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What is the rational for keeping Coughlin?

Essex : 12/16/2014 11:24 pm
Two weeks ago, most on this site felt that it was time for a change. How does beating the worst team in football and playing a mediocre game against RGIII and the woeful Redskins change the equation? The bottom line this team hasn't played good football since the Dallas game in 2012 (away). We have missed the playoffs 5 of 6 years. Every year, we blame it on a coordinator. The defense has been atrocious this year and the offense not nearly as bad, but not very good either. At what point is the HC responsible for this mess.

And, to the people who will blame Reese, remember when we won Super Bowls, we didn't really light up the regular season. The only regular season in over a decade that we did really well was 2008(maybe you can count 05). The 2 Super Bowls matter, but it isn't like the record was so good that you can just excuse three bad seasons. My fear is just like last year, we will be having the same conversations next year as we have had this year and last. It is time for a change.
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You lost me at.....  
nicky43 : 12/17/2014 9:14 am : link
"Two weeks ago, most on this site felt that it was time for a change."

You can't possibly justify that statement and even if you could, you can't be certain the change people wanted was for the HC to change. I want Reece to get the axe because he is the idiot whose task was to fix the oline in the off season.
Now I'll ask YOU....Does the oline look fixed to you???

If your answer is yes, you're an idiot! If not, then tell me that you believe that you expect this team could have won a lot more games with a different HC with the same amount of KEY injuries we have had to endure all while learning a new offense with an oline that is clearly just as bad as last year. Because if you believe that then you're still NUTS!

Bottom line. My rational for keeping TC is because:
A) He is still one of the best coaches the NFL has ever had.
B) He has not lost the team
C) He has more energy and determination and dedication to his craft than most 40 year olds.
D) No coach could have done better with the amount of key injuries this team has had this year while learning a new offense with a completely third string O-Line.

See item D again!

See item D again!



When it happens to three teams..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/17/2014 9:14 am : link
and people make that an expectation, then I might as well expect to win the lottery since thousands of people have.

I think Montreal Man summed it up very well. Plain and simple, TC stays because he has the leadership to coach and you don't want to risk bringing in a new guy who will change the OC and install a different system AGAIN.

It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario anyway. After this year, TC will have had 2 losing seasons since 2004, even though many of the years were missed playoff years. Contrast that with the Pats and Colts and Packers, who have made the playoffs many times, but still have less SB wins than we do in that frame.

My take is that fans would still bitch if we were the Colts by saying TC should win the big game more often since we are in the playoffs each year.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/17/2014 9:19 am : link
Coaches should be fired when they consistently miss expectations by wide margins.

I thought last year and 2009 were the only years where we had a wide deviation from expected play - and last year, I widely overestimated the talent of the team. This year, I expected a below .500 record. Hard to get mad at Coughlin for not taking a shitty roster to the playoffs.
22 players on IR may have something to do with it.  
BeerFridge : 12/17/2014 9:26 am : link
.
Many idiots on this thread  
chuckydee9 : 12/17/2014 9:42 am : link
he is here cause he is a good coach.. No matter how your BS stats show.. He has 2 superbowls.. Niether team were insanely talented.. he can and will win again once he gets talent.. There is nothing that shows otherwise.. Talent + TC = good season.. This can't be said about 90% of the head coaches in the league..
RE: When it happens to three teams..  
chuckydee9 : 12/17/2014 9:43 am : link
In comment 12039017 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and people make that an expectation, then I might as well expect to win the lottery since thousands of people have.

I think Montreal Man summed it up very well. Plain and simple, TC stays because he has the leadership to coach and you don't want to risk bringing in a new guy who will change the OC and install a different system AGAIN.

It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario anyway. After this year, TC will have had 2 losing seasons since 2004, even though many of the years were missed playoff years. Contrast that with the Pats and Colts and Packers, who have made the playoffs many times, but still have less SB wins than we do in that frame.

My take is that fans would still bitch if we were the Colts by saying TC should win the big game more often since we are in the playoffs each year.


the three guys that you named also have all world QB on thier teams and all 3 combined have less superbowls wins that TC since 2007..Think about that for a while..
If Eli wanted Coughlin gone  
Zebra3 : 12/17/2014 10:08 am : link
He would be. Last year they decided this would be a rebuilding year. They hired McAdoo to put in an offense more QB and WR friendly. Gilbride was sacrificed and the plan was coughlin coach the next two years and then Mac take over having installed and changed the offensive staff to his guys.

