We have a shot at a top OT in the draft (Scherff...Peat is slipping), or someone like Orlando Franklin or Cannon?
We will be in a position to acquire a top OT this off-season, but do we need a OT or a G? Do you draft Scherff top 10 to play G?
I'm just confused as to how to improve the talent on the OL, when essentially, Beatty/Richburg/Pugh/Schwartz are 4/5 for 2015????
When worlds really do collide! - ( New Window )
Agree. Pugh to me is a OT. Draft a guard in the 2nd.
I'd like to invest in young OL talent, for the future.
Pugh took a major step back and no matter how we look at him his game at RT and his body frame is a LG not a RG or RT. Pugh looked lost out there and provides nothing in the running game due to his lack of physical play and overall strength. He needs to make the move to LG and play along side Beatty we all wish for many years to come. He has the feet to play OG but needs to become much stronger and develop a physical game.
Hopefully we have Schwartz to play RG but he now comes with a big question mark can he stay on the field. He is not an OT and we need the big physical presence he represents on the right side once again if he can remain injury free. We all know he did not look very good when he was on the field of play but we must pray that's not a reality.
Richburg return to OC his natural position helps as us in two ways one he brings more powerful presence to OC and puts Walton on the bench as very good depth at OC. He needs the offseason to work on his body for the grind of an entire NFL season. He played out of position but it should only help him understand what the guys next to him are doing even more.
Beatty look he is not a problem he is the one sure thing we have if any at all on our OL. He played very well but needs to refine his game so we don't hear his name two or more times a game. How many of us felt he would play the entire year with very little camp or preseason time prior to the start of the season. He is not a mauler but with Pugh beside him hopefully the right side should become a team strength.
So at this point we would have Beatty, Pugh, Richburg and Schwartz or 4 out of 5 positions filled. At present we don't have a RT on this team or any depth except for Walton at OC that's all the other names are just loosing lottery tickets to be thrown away. Jerry is not worth a return not even for depth, Mosley went from starting to out of sight, Brewer needs to find a job where you just carry teddy bears. Herman what do we know about him after two years, Reynolds is just another body. Johnson, Bamiro, Gaines and Kropog more lottery tickets but the first number looks wrong already.
FA is the first option to solve some of our problems starting with a good RT and depth along the OL. We need a swing OG we do not need a stating OG we need a starting RT which is a priority. Money is the route of all evil in FA and the major factor in what we can or can't accomplish. Who is available and wants to come to the team is the second factor to consider. Once again it's great to say we will sign the top guy or guys but in reality that never seems to workout real well.
The draft is the second option and depending on FA moves made places a higher or lesser importance to the OL positions. This draft is very solid at the OT & OG position and should bring anywhere from two or more players to develop. Teams that spend heavily on the OL during FA period also help teams looking for OL personnel in the draft.
Food for thought everyone is in love with Dallas OL today but only three of their players are top picks the other two are just two more NFL OL. This is a team that no one expected much from but now are the darlings of the NFC East because they are winning. We also have some top draft picks on our OL it's time they start showing the talent we invested in.
(So an NFL team has to have good backup linemen. The Giants lack them.)
Also likely: In any given season, at least one other O-lineman, possibly at the same position where the starter ended up on IR, will miss time.
(So an NFL team's 3rd stringers, usually developmental prospects, have to have some talent, and must be able to do something to help the team win when they're forced into action. The Giants seem to lack such OL prospects right now. Though maybe Hermann will surprise us.)
...they draft an OT in the first round and he tears his achilles in the preseason game against the Jets?
...they give a top tier free agent OL a $25M signing bonus and he spends the money on a sex change operation?
...they bring back Diehl and Gilbride?
What if?.... - ( New Window )
...they draft an OT in the first round and he tears his achilles in the preseason game against the Jets?
...they give a top tier free agent OL a $25M signing bonus and he spends the money on a sex change operation?
...they bring back Diehl and Gilbride? What if?.... - ( New Window )
They weren't drafting in the top 10. That makes one hell of a difference.
Quote:
...Pugh plays great at OG, but Beatty regresses at OT?
...they draft an OT in the first round and he tears his achilles in the preseason game against the Jets?
...they give a top tier free agent OL a $25M signing bonus and he spends the money on a sex change operation?
...they bring back Diehl and Gilbride? What if?.... - ( New Window )
Don't be ridiculous, Milton. We can't worry about any Giant wrecking his leg, that's just part of the game we can't control. Unless he's running back kicks, in which case ohmigod dontletithappen dontdoit no no NO NO NEVER AGAIN SEHORN FLASHBACK NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Me too. His sickness may have played a role. Regardless, if the Pats don't resign him he's a free agent.
I'd like to see them get a solid, lights out left tackle, even if means trading picks to move up or somehow trade for a young 2nd or 3rd year tackle. I think Beatty would be a solid right tackle. Richburg should be moved to center ASAP. Pugh would slide over to guard. I think they're stuck with Schwartz because of his contract, hopefully he can play the other guard otherwise another free agent. No matter what they do, I don't expect much from the line next year as it will be new players in new positions again.
