start...Move Richburg back to center and get rid of Walton.
Draft a blue chip LT or LG and bring in another FA OL for depth. Get rid of Brewer, Jerry, Snyder and Reynolds.
Add a couple of OL draft picks late in the draft and another low-grade F/A for depth. We have a good base with the above in my opinion. We just need to strengthen it further!
Beatty acknowledged he didn't feel 100% when the season started.
One piece away from having an above-average OL. Landing a solid G in the draft or via FA will give us the necessary piece to get over the hump.
This will only be possible if Richburg is the real deal at C and Schwartz can come back healthy and be an average G (can't possibly be worse than Jerry).
I know everybody wants to draft an O linemen early
You can't depend on rookies to be there when you draft or to come in and be a complete player from day one. Getting either a guard or a tackle and moving Pugh and you would have a pretty good o-line. Then draft a couple of studs to back-up and learn.
One piece away from having an above-average OL. Landing a solid G in the draft or via FA will give us the necessary piece to get over the hump.
Agree with this. And man for man, Beatty, Schwartz, Richburg and Pugh are all, I think, better than average players. Maybe no pro-bowlers but healthy it's a pretty good group. One more solid G and they can be a pretty competitive squad.
but many have said his pass pro is suspect. Is that the guy we want protecting Eli when he drips back? He's had very mobile QBS in SanFran. Not so sure he's really the guy you would want and he will probably cost a ton.
RE: With Beatty, Richburg, Schwartz & Pugh.....that is a good place to
start...Move Richburg back to center and get rid of Walton.
Draft a blue chip LT or LG and bring in another FA OL for depth. Get rid of Brewer, Jerry, Snyder and Reynolds.
Add a couple of OL draft picks late in the draft and another low-grade F/A for depth. We have a good base with the above in my opinion. We just need to strengthen it further!
Draft a blue chip LT and do what with Beatty? He can't play RT.
Beatty will need to be upgraded, but he is the lesser of the evils along the line right now, and shouldn't be the first priority. First priority should be to get another solid guard, and then fill out depth along the line (particularly the interior line).
has not been fired for the terrible performance and development of the Ol over the last 5 years is interesting. Is he bieng protected by Coughlin or do they realize that he has been given sh/t to work with by Reese and Ross.
You go after the best Olineman you can get in the early rounds...
I think it is worse. I do agree with the words DISASTER and INCONSISTANT but they apply to both the 2013 and 2014 O-lines.
The fact that JD was not even mentioned speaks volumes and rightly so. He is the first to stop playing after every play, often before the play ends and that's fine because his play often does not contribute anything except for the defenses getting to our RBs before they get to the scrimmage line and to helping the defenses get to Eli.
What I will never understand is knowing how bad the O-line was in 2013, how it is just as bad or worse in 2014.
One piece away from having an above-average OL. Landing a solid G in the draft or via FA will give us the necessary piece to get over the hump.
This will only be possible if Richburg is the real deal at C and Schwartz can come back healthy and be an average G (can't possibly be worse than Jerry).
I'd like to see us be better than above average. We need a very good RT (move Pugh to RG), and we need a very good LG. Move Richberg to Center, Keep Beatty (and pray). Keep Schwartz as depth and let him compete against Beatty. The rest suck! Spend the first two draft picks on that and then work on the defense.
Richburg hasn't played center yet in the pros. Schwartz has to stay healthy. Beatty can't revert to 2013. Pugh needs to recapture 2013. And we'd still need a LG to attain averageness.
is where we should be headed. A right tackle that can flip to the left side would give us some flexibility. Walton is and unmitigated disaster, but we need a tackle. I think Pugh would be an All pro type guard.
leaving the question of adding a RT or LG, and they'll try to fill the fifth spot with a Mosley, first. I disagree with that, I'd be looking for an upgrade at RT.
He's had periods of playing well at RT, periods where he struggles and they kick him inside, etc. I'd wager it's conditioning and want-to issues, needs to learn to motivate himself and be professional.
They have two strong tackles in Solder and Vollmer as well. I think he's best suited at RT.
with the interior line as it is presently composed or with a half-assed "finger crossed" upgrade. Eli is going to get hurt sooner or later with such an approach.
Need to spend big in FA or ephemerally compromise BPA in maybe one round in the draft. Not ideal but they're playing with fire with their franchise QBs health if they try to patchwork it with JD Walton type acquisitions.
