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I see dead money: 2015 NYG Edition

Big Blue Blogger : 12/16/2014 3:01 am
Or, "Ex-Giants who will continue to make their presence felt next year."

Nothing says cap hell at holiday time like big, front-loaded contracts for under-performing or retired players. Let's see where the Giants stand, entering the new year.

Start with the good news: The Giants are in relatively decent cap shape for 2015. The emphasis here is on relatively. They aren't the Raiders, Jaguars or Jets - with a third of their 2015 cap available - but hey, who wants to be the Raiders, Jaguars or Jets? Further, the Giants aren't carrying any truly disastrous contracts into 2015. Eli Manning eats a big chunk of the cap, but in a world where Alex Smith gets $45MM in guaranteed money, Eli barely registers as an issue.

So, where's the bad news on the dead-money front? Let's start with what we know...

GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN

David Baas ($3.225MM). 20-20 hindsight suggests the Giants should have taken the full hit in 2014 and, say, passed on Walter Thurmond. But it's not in the organization's DNA to write off a year. Longer-range hindsight suggests that restructuring Baas's contract was a huge mistake.

David Wilson ($0.825MM). Not much to say here. The kid gave it his best shot.

Mathias Kiwanuka ($2.65MM). The Giants retained Kiwi in 2014, at a drastically-reduced salary, largely because of his $5.3MM dead-money load from a puzzling restructure. The number is still significant, but it won't keep him on the team again.

THE CAP REHAB UNIT

Jon Beason ($3.833MM). Unless Beason gives ground on a $2.2MM roster bonus, he could be an early cap casualty. Although the injuries that ruined his 2014 are not career-threatening in themselves, his history is alarming. Beason's agent (himself, no?) is notoriously accommodating, so an arrangement is likely unless the Giants decide to cut bait.

Victor Cruz ($5.7MM). Unlike Beason, there's no hurry with Cruz - a good thing, because his injury is much more severe. The likelihood of him being cut is close to zero. His $6.15MM salary, however, could be dead money of a different sort if he starts 2015 on the PUP list.

Geoff Schwartz ($3.4MM). Unless there's reason to think his foot problems are chronic, Schwartz gets his $500K in off-season money and a spot in the 2015 lineup.

Steve Weatherford ($1.75MM). Weatherford appeared to be on the downside of his career before the ankle injury. After enduring the 2009 edition of Jeff Feagles, then botching a rushed transition to rookie Matt Dodge, the Giants might choose to pull the trigger a year early rather than a year late. Weatherford will be in camp, but don't be surprised if he faces real competition.

Others: Cullen Jenkins ($0.667MM) may have accumulated enough scratches and dents to no longer be worth $2.2MM, but he'll probably be in camp unless he retires. Several other banged-up vets like Rashad Jennings and Robert Ayers aren't worth discussing because they should be fine by next year and figure to play significant roles. Trumaine McBride's $50K dead-money load doesn't even register as a blip, so the $500K he's due during the off-season might make him a cap casualty.

UNDERPERFORMERS

J.D. Walton ($0.625MM). Eager as we may be to hand his job to Weston Richburg, expect to see Walton in camp. He has no off-season bonus money coming, and there's no downside to keeping him around until the final cuts as insurance. At that point, if he hasn't reclaimed a spot in the starting lineup, the Giants can decide whether he's worth $2.25MM as a backup.

Others: Rueben Randle ($0.209MM), Jayron Hosley ($0.129MM), Adrien Robinson ($0.96MM) and Brandon Mosley ($0.075MM) round out a frustrating 2012 draft class that might be gone with the wind. There's little reason not to bring them to camp, though, and all but Hosley have a reasonable chance of sticking.

Overall, the dead money outlook isn't bad. The Baas situation is unfortunate, Wilson even more so; and the team has a lot riding on the efforts of the surgeons at HSS.
By the way, I skipped four of the top five dead-money numbers.  
Big Blue Blogger : 12/16/2014 3:15 am : link
Rodgers-Cromartie, Beckham and Pugh are obviously going nowhere. Beatty seems to have re-established himself at OLT, though he will never be a fan favorite. Maybe he should grow a big beard, add a paunch and draw a few personal foul penalties to show that he has the requisite mean streak.
BBB  
VanPelt/Manning#10 : 12/16/2014 4:18 am : link
Thanks for an informative and lively post. I wonder if Optimus has anything to add to this.
We don't have a single  
kepler20 : 12/16/2014 4:42 am : link
not one quality LBer on this team. Not beason, McClain, or quite frankly even kennard.