The idea of fixing the Oline is a paramount onebut we also must make sure the supporting cast also has talent to help that area improve. If we had a 2nd RB who knows how to make people miss and can catch passes that would help the Oline some. If we had any TE's who could block and catch then defenses would have to game plan for that and not just look to Tee on the Line and the QB. Right now we have TE's who can be played a receivers (not great ones either) and the threat of them bulldozing someone off the line is minimal if not non existent. A true 2-way TE is very much a need!
The line for next year at this point would see LT- Beatty, LG- ?, C- Richburg (not a sure thing either), RG- Schwartz and RT- Pugh. However if the Giants go LT in the first Rd then Beatty moves to RT and Pugh goes to LG.
I'd like to invest in young OL talent, for the future.
Before deciding on a Guard real high, lets see what Eric Herman can do.
Stud Guard! - ( New Window )
Maybe we should make you the GM, all-knowing one. As to the OP, we almost certainly will not know if Pugh can play guard. Particularly with Schwartz out, he will play nothing
but RT the rest of the year. We will go into the draft with no knowledge of whether he can handle guard
The idea of fixing the Oline is a paramount onebut we also must make sure the supporting cast also has talent to help that area improve. If we had a 2nd RB who knows how to make people miss and can catch passes that would help the Oline some. If we had any TE's who could block and catch then defenses would have to game plan for that and not just look to Tee on the Line and the QB. Right now we have TE's who can be played a receivers (not great ones either) and the threat of them bulldozing someone off the line is minimal if not non existent. A true 2-way TE is very much a need!
The line for next year at this point would see LT- Beatty, LG- ?, C- Richburg (not a sure thing either), RG- Schwartz and RT- Pugh. However if the Giants go LT in the first Rd then Beatty moves to RT and Pugh goes to LG.
Beatty is NOT a RT. Can we just let that idea go please?
Anyone who pencils in Pugh at guard needs a good, swift kick in the nuts. The only time he ever played guard is a few snaps at his senior bowl. He's a TACKLE. There is no evidence he can play guard and play it well at this level!
That leaves their great draft position open to get playmakers.
So, you get your Oline better in FA, draft the best young difference makers you can get and also look for Dline help in the draft.
Beatty will be 30 next year. He's been better than he was last year but he's a middle of the road LT on his best day. Also counting on any NFL player to be better in their 30s than they were in their 20s is fucking asking for disaster.
Schwartz. Who knows. He's not goin anywhere but ZERO can be assumed about him for now. He might be the most solid player overall but long term?
Richberg. Played out of position. The one guy I'm actually the most positive about long term because he seems to have the size and abilty to be a good C. Also seems to play w more of an attitude than the rest of the wall flowes
Jerry. Go. Anywhere. Please
Pugh. Too many anointed this kid status that just made no sense. Because he had a solid rookie season he was plugged in as a RT for years. Couldn't find a guy more dissimilar that McKenzie if they tried. Looked horrific before he got banged up. Anyone who is sure he's a long term starter either at RT or even G is being totally optimistic and ignoring legit questions
Everyone else like Mosely, Brewer, or Herman is being insanely kind.
No depth and and an seriously gloomy future.
How anyone can trust Reese or pass on any top tier OL doesn't want to see this team win. Cooper and OBJ sounds great on paper but this team will never win until the OL becomes at least mediocre. It's bottome 5 and has been for 3 years
So it sounds like you're looking to get about 3 immediate impact players from this draft. When was the last time Reese managed that?
mrvax,
the problem with relying on FA to get a starting guard, is that this is exactly what the Giants attempted in this past year's draft, resulting in average Jerry and injured Schwartz. It didn't work.
I guess relying on free agency could still work if tried again, but I would support drafting young guards in the early rounds to build for the future.
mrvax, do you know of reliable free agent guards available this season?
Then pray for no injuries. Yeah, I know, that's like praying for world peace.
Then pray for no injuries. Yeah, I know, that's like praying for world peace.
Building a line around 2 guys playing positions that they have no track record at and counting on a guy who's spent most of his career injured sounds like a good plan to me, too. Count me in
Quote:
Why not get a stud LT. Move Beatty to RT. Move Pugh to G. Move Richburg to C. Schwartz would be the other G.
Then pray for no injuries. Yeah, I know, that's like praying for world peace.
Building a line around 2 guys playing positions that they have no track record at and counting on a guy who's spent most of his career injured sounds like a good plan to me, too. Count me in
They would have all off season to implement it.
Or they can keep an average guy at LT and fill in with guys like John Jerry and Adam Snyder and increase Eli's life insurance.
Pugh took a major step back and no matter how we look at him his game at RT and his body frame is a LG not a RG or RT. Pugh looked lost out there and provides nothing in the running game due to his lack of physical play and overall strength. He needs to make the move to LG and play along side Beatty we all wish for many years to come. He has the feet to play OG but needs to become much stronger and develop a physical game.
Hopefully we have Schwartz to play RG but he now comes with a big question mark can he stay on the field. He is not an OT and we need the big physical presence he represents on the right side once again if he can remain injury free. We all know he did not look very good when he was on the field of play but we must pray that's not a reality.