McKenzie and O'Hara were excellent signings. Diehl and Snee were equally important cogs (as was Seubert) but McKenzie and O'Hara were excellent.
Pugh/Richburg/Beatty are a decent start.
Jury is out on Schwartz but he'll get another chance.
Personally I'd look to sign 1 mid-20's FA (along the lines of Orlando Franklin) and draft a guy in the top 2 rounds. Depth is obviously paramount.
I agree with this. Maybe the Giants can target someone in the 2nd or 3rd round to develop, meanwhile score somebody in FA who can be plugged in immediately. I haven't looked much at 2015's draft prospects and their values, but i'm hoping this might be the year the Giants finally get their LB in the 1st round.
He's had periods of playing well at RT, periods where he struggles and they kick him inside, etc. I'd wager it's conditioning and want-to issues, needs to learn to motivate himself and be professional.
They have two strong tackles in Solder and Vollmer as well. I think he's best suited at RT.
Meh- May be too risky for our situation. We need a sure thing. He is tempting.
Richburg, Pugh are mainstays. Beatty, until you get a better Lt, which there is, is serviceable. The depth is lousy IMO. If I'm too harsh, then its because this line don't deserve a leeway for the performance these last couple years. And its not going to be totally fixed in just one off season imo
But Pugh is not a guard. What does anyone see in him that makes them say he'll be better inside? Is it the arm length thing? Because it certainly isn't his strength at the point of attack. Our guards get constantly pushed back into Eli's face and yet this is the guy you want inside? Give Pugh a quality guard next to him and we're good. Grab two guards(hopefully one is good enough to start) and swing tackle in FA, and draft a guard and tackle and we might be alright for next season.
came with McAdoo & his offense. Let us see how Williams does against the next 3 fronts that he'll face. The reporters always cue these guys up with the simplification line. Never fails. As for Pugh, what we mentioned early in the year was that his main problem was Jerry, who did not know when to switch off against pressures and stunts. Its also true that McAdoo has not prepared his unit for intense crowd noise like they experienced in Detroit & Philadelphia. Justin Pugh is a tackle. Hes a good one, who will only get better. Giants need 2 physical guards. Schwartz is highly suspect. Even before he was injured, he looked bad.
that does not exist right now....Didn't everyone think our OL woes were fixed in the off season? Is this line any better, than last year? They can't run the ball....they can't pick up 3rd/4th and short when they have to...they can't handle stunting/blitzing...pass blocking only looks better, because Eli is not holding onto the ball long, like he did last year..
We have no idea what Richburg can do at center....Beatty is Beatty, he is not getting better....Schwartz, how do you put a value on this guy? We paid big bucks for a guy who couldn't stay on the field, and when he was out there, there wasn't anything to get excited about...Pugh did not look good, from the first preseason game, this year.....
If Pugh stays at RT, we need a LG...if he moves to LG, we need a RT.....and where are the backups? You can't draft backups....there will be injuries and you need guys that can step in right away with experience....
This line is still a work in progress next year....you not only have to have the pieces, those pieces have to work together as a unit....It's possible, three of our starters in this OL, could be playing different positions next year....it's almost like starting all over....
The question is, how long will it take for this line to gel? And can it stay healthy?
The OL has to be fixed and all means of doing so must be used. I have slightly more faith in the draft doing so versus Free Agency under this current regime. Not a whole lot but just slightly.
pugh is the starting RT unless something changes in free agency or the draft.
thanks pat! lol
that said, only the giants know how badly pugh is injured. he injured his elbow in the preseason so we've never seen him at full strength. perhaps they feel he's been significantly compromised and expect his play to be much better, next year, as he shows them the feet and technique they are looking for, if not the joint stability
RE: With Beatty, Richburg, Schwartz & Pugh.....that is a good place to
start...Move Richburg back to center and get rid of Walton.
Draft a blue chip LT or LG and bring in another FA OL for depth. Get rid of Brewer, Jerry, Snyder and Reynolds.
Add a couple of OL draft picks late in the draft and another low-grade F/A for depth. We have a good base with the above in my opinion. We just need to strengthen it further!
Anyone heard anything about Herman? From what I had read, he would have been in the line-up at OG if he hadn't served the suspension. All accounts were that he had progressed and was doing very well through the preseason.
The fact that Flaherty has not been fired for the terrible performance and development of the Ol over the last 5 years is interesting. Is he bieng protected by Coughlin or do they realize that he has been given sh/t to work with by Reese and Ross.
