I absolutely want this guy back. He's pure class and a helluva leader.
Sometimes you see someones true colors in the toughest of times. Nobody is defending his team and taking the blame better.
Bring him back. Let him get this ball rolling in the right direction again before a handoff to Mcadoo.
TC has his warts but the guy is a winner. I think we have more problems with scouting and personnel than with him.
We have not drafted well at all of late.
Extend TC one more year at the end of this one, reload OL AGAIN.
See what our offense becomes with Mcadoo at the helm for a second year.
TC has his warts but the guy is a winner. I think we have more problems with scouting and personnel than with him.
We have not drafted well at all of late.
Extend TC one more year at the end of this one, reload OL AGAIN.
See what our offense becomes with Mcadoo at the helm for a second year.
So essentially have TC as a sitting duck for another year. Are we going to continue giving him 1 year extensions?
If not now, when?
A few reasons he should be brought back:
1. Keep the disruption to a minimum
2. He has the team still fighting
3. He has earned it
4. No one better is available
It is critical to the success of the franchise however to make sure they protect their #1 asset Eli Manning.
You keep him if you think he can get you to the Super Bowl in the future. That is the only criteria and that's what Reese and Company have to decide.
TTH - If I wanted your opinion I would give it to you.
Quote:
They quit against the Seahawks. It's on tape.
TTH - If I wanted your opinion I would give it to you.
I'm offering to replace yours for free. They're pretty shoddy.
His coaches don't seem to teach very well. Very rarely it seems have they developed a raw talented player into anything. Players just don't improve. JPP for example was drafted as a raw talented player, that made an impact early but could be more if he develops more pass rush skills. Has he become any skilled as a pass rusher in all this time? He is still using the only move he had as a rookie. Williams at LBer still looks like the promising rookie, that he isn't anymore. We saw him fly around the field, but he needed to improve his tackling and technique in coverage. He still has the athletic ability to do it, but has it improved?
They talk about "winning the individual battle." What have they done to improve these players as individuals to allow them to win those battles? Sure you can teach them the scheme and what they need to do on a particular play. But they don't have the skills and the coaches can't seem to teach them the skills needed to accomplish it. If you expect JPP to provide pressure, but can't teach him other ways to apply that pressure, he can't win his individual battle.
Now the players should work to improve this on their own, obviously, so it is not all on the coaches. However, they need to be better teachers than the have shown if you want players to improve.
And if he just gives us more of the same during the next few years, then the Giants will be in a spot to draft their next franchise QB.
A few reasons he should be brought back:
1. Keep the disruption to a minimum
2. He has the team still fighting
3. He has earned it
4. No one better is available
It is critical to the success of the franchise however to make sure they protect their #1 asset Eli Manning.
1. The disruption this team undergoes in the off-season will be anything but minimal, regardless of who is the head coach.
2. This team folds up like a cheap suit at the first sign of adversity.
3. No playoffs 5 of the last 6 years and the team turning into a laughingstock. He's ruining his legacy at this point.
4. That is unknowable. Fact.
the point of attack.
How can you coach that?
Boston College has never been the same since he left, with maybe the Matt Ryan years as an exception. Jacksonville has never been the same since he left.
We assume the next guy will do well, or have his chops. Zero guarantees of that. I stick with the guy who has the rings, and still has a fire in his belly.
Quote:
/agree
TC has his warts but the guy is a winner. I think we have more problems with scouting and personnel than with him.
We have not drafted well at all of late.
Extend TC one more year at the end of this one, reload OL AGAIN.
See what our offense becomes with Mcadoo at the helm for a second year.
So essentially have TC as a sitting duck for another year. Are we going to continue giving him 1 year extensions?
If not now, when?
This "give him 1 more season" or extend one more season..is the very definition of insanity..either a long-term contract (5 yrs at least)...or move on and clean house (hc change and possibly gm and/or scouting dept). This is the conundrum
Quote:
/agree
TC has his warts but the guy is a winner. I think we have more problems with scouting and personnel than with him.
We have not drafted well at all of late.
Extend TC one more year at the end of this one, reload OL AGAIN.
See what our offense becomes with Mcadoo at the helm for a second year.
So essentially have TC as a sitting duck for another year. Are we going to continue giving him 1 year extensions?
If not now, when?
When the FO knows what they have with Mcadoo. Another year or 2 minimum. Have to reload that OL, you do that we win a lot more games this year.
Quote:
In comment 12016017 shabu said:
Quote:
/agree
TC has his warts but the guy is a winner. I think we have more problems with scouting and personnel than with him.
We have not drafted well at all of late.
Extend TC one more year at the end of this one, reload OL AGAIN.
See what our offense becomes with Mcadoo at the helm for a second year.
So essentially have TC as a sitting duck for another year. Are we going to continue giving him 1 year extensions?
If not now, when?
When the FO knows what they have with Mcadoo. Another year or 2 minimum. Have to reload that OL, you do that we win a lot more games this year.
