Earlier in the season I argued that the Giants should bring back JPP based on his youth, skillset, the premium position he plays in the 4-3, and the fact that the 2015 draft is not shaping up to be a strong one at DE (still some good later round talent there) and most teams don't let good FA DEs walk. I also pointed to Strahan's career, which was lackluster around the time of his first non-rookie contract, as a precedent to hang on to a DE you think has the talent to dominate.
We've all focused on JPP's sack production or lack there of in recent years and until two weeks ago he only had 3 on the season. After facing two subpar offensive teams in the Jags and Titans, he has shot up to 7 sacks. With three games left to play, and one of them being against the Redskins, it is entirely possible he finishes the season with double digit sacks. If so, I would suggest that these sack numbers are misleading, but also underscore that we the fans place too much emphasis on the actual sack numbers and not enough on the following:
1. Pressures/Hurries
2. Double teams faced
3. Play against upper level OTs
I don't have the PFF numbers in front of me, but in watching every game this year I would say JPP has performed well in those categories minus a few games in November. Additionally, he played extremely well against the best OT in the NFC East, Tyron Smith of Dallas.
Would also add that it is the job of the defensive coaching staff to find advantageous match ups for your defensive impact players through scheme and I don't think Fewell has done a good job of that against the stronger teams the Giants have faced, and its one of the main reasons I think he should go.
After 14 weeks, I'm still in the resign JPP camp, but I absolutely do not want to "break the bank" for him. Thankfully, I don't think the Giants will have to. Sure, JPP is going to get a lot of money, but the CAP increase, potential deal restructures, and departure of some older players should free up enough to retain JPP and still rebuild. That being said, I can't imagine a realistic scenario where JPP and Rolle return, unless Rolle provides a significant hometown discount. (No, cutting Eli is not a realistic scenario) That being said, I would rather pay a 26 year old DE who still has room to develop, than pay a 32 year old safety, who is a good player and leader but gives you little return on the huge investment you just made. (JPP is 26 in January and Rolle is 32 in a few days)
JPP may never be Strahan, and honestly we should not expect him to be. Strahan was a HoF player, and was probably the 2nd best DE of his generation when you consider Reggie White. I think the Giants see JPP as a foundational piece of a defense that needs to add another DE and some talent at LB and the fact remains the league knows good DEs don't grown on trees and teams pay money to get and keep one. If I'm Jerry Reese, I sign JPP to a deal that pays him a large amount up front with reductions in the out years, and heavily pursue Buffalo's RDE Jerry Hughes who the Bill's don't think they can keep.
I also think you can move JPP to LDE, but I keep hearing from people who would know that this would not be a good move for him. I'm an amateur, but I just don't see it. He plays the run well, he is big, strong, and has a tremendous bull rush. I say line him up over the RTs and let him go to work. Happy to hear why I am wrong though.
Excellent against the run and will get more sacks when a good DE starts opposite him.
6 years, $70M, $35M guaranteed
I'd be OK giving that to JPP. Move him to LDE in a better scheme.
Excellent against the run and will get more sacks when a good DE starts opposite him.
He is? So a guy who doesn't get double teamed is having an impact? Four sacks against the two worst OL in football? Wow. One day I hope I work for you and you will give me a raise for mediocre performance. Sorry let him go
97. 15.0. 14. 7.0
96. 5.0. 13. 2.0
95. 7.5. 12. 6.5
94. 4.5. 11 16.5
93. 1.0. 10. 4.5
Total 32. Vs 37
JPP has 5 more sacks then Strahan...and there are still 3 more games in the 14' season...and JPP basically squandered a full season due to injury....
I believe what happened earlier this year is it appears Fewell relied to heavily on older washed up players Kiwi, Jenkins, Paterson, and Ayers...and did not have the foresight to expand the rotation...in the last 2 games...it feels like Fewell expanded the rotation to 8 players...all young players that have been looking to play all season..,the reinforcement have resulted in a fresh JPP at the end of the season....
It is the guys who do not show anything until the contract year that you worry about
You do not get better by letting 25 yr top end DE go
His lack of consistency, being shut down single handedly by good OT's, his health problems, his inability to cover the edge, make it hard to pay him the big bucks that could be used elsewhere....
It's not about the Giants not making an offer....it just won't be enough....as I said before, there is always an idiot GM out there willing to break the bank....how do you overpay for what he produced the last three years?
