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Eli needs to be extended this offseason....

kmed : 12/15/2014 9:20 am
He has proven, at least to me, that he's still a great NFL QB. He's not in the upper echelon in the NFL, but he's clearly someone we need for the next 3-4 years at a minimum. Great bounceback season and clearly last year was a disaster on all fronts, not just the QB. The system was terrible, the line was terrible, the running game was terrible, the weapons were non existent. With just slight improvements on all fronts, he's proven to be a very valuable piece moving. If we once again bolster the line a bit and maybe add a weapon, I expect this offense to be very, very good. Eli needs to be extended to lower his cap number, allow us to add other pieces and most importantly, ensure he's around for a while longer.
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The Giants cap situation is quite healthy  
Milton : 12/15/2014 10:31 am : link
There is no need to extend Eli. If he'd accept a team-friendly extension, great, but I wouldn't count on it. Chances are he's going to want something in the vicinity of what Flacco, Ryan, and Brees received, meaning 20+M/year with at least $40M guaranteed. Considering that the Giants have him under contract for $17M next year and the cost of franchising him in 2016 would be roughly $21M, there should be no rush to give him a deal that pays him more than that over the next two years.

Bottomline--the Giants won't be handcuffed by Eli's contract in 2015, so why commit stacks of guaranteed money to him when the future is uncertain.
QB contracts - ( New Window )
The  
Gmen4Life21 : 12/15/2014 10:32 am : link
media and fans of other teams I've takes to perceive that he's having 'another bad year,' after the 5 pick nationally televised game. Fact is, he's been good this year. was great at times such as games 2-5 until Cruz got hurt when the O started clicking. Overall a very solid year. The nonexistent run game when Jennings missed games has been the biggest problem, the personnel needs to be bolstered, the line of course.
RE: Did anyone watch Geno Smith or Charley Whitehurst?  
Milton : 12/15/2014 10:33 am : link
In comment 12035262 Headhunter said:
Quote:
You never realize what you have till it's gone and sometimes you wait decades to replace it. I'd give him a blank check and thank him for taking it
Why give him a blank check when it's cheaper to give him a check for $17M? Eli isn't going anywhere.
why?  
YAJ2112 : 12/15/2014 10:34 am : link
Because you don't let your franchise QB twist in the wind.
RE: why?  
mrvax : 12/15/2014 10:40 am : link
In comment 12035318 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
Because you don't let your franchise QB twist in the wind.


Not sure but Eli might feel it's a kick in the pants if they played through the $17M year.
RE: why?  
Milton : 12/15/2014 10:40 am : link
In comment 12035318 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
Because you don't let your franchise QB twist in the wind.
He's not twisting in the wind. He knows he's not going anywhere. And it's not like he'll be scrimping on Christmas and Hanukkah gifts this year because he's unsure about his future income.
If he gets hurt he gets nothing....  
Britt in VA : 12/15/2014 10:41 am : link
so it's leaving him twisting in the wind.

It's why guys hold out.

Eli's done everything asked of him and more. You don't leave guys like that hanging.
RE: RE: why?  
Milton : 12/15/2014 10:43 am : link
In comment 12035329 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 12035318 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


Because you don't let your franchise QB twist in the wind.



Not sure but Eli might feel it's a kick in the pants if they played through the $17M year.
I really don't think Eli is going to consider being paid $17M a sign of disrespect.
what Britt said  
YAJ2112 : 12/15/2014 10:44 am : link
.
20 million per year  
5J : 12/15/2014 10:46 am : link
is bullshit. we paid him for the super bowls. now he needs to fall back in line with a team friendly deal and take up a much lower percentage of the salary cap. their poor drafting, injuries and bad free agent signings have made it very tough to build a team with eli taking up this much cap space.
RE: 20 million per year  
YAJ2112 : 12/15/2014 10:48 am : link
In comment 12035344 5J said:
Quote:
is bullshit. we paid him for the super bowls. now he needs to fall back in line with a team friendly deal and take up a much lower percentage of the salary cap. their poor drafting, injuries and bad free agent signings have made it very tough to build a team with eli taking up this much cap space.


good luck with that
RE: If he gets hurt he gets nothing....  
Milton : 12/15/2014 10:51 am : link
In comment 12035333 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
so it's leaving him twisting in the wind.

It's why guys hold out.

Eli's done everything asked of him and more. You don't leave guys like that hanging.
Look, if Eli wants to accept a team-friendly deal, I'm sure the Giants would be open to giving him an extension. But I wouldn't necessarily anticipate that. I'm not saying it isn't possible that Eli will sign an extension, I'm just saying it's not something the Giants "need" to do (as the op opines).