I thought they reloaded the OL this past offseason? No?
look at Tom Landry
he went down the same path
success but then the game passed him by
time for TC to go
I thought they reloaded the OL this past offseason? No?
Indeed. Again, what i see is we are missing on talent acquisition in a big way. The other thing that is troubling is the injuries.
For the past several years we are near bottom if not bottom of the league in Adjusted Games Lost to Injury.
We are getting killed compared to the rest of the league and that is something that may be on TC and Co. But who knows. Otherwise, its clear to me there is lack of talent on this football team at OL, DL, LB, TE
They put in a brand new offense a calendar year ago
PF will be gone
Interesting you mention Shula.
He actually finished his career with by not having a losing record in his final 7 years:
1995: 9-7 (Wild card playoffs)
1994: 10-6 (2nd round playoffs)
1993: 9-7
1992: 11-5 (AFC Title Game)
1991: 8-8
1990: 12-4 (2nd round playoffs)
1989: 8-8
Total record: 67-45 with 4 playoff appearances
Under that record, Shula you think would have been allowed to coach and leave on his terms (sound familiar?).
But after the Dolphins got destroyed by their division rivals Buffalo in the first round of the playoffs, the owner wanted sweeping in the coaching staff (sound familiar?) and others he was close to in the personnel departmentafter the defense allowed nearly 350 yards rushing.
Shula said no. He refused make them all be the scapegoats for the teams performance (sound familiar?) and instead, elected to "retire."
So many of the same things that happened to Shula are in place here with Tom.
- Legendary coach with a franchise QB
- Loyalty to his staff. He was already forced to "part ways" with several members of his staff the year before and if he wants to stay would have to do more coaching changes (Quinn, Fewell, etc).
The only difference is that Shula and his Dolphins were still a year-to-year contender for the playoffs and made it there.
Here, not only have the Giants not made it in 3 years, but the talent on this team is in decay and in need of major overhaul.
Will Tom take the same route as Shula did? Stand by the staff he has been loyal to maybe to a fault and go down with him? Or look out for his own best interests at the expense of more coaching changes?
I'm not sure.
Quote:
The Dolphins made the mistake of keeping Shula to long. A hall of fame coach who stayed when changes needed to be made. The Dolphins have yet to recover. It's time to move on.
Interesting you mention Shula.
He actually finished his career with by not having a losing record in his final 7 years:
1995: 9-7 (Wild card playoffs)
1994: 10-6 (2nd round playoffs)
1993: 9-7
1992: 11-5 (AFC Title Game)
1991: 8-8
1990: 12-4 (2nd round playoffs)
1989: 8-8
Total record: 67-45 with 4 playoff appearances
Under that record, Shula you think would have been allowed to coach and leave on his terms (sound familiar?).
But after the Dolphins got destroyed by their division rivals Buffalo in the first round of the playoffs, the owner wanted sweeping in the coaching staff (sound familiar?) and others he was close to in the personnel departmentafter the defense allowed nearly 350 yards rushing.
Shula said no. He refused make them all be the scapegoats for the teams performance (sound familiar?) and instead, elected to "retire."
So many of the same things that happened to Shula are in place here with Tom.
- Legendary coach with a franchise QB
- Loyalty to his staff. He was already forced to "part ways" with several members of his staff the year before and if he wants to stay would have to do more coaching changes (Quinn, Fewell, etc).
The only difference is that Shula and his Dolphins were still a year-to-year contender for the playoffs and made it there.
Here, not only have the Giants not made it in 3 years, but the talent on this team is in decay and in need of major overhaul.
Will Tom take the same route as Shula did? Stand by the staff he has been loyal to maybe to a fault and go down with him? Or look out for his own best interests at the expense of more coaching changes?
I'm not sure.
BBC..excellent, excellent post. Well said
Since Shula left, the Dolphins have basically had similar record to those of Shula's last several years, with a few really bad seasons and three 7-9 seasons.
All the argument seems to support is that the Dolphins performed about as good without Shula as with.
Seems like then, the logic is that a HC change or not isn't going to make a difference. The talent on the Giants can field on game days is what will determine when things will get better.
Since Shula left, the Dolphins have basically had similar record to those of Shula's last several years, with a few really bad seasons and three 7-9 seasons.
All the argument seems to support is that the Dolphins performed about as good without Shula as with.
Seems like then, the logic is that a HC change or not isn't going to make a difference. The talent on the Giants can field on game days is what will determine when things will get better.
My point was both are great coaches. But there comes a time to move on
Indeed
Quote:
Stability is key to success in the NFL.
A few reasons he should be brought back:
1. Keep the disruption to a minimum
2. He has the team still fighting
3. He has earned it
4. No one better is available
It is critical to the success of the franchise however to make sure they protect their #1 asset Eli Manning.
1. The disruption this team undergoes in the off-season will be anything but minimal, regardless of who is the head coach.