Richburg return to OC his natural position helps as us in two ways one he brings more powerful presence to OC and puts Walton on the bench as very good depth at OC. He needs the offseason to work on his body for the grind of an entire NFL season. He played out of position but it should only help him understand what the guys next to him are doing even more.
Beatty look he is not a problem he is the one sure thing we have if any at all on our OL. He played very well but needs to refine his game so we don't hear his name two or more times a game. How many of us felt he would play the entire year with very little camp or preseason time prior to the start of the season. He is not a mauler but with Pugh beside him hopefully the right side should become a team strength.
So at this point we would have Beatty, Pugh, Richburg and Schwartz or 4 out of 5 positions filled. At present we don't have a RT on this team or any depth except for Walton at OC that's all the other names are just loosing lottery tickets to be thrown away. Jerry is not worth a return not even for depth, Mosley went from starting to out of sight, Brewer needs to find a job where you just carry teddy bears. Herman what do we know about him after two years, Reynolds is just another body. Johnson, Bamiro, Gaines and Kropog more lottery tickets but the first number looks wrong already.
FA is the first option to solve some of our problems starting with a good RT and depth along the OL. We need a swing OG we do not need a stating OG we need a starting RT which is a priority. Money is the route of all evil in FA and the major factor in what we can or can't accomplish. Who is available and wants to come to the team is the second factor to consider. Once again it's great to say we will sign the top guy or guys but in reality that never seems to workout real well.
The draft is the second option and depending on FA moves made places a higher or lesser importance to the OL positions. This draft is very solid at the OT & OG position and should bring anywhere from two or more players to develop. Teams that spend heavily on the OL during FA period also help teams looking for OL personnel in the draft.
Food for thought everyone is in love with Dallas OL today but only three of their players are top picks the other two are just two more NFL OL. This is a team that no one expected much from but now are the darlings of the NFC East because they are winning. We also have some top draft picks on our OL it's time they start showing the talent we invested in.
I agree with this Pugh is NOT an NFL Tackle, but can be a very good NFL LG
Beatty will be 30 next year. He's been better than he was last year but he's a middle of the road LT on his best day. Also counting on any NFL player to be better in their 30s than they were in their 20s is fucking asking for disaster.
Schwartz. Who knows. He's not goin anywhere but ZERO can be assumed about him for now. He might be the most solid player overall but long term?
Richberg. Played out of position. The one guy I'm actually the most positive about long term because he seems to have the size and abilty to be a good C. Also seems to play w more of an attitude than the rest of the wall flowes
Jerry. Go. Anywhere. Please
Pugh. Too many anointed this kid status that just made no sense. Because he had a solid rookie season he was plugged in as a RT for years. Couldn't find a guy more dissimilar that McKenzie if they tried. Looked horrific before he got banged up. Anyone who is sure he's a long term starter either at RT or even G is being totally optimistic and ignoring legit questions
Everyone else like Mosely, Brewer, or Herman is being insanely kind.
No depth and and an seriously gloomy future.
How anyone can trust Reese or pass on any top tier OL doesn't want to see this team win. Cooper and OBJ sounds great on paper but this team will never win until the OL becomes at least mediocre. It's bottome 5 and has been for 3 years
You analysis is sound, although I am not quite as pessimistic. Beatty has done well this year, much better than I thought, especially after his terrible 2013, and given that he is playing next to a rookie. In any event, there is too much of a cap hit to cut him, and it would just create another hole on an already porous unit.
I do agree that if Pugh and Richburg don't work out, then it will be a disaster. We have to hope that Richburg can play center next year, and that Pugh can either be a RG or RT, with Schwartz playing the other position. That is a lot of ifs, ands, and buts, but that's where we are right now.
Assuming all of that happens, we then need a mauling guard at LG.
Of the current players, I would only bring Herman and Gaines to camp aside from the starting five. You also bring the mauling guard, another low round pick, one or two vet FAs, and Barimo.
I don't care the position just take best DL/OL athlete available for the next 14 picks.
the chance of value for that is fairly high.
or trade down a bit and do it twice, 3 times for each line
but - you get no bullshit players. for example, this top round type list does not include (for our team) any SAM type DE/LB 'tweeners, or any OLsmen with little to no proven high level experience.
for rounds 1 and 2.
make this a cornerstone player(s) and adjust TO them.
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In comment 12020344 Gman11 said:
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Why not get a stud LT. Move Beatty to RT. Move Pugh to G. Move Richburg to C. Schwartz would be the other G.
Then pray for no injuries. Yeah, I know, that's like praying for world peace.
Building a line around 2 guys playing positions that they have no track record at and counting on a guy who's spent most of his career injured sounds like a good plan to me, too. Count me in
They would have all off season to implement it.
Or they can keep an average guy at LT and fill in with guys like John Jerry and Adam Snyder and increase Eli's life insurance.
Let's not pretend that your two choices are the only options. The draft in in April or May. Between the end of the season and the draft I don't believe they have any contact drills, so they would go through FA and into the draft with no clue whether those moves will work or not. Add on the fact that there are no sure thing draft picks at LT. And I've seen numerous comments here that Beatty would be a lousy RT.
then adjust