What if Pugh can't play G and....?

In comment 12020325 Gregorio said:

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I meant to write the Giants attempted to get starting guards via free agency last year, not the draft. mrvax, do you know of reliable free agent guards available this season?

From what I see, outside of Iupati, no home run prospects exist. There is a guy on the Denver line that has played good, but has also been called out this season by the media for poor play. Their is a seahawk who is good but has only made it through one full season. Iupati is going to get top dollar. It's either him or sign a few guys that are less than Iupati, but more than what we have and then have a nice competition in camp.

because you draft into the inherent strengths of the draft, you don't reach for a position out of desperation. That tends to eliminate RTs and OGs at the top of the first round, not even a Larry Allen was selected that high. Teams that picked those positions higher than usual in recent years typically weren't teams with tons of needs.

NYG could very easily draft a LT in this top 10, if there's one they want, Beatty or no. They could draft a tackle who's superior to Pugh at RT and start him there right off the bat, and kick Pugh inside.

Ultimately, you don't worry about Pugh you put it on him to improve and win a job, first rounder or no. Yes, I know NYG probably won't be that tough on him but I'm not passing on a top 10 OT prospect because Pugh's on the roster.

In comment 12020441 giantgiantfan said:

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In comment 12020325 Gregorio said: Quote: I meant to write the Giants attempted to get starting guards via free agency last year, not the draft. mrvax, do you know of reliable free agent guards available this season? From what I see, outside of Iupati, no home run prospects exist. There is a guy on the Denver line that has played good, but has also been called out this season by the media for poor play. Their is a seahawk who is good but has only made it through one full season. Iupati is going to get top dollar. It's either him or sign a few guys that are less than Iupati, but more than what we have and then have a nice competition in camp.

We've been doing those kinds of competitions for years. And the results are always the same- you end up with a lousy starter and even lousier backups.

tells you they'll look at DE, WR, LT, CB firstly ... but, they're not going to reach for an OL. Reese could point at the roster right now, blame the OL woes on injuries, and just upgrade the LG position :

Beatty-UFA-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh

I think that's an average group. I think Reese would be ok with it, sadly.

In comment 12020427 Bill in UT said:

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In comment 12020359 Gman11 said: Quote: In comment 12020348 Bill in UT said: Quote: In comment 12020344 Gman11 said: Quote: Why not get a stud LT. Move Beatty to RT. Move Pugh to G. Move Richburg to C. Schwartz would be the other G. Then pray for no injuries. Yeah, I know, that's like praying for world peace. Building a line around 2 guys playing positions that they have no track record at and counting on a guy who's spent most of his career injured sounds like a good plan to me, too. Count me in They would have all off season to implement it. Or they can keep an average guy at LT and fill in with guys like John Jerry and Adam Snyder and increase Eli's life insurance. Let's not pretend that your two choices are the only options. The draft in in April or May. Between the end of the season and the draft I don't believe they have any contact drills, so they would go through FA and into the draft with no clue whether those moves will work or not. Add on the fact that there are no sure thing draft picks at LT. And I've seen numerous comments here that Beatty would be a lousy RT.

Unless the team now knows Richburg & Pugh aren't good enough to play at their best suited positions, they must build around them. Where will they get 5 linemen that are better? Free agents & draft picks? Those 2 guys are 2 of the 3 highest picks they've had the last 2 years. They have other needs on offense and especially defense they'll eventually have to use high picks for. If those 2 guys don't work out coupled with the loss of Wilson, they'll be in almost as bad of shape as they were in the 60's & 70's when they either traded away high picks or wasted the ones they kept. Teams are built around high picks. If those 2 don't work out and they can't get at least 1 more solid starter, preferably in the draft, they should trade Eli because he'll be almost 40 by the time they can rebuild the entire line.

at the positions of need that they were drafted for, this FO needs to be gone. That is if there's not enough reason anyway for them to be gone.

who could pull on running plays. The Giants haven't had a decent left guard since Seubert retired. I'd like to see Pugh at LG. But I also think RT is their most pressing need. They haven't had a decent right tackle since McKenzie retired. Beatty is a not good choice. He's not powerful enough. I also don't understand why Richburg is not playing center. It's his schooled position if not his most natural position, and I don't buy the argument that he's not big enough to play center in the NFL. Not all successful centers weigh 350 lbs.

Everyone is concerned about pass protection and I get that. But the primary reason Eli gets swamped on passing plays is because the Giants' running game doesn't scare anybody these days because the RT is mediocre, the LG can't pull, the center gets run over, and the tight end can't block. Two years ago, the Giants had a tight end who could block. His name is Bennett, but Reese let him walk. I would move Pugh to LG, Richburg to center, draft a RT and a RG, and sign a TE who can block.

Fix the running game. This will give pass rushers something to think about and will allow play action to work.

In comment 12020463 JonC said:

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tells you they'll look at DE, WR, LT, CB firstly ... but, they're not going to reach for an OL. Reese could point at the roster right now, blame the OL woes on injuries, and just upgrade the LG position : Beatty-UFA-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh I think that's an average group. I think Reese would be ok with it, sadly.

Agreed. I guess my question is: How do you build a very good OL, with average talent?

He's never played G, and as noted above- He's not a power player, and he needs to be inside.

I see Pugh as odd man out if we select someone like Scherff and sign a G. I agree with JonC that he needs to earn a spot.

Short arms, short legs, he's also still a young dude. He should pack on lbs and strength as he moves through his 20s. They might leave him at RT, but I really believe we can get a significantly better player at RT.

NYG loves him, you can basically forget about letting him go.

is can Pugh hit a moving target. I think he's athletic and mobile enough to pull, get to the second level etc, but hitting a moving target downfield is easier said than done. The power sets inside are questions that also need to be answered.

to help WB and new C WesR, GeoffS at RG helps JPugh and WesR; draft an OL at 1 and possibly 3. Sign another veteran OL.
Pugh will be fine.
A Keurig should be the only Brewer on the Giants; Mosley can mosey along, Herman the munster and the rest can go find real jobs.

because the coaching staff keeps trotting bitch ass Walton out to start a Center!!!

and playing OG is basically a promotion of sorts, not a negative.

Fire Flaherty.

In comment 12020493 drkenneth said:

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He's never played G, and as noted above- He's not a power player, and he needs to be inside. I see Pugh as odd man out if we select someone like Scherff and sign a G. I agree with JonC that he needs to earn a spot.

I think the draft people were saying they see him as a versatile guy. So perhaps that's why fans think he would be a good fit there. I know the short arms thing took off here and people would photoshop some funny pictures. So perhaps that attribute along with some athletic ability to move would be a reason.

I haven't seen him ever play the position, so I wouldn't give him the benefit of doubt until i actually see play it and excel at guard.

In comment 12020553 AnishPatel said:

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I haven't seen him ever play the position, so I wouldn't give him the benefit of doubt until i actually see play it and excel at guard.

This

Generally in a draft the most elite G's are drafted in early rounds, but after that many teams draft the more agile college tackles to play guard at the next level.

And we can go OT in round 1, I would still not be surprised if we went OG in round 2. This OL needs a lot of work.

I do see the starting unit right now, realistically, as
Beatty, Schwartz, Richburg, UFA, Pugh. That means three bodies for the OL to build around while Eli is still young enough to work with.