With Eli under contract for 2015 and with the franchise tag an option for 2016, the Giants have the leverage in negotiations. And my guess is that Tom Condon would rather put his faith in Eli having a stellar 2015 and do his negotiating the following off-season when the leverage is more balanced.
Let the season play out  
AnnapolisMike : 12/15/2014 10:53 am : link
I think the next two games will be a pretty good measuring stick of where the team and Eli are right now. It is difficult to make much out of beating a really dysfunctional Washington team.

You just completely missed my point.  
Britt in VA : 12/15/2014 10:53 am : link
NO WAY does Condon want Eli playing his final year without an extension.
RE: 20 million per year  
Milton : 12/15/2014 10:53 am : link
In comment 12035344 5J said:
Quote:
is bullshit. we paid him for the super bowls. now he needs to fall back in line with a team friendly deal and take up a much lower percentage of the salary cap. their poor drafting, injuries and bad free agent signings have made it very tough to build a team with eli taking up this much cap space.
This is the misconception--that the Giants won't have the salary cap room to sign free agents because of Eli's contract. This is simply not the case.
He needs an extension this offseason  
YAJ2112 : 12/15/2014 10:54 am : link
You say you want him to sign a team/cap friendly deal, but then you are willing to let him play on the tag where he'll be a 21mm cap hit in 2016? That makes no sense.
RE: 20 million per year  
drkenneth : 12/15/2014 10:57 am : link
In comment 12035344 5J said:
Quote:
is bullshit. we paid him for the super bowls. now he needs to fall back in line with a team friendly deal and take up a much lower percentage of the salary cap. their poor drafting, injuries and bad free agent signings have made it very tough to build a team with eli taking up this much cap space.


So you first cite the team's poor drafting, injuries, and bad FA signings, but then say it's because of Eli's cap #.

Do you actually read what you write? People constantly bring up Eli's cap # (Which needs to be reduced), but the idea that it's handcuffing the team is simply not true.

Your statement is contradicting.
And the idea that Eli is going play 2015 without an extension  
drkenneth : 12/15/2014 11:00 am : link
is another one of BBI's most ridiculous thoughts.

People just don't understand how it works. Eli is getting extended, and he is going to get his money. Accept that fact.
RE: You just completely missed my point.  
Milton : 12/15/2014 11:00 am : link
In comment 12035367 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
NO WAY does Condon want Eli playing his final year without an extension.
I'm sure he'd love for Eli to get an extension paying him $20+M/year with $40+M guaranteed, but he doesn't get to tell the Giants what to do. And as you would say, there's NO WAY Condon wants Eli to take less than what Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan got.
RE: And the idea that Eli is going play 2015 without an extension  
Milton : 12/15/2014 11:02 am : link
In comment 12035393 drkenneth said:
Quote:
is another one of BBI's most ridiculous thoughts.

People just don't understand how it works. Eli is getting extended, and he is going to get his money. Accept that fact.
Apparently you're the one who doesn't understand how it works.
Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan are on their SECOND contracts....  
Britt in VA : 12/15/2014 11:03 am : link
and are both under the age of thirty. Equivalent to where Eli was when he got his SECOND contract in 2009.

The yearly values come into play, but the structures, incentives, and guaranteed money will be different.
Milton  
YAJ2112 : 12/15/2014 11:05 am : link
the Giants won't let their Head Coach be on the last year of his contract. You really think they will let their franchise QB?
he hasn't been great  
chris r : 12/15/2014 11:06 am : link
He's been average in a a QB friendly system. That is however an improvement over last year. Given his two SB runs, unless he's asking for elite QB money, I'd bring him back.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/15/2014 11:07 am : link
I'm surprised this is still a debate.
RE: ....  
Britt in VA : 12/15/2014 11:07 am : link
In comment 12035424 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I'm surprised this is still a debate.


People can't accept reality.
Milton....You sure?  
drkenneth : 12/15/2014 11:07 am : link
You really think they let Eli flounder? Stop it, you're being silly.
RE: he hasn't been great  
drkenneth : 12/15/2014 11:09 am : link
In comment 12035421 chris r said:
Quote:
He's been average in a a QB friendly system. That is however an improvement over last year. Given his two SB runs, unless he's asking for elite QB money, I'd bring him back.


Thanks for that. Glad you approve of "bringing back" the best QB in franchise history.

....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/15/2014 11:09 am : link
It's not even an unfortunate reality. Eli getting an extension is good. Eli would have had to have been 2013-like again to not receive one.