This offseason Fewell will go and his staff as the sacrifice. My guess is Spags is brought back or even a choice influenced by Mac. Next year is also a rebuild year. It's 2016-17 the team is looking at as the big years.
Coughlin leaves after next season. Reese adds on to the core Oline in the draft and FA on the cheap. He has to hit on at least one blue chip OL guy in the draft. RG or RT unless a blue chip LT falls in his hands.

Facts are the team is rebuilding in coaching staff too.
Please Mr Mara get rid of Fewell and Quinn.
What is the rationale for not bringing him back?  
NYGmen58 : 12/17/2014 10:23 am : link
There is no heir apparent on the staff that is ready to be promoted as a HC and it would be counterproductive to replace Tom with a less competent or experienced HC just for the sake of "making a change".

It is certainly a difficult decision whether to keep Coughlin.  
FatHeadTommy : 12/17/2014 10:23 am : link
Like most of you, I am torn. But the bottom line for me is this. With the exception of the two Super Bowl runs - and believe me I understand how huge an exception that is because those play-off runs were spectacular - this team has been miserable for a long time. We haven't made the play-offs in years and even in the years we went to the Super Bowls, the regular seasons themselves were horrible and frustrating. I remember being livid and giving up completely, thinking that Coughlin should be fired a number of times before we squeaked into the play-offs and then made the Super Bowls. You must remember that.

I am just really tired of being essentially out of the season at Halloween and having little to care about when Thanksgiving rolls around and the season is just getting hot.

Maybe because I live in Patriots land, it is rubbed in my face constantly. Sure along the way it is great to win a Super Bowl ... that is the goal .... but this is a huge source of entertainment for me and for the majority of his tenure, in the majority his games as head coach, Coughlin's Giants have not delivered. They have been horrible, uninteresting, out of the hunt. The regular seasons are not entertaining, they are miserable and frustrating and heart wrenching.

As a fan, I just shake my head watching the Pats compete year in and year out. And if the difference isn't the head coach then what is it? I have watched the Pats plug in lesser talent time and time again and still compete.

I don't believe we have less talent than other teams. I think most teams have about the same level of talent with the exception of a few star players. I don't believe talented players make winning teams, I believe winning teams make players look more talented than their opponents. And winning teams win because of coaching. Ask yourself honestly ... how many times have you really felt we have been out-coached or out-schemed by our opponents? In how many games do we make adequate and effective adjustments at half-time? And how many times have we just out-foxed our opponent? Think hard.
It's weird  
dcable : 12/17/2014 10:26 am : link
Everyone loves McAdoo but TC didnt want to get rid of the prev (KG)OC. It was Mara that forced the issue. And this is the coach so many want to keep? Actually, losing again next year and many here will still want to keep TC here....Weird
I am not in the Anti Coughlin camp  
Essex : 12/17/2014 10:27 am : link
But, even when we were very good, he still had a problem with consistency. If our good years had more years like 08 than run years like 07 and 11, I would be more inclined to keep him. But remember, before we were awful, we had issues of collapses in 06, 08, 09, even in 11 (6-2 to 9-7), and 12. So, it was not like our good years were flawless and we are now going through a normal cycle. You have two Super Bowls, but under the hood the record is much more mixed. I have seen nothing from the offense this year to lead me to suggest that we should be satisfied with its direction and keep BM and TC for stability sake. The offense has ranged from poor to mediocre, with an occasional good performance. In this NFL, that is not nearly enough.
Dcable  
Essex : 12/17/2014 10:28 am : link
Exactly, there is no accountability. People here jump through hoops to defend him and make arguments that are so strained that they lose a lot of credibility:
"I demand accountability!"  
BeerFridge : 12/17/2014 10:30 am : link
is a childish reaction
What the fuck is accountability..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/17/2014 10:36 am : link
anyway? And are fans really the ones who should judge that? Hell, people here ragged on nicks with no clue that they guy had Compartment syndrome that robs him of his speed and thought he was dogging it. People earlier in the year said the team quit, and then when we win the last two, it shows we still have fight? Things that are pure speculation here get made into fact because some people will post it over and over trying to make it so.

for the most part, fans are clueless, myself included. What it boils down to is that people are upset we aren't in the hunt, so they want answers. That isn't accountability - that is trying to look for answers and trying to pin blame on one thing. For people acting like we are continually out of the playoff chase, it isn't so - it has been the past two years. And those two years have shown the Giants to be not just one of the most injured teams, but they have now had two seasons in a row being one of the most injured of ALL-TIME, yet you will still see stupid shit posted like "We need to just play through injuries" as if this is easily accomplished.

