NEW YORK (AP) — Speedy outfielder Eric Young Jr. is becoming a free agent after the New York Mets declined to offer him a contract for next season.
The team announced the move before Tuesday night's deadline.
Young, who had been eligible for arbitration, batted .229 with 30 stolen bases in 100 games this year, when his salary was $1.85 million.
He led the National League with 46 steals in 2013 and opened this season as New York's primary leadoff hitter but managed only a .299 on-base percentage and lost playing time in a crowded outfield. The switch-hitter finished with a homer and 17 RBIs in 316 plate appearances, scoring 48 runs.
The 29-year-old Young became expendable when the Mets signed free-agent outfielder Michael Cuddyer to a $21 million, two-year contract last month.
New York tendered contracts to its six other players who are eligible for arbitration: first baseman Lucas Duda, second baseman Daniel Murphy, shortstop Ruben Tejada and pitchers Dillon Gee, Jenrry Mejia and Bobby Parnell.
1. Noah Syndergaard (RHP) 22 years old (AAA/MLB) 88% of 34 votes
2. Dilson Herrera (2B) 21 years old (AAA/MLB) 56% of 39 votes
3. Brandon Nimmo (CF) 22 years old (AAA) 33% of 43 votes (Run-off vs. Matz 55% of 40 votes)
4. Steven Matz (LHP) 24 years old (AAA) 69% of 48 votes
5. Michael Conforto (LF) 22 years old (A+) 49% of 43 votes
6. Kevin Plawecki (C) 24 years old (AAA) 59% of 34 votes
7. Rafael Montero (RHP) 24 years old (AAA/MLB) 65% of 37 votes
8. Marcos Molina (RHP) 20 years old (A) 43% of 40 votes (Run-off with Rosario 55% of 40 votes)
9. Amed Rosario (SS) 19 years old (A) 75% of 40 votes
10. Jhoan Urena (3b) 20 years old (A) 42% of 38 votes
11. Gavin Cecchini (SS) 21 years old (A) 57% of 37 votes
12. Dominic Smith (1b) 20 years old (A) 75% of 28 votes
13. Matt Reynolds (SS/2b) 24 years old (AAA) 52% of 31 votes
14. Cory Mazzoni (RP/SP) 25 years old (AAA) 46% of 28 votes
15. Matthew Chou Bowman (SP/RP) 24 years old AAA 42% of 38 votes
16. Cesar Puello (23) AAA (OF) 24% of 33 votes, runoff with Fulmer 52% of 31 votes
17. Buca di Beppo (Becerra) 28% of 29 votes, runoff vs. Maz 57%
18. LJ Mazzilli (24) 28% of 32 votes, runoff with Meisner 52% of 31 votes
19. Casey Meisner (20) (A) 57% of 30 votes
20. Milton Ramos (19) (A) 21% of 28 votes, run-off with Ynoa 52% of 23 votes
21. Gabriel Ynoa (22) (AA) 64% of 22 votes
22. Champ Stuart (22) (A+) 36% of 25 votes
23. Michael Fulmer (22) (AA) 41% of 22 votes
24. Akeel Morris (22) (A+) 31% of 26 votes
25. Logan Verrett (25) (AAA) 27% of 22 votes, 47% of runoff with Whalen/Mateo
26. Jack Leathersich (25) (AAA) 24% of 17 votes, 57% of runoff with Whalen
27. Tyler Pill (24) (AAA) 40% of 20 votes
28. Rob Whalen (21) 48% of 21 votes
29. Dario Alvarez (26) 33% of 24 vores
30. Luis Mateo (26) 27% of 26 votes, 77% of runoff with Diaz
31. Robert Gsellman 30% of 23 votes
32. Miller Diaz 25% of 24 votes, runoff with Brosher/Sanchez 37%
33. Blake Taylor 22% of 18 votes, runoff with Brosher/Sanchez 38%
34. Ali Sanchez (C) 18 35% of 23 votes, runoff vs. Brosher 75%
35. Logan Taylor (RHP) 16% of 19 votes, runoff with Brosher/Boyd 44%
36. Jayce Boyd (1b) 35% of 17 votes
if the Mets were the Yankees, I'd say 100% sign Miller, he without a doubt improves the pen.
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
if the Mets were the Yankees, I'd say 100% sign Miller, he without a doubt improves the pen.
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
Yeah you explained it better than I did. That's basically what I meant. I've been in and out of meeting writing on my phone.
if the Mets were the Yankees, I'd say 100% sign Miller, he without a doubt improves the pen.
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
PJ,
To be clear we were debating ability wise. I made clear the argument against spending money like that on a reliever is very debatable. Miller being better than anyone we have really isn't. Not to mention in all honesty the list of guys who weren't "able to close" is really a lot shorter than people want to admit. People cite Dotel and Benitez (ridiculous) but either one even as closer would make the Mets a better team for example.