People are 'accepting' TC coming back (which I'm happy about), but I can see why that's not a great thing to some who want him gone. Eli getting an extension is very good.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/15/2014 11:10 am : link
That was in response to Britt.
RE: Milton  
Milton : 12/15/2014 11:12 am : link
In comment 12035415 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
the Giants won't let their Head Coach be on the last year of his contract. You really think they will let their franchise QB?
Head coach is different, because it goes to the message it sends to the locker room. Nobody is going to think Eli is a lame duck QB just because he's in the last year of his contract.

Bottomline--is that it takes two to tango and there are reasons why both sides would be reluctant to negotiate an extension at this time. It doesn't mean it won't happen, but it requires Eli accepting a team-friendly deal when he and his agent may believe they can get a better deal if they wait another year. It's not absolutely necessary that he sign an extension in order for the Giants to sign the free agents they target in the off-season.
RE: RE: Milton  
Britt in VA : 12/15/2014 11:16 am : link
In comment 12035452 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 12035415 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


the Giants won't let their Head Coach be on the last year of his contract. You really think they will let their franchise QB?

Head coach is different, because it goes to the message it sends to the locker room. Nobody is going to think Eli is a lame duck QB just because he's in the last year of his contract.

Bottomline--is that it takes two to tango and there are reasons why both sides would be reluctant to negotiate an extension at this time. It doesn't mean it won't happen, but it requires Eli accepting a team-friendly deal when he and his agent may believe they can get a better deal if they wait another year. It's not absolutely necessary that he sign an extension in order for the Giants to sign the free agents they target in the off-season.


First of all, the odds of Eli accepting a team friendly deal are low.

Secondly, both parties have a ton of reasons to do the extension now, so your notion that it benefits both parties to wait is false. Two examples: They wait, Eli has an awesome year, and then tells the Giants to eff off and leaves, or holds them over a barrel when they put the franchise tag on him. They wait, and Eli gets his leg Theiman'd and loses out on tens of millions of dollars that he left on the table because he put himself at risk.

You're right, his contract, extended or not, won't prevent the Giants from conducting their business. It is the not the anti team building albatross that has become popular opinion here.
You're right  
YAJ2112 : 12/15/2014 11:17 am : link
in that it has nothing to do with having room to sign other FAs.

But they still should and will do an extension this offseason. You can feel like they shouldn't, but they will.
Two things are for certian:  
Britt in VA : 12/15/2014 11:18 am : link
Eli will extend this offseason, and BBI will freak out over the details of the contract.

That's a stone cold, lead pipe lock.
Brady's contract is not what it seems.....  
Doomster : 12/15/2014 11:19 am : link
I can't wait until Brady's deal gets redone this offseason
YAJ2112 : 9:46 am : link : reply
so everyone will shut the fuck up about how he signed this "below market" contract.

It will either be redone/extended, or the present contract is part of an after career, wink, wink, deal where he gets a job in the front office..you know the one, where you don't have to show up and still get paid....



Why?
kmed : 9:46 am : link : reply
Are you arguing that Brady didn't sign a very team friendly deal?
Tom Brady giving the hometown discount isn't really true...
Britt in VA : 9:47 am : link : reply
I was reading this somewhere else, but his guaranteed money becomes 60 million dollars as long as he plays in the last regular season game this year, and he's 36.

Not really....that last 24 million is only guaranteed, IF HE IS INJURED.....they could actually cut him, and he gets none of that "guaranteed" money....though I seriously doubt that happens, which would result in 11M net, in dead money....But you have to remember one thing....the Pats are not afraid of releasing a player one year too early, rather than one year too late....if the Pats come up short again this season, and they think that Garapalo is an option for the future, nothing would surprise me with this organization.....it's possible, that Brady does not finish his contract with the Pats and ends up finishing his career elsewhere...it's happened to other greats.....If the Pats win a SB, that throws a wrench into the Pats future plans, as far as Brady and his contract, is concerned...



If Brady is relatively healthy at the start of next season, they will restructure him again.

It was creative cap work on their part, but he gets his money.


Basically, he signed a 14M/yr contract which is low when compared to Cutler, Stafford, and other pretenders to the throne....I find it hard to believe he continues to play for the same numbers....



He got more guaranteed money
kmed : 9:48 am : link : reply
which is fine, he deserves it, but he most certainly could have gotten more. He left money on the table for the good of the team and they gave a little back by guaranteeing more.

yes he left money on the table, and how did they help him? Where is that top WR he really needed?



So at the end of this season...
Britt in VA : 9:48 am : link : reply
Brady will have essentially played a 3 year, 60 million dollar guaranteed contract.