If kennard proves he can play in space and isn't strictly a 3rd down lber then I guess he can "start" in base packages.
What about  
OldPolack : 12/16/2014 7:15 am : link
TE?
Kepler20  
Rjanyg : 12/16/2014 7:21 am : link
Really? Kennard is not a viable LB? He is by fat the best Young LB we have drafted since Jesse Armstead. He is smart, versatile and has good size. nd I'm not saying we don't need some Other LB's but to say he is not a LB is rediculous.
RE: What about  
Enoch : 12/16/2014 7:24 am : link
In comment 12037030 OldPolack said:
Quote:
TE?

I don't think the Giants have any TEs under contract for 2015. Donnell will be an ERFA.
RE: We don't have a single  
mrvax : 12/16/2014 7:35 am : link
In comment 12037010 kepler20 said:
Quote:
not one quality LBer on this team. Not beason, McClain, or quite frankly even kennard.

If kennard proves he can play in space and isn't strictly a 3rd down lber then I guess he can "start" in base packages.


Not only does Kennard appear to be a 3 down LB, Beason is better than average if he's healthy. We can certainly use more talent at LB though.
Giants will make...  
2ndroundKO : 12/16/2014 7:37 am : link
a Herculean effort to sign JPP and rightfully so. What kind of message do you send to your young players when you don't pay a 25-year-old elite player who was so huge in winning a Super Bowl, has fought through injuries, and been a cornerstone of the D, putting up Pro-Bowl #'s while playing nearly every snap? JPP and the Giants will come to terms.
RE: We don't have a single  
section125 : 12/16/2014 7:38 am : link
In comment 12037010 kepler20 said:
Quote:
not one quality LBer on this team. Not beason, McClain, or quite frankly even kennard.

If kennard proves he can play in space and isn't strictly a 3rd down lber then I guess he can "start" in base packages.


Wrong dare I say, again.
Good god  
kepler20 : 12/16/2014 7:54 am : link
some of you must be just plain stupid.

Kennard had exclusively been used on pass rush situations. He hasn't been asked to drop into coverage or to play man against a TE. If it turns out that he cannot play in space, that does not make him a starter.

McClain has zero big play ability. Does tackling a guy after a 7 yard gain equate to production? He's the definition of a player whose below average but good enough to consistently look not bad. He's basically the new chase Blackburn.

Beason? Please. This is what happens to football players. They get old, and the injuries start piling up. Depending on this guy is the exact same mistake this organization made (and will make) with Diehl, Snee, Webster, TT, etc.


We have ZERO, none, LBers that are worthy of starting in the NFL.
LOL  
Sammo284 : 12/16/2014 8:01 am : link
If Beason is healthy?

He hasn't been healthy in over 5 years now.
RE: Good god  
map7711 : 12/16/2014 8:11 am : link
In comment 12037048 kepler20 said:
Quote:
some of you must be just plain stupid.

Kennard had exclusively been used on pass rush situations. He hasn't been asked to drop into coverage or to play man against a TE. If it turns out that he cannot play in space, that does not make him a starter.

McClain has zero big play ability. Does tackling a guy after a 7 yard gain equate to production? He's the definition of a player whose below average but good enough to consistently look not bad. He's basically the new chase Blackburn.

Beason? Please. This is what happens to football players. They get old, and the injuries start piling up. Depending on this guy is the exact same mistake this organization made (and will make) with Diehl, Snee, Webster, TT, etc.


We have ZERO, none, LBers that are worthy of starting in the NFL.


Carl Banks loves the kid. I think he might know a thing or two about playing LB in the NFL.
RE: We don't have a single  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 12/16/2014 8:36 am : link
In comment 12037010 kepler20 said:
Quote:
not one quality LBer on this team. Not beason, McClain, or quite frankly even kennard.

If kennard proves he can play in space and isn't strictly a 3rd down lber then I guess he can "start" in base packages.


This is one of the more stupid posts I've seen in a while.
RE: RE: We don't have a single  
PEEJ : 12/16/2014 8:39 am : link
In comment 12037100 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
In comment 12037010 kepler20 said:


Quote:


not one quality LBer on this team. Not beason, McClain, or quite frankly even kennard.