So what gives? The Reds aren’t going to save any money by nontendering Partch, as the player they replace him with can’t make less than the MLB minimum salary. In the case of the Yankees, neither Heathcott nor Campos was expected to be collecting a big league salary next year. The same could be said of Sitton or Rivero.
After checking with a few front office officials, the answer is that teams have figured out a nice quirk of the nontender deadline. It’s one time that teams can clear a player off the 40-man roster without having to designate the player for assignment. Players nontendered do not hit the waiver wire, they become free agents immediately.
So the nontender deadline is a way to drop a prospect off the 40-man roster with a better chance of retaining him on a minor league contract than it would if you had to expose him on waivers for everyone to claim. The now-free agent can opt to sign with someone else, but that’s often not as appealing as returning to the organization one already knows. Go to another organization and you’re often just another guy. Stick with your existing organization and you have a few coaches, a signing scout or a roving instructor who is sticking up for you in organization meetings.
We don’t know for sure that Heathcott or Campos will re-sign with the Yankees, and Partch could try to make another team’s bullpen. But it’s a slight advantage in a business where teams are looking for any advantage.
the only counter is Miller basically had a career year at 29.
the rest of his career (other than maybe one year) has been injury filled and short of his potential.
So, is this the Miller you get going forward or is it the injury riddled/under performer.
He was great last year, but a gamble IMO.
I do understand in a lot of cases the "light bulb" comes on a little later for relievers and maybe now he's healthy, but that same premise (late blooming stud reliever) can be applied to Familia or Edgin (who was fantastic last year vs righties and lefties) or Black, etc.
Like I said, if money was no issue I'd sign him, but I wouldn't consider him a sure thing to duplicate last year.
RE: ZG - I'm not picking this up for DMM, bc he's already 100% right Â
but I think one thing you consistently do is mistake being 'average' or 'above average' at something for it not being a need. To win you need be the best at something. Sometimes you need to be the best at multiple things. The goal isn't to be just good enough at something that it's not a dire need. Any team trying to win needs to aim to be the best at as many things as possible.
Adding Miller to an already good pen would give it that potential to be one of the best in the game. Yes he's somewhat of a one hit wonder, but how is that any different than crediting the Mets players who "broke out" last year as reliable? "Going into last year" Vic Black got demoted, Familia couldn't find the strike zone, Mejia was a starter who couldn't get through the 3rd time seeing an order - and of course it goes without saying none of them have even sniffed a meaningful playoff inning.
Re: Lowrie, he's not perfect but he's also 1 year removed from a better season than Murphy has ever put up, while being a better defender at a harder position. Trading for someone better is preferred, but if that's not possible he would certainly make this team better.
Eric the difference is I accept that we just went through a big rebuild and spent close to 4 years trading for prospects and drafting to get to this point. You are saying that I'm taking average to good performances and accepting mediocrity and I would agree that would not be an acceptable form of business practice if we want to improve. The difference is most of the players you are referring to are premium high impact prospects that most of which are experiencing success in their first full seasons. In those cases it is absolutely acceptable to accept their performances with an eye towards the future and not look for upgrades at this time. I'm referring to TDA, Flores, Duda, Herrera, Lagares, Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Black, Familia, Mejia, Edgin. If we aren't going to be happy off of already good performances and give these kids a chance to grow further, what was the whole thing about??
Dan, its a losing battle my friend. For all the wrong reasons.
Dude. You couldn't lick Dan's shoes.
Yeah, im okay with DMM knowing more than me in regard to baseball. Its your firm grasp on ignorance that amuses me. And, as usual, you provide great evidence of that. Go ahead and flame away.
if the Mets were the Yankees, I'd say 100% sign Miller, he without a doubt improves the pen.
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
PJ,
To be clear we were debating ability wise. I made clear the argument against spending money like that on a reliever is very debatable. Miller being better than anyone we have really isn't. Not to mention in all honesty the list of guys who weren't "able to close" is really a lot shorter than people want to admit. People cite Dotel and Benitez (ridiculous) but either one even as closer would make the Mets a better team for example.
Well over it but go back and read my original post. I clearly said "who's Paying". My argument always included the money aspect.
RE: RE: ZG - I'm not picking this up for DMM, bc he's already 100% right Â
but I think one thing you consistently do is mistake being 'average' or 'above average' at something for it not being a need. To win you need be the best at something. Sometimes you need to be the best at multiple things. The goal isn't to be just good enough at something that it's not a dire need. Any team trying to win needs to aim to be the best at as many things as possible.
Adding Miller to an already good pen would give it that potential to be one of the best in the game. Yes he's somewhat of a one hit wonder, but how is that any different than crediting the Mets players who "broke out" last year as reliable? "Going into last year" Vic Black got demoted, Familia couldn't find the strike zone, Mejia was a starter who couldn't get through the 3rd time seeing an order - and of course it goes without saying none of them have even sniffed a meaningful playoff inning.
Re: Lowrie, he's not perfect but he's also 1 year removed from a better season than Murphy has ever put up, while being a better defender at a harder position. Trading for someone better is preferred, but if that's not possible he would certainly make this team better.