Bullshit, who's your QB
i'm asking for the moon initially - citing his 2011 play.
contrast that w/the giants, their "max contract" for non-QBs is seemingly revealed in recent offers/signings:
Antrel Rolle: 5 years, $37M, $15M guaranteed
Chris Snee: 6 years, $42.25M, $17M guaranteed
Victor Cruz: 6 years, $46M, $15.6M guaranteed
Steve Smith: 5 years, $35M, $15M guaranteed
DRC: 5 years, $35M, $14M guaranteed
------------
All remarkably similar deals with remarkably similar guaranteed $$$. i see a tough negotiation w/JPP testing the market
Reese probably will let him walk. Why not. The Giants are so loaded with top tier talent they should let one of the 3 guys under 30 who actually produces go. The can re up Kiwi and extend Beason with the cap savings too.
A rookie most likely wont come in and make an impact so we would probably kiss another year away if we lose JPP. Then we will look to the scrap heap to put a bandaid on yet another position.
i'm asking for the moon initially - citing his 2011 play.
contrast that w/the giants, their "max contract" for non-QBs is seemingly revealed in recent offers/signings:
Antrel Rolle: 5 years, $37M, $15M guaranteed
Chris Snee: 6 years, $42.25M, $17M guaranteed
Victor Cruz: 6 years, $46M, $15.6M guaranteed
Steve Smith: 5 years, $35M, $15M guaranteed
DRC: 5 years, $35M, $14M guaranteed
------------
All remarkably similar deals with remarkably similar guaranteed $$$. i see a tough negotiation w/JPP testing the market
i see you list two free agent signings in drc and rolle free agent signings are on a need basis and paid what the rate for that season and which smith are you talking about our stve smith did not get any contract he went free agent
i like jpp but is he worth much more than 8 million a season
i see an offer of 40 million for 5 years with 15-20 of that guaranteed
JPP is going to become a major problem to resign unless this is where he wants to be and is willing to move to LDE. JR is going to be in a position where no matter what he does fans will not be happy a big contract or let him walk. I'm just not sure if investing big money on a run 1st DE is a wise move in a pass happy league. The real problem also is we have no idea what the rest of the league values him at a real pickle for our front office.
Chris Long numbers 4-48 20M guaranteed are a minimum
Not an easy decision because of the salary cap, you can't simply say "must sign" and throw market dollars at him. I hope JPP and his agent are willing to compromise, otherwise I think he's gone.
Not an easy decision because of the salary cap, you can't simply say "must sign" and throw market dollars at him. I hope JPP and his agent are willing to compromise, otherwise I think he's gone.
True but what's the option? Letting him walk leaves the Giants devoid of literally the only star potential player on that side of the ball. I also think that Fewell is horrifically bad at reaching/motivating his squad. . He's not a bad coach but mediocre at best in most things. I'd love to see what a real motivator could do for the D and Pierre Paul. Hopefully they can get creative w bonus opportunities. If he leaves other than Hankins and Prince the D is really thin on guys who are honestly above average at this point.
This is a bad football team. Losing their best DE isn't remotely optimal, but it's not like this roster is a season or two away from contention either. They need to be cautious with paying JPP market dollars unless they have no questions internally, and I don't believe that's the case.
my point here is i don't see the giants offering JPP anymore than they offered those players. that seems to be the max amount of $$$ they will spend on a non-QB
here's another one:
chris canty: 6 years, $42M, $17.25M guaranteed
That's another one. they all fall almost eerily similar years, dollar amount and guaranteed money.
now if u want to add inflation to those numbers (even though they've been largely immune to inflation) i do not see an offer of more than $20M guaranteed. Conversely I do not see JPP's agent asking for anything less than $40M guaranteed. Like a car accident in slow motion.
Beatty: 5 years, $37.5M, $19M guaranteed
again, these contracts all fall in the same vicinity as to what we're willing to spend.
do we really value JPP that much more than mcK, cruz, rolle, snee, etc. when we re-signed them? is JPP even going to consider those dollar amounts??
The guy is one hell of a player in a position this organization values a lot. Can't see them let this guy walking for nothing.
And remember in the nfl contracts aren't necessarily guaranteed so JPP will have to perform if he wants to keep earning that big contract everyone is so afraid to hand him.
The guy has paid his dues and displayed that he can play coming back from the injury. Keep him in blue. He's a keeper.