Re-watched Giants Skins and came away with this observation

say Wynn consistently pressure the passer. Where he stood out is he was the one end we had who stayed disciplined and watched for the QB boot in his direction. Because of that, he "pressured" the passer by not getting fooled and forced Griffin to throw.

True. He was very disciplined. He played well. I know they are young but the big thing is they both followed the play and make tackles away from the line of scrimmage. They both had a big impact on the game.

what I liked is that he hustled.

How did he look upon second review?

I like the fact they hustle too Eric. Both are young and well all we can do is hope they are true Blue real and ready for this weekend and beyond.

When JPP told my friend Mike in Hoboken that the Giants "quit" against Seattle I was really taken aback. It felt like they quit on the team, coaches and fans. Now I am wondering if they just quit under that day's circumstances. They just could not man up despite the fact Seattle was not at full strength either.

They just seem to have motors that never stop. Moore made a hustle tackle on Alfred Morris that could have gone for a lot of yardage. Both he and Wynn made tackles that made you wonder where the heck did they come from. I don't know if Fewell will be back but it sure does not make him look very smart buy shelving these two guys for so long when you see the way they play.

the problem is that TC and his staff have valued guys who are veterans that supposedly don't make the "rookie mistakes" (you know of learning how to play the game better) ala Moore's holding penalty on the RB going out into the flat.


the problem with that is this isn't 1980 and players learn better by playing and making some mistakes but letting your guys with more talent FUCKING PLAY AND MAKE FUCKING PLAYS...

that has been one of my biggest gripes. not playing certain players valuing veteran-ism over them even if the ceiling is way higher with a rookie type player but he sits because he isn't "READY" as he would put

FUCK THAT

don't play dogshit if you know its dogshit... I'm looking at you KIWI... let a guy who will make mistakes, but learn on the job that has a chance of actually doing something on the field instead of just being a blob of shit all day every day out there but "knows his assignment" fuuuuuuuuuuuuk that

They are young and going to make mistakes. I thought the holding call on Moore was dubious at best. And to tell you the truth, I can live with the occasional mistake if they are going to bring it the way they do. How can you not play them. Their energy is off the charts.

Jerrel Jernigan showed some promise at the end of the season, which led ownership to question why he wasn't on the field earlier and more often. This year, it's Moore. I wonder if ownership will come out and claim the defense is "broken".

it all points toward Coughlin.

you can't just automatically bench a veteran like Kiwi and hand Moore or Wynn his job

Coughlin probably errs on the side of sticking with vets too long but that's the way he coaches. So, if he is your coach, that is the way it is going to be.

Plus, it probably has positive effects in the locker room that we as fans are not privy to

and there are negative psychological effects to that too...people who know they will stick past poor play can get complacent and or lazy, younger guys can get resentful and stop trying as hard knowing they cant get a fair shake

the bottom line is that the good has to outweigh the bad and right now and where the Giants have been for three seasons...the bad is outweighing the good on this philosophy


In comment 12038515 oipolloi said:

Quote:

you can't just automatically bench a veteran like Kiwi and hand Moore or Wynn his job Coughlin probably errs on the side of sticking with vets too long but that's the way he coaches. So, if he is your coach, that is the way it is going to be. Plus, it probably has positive effects in the locker room that we as fans are not privy to

Why not. Kiwi has done shit and Moore has shown signs with blocked punts and the few times they played him he was always around the ball.

Two step,

Well said, this has been happening for years. TC has final say on who plays.

Fewell has taken a very different approch the last 3 games.

On one hand, we're completely discounting the fact that the Giants' coaches deserve credit since the team is now 4th in the league in sacks because 22 of them came in the last three games against scrubs. But on the other hand those sacks count towards validating our belief that the Giants' coaches deserve to be blamed for not making a personnel change earlier.

So everyone believes that a healthy Kiki and Ayers wouldn't have gotten any sacks or pressure these last two games, right?

has talent,,,it's obvious. He's not Jernigan.We have not done a good in developing younger guys....these two, Wynn and Moore should finish out the year as starters.if they work out and Ayers is healthy next year you have some depth there.

was the best d line player on the team when he got hurt.