Eric the difference is I accept that we just went through a big rebuild and spent close to 4 years trading for prospects and drafting to get to this point. You are saying that I'm taking average to good performances and accepting mediocrity and I would agree that would not be an acceptable form of business practice if we want to improve. The difference is most of the players you are referring to are premium high impact prospects that most of which are experiencing success in their first full seasons. In those cases it is absolutely acceptable to accept their performances with an eye towards the future and not look for upgrades at this time. I'm referring to TDA, Flores, Duda, Herrera, Lagares, Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Black, Familia, Mejia, Edgin. If we aren't going to be happy off of already good performances and give these kids a chance to grow further, what was the whole thing about??
We can be happy with good signs and already good performances with a chance to grow, but they are what their record is. None of those performances have produced a record over .500. Some prospects will continue to grow, others will regress. Anointing any before they really produced and established themselves over several years will at best result in the Wright/Reyes vs. Jeter/Arod argument from 2005. How did that chest thumping work out for the Mets? And also only a handful of the guys you mentioned qualify as "premium high impact prospects", if you're going by what their expectations were based on their talent/pedigrees. Very few if any of those guys were looked at as can't miss/perennial all stars (like Bryce Harper for example).
No. But TDA was the highest rated catcher in baseball. Most of all the players I mentioned were nationally recognized. Some still haven't arrived like Syndergaard. The window for these guys to hit the show to me only started last year and will last for another year or two when Nimmo and Conforto take over for Granderson and Cuddyer. And unlike most prospects the players I mentioned all experienced success immediately. It's not like I'm saying we have to carry somebody until they get it together. They mostly have already done it. They just need to keep doing it.
But you can never have too many relievers ( apologies to Ernie A)
However, I would Be fine with Mejia as the closer. Parnell waiting n the wings if Jenry falters.
The problem with signing a closer is that it is not going to make either Mejia or Parnell very happy. I'd rather invest in a top flight LOOGY. Though the Mets missed the boat a little on that one.
But you can never have too many relievers ( apologies to Ernie A)
However, I would Be fine with Mejia as the closer. Parnell waiting n the wings if Jenry falters.
The problem with signing a closer is that it is not going to make either Mejia or Parnell very happy. I'd rather invest in a top flight LOOGY. Though the Mets missed the boat a little on that one.
With your scenario won't 1 of them be unhappy either way? Especially if it's Parnell who closes upon his return since it means Mejia goes into the year the closer and is bumped.
to be ready for opening day. Sandy said he should be ready around then or shortly thereafter but admits he's completely guessing.
If Parnell is ready day one Im betting he is named the closer. If he's not ready and Mejia is the closer I doubt Parnell is just anointed the closer role after the fact. He'll likely have to earn it back. Just what I think.
to be ready for opening day. Sandy said he should be ready around then or shortly thereafter but admits he's completely guessing.
If Parnell is ready day one Im betting he is named the closer. If he's not ready and Mejia is the closer I doubt Parnell is just anointed the closer role after the fact. He'll likely have to earn it back. Just what I think.
Sandy actually said the opposite of him being ready opening day.
“Right now I think we’re projecting sometime after the season starts,” Alderson said about Parnell pitching in the majors. “But that’s just an educated guess right now.”
to be ready for opening day. Sandy said he should be ready around then or shortly thereafter but admits he's completely guessing.
If Parnell is ready day one Im betting he is named the closer. If he's not ready and Mejia is the closer I doubt Parnell is just anointed the closer role after the fact. He'll likely have to earn it back. Just what I think.
Sandy actually said the opposite of him being ready opening day.
“Right now I think we’re projecting sometime after the season starts,” Alderson said about Parnell pitching in the majors. “But that’s just an educated guess right now.”
No I just said Sandy said he might not be ready opening day but shortly thereafter as a guess. I was referring to what Parnell himself said that he was shooting for opening day. Tommy John is basically a year and sometimes even shorter for relievers. Wouldn't be shocked at all if Parnell was ready or not. Neither would surprise me.
The Mets bullpen had three other teams in the NL with a lower ERA. They were fourth. So I apologize for being off by one. Not starting anything and I fully realize that's not a great stat just saying where I got that from. I fully expect them to be much better in 2015.
Ok, if I'm right you don't post on BBI for a month, if I'm wrong I'll do the same? That's how sure I am. Opening day would be exactly 12 months and the Mets have openly been more cautious with TJ rehab after the Braves 2 time duo went down in successive days. Shut down Mateo, slowed down Harvey and tried to slow down Hefner which didn't work. 0.00% chance Bobby Parnell is available opening day. Bet? Let's do this.
Ok, if I'm right you don't post on BBI for a month, if I'm wrong I'll do the same? That's how sure I am. Opening day would be exactly 12 months and the Mets have openly been more cautious with TJ rehab after the Braves 2 time duo went down in successive days. Shut down Mateo, slowed down Harvey and tried to slow down Hefner which didn't work. 0.00% chance Bobby Parnell is available opening day. Bet? Let's do this.