2. This team folds up like a cheap suit at the first sign of adversity.
3. No playoffs 5 of the last 6 years and the team turning into a laughingstock. He's ruining his legacy at this point.
4. That is unknowable. Fact.
This ^ I'm tired of expecting mediocrity or worse. As a matter of fact, I'll get killed but fk it, I wouldn't mind handing off to McAdoo next year & hire a DC/Asst HC.
Please spare the rings thing. Yes they were great, but, if you're gonna be honest with yourself those were flukes.
The rings are not flukes, but neither are the disastrous coaching hires, no-show performances and blowout losses.
Whatever Coughlin is stuck with, is what Coughlin helped create. Stop acting like these players was forced on him. He had a say so, with the bums on this team.
1. Fire his entire staff, except McAdoo. Fewell, Quinn, Flaherty, Nunn, Hermann are must-fires. No exceptions.
2. Concede offensive control and creativity to McAdoo. Fuck balance.
3. Revisit his strength & conditioning and medical services.
4. Allow management to hire a quality control analyst that Coughlin has no influence over. A former head coach that will analyze TC's gameplan week after week and offer advice on what he sees and how he would attack the Giants. Coughlin's ability to self-scout his team is maybe his worst quality.
1. Fire his entire staff, except McAdoo. Fewell, Quinn, Flaherty, Nunn, Hermann are must-fires. No exceptions.
2. Concede offensive control and creativity to McAdoo. Fuck balance.
3. Revisit his strength & conditioning and medical services.
4. Allow management to hire a quality control analyst that Coughlin has no influence over. A former head coach that will analyze TC's gameplan week after week and offer advice on what he sees and how he would attack the Giants. Coughlin's ability to self-scout his team is maybe his worst quality.
Quote:
IF Coughlin stays, he must:
1. Fire his entire staff, except McAdoo. Fewell, Quinn, Flaherty, Nunn, Hermann are must-fires. No exceptions.
2. Concede offensive control and creativity to McAdoo. Fuck balance.
3. Revisit his strength & conditioning and medical services.
4. Allow management to hire a quality control analyst that Coughlin has no influence over. A former head coach that will analyze TC's gameplan week after week and offer advice on what he sees and how he would attack the Giants. Coughlin's ability to self-scout his team is maybe his worst quality.
If those are the conditions, just fire the man.
It's a hard pill to swallow, yes. Present him with these conditions and he may swallow his pride and accept it, or he will resign. Either way, it's a win-win for the Giants PR team.
Sometimes, you just have to save the man from himself.
1. Fire his entire staff, except McAdoo. Fewell, Quinn, Flaherty, Nunn, Hermann are must-fires. No exceptions.
2. Concede offensive control and creativity to McAdoo. Fuck balance.
3. Revisit his strength & conditioning and medical services.
4. Allow management to hire a quality control analyst that Coughlin has no influence over. A former head coach that will analyze TC's gameplan week after week and offer advice on what he sees and how he would attack the Giants. Coughlin's ability to self-scout his team is maybe his worst quality.
How is this any more dignified than firing him? Stripping him of any authority is a slap in face to a guy fans claim to have a lot of respect for. Then you're just parading him around like a show pony.
Mario!!!! - ( New Window )
He knows because he's a gymnastics coach for the jests!
The Giants have 20 players on IR, including a bunch of their key contributors: Prince Amukamara, Jon Beason, Victor Cruz, Geoff Schwartz, Robert Ayers, Mathias Kiwanuka, Walter Thurmond and Trumaine McBride.
Add to that the fact that we started with an o-line that is hardly NFL material and a whole new play book.
OFFENSIVE LINE IS THE PROBLEM---NOT THE COACH--NOT THE QB
in Tom we Trust
the point of attack.
How can you coach that?
"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated."
+1
This is why if the ownership, after already making him "part ways" with 3 of his longtime assistants last year ask him to do it again with Fewell and Quinn, he will likely just retire.
Asking a coach to replace 5 of his trusted coaches (that he has battled for and won during his time) in a span of 12 months is basically code for what you are saying.
He went along with it last year. To ask him to do it again is just disrespectful. You may as well suck it up and have the breakup talk.
The Giants have 20 players on IR, including a bunch of their key contributors: Prince Amukamara, Jon Beason, Victor Cruz, Geoff Schwartz, Robert Ayers, Mathias Kiwanuka, Walter Thurmond and Trumaine McBride.
Add to that the fact that we started with an o-line that is hardly NFL material and a whole new play book.
Kiwanuka and trumaine mcbride not playing are not acceptable reasons for this team being awful.
Most people expected 7-9, 8-8 from this year, and they've sunk well below that.
Philly got a new coach 2 yrs ago and look at them now. 2 yrs ago we sucked and now were even worse off. Also, if PF is so bad, why didn't TC fire hime last year? I guess to some here, loyalty is more important than wins.
Philly got a new coach 2 yrs ago and look at them now. 2 yrs ago we sucked and now were even worse off. Also, if PF is so bad, why didn't TC fire hime last year? I guess to some here, loyalty is more important than wins.
Bingo