He was the past pass rusher before he got hurt. But what would this defensive line have looked like witht the additions of Moore and Wynn playing moor significant minutes along withAyers and JPP. every time time they get to to the passer you see Moore circling in behind from his outside spot as the other side and middle continue to push forward. That is a deadly combination.

I was distracted by my wife.

Semi PF is much more aggressive lately.

it looks like John Mara was dead wrong about Jerrel Jerngian because he was given every chance in the world and failed miserably.

And again, TC and his staff have largely played rookies when they are any good.

The guys a lot of BBI'ers bitch about never end up doing much in the NFL after they leave the team.

there are people on this thread who are saying the undrafted rookie from the University of Richmond - a guy who didn't exactly light it up in the preseason too - should have been starting at defensive end in the first half of the season?

Jernigan was injured in week 2.

In comment 12038660 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

And again, TC and his staff have largely played rookies when they are any good.

I think Williams saw action because Giants were weak at the position, not because he was good. Ditto for Richburg at guard.

So, in some cases rookies play out of necessity. I do think that people have a point about Moore, though. He should have been getting more snaps.

and he did absolutely nothing throughout camp and the preseason, even when playing with Manning. They put him on IR with a mid-foot sprain.

he didn't play Williams out of necessity. He could have Hillis. Williams was clearly ahead of him from the get-go. In fact, many BBI'ers were complaining that Hillis should have been ahead of Williams.

That's not what I meant if that's what you read into it. But clearly the kid plays hard and you yourself said he was disciplined in containment. All I am saying is why did it take so long for him to get this opportunity Why wasn't he give more of a chance as well as Moore? And to tell you truth Wynn caught my eye in preseason.

I realize there was a veteran presence in place but let's be honest, not a lot was happening. Suddenly it's like wildfire out there. JPP is going bonkers and Hankins who has played great all year seems to have taken it to another level. So what is the difference?

In comment 12038730 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

and he did absolutely nothing throughout camp and the preseason, even when playing with Manning. They put him on IR with a mid-foot sprain.

The whole offense did nothing throughout camp and the preseason.

Lysfranc injury is serious one. At that point of season Eli was playing like shit.

has done great work getting young, unheralded, but talented, players on the field. Making contributions. Certainly there has not been enough to beat the good teams. But was that expected? I favor bringing everybody back. W-L records are absolute in one sense, relative in another. The record will suck again, and that is for the books. But there is hope being provided by guys who were developed and prepared by an excellent staff. If Mara forces Reese to can the staff, under no circumstances do I see a different HC & his staff outperform these guys.

In comment 12038743 blueblood'11 said:

Quote:

That's not what I meant if that's what you read into it. But clearly the kid plays hard and you yourself said he was disciplined in containment. All I am saying is why did it take so long for him to get this opportunity Why wasn't he give more of a chance as well as Moore? And to tell you truth Wynn caught my eye in preseason. I realize there was a veteran presence in place but let's be honest, not a lot was happening. Suddenly it's like wildfire out there. JPP is going bonkers and Hankins who has played great all year seems to have taken it to another level. So what is the difference?

The difference is the lack of talent on the oppositions Offensive line. The majority of JPP's success on Sunday came against a back up. I agree that we are seeing way more energy but I attribut that more to the fact that our guys are enjoying a little success.

And doesn't cover all rookies.
If you are a young talent that make mistakes.... You will not get better via practice in today's nfl. As there is no love practice. You need to play and play a lot.... Because he is talented.
Just because Steve smith was a heady player as a rookie and played doesn't mean our Hc plays rookies or doesn't.

The issue is he doesn't understand the concept until it's generally forced upon him that guys improve in today's nfl by playing not by sitting.... So for Moore he needs reps to cure his mental farts.

Tc and fewell made a bad judgement playing kiwi too much. That is a fact not an opinion. Moore needed more reps to improve and it wouldn't have been at any cost as kiwi is a bad football player at this stage for the giants

who has a multi million $ contract for a rookie unless he is injured.