You are such a fucking amazing asshole sometimes? And again you want to make an argument or a fight about something Im not even arguing about. Never once did I say he would be ready for opening day. Not once. In fact I just said, neither would surprise me. We likely won't know for months but my point was most pichers are coming back in 12 months these days, especially relievers.
I don't get the reasoning to tendering him. $4mm for 3/4 of a season. Just to hope he shows enough to be trade bait. I see several better uses of that money.
Fine fuck it. Lets do it. If he comes back before June you can't post for what a week? a day? Let's be reasonable and still be cool about it. If not I won't. June seems ridiculous sorry.
I don't get the reasoning to tendering him. $4mm for 3/4 of a season. Just to hope he shows enough to be trade bait. I see several better uses of that money.
I think people are forgetting how good Parnell was in 2013. Are we not sitting around talking about what Miller is getting on the open market? Parnell at 3-4 million is a bargain if he is truly is healthy IMO. And he'll be ready pretty close to the start of the season regardless if there are no setbacks.
to be honest Im not counting on him. Im fine with Black in the 7th, Familia in the 8th, and Mejia in the 9th. I think Parnell is kind of a wild card. I think you are forgetting how dominant Parnell was when he was last healthy though. He was VERY good in 2013. If he's close to that, the money he is being paid will be a bargain.
I just don't know if it's sustainable.. I doubt he will be that good again in 2015 but we;ll see. As long as we're not banking on him to take on a major role I'm not too worried about it.
I think we have solid 7, 8, 9 guys already and I could still see a Mazzoni and even a Montero carving out roles in the pen in 2015. Im looking at Parnell as an added bonus.
I am optimistic is that Parnell was one of a handful of players(Lagares/Wright) that went down to St. Lucie already to team up with Barwis and get a jump on the offseason. Looks like he's trying to show up to camp extremely strong and in shape this year.
I tend to discount performances on crappy teams and it's not like Parnell was ever a rock star so my expectations for him off TJ are pretty muted. Collins' comments were ridiculous in my view, and really seemed to serve no purpose. I think it would be a big mistake to not bring in at least 1 pitcher who has experience pitching in the 8th or 9th inning of a playoff game, and I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation to have. If they want to get to the playoffs it stands to reason they're going to need some guys who have been there before.
Does this roster even have 5 guys on it who've played a playoff game? Wright, Granderson, Colon, Cuddyer...?
a good performance on a crappy team. He was outstanding for an entire season. He clearly made a jump in 2013 from to good to very good. Will his injuries and Tommy John derail that? I don't know. But lets stop poo pooing what Parnell did and was in 2013.
Guys with playoff experience? Seriously? Could care less. Far more interested in putting good players on the field then who has made the playoffs or not. I just mentioned earlier in this thread that 21 out of our 25 projected players are homegrown on this team and after a very long rebuild, most have just hit the team within the last year or so. I don't think we need to criticize our young studs because they haven't made the playoffs yet. Most have broken in with the Mets and we all know we haven't been there in a while.
Look. I get berated for being overly optimistic but Ive generally been pretty dead on with much of what has happened with the Mets over the last few years. I stood here last year and said 77 wins many times and stood by it. Ill stand by 87/88 this year. Everyone can find me at season's end Ill take all the shit you all want if Im wrong. There will be plenty of room on the bus if Im right however.
people's perception of what a good team is hasn't caught up to reality yet. Everyone think's we need 4 Carlos Delgado's in the middle of the lineup. The majority of the lineups in the Nl are laughable. There's only a handful of teams that I'd put ahead of the Mets for sure. Everyone's acting like Harvey replacing Gee's production who had a negative WAR is going to amount to nothing. The bullpen who was lights out the last few months won't add anything over a full season. All the young players getting full seasons like TDA, Flores, degrom, ect will add nothing. All the players in AAA bursting with talent will offer nothing. Replacing the worst LF production in MLB with a batting champ will offer nothing. Its cool. I see 7-8 more wins on the low end.
for a "real SS". I'd actually take off a couple wins off my projection if we replaced Flores with a Didi or somebody like that. Flores is my breakout player if he plays SS all year. He'll be a top 5 offensive SS in the NL this year.
Fine fuck it. Lets do it. If he comes back before June you can't post for what a week? a day? Let's be reasonable and still be cool about it. If not I won't. June seems ridiculous sorry.
What? Who said 0% before June? I said 0% chance opening day. I'll spot you 2 weeks how about that? Parnell will not appear in the Mets first 15 games, if he does I won't post for a month, if he doesn't you agree to the same. Deal?
What's your WAR estimate for each player this upcoming season? Just curious how optimistic/realistic you are. Thanks.
Wow ok. I think I would have rather posted slash lines because WAR is effected by defense so much. But Ill give you a rough estimate.
Curtis Granderson. 1.7. I think he'll have a bounce back season with the shorter porch, working with Long, and shifting to LF where his arm strength will be mitigated. He might actually break 2.