It is. I don't think any of this has been his fault. And they must think he has something on the ball when Beatty seems to be playing better at LT, a rookie LT was turned into a decent starting RT, and a rookie C has been developed into a reasonably effective LG. He stays.
The last two years they spent the entire pre-season trying pieces and did not practice playing as a unit. IMO There needs to be less juggling. We had a good performance last week because those 5 had played together. Agree that we need at least one more quality o-line. I really think we need two or three to ensure depth, unless you consider Walton adequate for depth at c/g.
I would like to see us spend a premium pick on an OL and to sign a quality FA. I think that would fix things assuming Schwartz comes back strong. Richburg should improve as he adds strength. Pugh gives us flexibility in goinf after a guard OR a right tackle.
The coach is fine. If he gets the same guys for three weeks in a row - they get better. That never happened last year.
The last two years they spent the entire pre-season trying pieces and did not practice playing as a unit. IMO There needs to be less juggling. We had a good performance last week because those 5 had played together. Agree that we need at least one more quality o-line. I really think we need two or three to ensure depth, unless you consider Walton adequate for depth at c/g.
I would like to see us spend a premium pick on an OL and to sign a quality FA. I think that would fix things assuming Schwartz comes back strong. Richburg should improve as he adds strength. Pugh gives us flexibility in goinf after a guard OR a right tackle.
The coach is fine. If he gets the same guys for three weeks in a row - they get better. That never happened last year.
They OL line played good last week because they are getting experienc playing together? Is it possible, it's because they played a lousy def front? I wouldn't jump to conclusions after one game against a lousy team. Lets see how the do against the RAMS and EAGLES first
Draft a blue chip LT or LG and bring in another FA OL for depth. Get rid of Brewer, Jerry, Snyder and Reynolds.
Add a couple of OL draft picks late in the draft and another low-grade F/A for depth. We have a good base with the above in my opinion. We just need to strengthen it further!
This will only be possible if Richburg is the real deal at C and Schwartz can come back healthy and be an average G (can't possibly be worse than Jerry).
Agree with this. And man for man, Beatty, Schwartz, Richburg and Pugh are all, I think, better than average players. Maybe no pro-bowlers but healthy it's a pretty good group. One more solid G and they can be a pretty competitive squad.
I don't think the team is going to plan on filling more than 1 of those 3 needs with a rookie.
Draft a blue chip LT or LG and bring in another FA OL for depth. Get rid of Brewer, Jerry, Snyder and Reynolds.
Add a couple of OL draft picks late in the draft and another low-grade F/A for depth. We have a good base with the above in my opinion. We just need to strengthen it further!
Beatty will need to be upgraded, but he is the lesser of the evils along the line right now, and shouldn't be the first priority. First priority should be to get another solid guard, and then fill out depth along the line (particularly the interior line).
Only then can we go after tackles.
What about Geoff Schwartz?
The fact that JD was not even mentioned speaks volumes and rightly so. He is the first to stop playing after every play, often before the play ends and that's fine because his play often does not contribute anything except for the defenses getting to our RBs before they get to the scrimmage line and to helping the defenses get to Eli.
What I will never understand is knowing how bad the O-line was in 2013, how it is just as bad or worse in 2014.
Quote:
move Richburg to Center and that leaves us with two guard positions to fill. So we'll see.
What about Geoff Schwartz?
What about him? He has contributed zero this year all due to injury. No reason to count on him at all.
This will only be possible if Richburg is the real deal at C and Schwartz can come back healthy and be an average G (can't possibly be worse than Jerry).
I'd like to see us be better than above average. We need a very good RT (move Pugh to RG), and we need a very good LG. Move Richberg to Center, Keep Beatty (and pray). Keep Schwartz as depth and let him compete against Beatty. The rest suck! Spend the first two draft picks on that and then work on the defense.
You either are blocking that out or don't realize how horrific the line was last year.
Don't see how it could possibly hurt. He's getting a real good intro to just how strong, quick, and talented DLs are in the NFL.
That's how we got in this mess in the first place.
That's how we got in this mess in the first place.
But we can count on the draft?
Pugh/Richburg/Beatty are a decent start.
Jury is out on Schwartz but he'll get another chance.
Personally I'd look to sign 1 mid-20's FA (along the lines of Orlando Franklin) and draft a guy in the top 2 rounds. Depth is obviously paramount.