Peopl want accountability, but only their version of it. They have no clue about the team other than the record and think it HAS to be the HC.

I'm just glad the organization isn't as knee-jerk as the fan base.
it is funny  
Essex : 12/17/2014 10:42 am : link
People like FatManInCharlotte want us to look under the hood for reasons for failure the last two to three years, but never say we should look under the hood in the good years. I have consistently done both. I get no joy in asking for a coaching change, but this team has not been well coached the last three years. Too many blowouts, too many times we were (eagles SNF the most glaring example), and too many times the other team made adjustments we couldn't counter (jax for example).
Insert outschemed  
Essex : 12/17/2014 10:43 am : link
Before Eagles example
I don't want people to look for answers only in the bad times..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/17/2014 10:58 am : link
I want people to stop acting as if they know what is wrong and how to fix it.

Missing the playoffs is not desireable. But winning SB's is the pinnacle of the sport. For some reason, people still want to diminish that by acting as if a guy won 2 SB's and he isn't fired in the bad times, he has a lifetime pass. Ironically, some of these people saying this would sign up for another round of Parcells.

Winning consistently isn't easy in the NFL. Only a handful of teams do it. Winning multiple SB's is even harder.

Personally, I see valid reasons both for retaining TC and letting him retire. But in the end, I can live with whatever decided. Some of you sound like if we don't fire him, impending doom is 100% guaranteed and that a new guy is going to be perfect. I happen to like the fact that the giants don't make rash decisions. I like tradition and keeping leaders in place.

My gripe on these threads is less about what happens to TC, and is more of an issue with fans who think they know exactly what needs to be done, and have the arrogance to continually post it as fact.

I don't think 2 SB's gives anyone a lifetime pass in their job, but it SHOULD give that person a lifetime pass for being shit on by fans as if they are tearing down the organization. It is sad to me that a lot of people don't give a flying fuck about ripping into TC.

"I've been deprived of enjoyment by the team, so I can yell about anyone I want!" is the mantra many fans take and they don't give a fuck about how it makes them look.
stupid to let him go  
NYG4246 : 12/17/2014 11:06 am : link
who replaces him???

no one who is available can even stiff coughlins shit. YOu want to replace him with a rookie head coach? give away two more seasons? The man coached an 0-6 squad last year to win 7 of their last 10, too little too late but most teams roll over and die. The offensive line has been a mess for almost 3 seasons. If you understand the game of football, real football, not fantasy football then you know without a competent line not much can be accomplished. 2 bad seasons after 8 winning seasons and most of you want to burn everything down. Fix the o-line and this team is fixed and rolling. The defense wont be on the field as much, a run game will return, which has been non-existent since mid 2012 and that will open up play action for ELi, somehting he has excelled at his entire career. Coach is not the problem....even if he is fired im sure most of you will complain about the new coach. You love this team when theyre riding high and you hate 'em when theyre down. fake fans, bandwagon fans. Go watch the jetplanes. LETS GO GIANTS
Accountability is consequences for two losing seasons in a row  
jeff57 : 12/17/2014 11:06 am : link
And one playoff appearance in 6 years. Or are some here satisfied with that performance so that none of it is the fault of coaching and coaching decisions.
The HC can't be criticized for players who  
chops : 12/17/2014 11:08 am : link
are really backups. This is a drafting/FA problem and it has been going on for at least 4 years.

Also, someone please explain to me the reasons why BM should be the next HC.
RE: RE: Our over-whelming success  
NYG4246 : 12/17/2014 11:08 am : link
In comment 12038939 gmen1234 said:
Quote:
In comment 12038932 redbeard said:


Quote:


Over the past 6 seasons?



The fucking greed and unrealistic expectations are ridiculous. "I want the playoffs every year and superbowls!" That just doesn't happen. THere have only been two seasons under Coughlin that the team was not in it up to the last game of the season. That happened to be the last two years. So he had 9 years of either making the playoffs, winning the superbowl or having his team mathematically in it going into the last week. In the NFL that's pretty damn good.



thank you for understanding the game of football and the nfl. its nice to see someone with basic knowlegde of the game and team theyre commenting on. LETS GO GIANTS
rationale for keeping Coughlin  
Les in TO : 12/17/2014 11:09 am : link
- he's won 2 super bowls, and has not gone senile
- continuity as the offense is starting to gain momentum and to keep him aligned with the Eli/Beckham window
- has kept the troops playing hard/fighting even though playoff hopes were killed by the losing streak