Juan Lagares. 4. He was 3.8 last year and still didn't play a full season. I think his bat and base stealing will improve slightly.
Michael Cuddyer. 1.9 He was 1.5 last year in limited time and 2.4 in 2013. Ill put him in the middle of that. This is hard because Cuddyer doesn't have a lot of range but he was also playing in the biggest RF in the game in Colorado. His defense obviously will bring his WAR down but if he plays 120+ games his offense should add a ton to the lineup.
David Wright. 4.0. He was 6.0 in 2013 but I don't trust he'll be 100% that player going forward. His defense and hitting should still make him a 4.0 WAR player if he is healthy though
Daniel Murphy. 3.0. He was 3.0 in 2013 and 2.8 in 2014 because his defense regressed a little. I think his defense will bounce back to 2013 levels and his offense is consistent as it comes.
Wilmer Flores. 2.5. Kind of in line with what Steamer predicts if he plays a whole season. This could go higher depending if he breaks out but even on the low end I bet he hits 15 homeruns by accident.
Lucas Duda. 3.5. Anybody who really watched Duda saw the light bulb came on last season. With a full season, a shorter porch and all the confidence in the world Im betting he improves further. 35 homeruns.
TDA. 3.0 Steamer predicts 2.9. That sounds about right. He'll cut down on the passed balls and slug 15-20 homeruns which will make him a top 5 catcher.
Obviously this is assuming health for all of them. I think if any of these players went down, their replacement players would be much better then in years past. I'd be confident losing any player for some time and feel we could fill that position adequately.
Fine fuck it. Lets do it. If he comes back before June you can't post for what a week? a day? Let's be reasonable and still be cool about it. If not I won't. June seems ridiculous sorry.
What? Who said 0% before June? I said 0% chance opening day. I'll spot you 2 weeks how about that? Parnell will not appear in the Mets first 15 games, if he does I won't post for a month, if he doesn't you agree to the same. Deal?
Absolutely not. lol. You said May/June. Now its April 15th? I never said he would be ready for opening day just that it might be possible. But your idiotic June comment I will bet you on.
There are so many times when the pen gets overworked. Having several guys who can close or setup can get us through that and get us through injuries. Also, our guys have upside while Miller is coming off a career year.
Flame away. But also realize by me naming every player Im leaving a lot open for criticism. Im not going to be 100% right on all of them. Im also expecting reasonable health for most(i.e. no catastrophic injuries) but I think we could handle losses this year reasonably well.
Pretty sure the total of those estimates > the '14 Dodgers' starters Â
who led all of MLB in WAR and wRC+ (8 Dodgers regulars had 23.4 total WAR according to Fangraphs, by my math your estimates have the '15 Mets at 23.6).
Dude. You couldn't lick Dan's shoes.
2. Dilson Herrera (2B) 21 years old (AAA/MLB) 56% of 39 votes
3. Brandon Nimmo (CF) 22 years old (AAA) 33% of 43 votes (Run-off vs. Matz 55% of 40 votes)
4. Steven Matz (LHP) 24 years old (AAA) 69% of 48 votes
5. Michael Conforto (LF) 22 years old (A+) 49% of 43 votes
6. Kevin Plawecki (C) 24 years old (AAA) 59% of 34 votes
7. Rafael Montero (RHP) 24 years old (AAA/MLB) 65% of 37 votes
8. Marcos Molina (RHP) 20 years old (A) 43% of 40 votes (Run-off with Rosario 55% of 40 votes)
9. Amed Rosario (SS) 19 years old (A) 75% of 40 votes
10. Jhoan Urena (3b) 20 years old (A) 42% of 38 votes
11. Gavin Cecchini (SS) 21 years old (A) 57% of 37 votes
12. Dominic Smith (1b) 20 years old (A) 75% of 28 votes
13. Matt Reynolds (SS/2b) 24 years old (AAA) 52% of 31 votes
14. Cory Mazzoni (RP/SP) 25 years old (AAA) 46% of 28 votes
15. Matthew Chou Bowman (SP/RP) 24 years old AAA 42% of 38 votes
16. Cesar Puello (23) AAA (OF) 24% of 33 votes, runoff with Fulmer 52% of 31 votes
17. Buca di Beppo (Becerra) 28% of 29 votes, runoff vs. Maz 57%
18. LJ Mazzilli (24) 28% of 32 votes, runoff with Meisner 52% of 31 votes
19. Casey Meisner (20) (A) 57% of 30 votes
20. Milton Ramos (19) (A) 21% of 28 votes, run-off with Ynoa 52% of 23 votes
21. Gabriel Ynoa (22) (AA) 64% of 22 votes
22. Champ Stuart (22) (A+) 36% of 25 votes
23. Michael Fulmer (22) (AA) 41% of 22 votes
24. Akeel Morris (22) (A+) 31% of 26 votes
25. Logan Verrett (25) (AAA) 27% of 22 votes, 47% of runoff with Whalen/Mateo
26. Jack Leathersich (25) (AAA) 24% of 17 votes, 57% of runoff with Whalen
27. Tyler Pill (24) (AAA) 40% of 20 votes
28. Rob Whalen (21) 48% of 21 votes
29. Dario Alvarez (26) 33% of 24 vores
30. Luis Mateo (26) 27% of 26 votes, 77% of runoff with Diaz
31. Robert Gsellman 30% of 23 votes
32. Miller Diaz 25% of 24 votes, runoff with Brosher/Sanchez 37%
33. Blake Taylor 22% of 18 votes, runoff with Brosher/Sanchez 38%
34. Ali Sanchez (C) 18 35% of 23 votes, runoff vs. Brosher 75%
35. Logan Taylor (RHP) 16% of 19 votes, runoff with Brosher/Boyd 44%
36. Jayce Boyd (1b) 35% of 17 votes
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
Yeah you explained it better than I did. That's basically what I meant. I've been in and out of meeting writing on my phone.
