He says he's a great run stopper - maybe the best in the NFL - but a lousy pass rusher -- and that he's probably earned Michael Johnson/Michael Bennet money -- $8 million/year
at 8 million per but I think he will end up getting more than that. Teams always overpay for pass rushers and there has to be at least one team who will pay for JPP expecting him to regain his form from 3 years ago.
is the you are essentially locking yourself into having a below average pass rusher at RDE who has shown inconsistent effort (in a contract year when he should be lighting it up, imagine what the effort will be once he's paid). In a pass dominated league, essentially saying that we know one of our two DEs might get to the passer once every 4 or 5 games is simply not tenable in today's NFL.
Like anything else, he's worth what the market is willing to pay him
Going based on his production, I'd say $8m is a good deal for him, but I believe someone's going to pay him quite a bit more than that based on his potential.
I wish that wasn't the case, but that's what it seems to me.
Also note the Franchise Tag not being option. While NYG figures to create more cap space soon, an extension would figure to carry a cap hit at half or less of the Tag cap hit. We need the cap space to fill holes, badly.
JPP is a good player, but the Giants are 4-9, I think they could have managed that without him. If his value is $8mill, offer him that, if he goes elsewhere, put that $8mil to good use.
$23M guaranteed. this is on the high end of max contracts Giants offered to non-QBs.
and thats more guaranteed $$ than we've ever given any non-QB. think that's what it takes w/inflation, premium position, team needs and age of UFA
that means he's on the team another 3-4 years before u can re-evaluate (age 25-29 or so).
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the interesting thing: do we low-ball him, like we did cruz, and play hard-ball? let him test free agency? we ended up getting cruz (and bradshaw) for way less coin than they initially thought they were getting!
I'm not saying we shouldn't pay our good players. But the JPP of 2014 is not who most people think of. They remember the 2011 sack machine. That guy and the effort he gave are long gone. If we were getting year after year of 2011 production, sure, pay the man. But he isn't worth the price.
He's been constantly dinged up while here, which isn't a good thing for a guy that size.
I think if he'd take $8-9m with incentives that could take him to $12m, we'd be very lucky. Like I said above though, I'm not expecting him to take that. I think the lack of pass rushers on the market this season, a lackluster draft and the increase in cap space is going to price JPP out of our range.
Effort seemed to be an issue last year and the year before
who knows how much of that is attributable to injury, but JPP appears to be more of a high-motor player this year. I just don't think he is being coached well enough to develop as a pass rusher. In a perfect world we could bring in a Jared Allen-type at the end of his career, on limited snaps, to see if he can impart some pass rushing wisdom. JPP had Osi at the beginning of his career, but since he left I don't think we have any truly polished pass rushers to set an example. Pass rushing has a strong intellectual and strategic element, and it does not look like JPP really understands the intellectual side of the game, yet.
who knows how much of that is attributable to injury, but JPP appears to be more of a high-motor player this year. I just don't think he is being coached well enough to develop as a pass rusher. In a perfect world we could bring in a Jared Allen-type at the end of his career, on limited snaps, to see if he can impart some pass rushing wisdom. JPP had Osi at the beginning of his career, but since he left I don't think we have any truly polished pass rushers to set an example. Pass rushing has a strong intellectual and strategic element, and it does not look like JPP really understands the intellectual side of the game, yet.
JPP's only move I've ever seen is the bullrush. Maybe I've missed other techniques he has.
of paying our first round pick now because we maybe didn't pay another draft pick that we should have kept before. that is sunk cost, no bearing on future decisions.
This should be a JPP decision and that alone. If $8 is the going rate for what JPP brings to the table then I guess that is a decision we have to make.
I look at the other way. Is JPP a guy I want having a top 5-6 salary on my squad regarding reserved cap space. My answer to that question is no.
good effort all the time,but needs help around him.A more aggressive DC with other players attacking (LB,S,CB)and you will see him shine.We need to retain the good players we have not let them go away and replace with equal or lesser talent.It's time to get off this merry-go-round and resign some of our own.JPP and Prince along with Cruz and Eli are the core vets to build around.
a commitment risk. after he gets paid is he going to throw down the cheeseburgers like there was no tomorrow like he did after the super bowl? we are thin at the position, but i'm not a big fan, he disappears way too often. i would let him walk.
because he prioritizes playing the run and maintaining contain. I think the Giants should continue what theyve been doing over the last couple weeks and shift him into the interior of the line on occassion.
the Dallas game that JPP played as if he was afraid of both the Eagles and Cowboy tackles, I don't want him at any price. O'Hara showed in clips just how bad he looked when just being blocked by the TE.