- is there anyone out there who could do a better job?

rationale for asking Coughlin to retire or terminating:

- the defense has been poorly coached - the seattle game was one of the most embarassing performances from a defensive strategy standpoint that i've ever seen; and even last week there was an uncontested touchdown where the receiver walked into the end zone because of yet another blown coverage

- Coughlin needs to share in some of the blame for the roster - he is in the draft room and contributes and decides who makes the final roster

- Coughlin's teams are consistently one of the most injured in the NFL; something about his routine is not working, i highly doubt it's just fluke or the field at MetLife

- coughlin prided his teams on winning the penalty and turnover battles, but lately the giants have been losing the mental discipline battles

- age/energy

- very conservative playcalling on offense that he directed, resulting in blown leads

- just like the defense, offensive line has been a mess, not just physically but giving up uncontested sacks because of blown assignments


Ultimately, the Giants would being a disservice to the team and fans if they did not do their due diligence and see if there is someone out there that could do a better job than Coughlin going forward, whether it's a coordinator or college coach.
RE: Missing the playoffs 5 out of 6 seasons is not  
gmen1234 : 12/17/2014 11:10 am : link
In comment 12038998 redbeard said:
Quote:
"Pretty good". That's "pretty bad". Not to mention the team has been out of the race by turkey day the past two seasons.


Spare me


So if they made the playoffs 6 out of 6 with no superbowls is that more successful than winning 1?
The constraints of time.  
Zebra3 : 12/17/2014 11:13 am : link
Coughlin is tied to Eli and Mac now. This was done by Mara last year.
The team knows Eli will not last forever and the clock is ticking.
If Eli hated or was not promising in this offense. Mara may have made a change this year to HC. As it is He likes it so Mara likes it. Mac gets another year as does TC
Gilbride is part of the old guard his Offense would have been out dated teams were catching up and was killing the chances of a two time Super Bowl MVP of getting in the Hall.
Again it's all about timing and getting the most out of a franchise QB.
Again..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/17/2014 11:14 am : link
Quote:
Accountability is consequences for two losing seasons in a row
jeff57 : 11:06 am : link : reply
And one playoff appearance in 6 years. Or are some here satisfied with that performance so that none of it is the fault of coaching and coaching decisions.


So what is accountability? Is it firing the coach for, GASP, two losing season in a row with teams who have been among the most injured of all-time? Or is it making a review and determining the best course of action, which is what I trust Ownership to do.

Accountability isn't satisfying "jeff57". It isn't appeasing the anger of fans who have been disappointed. Accountability is making decisions based on people blatantly failing in their roles.

Frankly I don't want (or trust) the collective fanbase to make those decisions. Whether we like it or not, as a whole, we are a bunch of reactionary morons.
I think Giants will eventually have to let Coughlin go  
oipolloi : 12/17/2014 11:38 am : link
So, I would do it this year. But I'm ok with his getting another year.

He definitely has to rethink his approach on offense: a commitment to balance and the running game has not proven to be successful in the new pass-happy NFL.

He has remade himself before, so you hope he can do it again. In 2006, he seemed even more stubborn and inflexible about his approach then he does today. Then, in the offseason, he decided he had to change. That's what needs to happen again.

There is this underlying..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/17/2014 11:48 am : link
myth that striving to be balanced is foolish. Tell that to teams like the Cowboys, Seahawks, Ravens, Steelers, Cardinals or the Bills.

It isn't the attempt to be balanced that is hurting the team, it is the fact that the defense is not getting the job done, where the defense on the teams above has been doing it and that our line has made it difficult to be successful running the ball. Balance keeps teams from loading up knowing the pass is coming. Look at the times we've been forced into throwing and that is when the majority of Eli's mistakes and sacks have happened.
I too think the Giants eventually release Coughlin  
Jon from PA : 12/17/2014 11:50 am : link
once they see through his game of IR'ing players just to have something to point to when shit goes south. The game's over Mr Coughlin.
the owners are too lazy and scared  
mdc1 : 12/17/2014 11:51 am : link
to replace TC.
RE: the owners are too lazy and scared  
phillygiant : 12/17/2014 12:24 pm : link
In comment 12039479 mdc1 said:
Quote:
to replace TC.