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
PJ,
To be clear we were debating ability wise. I made clear the argument against spending money like that on a reliever is very debatable. Miller being better than anyone we have really isn't. Not to mention in all honesty the list of guys who weren't "able to close" is really a lot shorter than people want to admit. People cite Dotel and Benitez (ridiculous) but either one even as closer would make the Mets a better team for example.
After checking with a few front office officials, the answer is that teams have figured out a nice quirk of the nontender deadline. It’s one time that teams can clear a player off the 40-man roster without having to designate the player for assignment. Players nontendered do not hit the waiver wire, they become free agents immediately.
So the nontender deadline is a way to drop a prospect off the 40-man roster with a better chance of retaining him on a minor league contract than it would if you had to expose him on waivers for everyone to claim. The now-free agent can opt to sign with someone else, but that’s often not as appealing as returning to the organization one already knows. Go to another organization and you’re often just another guy. Stick with your existing organization and you have a few coaches, a signing scout or a roving instructor who is sticking up for you in organization meetings.
We don’t know for sure that Heathcott or Campos will re-sign with the Yankees, and Partch could try to make another team’s bullpen. But it’s a slight advantage in a business where teams are looking for any advantage.
the rest of his career (other than maybe one year) has been injury filled and short of his potential.
So, is this the Miller you get going forward or is it the injury riddled/under performer.
He was great last year, but a gamble IMO.
I do understand in a lot of cases the "light bulb" comes on a little later for relievers and maybe now he's healthy, but that same premise (late blooming stud reliever) can be applied to Familia or Edgin (who was fantastic last year vs righties and lefties) or Black, etc.
Like I said, if money was no issue I'd sign him, but I wouldn't consider him a sure thing to duplicate last year.
Adding Miller to an already good pen would give it that potential to be one of the best in the game. Yes he's somewhat of a one hit wonder, but how is that any different than crediting the Mets players who "broke out" last year as reliable? "Going into last year" Vic Black got demoted, Familia couldn't find the strike zone, Mejia was a starter who couldn't get through the 3rd time seeing an order - and of course it goes without saying none of them have even sniffed a meaningful playoff inning.
Re: Lowrie, he's not perfect but he's also 1 year removed from a better season than Murphy has ever put up, while being a better defender at a harder position. Trading for someone better is preferred, but if that's not possible he would certainly make this team better.
Eric the difference is I accept that we just went through a big rebuild and spent close to 4 years trading for prospects and drafting to get to this point. You are saying that I'm taking average to good performances and accepting mediocrity and I would agree that would not be an acceptable form of business practice if we want to improve. The difference is most of the players you are referring to are premium high impact prospects that most of which are experiencing success in their first full seasons. In those cases it is absolutely acceptable to accept their performances with an eye towards the future and not look for upgrades at this time. I'm referring to TDA, Flores, Duda, Herrera, Lagares, Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Black, Familia, Mejia, Edgin. If we aren't going to be happy off of already good performances and give these kids a chance to grow further, what was the whole thing about??
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Dan, its a losing battle my friend. For all the wrong reasons.
Dude. You couldn't lick Dan's shoes.
Yeah, im okay with DMM knowing more than me in regard to baseball. Its your firm grasp on ignorance that amuses me. And, as usual, you provide great evidence of that. Go ahead and flame away.
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if the Mets were the Yankees, I'd say 100% sign Miller, he without a doubt improves the pen.
however; if you believe, like I do, the Mets have limited dollars I would not spend those limited dollars on Miller.
Because he a) doesn't have the greatest track record b) he's never closed c) relievers are the most fungible part of a baseball team and d) relievers have a tendency to be inconsistent from to year to year
and most importantly with the addition of Parnell the bullpen shapes up to be "good enough" those extra dollars (if they exist) are better spent elsewhere.