How do you come up with those numbers? This is only the second year of his present contract....he got 40M for 2 years....now, under the present contract, he will average 8M per year, for the next three years....AND IT IS ONLY GUARANTEED IF HE IS INJURED.....he can be cut, and not paid....



Imagine a run game
Rjanyg : 9:48 am : link : reply
to go with this passing game.
It's still 3 years at an average of 20 million per, guaranteed.

No it's not....


RE: Milton....You sure?  
Milton : 12/15/2014 11:22 am : link
In comment 12035426 drkenneth said:
Quote:
You really think they let Eli flounder? Stop it, you're being silly.
If he doesn't want to "flounder" he can sign a team-friendly extension. And maybe he will. I'm just saying it's not something that has to happen. None of us are in Eli's head and know what's important to him. We always think players make so much money, why should they care about a million dollars here or there, but they do. The Tom Brady contract was an outlier, not the beginning of a new trend, and who knows what the reasons were behind it. It would be great if Eli followed his lead, but I wouldn't go into the offseason expecting that to be the case. And I wouldn't expect the Giants to back up the Brinks truck for a player just because they don't want him to be "floundering" or "twisting in the wind." Not when the leverage is on their side.
next year  
djm : 12/15/2014 11:29 am : link
offensively could have a 2005 feel to it. We scored 400 plus that year.

I think the one elixir that takes this O to the next level is the stud RB. It's not as easy to find that guy as some would believe. We need one of those awesome talents at RB. This offense goes bonkers with that guy and a little more depth/talent on the OL. Add a solid player at WR, nothing out of this world just solid...maybe a blocking TE and we're off.

We don't need to allocate ridiculous resources along the OL and WR and TE, just shore up the weak spots with competent players. The RB position could use a big spark in my eyes.
Eli being re-signed  
djm : 12/15/2014 11:29 am : link
is a lock. We're fine at QB.
Deadspin did a good summary of the  
Britt in VA : 12/15/2014 11:30 am : link
Quote:
When we talk about an "extension" through 2017, we're really talking about the Patriots re-working the next two seasons of Brady's contract. This is actually a short-term raise for Brady—he had been set to make $19.5 million combined in 2013 and 2014. Now he will make $33 million. For a QB who will be 36 when the season starts, never underestimate the importance of getting guaranteed money, and getting it now. (And don't forget—the final three years of his deal are fully guaranteed against injury.)

It's a little creative accounting for the Patriots. Brady's huge bonuses can now be spread out over all five years of the deal. His cap hit, due to be nearly $21 million in 2013, will now be $13.8 million. The Patriots will have $15 million more to play with over the next two seasons, even as Brady pockets more money than he would have.

The thinking is more than a little reminiscent of the overlong contracts handed out in the NHL, with star players earning near-minimum well into their 40s. (The league later closed this loophole.) It's all about averaging the salary cap hit across the life of the contract, extending that divisor by tacking on years the player has no intention of playing.

But Brady doesn't have to retire to avoid playing at a discount in the final three years of his deal. NFL contracts, beyond bonuses, aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Brady and the Patriots can sit down again in two years and tear up what they've done, and if the past is any indication, that's exactly what will happen.

-Heading into 2005, Brady was scheduled to make $11.5 million over the next two seasons. The Patriots tossed it out and signed him to a six-year extension that would pay him $31.5 million over the same time frame, with most of that coming in the form of signing bonuses—again to lower his cap hit.

(Peter King wrote the exact same column in 2005, trumpeting Brady for being selfless and taking less money.)

-In 2007, Brady re-worked his contract, again shifting some of his base salary to bonuses. The point, this time, was to clear cap room to sign Randy Moss.

-In 2010 Brady signed an extension, again before his current deal had run its course. It included $48.5 million in guaranteed money and made Brady the NFL's highest-paid player.

-In 2012 Brady re-structured that deal, converting some salary to bonus money. The upshot was to save the Patriots cap room in 2012, at the expense of pushing it to 2013 and 2014.

Brady has re-worked his deal yet again, and the Patriots continue to pass the salary cap buck into the future. Now that bomb won't go off until 2015 at the earliest, assuming they don't re-do the deal again. (They will.) As teams like the Jets and Eagles are learning, salary cap accounting isn't magic—it's just borrowing against the future. The Patriots will end up paying the piper, but not until their Tom Brady window closes.


Actually, Tom Brady is Getting a Raise.... Deadspin 2/26/13 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: he hasn't been great  
chris r : 12/15/2014 11:36 am : link
In comment 12035433 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12035421 chris r said:


Quote:


He's been average in a a QB friendly system. That is however an improvement over last year. Given his two SB runs, unless he's asking for elite QB money, I'd bring him back.