If kennard proves he can play in space and isn't strictly a 3rd down lber then I guess he can "start" in base packages.



This is one of the more stupid posts I've seen in a while.


The day isn't over yet !
It isn't dead money if they are still on the team  
BillT : 12/16/2014 8:41 am : link
Most of the guys you listed will be on the Giants next year and the questionable ones like Holsey have tiny numbers.
Borrowing money from the future  
fkap : 12/16/2014 8:44 am : link
is, broadly speaking, eagerly sought out around here. And then, when it's time to pay the piper, often disparaged.

Baas is a perfect example. There were very few of us who wanted to take the hit in one year. We weren't in a one year rebuild mode (and still aren't), and we weren't desperate for money. Now, 2015 cap is reduced by several mil
kepler if there was any doubt you are a clueless blowhard  
Headhunter : 12/16/2014 8:49 am : link
you removed it forever with your Kennard comment. Kennard is going to be a cornerstone from everything I've read from comments within the organization
fkap  
JonC : 12/16/2014 9:02 am : link
Your point is well-made, per usual, but at least the examples are few. A handful of millions in dead space is pretty decent on the whole, imv. Perhaps not optimal but in the grand scheme of things, it's reasonable.

It will be very interesting to see whom they choose to cut bait on after this season, we'll need every dime to re-sign the players we want to keep and try to fill some holes via UFA.
BillT: True, that.  
Big Blue Blogger : 12/16/2014 9:06 am : link
At this point, the actual 2015 dead money is limited to Baas, Wilson and a few non-factors like Bennett Jackson, whose small signing bonus accelerated into 2015 whan he was cut, even though the Giants kept him in the building. I was peeking ahead at the dead money outlook.
ehhh  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/16/2014 9:07 am : link
there were a few of us who chimed in that extending Baas and Kiwanuka at the time was a dubious proposition.
fkap: Most recent restructures haven't worked out well for the Giants.  
Big Blue Blogger : 12/16/2014 9:12 am : link
Kiwanuka, Snee and Baas come to mind. That doesn't mean restructuring is inherently bad. But when a player gets new money as an incentive to add years and reduce his near-term cap number, then grows a fork out of his back, the hit can be pretty ugly.
So basically, as I read it, we have roughly $14Million  
gidiefor : Mod : 12/16/2014 9:21 am : link
in dead money going into 2015, without factoring Cruz into the mix.

Hey that's really not that painful. Could we use the money? Obviously, but every team has dead money going into the next season $14 million seems low considering we have 20 guys on IR.

Bass's dead money is not tied to Thurmond  
WillieYoung : 12/16/2014 9:25 am : link
When the season started we were under the cap by Bass's 2015 dead money number so we could have carried the money over to 2015 without any Bass hit next year. (The decision to defer would have been meaningless). Unfortunately' we have over 25,000,000 of our 2014 cap number now on injured reserve and the signings during the season ate up all but $500,000 of the 2014 cap savings.
Willie Young: Agreed - they didn't need Baas money to sign Thurmond.  
Big Blue Blogger : 12/16/2014 9:38 am : link
I was indulging a gratuitous, 20-20 hindsight observation: Considering the way things turned out, paying the piper on Baas would have been a better use of $3MM 2014 cap dollars than signing Thurmond. I actually liked the Thurmond signing very much at the time.
RE: kepler if there was any doubt you are a clueless blowhard  
kepler20 : 12/16/2014 9:40 am : link
In comment 12037120 Headhunter said:
Quote:
you removed it forever with your Kennard comment. Kennard is going to be a cornerstone from everything I've read from comments within the organization


Next preseason will be huge for kennard. I hope he starts and they force him to play in space. We all know by now he's a OLB who can play in the dirt on third and 2nd + long. The next question is can he turn+ burn and play on first down in space?
Great post!  
GFL in WV : 12/16/2014 9:44 am : link
Very informative, thank you!
Blue Blogger  
WillieYoung : 12/16/2014 9:48 am : link
great thread. I wasn't trying to be critical.
RE: BBB  
Optimus-NY : 12/16/2014 1:16 pm : link
In comment 12037007 VanPelt/Manning#10 said:
Quote:
Thanks for an informative and lively post. I wonder if Optimus has anything to add to this.