PJ,
To be clear we were debating ability wise. I made clear the argument against spending money like that on a reliever is very debatable. Miller being better than anyone we have really isn't. Not to mention in all honesty the list of guys who weren't "able to close" is really a lot shorter than people want to admit. People cite Dotel and Benitez (ridiculous) but either one even as closer would make the Mets a better team for example.
Well over it but go back and read my original post. I clearly said "who's Paying". My argument always included the money aspect.
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but I think one thing you consistently do is mistake being 'average' or 'above average' at something for it not being a need. To win you need be the best at something. Sometimes you need to be the best at multiple things. The goal isn't to be just good enough at something that it's not a dire need. Any team trying to win needs to aim to be the best at as many things as possible.
Adding Miller to an already good pen would give it that potential to be one of the best in the game. Yes he's somewhat of a one hit wonder, but how is that any different than crediting the Mets players who "broke out" last year as reliable? "Going into last year" Vic Black got demoted, Familia couldn't find the strike zone, Mejia was a starter who couldn't get through the 3rd time seeing an order - and of course it goes without saying none of them have even sniffed a meaningful playoff inning.
Re: Lowrie, he's not perfect but he's also 1 year removed from a better season than Murphy has ever put up, while being a better defender at a harder position. Trading for someone better is preferred, but if that's not possible he would certainly make this team better.
Eric the difference is I accept that we just went through a big rebuild and spent close to 4 years trading for prospects and drafting to get to this point. You are saying that I'm taking average to good performances and accepting mediocrity and I would agree that would not be an acceptable form of business practice if we want to improve. The difference is most of the players you are referring to are premium high impact prospects that most of which are experiencing success in their first full seasons. In those cases it is absolutely acceptable to accept their performances with an eye towards the future and not look for upgrades at this time. I'm referring to TDA, Flores, Duda, Herrera, Lagares, Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Black, Familia, Mejia, Edgin. If we aren't going to be happy off of already good performances and give these kids a chance to grow further, what was the whole thing about??
We can be happy with good signs and already good performances with a chance to grow, but they are what their record is. None of those performances have produced a record over .500. Some prospects will continue to grow, others will regress. Anointing any before they really produced and established themselves over several years will at best result in the Wright/Reyes vs. Jeter/Arod argument from 2005. How did that chest thumping work out for the Mets? And also only a handful of the guys you mentioned qualify as "premium high impact prospects", if you're going by what their expectations were based on their talent/pedigrees. Very few if any of those guys were looked at as can't miss/perennial all stars (like Bryce Harper for example).
However, I would Be fine with Mejia as the closer. Parnell waiting n the wings if Jenry falters.
The problem with signing a closer is that it is not going to make either Mejia or Parnell very happy. I'd rather invest in a top flight LOOGY. Though the Mets missed the boat a little on that one.
However, I would Be fine with Mejia as the closer. Parnell waiting n the wings if Jenry falters.
The problem with signing a closer is that it is not going to make either Mejia or Parnell very happy. I'd rather invest in a top flight LOOGY. Though the Mets missed the boat a little on that one.
With your scenario won't 1 of them be unhappy either way? Especially if it's Parnell who closes upon his return since it means Mejia goes into the year the closer and is bumped.
If Parnell is ready day one Im betting he is named the closer. If he's not ready and Mejia is the closer I doubt Parnell is just anointed the closer role after the fact. He'll likely have to earn it back. Just what I think.
If Parnell is ready day one Im betting he is named the closer. If he's not ready and Mejia is the closer I doubt Parnell is just anointed the closer role after the fact. He'll likely have to earn it back. Just what I think.
Sandy actually said the opposite of him being ready opening day.
“Right now I think we’re projecting sometime after the season starts,” Alderson said about Parnell pitching in the majors. “But that’s just an educated guess right now.”
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to be ready for opening day. Sandy said he should be ready around then or shortly thereafter but admits he's completely guessing.
If Parnell is ready day one Im betting he is named the closer. If he's not ready and Mejia is the closer I doubt Parnell is just anointed the closer role after the fact. He'll likely have to earn it back. Just what I think.
Sandy actually said the opposite of him being ready opening day.
“Right now I think we’re projecting sometime after the season starts,” Alderson said about Parnell pitching in the majors. “But that’s just an educated guess right now.”
No I just said Sandy said he might not be ready opening day but shortly thereafter as a guess. I was referring to what Parnell himself said that he was shooting for opening day. Tommy John is basically a year and sometimes even shorter for relievers. Wouldn't be shocked at all if Parnell was ready or not. Neither would surprise me.
lol. Here we go again. 100% eh?
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will 100% open the season on the DL.
lol. Here we go again. 100% eh?
Ok, if I'm right you don't post on BBI for a month, if I'm wrong I'll do the same? That's how sure I am. Opening day would be exactly 12 months and the Mets have openly been more cautious with TJ rehab after the Braves 2 time duo went down in successive days. Shut down Mateo, slowed down Harvey and tried to slow down Hefner which didn't work. 0.00% chance Bobby Parnell is available opening day. Bet? Let's do this.
