? I'm actually fine with Coughlin returning, but Spags I'm on the fence about. Hopefully they give him the horses along the DL.
Why not? If the guy has no intention to retire very soon and is in great physical shape, why would one toss all those precious year of NFL experience out the window. It makes no sense.
I'm OK with moving on from Coughlin but to cite his age and determine he can't help rebuild a team is patently age discrimination.
disappointed if true (and you are usually right). instead of looking to the future, they look to the past and go with something that worked 6-7 years ago thinking that the results will be the same. maybe the defense shows different looks and takes a more high risk/high reward approach, but the fundamental rot that has set in on this team will not go away. no outside the box thinking.