Thanks for that. Glad you approve of "bringing back" the best QB in franchise history.


Glad you base your opinion of personnel moves of lifetime achievement awards rather than which decision will be best for the Giants moving forward.
RE: RE: RE: he hasn't been great  
drkenneth : 12/15/2014 11:37 am : link
In comment 12035564 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12035433 drkenneth said:


Quote:


In comment 12035421 chris r said:


Quote:


He's been average in a a QB friendly system. That is however an improvement over last year. Given his two SB runs, unless he's asking for elite QB money, I'd bring him back.



Thanks for that. Glad you approve of "bringing back" the best QB in franchise history.




Glad you base your opinion of personnel moves of lifetime achievement awards rather than which decision will be best for the Giants moving forward.


Eli is the best option moving forward. Do you not agree?
RE: Eli being re-signed  
snumber6 : 12/15/2014 12:10 pm : link
In comment 12035527 djm said:
Quote:
is a lock. We're fine at QB.


Eli and the Giants are both professionals when it comes to contracts ... The Giants will offer the market rate ... Eli will agree ... and the lawyers will structure it to give Eli financial security and the Giants to be protected in case of injury ... like and onside kick from the opponents 35 yard line ... a no brainer ...
RE: You just completely missed my point.  
AnishPatel : 12/15/2014 12:15 pm : link
In comment 12035367 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
NO WAY does Condon want Eli playing his final year without an extension.


That's the thing. Condon won't settle for less money, and I think Condon will push the Giants for an extension. I doubt Eli goes into next year, his contract year, without an extension.

chris r  
crick78 : 12/15/2014 12:21 pm : link
how has Eli's line been this year? You say Eli has been "average" in a qb friendly system, but fail to mention that he doesn't have qb friendly weapons excluding beckham
This whole thing would only be an issue.....  
BillKo : 12/15/2014 12:46 pm : link
had Eli not played well. That would have been two years of poor play, regardless of surrounding cast. Then the Giants would have an issue/decision.

Facts are, he's played very well and you can easily make the case he'll play even better (which is needed) with more support.

Of all Eli's physical attributes are all still there, and his mental approach to the game is second to none.

This is the team's easiest decision of the offseason.
Eli  
old man : 12/15/2014 1:02 pm : link
will do whatever it takes to help the team sign whatever help he can get NOT to get killed, but get another Ring.
Condon will do whatever he can to get Eli the most money.
Management will do whatever vit takes to fulfill their player and economic plan.
Somewhere in between all them is a number of years/guaranteed money/total cost that will satisy all parties.
RE: This whole thing would only be an issue.....  
Milton : 12/15/2014 1:46 pm : link
In comment 12035814 BillKo said:
Quote:
had Eli not played well. That would have been two years of poor play, regardless of surrounding cast. Then the Giants would have an issue/decision.

Facts are, he's played very well and you can easily make the case he'll play even better (which is needed) with more support.

Of all Eli's physical attributes are all still there, and his mental approach to the game is second to none.

This is the team's easiest decision of the offseason.
I would contend that the "whole thing would only be an issue" if the Giants didn't have room under the salary cap to make the moves they want to make in free agency. Since that's not the case, there is no pressure on them to throw a boatload of guaranteed money at Eli.

Will they sign him to an extension? Maybe. Is it a certainty? No.
didn't we have an 'insider' recently say Eli would take a paycut  
BigBlueCane : 12/15/2014 2:51 pm : link
if the money was used to strengthen the OL?
I didn't see that posted  
JonC : 12/15/2014 3:02 pm : link
One posted Eli's agent said he won't talk contract until the OL is upgraded. Can't say for certain the veracity of this poster's info, but he has gotten a couple things correct.

That poster was a clown  
Milton : 12/15/2014 3:19 pm : link
The idea that Tom Condon would go to the Giants and demand that they spend more money on the OL before he would let them spend more money on Eli is absolutely absurd. If he did, Mara would tell him to go fuck himself. The Giants don't take advice from agents on how to improve the team.
Brady  
stretch234 : 12/15/2014 5:51 pm : link
He did not take any discount. He is getting less money per year, but the entire contract became guaranteed and added years

33M Signing bonus + 2013 & 2104 salaries
24M Guaranteed 15-17 if he is on the roster last game of 2014
4M Guaranteed Roster Bonus 2103 & 2014
9.6M Guaranteed from previous restructure

70.6M guaranteed. His money is now all guaranteed through 2017

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