You really are too stupid to exist
I banged the table  
Glover : 12/17/2014 1:12 pm : link
For a new GM and coaching staff last season, and when they got to 3-2 I felt so glad that I was wrong, but I wasn't. 2 SBs get you a long leash, but this season is another lost season that could have beenngive to the next coaching staff that may or may not be in place next season. So why not waste 2 seasons that way because TC got us 2 SBs. I dont blame Coughlin as much as I do Reese, but the loyalty that was part of the Giants success is now keeping them below .500, and that will continue the longer they stay loyal.
Who would replace Tom Coughlin?  
Fpbflppt : 12/17/2014 1:15 pm : link
Are there any candidates out there with a better CV?

Regarding Perry Fewell - the one with the great big egg-sucking grin on his face while the Giants were getting their heads(?) handed to them -

Who'll replace "the Smiler"? I doubt it'll be Spags, and it won't be either Ryan brother, so who, then?

Perspective  
JOrthman : 12/17/2014 2:30 pm : link
12 teams of 32 make the playoffs, 6 of 16 from our conference. Are we saying if we aren't one of those 6 teams are season sucked? It seems that is that I'm reading. It shouldn't be that simple of an evaluation when deciding a coaches fate.
RE: I too think the Giants eventually release Coughlin  
BillT : 12/17/2014 2:50 pm : link
In comment 12039471 Jon from PA said:
Quote:
once they see through his game of IR'ing players just to have something to point to when shit goes south. The game's over Mr Coughlin.


And I thought I'd seen the stupidest post ever but this may set a new standard.
Bill..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/17/2014 2:54 pm : link
I took that to be sarcasm. If it isn't then that was a doozy of a post.
That's sarcasm.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/17/2014 2:56 pm : link
.
RE: Perspective  
jeff57 : 12/17/2014 2:59 pm : link
In comment 12039872 JOrthman said:
Quote:
12 teams of 32 make the playoffs, 6 of 16 from our conference. Are we saying if we aren't one of those 6 teams are season sucked?


Yes.
RE: That's sarcasm.  
dorgan : 12/17/2014 2:59 pm : link
In comment 12039951 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Shut up, Brett and let them fight.

We need amusement today.
RE: RE: That's sarcasm.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/17/2014 3:02 pm : link
In comment 12039961 dorgan said:
Quote:
In comment 12039951 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


.



Shut up, Brett and let them fight.

We need amusement today.


I hate fun.
RE: Bill..  
BillT : 12/17/2014 3:09 pm : link
In comment 12039947 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I took that to be sarcasm. If it isn't then that was a doozy of a post.


If that's sarcasm it's then, in this context, it's the worst example of it I've seen at least recently. But I'll stand corrected.
12-18 in the last 30 games  
arnief : 12/17/2014 3:20 pm : link
In games against teams other than Washington they're 8-18

They Beat Washington 4 times, RG twice & Cousins twice

They beat Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan

Beat Josh Freeman - out of the league

Beat Matt Barkley - 2 career starts

Beat Terrelle Pryor - out of the league

Beat Ryan Fitzpatrick

Beat Zach Mettenberger

You look at the good fortune the Giants have had with opposing QB's and it's hard to believe their record the past two years is so poor. Of course this year they've lost to Drew Stanton and Blake Bortles with Shaun Hill and Mark Sanchez up next.
RE: RE: the owners are too lazy and scared  
mdc1 : 12/17/2014 5:19 pm : link
In comment 12039559 phillygiant said:
Quote:
In comment 12039479 mdc1 said:


Quote:


to replace TC.



You really are too stupid to exist


look at the record fool. Enjoy those wins against low tier teams.
RE: Accountability is consequences for two losing seasons in a row  
mdc1 : 12/17/2014 5:24 pm : link
In comment 12039345 jeff57 said:
Quote:
And one playoff appearance in 6 years. Or are some here satisfied with that performance so that none of it is the fault of coaching and coaching decisions.


Some here are like the owners, lazy and scared of change.
RE: I don't want people to look for answers only in the bad times..  
Randy in CT : 12/17/2014 6:02 pm : link
In comment 12039324 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I want people to stop acting as if they know what is wrong and how to fix it.

Missing the playoffs is not desireable. But winning SB's is the pinnacle of the sport. For some reason, people still want to diminish that by acting as if a guy won 2 SB's and he isn't fired in the bad times, he has a lifetime pass. Ironically, some of these people saying this would sign up for another round of Parcells.

Winning consistently isn't easy in the NFL. Only a handful of teams do it. Winning multiple SB's is even harder.