If he is playing scared, let somebody else overpay him.
why he has not developed any moves. I thought Strahan was supposed to work with him. But Raanan is correct...he does nothing but the bull rush. I never see a swim move or spin or arm under...nothing. To me, a great player wants to get better and works on his craft.
I don't see that with JPP. But I agree someone will overpay for him if he reaches FA.
because he prioritizes playing the run and maintaining contain. I think the Giants should continue what theyve been doing over the last couple weeks and shift him into the interior of the line on occassion.
'
except when he's not maintaining contain and he makes blake bortles look like steve young.
At 8 mil a season would be a step backwards he could be the best DE rush guy in the league but you don't have to spend 8 mil for that alone. He has all the tools to be the best rush and passing DE in the league or top 3, but he has not done it and his years of development are done. He is a finished product what we have seen in the last three years is who he is. He does not have games where he dominates his man or men he is facing and in truth he could maybe be better off somewhere else. This is a guy who is in on almost every snap yet except for the run has his name called once or twice in two games not one. Ok many will say he needs help but even if you provide better support for him on the line will he be the one that makes the sacks or someone else?
Osi for all his problems against the run was always near or behind the QB which still caused him to walk. Tuck for the same reason was also let go contract, injury and performance just did not come anywhere close. Joseph had the best chance to remain a Giant yet he was also not given the big contract he was seeking even at a very young age and little injury history. These three examples of not falling into the big contract just to keep a player has to continue for this team to rebuild. This team is rebuilding even if we keep TC and Eli you will see another poor performance from next years team they are what they are. They say 8 mil but that's just too much money for a DE that does not get to the QB enough. They can't fall for the Tuck numbers where if you take away one or two games he became invisible. It's hard to work out performance laden contracts because someone trash is always another treasure. This rule is also proven false more than 85% of the time yearly due to the player getting hurt or underperforming something we experienced first hand ourselves.
The draft is the best way to build a team along with very highly controlled FA contracts. It's hard to maintain players for more than 4 years in most cases in todays NFL. So when a young player spends a year just watching it's a disservice to both the player and the team. You have them for four years only to waste one year makes absolutely no sense. The scouts and draft personnel for this team will be the key to how long it takes to rebuild along with the Eli contract question. If Eli is making 18+ mil a year the rebuild could take more than 3-4 years. If we keep both Eli and TC and then have another loosing year then start rebuilding again with a new HC then that's another year wasted I think we have all seen enough of those.
Mike, some of us have been harping on that for a while
He hasn't learned ANYTHING in five years. When he can't just overpower his man, he just stands there and tries to bat down passes. No passrush moves whatsoever.
8M will not get it done. Not with Bennett, Dunalap, Johnson, Long, Griffen all making that now - JPP is a better player
He has played 7 less games than Bennett and has 7 more sacks and 100 more tackles.
It is going to take something in the Chris Long neighborhood (4-48 with 40% guaranteed). Want to argue that Longs deal was done before flat cap, fine. M. Johnson signd 5 years 43.5 16M guaranteed in 2014. JPP is a much better player
I would like to see us keep him. But not at a steep price. Just rewind to the last drive against Dallas. DeMarco Murray just stones him at the line with no help. He has to make plays in big situations and he hasn't done that in years.
$8m plus $250K/sack as incentive... would be a great deal for Giants
I think that would make him the 5th highest paid player on the Giants behind Eli, Rodgers-Cromartie, Cruz and Rolle. 4th highest if Rolle doesn't return.
Not bad for a guy who so far has less sacks in the last 3 seasons combined than he had in his 1 fantastic NFL season, and not bad for a guy who's back will always be a potential issue.
It's a fair contract and if he can get more, best of luck to him.
No. He is ok against the run, maybe solid. One good year in 2011, when the team also had Osi, Tuck and Kiwi making sacks. 4 Yrs 28 million tops and that's being generous
Never going to happen because someone will offer more or never going to happen because the Giants won't go that high?
Thats $7m per year, he'll opt to test FA and somebody will definitely pay him more.
Sometimes you have to over-pay when you first sign a player, knowing that down the line when salaries go up (they do every year), it wouldnt be such a bad deal for the team overall.
wouldn't pay him $8M a year, but somebody will probably pay him a lot more. So the question of whether we should keep him at that number seems moot. Sort of like whether we should draft Amari Cooper. He won't be available.
JPP is an excellent run defender, probably the best in the league at his position. His sack numbers have also undoubtedly been affected by the lack of production at the other DE position. But his pass rush moves still seem limited, he has an injury history with his back, and there may be some questions regarding his commitment if he gets a big contract. It's enough to get me to say no to $8M, but even if the Giants are willing to pay it, somebody else will almost certainly pay a lot more.
I wish that wasn't the case, but that's what it seems to me.