Gimmee a couple of days and I'll write something up. I'm busy teaching and planning lessons right now before the winter break unfortunately.
Good to see cap discussion arond here  
Optimus-NY : 12/16/2014 1:18 pm : link
A key will be to determine who won't fit the direction of the team going forward the next couple of years (i.e., Rolle, JPP, Jenkins, and Walton off the top of my head).
RE: Good god  
speedywheels : 12/16/2014 1:30 pm : link
In comment 12037048 kepler20 said:
Quote:
some of you must be just plain stupid.


You might want to look in the mirror there, tough guy...
On making Baas post-June-1  
Enoch : 12/16/2014 1:38 pm : link
I think it was just for flexibility. The CBA allows unused cap space to be carried forward, so using the post-June-1 designation, but reserving that pushed-forward money in the current year (i.e., ending the year with free cap space equivalent to the "savings") is basically the same as doing a traditional release.

Unfortunately, injuries forced the team to use up all of their "cushion" with in-season transactions.
BBB is looking at the glass half empty...  
GloryDayz : 12/16/2014 6:43 pm : link
But if you look at the glass half full... Cutting Kiwi ($2.625m) and Beason ($3.833m) will cost the Giants in dead money, but if thats what the Giants decide to do (Kiwi most probably gone, Beason who knows), it would also lead to a nett savings in cap.

Dead money isnt a good thing obviously, but as pointed out by BBB Giants are in a decent cap situation.

Cap projected to be around $140m in 2015. Giants cap number is around $122.5m. That includes Baas' dead money, and with Eli w/o an extension ($19.75m cap). It doesnt include JPP and Rolle (I think Giants gain an additional $700K when JPP voids 2015). Thats as good a cap situation the Giants have been in, in quite a while.

Possible Cuts:
Kiwi: Total 2015 Cap $7.45m, Dead Money $2.625m, Cap Savings $4.825m
Beason: Total 2015 Cap $7.367m, Dead Money $3.833m, Cap Savings $3.533m
Walton: Total 2015 Cap $3.125m, Dead Money $0.625m, Cap Savings $2.500m
Hillis: Total 2015 Cap $0.95m, Dead Money NONE, Cap Savings $0.95mm

If the Giants cut those 4 players, thats $11.8m in cap savings.

I think if the Giants like the players that actually do hit FA, they can sign a few good players.
Nice write-up and very informative  
montanagiant : 12/16/2014 6:57 pm : link
Thanks
RE: Good god  
pjcas18 : 12/16/2014 6:59 pm : link
In comment 12037048 kepler20 said:
Quote:
some of you must be just plain stupid.

Kennard had exclusively been used on pass rush situations. He hasn't been asked to drop into coverage or to play man against a TE. If it turns out that he cannot play in space, that does not make him a starter.

McClain has zero big play ability. Does tackling a guy after a 7 yard gain equate to production? He's the definition of a player whose below average but good enough to consistently look not bad. He's basically the new chase Blackburn.

Beason? Please. This is what happens to football players. They get old, and the injuries start piling up. Depending on this guy is the exact same mistake this organization made (and will make) with Diehl, Snee, Webster, TT, etc.


We have ZERO, none, LBers that are worthy of starting in the NFL.


I'm not saying what Kennard is or isn't but this is one of the worst posts I've read in a while. Look what Belichick did with Donta Hightower, or look at someone like Brandon Spikes (now in Buffalo). Neither of them have the pass rush ability Kennard does, but both look like run stuffing demons and Hightower developed good coverage skills. But Spikes and LB's like him absolutely cannot cover a TE, but because of that to you they're not starting LB's? Ok. that's just flat out dumb.

And another Pats LB, Jamie Collins is an absolute pass rush beast who I wouldn't want covering a RB or TE.

But all of them are not only starting LB's but excellent starting LB's.

And for the record PFF grades Kennard as positive in pass rush, run D and in coverage
RE: RE: Good god  
kepler20 : 12/16/2014 9:04 pm : link
In comment 12038462 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 12037048 kepler20 said:


Quote:


some of you must be just plain stupid.

Kennard had exclusively been used on pass rush situations. He hasn't been asked to drop into coverage or to play man against a TE. If it turns out that he cannot play in space, that does not make him a starter.