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In comment 12016589 DanMetroMan said:
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will 100% open the season on the DL.
lol. Here we go again. 100% eh?
Ok, if I'm right you don't post on BBI for a month, if I'm wrong I'll do the same? That's how sure I am. Opening day would be exactly 12 months and the Mets have openly been more cautious with TJ rehab after the Braves 2 time duo went down in successive days. Shut down Mateo, slowed down Harvey and tried to slow down Hefner which didn't work. 0.00% chance Bobby Parnell is available opening day. Bet? Let's do this.
You are such a fucking amazing asshole sometimes? And again you want to make an argument or a fight about something Im not even arguing about. Never once did I say he would be ready for opening day. Not once. In fact I just said, neither would surprise me. We likely won't know for months but my point was most pichers are coming back in 12 months these days, especially relievers.
I think people are forgetting how good Parnell was in 2013. Are we not sitting around talking about what Miller is getting on the open market? Parnell at 3-4 million is a bargain if he is truly is healthy IMO. And he'll be ready pretty close to the start of the season regardless if there are no setbacks.
Now he's coming off TJ.
I just am not looking for much out of him this year. If he's an extra reliever, we could do worse. Just don't see him having a major role in this pen.
Does this roster even have 5 guys on it who've played a playoff game? Wright, Granderson, Colon, Cuddyer...?
Guys with playoff experience? Seriously? Could care less. Far more interested in putting good players on the field then who has made the playoffs or not. I just mentioned earlier in this thread that 21 out of our 25 projected players are homegrown on this team and after a very long rebuild, most have just hit the team within the last year or so. I don't think we need to criticize our young studs because they haven't made the playoffs yet. Most have broken in with the Mets and we all know we haven't been there in a while.
Look. I get berated for being overly optimistic but Ive generally been pretty dead on with much of what has happened with the Mets over the last few years. I stood here last year and said 77 wins many times and stood by it. Ill stand by 87/88 this year. Everyone can find me at season's end Ill take all the shit you all want if Im wrong. There will be plenty of room on the bus if Im right however.
What? Who said 0% before June? I said 0% chance opening day. I'll spot you 2 weeks how about that? Parnell will not appear in the Mets first 15 games, if he does I won't post for a month, if he doesn't you agree to the same. Deal?
Wow ok. I think I would have rather posted slash lines because WAR is effected by defense so much. But Ill give you a rough estimate.
Curtis Granderson. 1.7. I think he'll have a bounce back season with the shorter porch, working with Long, and shifting to LF where his arm strength will be mitigated. He might actually break 2.
Juan Lagares. 4. He was 3.8 last year and still didn't play a full season. I think his bat and base stealing will improve slightly.
Michael Cuddyer. 1.9 He was 1.5 last year in limited time and 2.4 in 2013. Ill put him in the middle of that. This is hard because Cuddyer doesn't have a lot of range but he was also playing in the biggest RF in the game in Colorado. His defense obviously will bring his WAR down but if he plays 120+ games his offense should add a ton to the lineup.
David Wright. 4.0. He was 6.0 in 2013 but I don't trust he'll be 100% that player going forward. His defense and hitting should still make him a 4.0 WAR player if he is healthy though
Daniel Murphy. 3.0. He was 3.0 in 2013 and 2.8 in 2014 because his defense regressed a little. I think his defense will bounce back to 2013 levels and his offense is consistent as it comes.
Wilmer Flores. 2.5. Kind of in line with what Steamer predicts if he plays a whole season. This could go higher depending if he breaks out but even on the low end I bet he hits 15 homeruns by accident.
Lucas Duda. 3.5. Anybody who really watched Duda saw the light bulb came on last season. With a full season, a shorter porch and all the confidence in the world Im betting he improves further. 35 homeruns.
TDA. 3.0 Steamer predicts 2.9. That sounds about right. He'll cut down on the passed balls and slug 15-20 homeruns which will make him a top 5 catcher.
Obviously this is assuming health for all of them. I think if any of these players went down, their replacement players would be much better then in years past. I'd be confident losing any player for some time and feel we could fill that position adequately.
You want pitchers too?
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Fine fuck it. Lets do it. If he comes back before June you can't post for what a week? a day? Let's be reasonable and still be cool about it. If not I won't. June seems ridiculous sorry.
What? Who said 0% before June? I said 0% chance opening day. I'll spot you 2 weeks how about that? Parnell will not appear in the Mets first 15 games, if he does I won't post for a month, if he doesn't you agree to the same. Deal?
Absolutely not. lol. You said May/June. Now its April 15th? I never said he would be ready for opening day just that it might be possible. But your idiotic June comment I will bet you on.
Jacob deGrom 4.0. Over a full season I see his WAR going up. He'll be real good in 2015.
Zack Wheeler 2.5. He took a step up over the second half. Im betting he takes another small step next year.
Jon Niese. 1.6. Im worried about Jon and his arm but I don't think he's finishing the year in the rotation anyway.
Bartolo Colon. 2.1 if he lasts all year. See Jon Niese.