I believe NYG will try to leave Pugh at RT otherwise, and fill OG from within, unless a UFA they've been watching signs for less than market dollars.
One thing I doubt very strongly they do is bring in a ton of new OL, it's going to be two, maybe three, at most.
They'll look to add a couple backups as well.
That's how we got in this mess in the first place.
You're a fucking tool. No guarantees that a draft pick OL is ready to start day 1, a FA will likely be ready to contribute immediately.
On paper, he looks like a good fit here considering his size and versatility.
They have two strong tackles in Solder and Vollmer as well. I think he's best suited at RT.
Need to spend big in FA or ephemerally compromise BPA in maybe one round in the draft. Not ideal but they're playing with fire with their franchise QBs health if they try to patchwork it with JD Walton type acquisitions.
Pugh/Richburg/Beatty are a decent start.
Jury is out on Schwartz but he'll get another chance.
Personally I'd look to sign 1 mid-20's FA (along the lines of Orlando Franklin) and draft a guy in the top 2 rounds. Depth is obviously paramount.
I agree with this. Maybe the Giants can target someone in the 2nd or 3rd round to develop, meanwhile score somebody in FA who can be plugged in immediately. I haven't looked much at 2015's draft prospects and their values, but i'm hoping this might be the year the Giants finally get their LB in the 1st round.
They have two strong tackles in Solder and Vollmer as well. I think he's best suited at RT.
Meh- May be too risky for our situation. We need a sure thing. He is tempting.
Flaherty said it without saying it. And I was shocked at how muted he was about Beatty; whose been by far and away our best player on the OL.
Beatty has played better this year than he did in his contract year, from what I've seen.
Beatty, Schwartz, Richburg, Pugh, FA RT
Beatty, Schwartz, Richburg, FA RG, Pugh
The saying is rebuilding year, not rebuilding two years, in any business. Certainly not one with EIi in the final year of his contact. We shall see.
We have no idea what Richburg can do at center....Beatty is Beatty, he is not getting better....Schwartz, how do you put a value on this guy? We paid big bucks for a guy who couldn't stay on the field, and when he was out there, there wasn't anything to get excited about...Pugh did not look good, from the first preseason game, this year.....
If Pugh stays at RT, we need a LG...if he moves to LG, we need a RT.....and where are the backups? You can't draft backups....there will be injuries and you need guys that can step in right away with experience....
This line is still a work in progress next year....you not only have to have the pieces, those pieces have to work together as a unit....It's possible, three of our starters in this OL, could be playing different positions next year....it's almost like starting all over....
The question is, how long will it take for this line to gel? And can it stay healthy?
Nope.
The OL has to be fixed and all means of doing so must be used. I have slightly more faith in the draft doing so versus Free Agency under this current regime. Not a whole lot but just slightly.
Or was his answer unprintable?
And for the love of God, John Jerry should not be on this roster in '15.
thanks pat! lol
that said, only the giants know how badly pugh is injured. he injured his elbow in the preseason so we've never seen him at full strength. perhaps they feel he's been significantly compromised and expect his play to be much better, next year, as he shows them the feet and technique they are looking for, if not the joint stability
Draft a blue chip LT or LG and bring in another FA OL for depth. Get rid of Brewer, Jerry, Snyder and Reynolds.
Add a couple of OL draft picks late in the draft and another low-grade F/A for depth. We have a good base with the above in my opinion. We just need to strengthen it further!
It is. I don't think any of this has been his fault. And they must think he has something on the ball when Beatty seems to be playing better at LT, a rookie LT was turned into a decent starting RT, and a rookie C has been developed into a reasonably effective LG. He stays.
I would like to see us spend a premium pick on an OL and to sign a quality FA. I think that would fix things assuming Schwartz comes back strong. Richburg should improve as he adds strength. Pugh gives us flexibility in goinf after a guard OR a right tackle.
The coach is fine. If he gets the same guys for three weeks in a row - they get better. That never happened last year.
I would like to see us spend a premium pick on an OL and to sign a quality FA. I think that would fix things assuming Schwartz comes back strong. Richburg should improve as he adds strength. Pugh gives us flexibility in goinf after a guard OR a right tackle.
The coach is fine. If he gets the same guys for three weeks in a row - they get better. That never happened last year.
They OL line played good last week because they are getting experienc playing together? Is it possible, it's because they played a lousy def front? I wouldn't jump to conclusions after one game against a lousy team. Lets see how the do against the RAMS and EAGLES first