McClain has zero big play ability. Does tackling a guy after a 7 yard gain equate to production? He's the definition of a player whose below average but good enough to consistently look not bad. He's basically the new chase Blackburn.

Beason? Please. This is what happens to football players. They get old, and the injuries start piling up. Depending on this guy is the exact same mistake this organization made (and will make) with Diehl, Snee, Webster, TT, etc.


We have ZERO, none, LBers that are worthy of starting in the NFL.



I'm not saying what Kennard is or isn't but this is one of the worst posts I've read in a while. Look what Belichick did with Donta Hightower, or look at someone like Brandon Spikes (now in Buffalo). Neither of them have the pass rush ability Kennard does, but both look like run stuffing demons and Hightower developed good coverage skills. But Spikes and LB's like him absolutely cannot cover a TE, but because of that to you they're not starting LB's? Ok. that's just flat out dumb.

And another Pats LB, Jamie Collins is an absolute pass rush beast who I wouldn't want covering a RB or TE.

But all of them are not only starting LB's but excellent starting LB's.

And for the record PFF grades Kennard as positive in pass rush, run D and in coverage


Point out exactly where I said he couldnt develop into any of those things.


Kennard so far has exclusively been used to play on the line in pass rush situations.

That means he's a situational player; he's part time.

I said that next year we need to see if he can play in space; and if he can, that makes him a starter.


Now, please point to where exactly I said Kennard couldnt do those things.


good, god.
What makes Kennard look good,  
Doomster : 12/16/2014 10:22 pm : link
is he makes plays, an average linebacker SHOULD make, when given the opportunity.....this looks good, because guys like Herz and Paysinger can't, and because McClain is so slow....

Kennard has missed a few plays too....how the heck he missed RGIII in the backfield, on the play RGIII stiff armed Rolle, is beyond me.....he let McCoy get 20 yards to the outside by not being aggressive, he hesitated and allowed the OLman engage him...
RE: RE: RE: Good god  
pjcas18 : 12/17/2014 9:46 pm : link
In comment 12038609 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 12038462 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 12037048 kepler20 said:


Quote:


some of you must be just plain stupid.

Kennard had exclusively been used on pass rush situations. He hasn't been asked to drop into coverage or to play man against a TE. If it turns out that he cannot play in space, that does not make him a starter.

McClain has zero big play ability. Does tackling a guy after a 7 yard gain equate to production? He's the definition of a player whose below average but good enough to consistently look not bad. He's basically the new chase Blackburn.

Beason? Please. This is what happens to football players. They get old, and the injuries start piling up. Depending on this guy is the exact same mistake this organization made (and will make) with Diehl, Snee, Webster, TT, etc.


We have ZERO, none, LBers that are worthy of starting in the NFL.



I'm not saying what Kennard is or isn't but this is one of the worst posts I've read in a while. Look what Belichick did with Donta Hightower, or look at someone like Brandon Spikes (now in Buffalo). Neither of them have the pass rush ability Kennard does, but both look like run stuffing demons and Hightower developed good coverage skills. But Spikes and LB's like him absolutely cannot cover a TE, but because of that to you they're not starting LB's? Ok. that's just flat out dumb.

And another Pats LB, Jamie Collins is an absolute pass rush beast who I wouldn't want covering a RB or TE.

But all of them are not only starting LB's but excellent starting LB's.

And for the record PFF grades Kennard as positive in pass rush, run D and in coverage



Point out exactly where I said he couldnt develop into any of those things.


Kennard so far has exclusively been used to play on the line in pass rush situations.

That means he's a situational player; he's part time.

I said that next year we need to see if he can play in space; and if he can, that makes him a starter.


Now, please point to where exactly I said Kennard couldnt do those things.


good, god.


you said the giants have zero linebackers worthy of starting in the NFL.

For a 5th round pick rookie to do what Kennard has done with limited starting experience, I think any conclusions about him at this point are ludicrous.

good god.
kepler  
Sonic Youth : 12/17/2014 10:12 pm : link
You said earlier that Kennard was not a quality nfl player. People here are basically saying that isn't an accurate statement up to this point, as it hasn't been proven one way or the other, and he has shown promise.

I don't see why you are being so insanely condescending and douchebaggish over such a reasonable stance from others.
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