Also note the Franchise Tag not being option. While NYG figures to create more cap space soon, an extension would figure to carry a cap hit at half or less of the Tag cap hit. We need the cap space to fill holes, badly.
and thats more guaranteed $$ than we've ever given any non-QB. think that's what it takes w/inflation, premium position, team needs and age of UFA
that means he's on the team another 3-4 years before u can re-evaluate (age 25-29 or so).
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the interesting thing: do we low-ball him, like we did cruz, and play hard-ball? let him test free agency? we ended up getting cruz (and bradshaw) for way less coin than they initially thought they were getting!
I would say it's underrated. Fans like to blast the guy for being lazy or ineffective, but he's a wall against the run and chases plays down.
He doesn't have the sack numbers, so people assume he's doing nothing out there. It's not the case. He really needs to be on the strong side.
I couldn't disagree more...he is all over the field and makes plays most DE's can't.
I think if he'd take $8-9m with incentives that could take him to $12m, we'd be very lucky. Like I said above though, I'm not expecting him to take that. I think the lack of pass rushers on the market this season, a lackluster draft and the increase in cap space is going to price JPP out of our range.
JPP's only move I've ever seen is the bullrush. Maybe I've missed other techniques he has.
Cannot afford to lose him to free agency.
This should be a JPP decision and that alone. If $8 is the going rate for what JPP brings to the table then I guess that is a decision we have to make.
I look at the other way. Is JPP a guy I want having a top 5-6 salary on my squad regarding reserved cap space. My answer to that question is no.
2) If that argument is sound, how does that weigh into the calculation of his worth?
'nuff said.
If he is playing scared, let somebody else overpay him.
I don't see that with JPP. But I agree someone will overpay for him if he reaches FA.
except when he's not maintaining contain and he makes blake bortles look like steve young.
Osi for all his problems against the run was always near or behind the QB which still caused him to walk. Tuck for the same reason was also let go contract, injury and performance just did not come anywhere close. Joseph had the best chance to remain a Giant yet he was also not given the big contract he was seeking even at a very young age and little injury history. These three examples of not falling into the big contract just to keep a player has to continue for this team to rebuild. This team is rebuilding even if we keep TC and Eli you will see another poor performance from next years team they are what they are. They say 8 mil but that's just too much money for a DE that does not get to the QB enough. They can't fall for the Tuck numbers where if you take away one or two games he became invisible. It's hard to work out performance laden contracts because someone trash is always another treasure. This rule is also proven false more than 85% of the time yearly due to the player getting hurt or underperforming something we experienced first hand ourselves.
The draft is the best way to build a team along with very highly controlled FA contracts. It's hard to maintain players for more than 4 years in most cases in todays NFL. So when a young player spends a year just watching it's a disservice to both the player and the team. You have them for four years only to waste one year makes absolutely no sense. The scouts and draft personnel for this team will be the key to how long it takes to rebuild along with the Eli contract question. If Eli is making 18+ mil a year the rebuild could take more than 3-4 years. If we keep both Eli and TC and then have another loosing year then start rebuilding again with a new HC then that's another year wasted I think we have all seen enough of those.
He has played 7 less games than Bennett and has 7 more sacks and 100 more tackles.
It is going to take something in the Chris Long neighborhood (4-48 with 40% guaranteed). Want to argue that Longs deal was done before flat cap, fine. M. Johnson signd 5 years 43.5 16M guaranteed in 2014. JPP is a much better player
Put him on the other side
Heck... I'd sign him at $10m with that incentive
Never going to happen
Not bad for a guy who so far has less sacks in the last 3 seasons combined than he had in his 1 fantastic NFL season, and not bad for a guy who's back will always be a potential issue.
It's a fair contract and if he can get more, best of luck to him.
Thats $7m per year, he'll opt to test FA and somebody will definitely pay him more.
Sometimes you have to over-pay when you first sign a player, knowing that down the line when salaries go up (they do every year), it wouldnt be such a bad deal for the team overall.
JPP is an excellent run defender, probably the best in the league at his position. His sack numbers have also undoubtedly been affected by the lack of production at the other DE position. But his pass rush moves still seem limited, he has an injury history with his back, and there may be some questions regarding his commitment if he gets a big contract. It's enough to get me to say no to $8M, but even if the Giants are willing to pay it, somebody else will almost certainly pay a lot more.
Lamaar Houston and his 17 career sacks and less tackles just got 5-35 with 9M guaranteed. He is not good.
Carlos Dunlap just got 5 years and 39M w/ 11.7 guaranteed
Everson Griffen 5-42.5 19.8 guaranteed
Micheal Johnson 5--43.750 16.7 guaranteed
Junior Gallete - 40M extension w/16M guaranteed
JPP is not going to get less than the above players, as he is a much better player