Personally, I see valid reasons both for retaining TC and letting him retire. But in the end, I can live with whatever decided. Some of you sound like if we don't fire him, impending doom is 100% guaranteed and that a new guy is going to be perfect. I happen to like the fact that the giants don't make rash decisions. I like tradition and keeping leaders in place.

My gripe on these threads is less about what happens to TC, and is more of an issue with fans who think they know exactly what needs to be done, and have the arrogance to continually post it as fact.

I don't think 2 SB's gives anyone a lifetime pass in their job, but it SHOULD give that person a lifetime pass for being shit on by fans as if they are tearing down the organization. It is sad to me that a lot of people don't give a flying fuck about ripping into TC.

"I've been deprived of enjoyment by the team, so I can yell about anyone I want!" is the mantra many fans take and they don't give a fuck about how it makes them look.
This post saved me some time.
And since people like to make it look worse than it is by saying one  
gmen1234 : 12/17/2014 6:20 pm : link
Playoff appearance in the last five years, ill make the other sude sound better.

The only two losing seasons, this one and last, the giants had the most injuries in the league. This year was even more impact players.
RE: If Eli wanted Coughlin gone  
D_Giants : 12/17/2014 8:42 pm : link
In comment 12039147 Zebra3 said:
Quote:
He would be. Last year they decided this would be a rebuilding year. They hired McAdoo to put in an offense more QB and WR friendly. Gilbride was sacrificed and the plan was coughlin coach the next two years and then Mac take over having installed and changed the offensive staff to his guys.

This offseason Fewell will go and his staff as the sacrifice. My guess is Spags is brought back or even a choice influenced by Mac. Next year is also a rebuild year. It's 2016-17 the team is looking at as the big years.
Coughlin leaves after next season. Reese adds on to the core Oline in the draft and FA on the cheap. He has to hit on at least one blue chip OL guy in the draft. RG or RT unless a blue chip LT falls in his hands.

Facts are the team is rebuilding in coaching staff too.
Please Mr Mara get rid of Fewell and Quinn.


What is the basis for the assumption that McAdoo would take over this team? What has this guy proven? He is not impressive and has done nothing even to suggest that he is head-coach material, let alone good head-coach material. I have no idea where this crazy idea of some TE coach being groomed for a head-coach position. Is it because he is good with PowerPoint? We'd all be better served if he had any ability to call plays.
RE: If Eli wanted Coughlin gone  
woefulb : 12/18/2014 1:56 pm : link
In comment 12039147 Zebra3 said:
Quote:
He would be. Last year they decided this would be a rebuilding year. They hired McAdoo to put in an offense more QB and WR friendly. Gilbride was sacrificed and the plan was coughlin coach the next two years and then Mac take over having installed and changed the offensive staff to his guys.

This offseason Fewell will go and his staff as the sacrifice. My guess is Spags is brought back or even a choice influenced by Mac. Next year is also a rebuild year. It's 2016-17 the team is looking at as the big years.
Coughlin leaves after next season. Reese adds on to the core Oline in the draft and FA on the cheap. He has to hit on at least one blue chip OL guy in the draft. RG or RT unless a blue chip LT falls in his hands.

Facts are the team is rebuilding in coaching staff too.
Please Mr Mara get rid of Fewell and Quinn.



I have seen Spagnolo brought up a few times- why is it thought that he is the answer? There is clearly some nostalgia at play for the SB year but his defense in New Orleans was historically awful and he has not been hired as DC since. Spagnolo's total body of work does not warrant the thought that he would be an upgrade over Fewell, although I completely agree that Fewell needs to go.
Coughlin is not perfect,  
an_idol_mind : 12/18/2014 2:21 pm : link
but he is a very good NFL coach.

He gets way underappreciated for the way he got the team to play over their heads in years like 2011, where the team with a terrible defense and no running game somehow not only made the playoffs but also kicked the shit out of a much better Packers team on their way to the Super Bowl.

He deserves some of the criticism he gets, but a lot of folks tend to forget that this hasn't been a talented team in a long time.

Reese has proven himself excellent at finding skill players but terrible at keeping the lines intact. Reese came into a situation where there was an excellent O-line and D-line in place, but he failed to keep those strengths stocked. The success of 2011 helped him gloss over the weakness of the lines even further, and now we've got a team that can't run block, can't pass block, and can't rush the passer unless their opponents are terrible.

The importance of the lines cannot be overstated. I'm not saying Reese is entirely to blame, as I don't know what Coughlin's input to the roster is. However, the talent level of this team has not been nearly as good in the second half of Coughlin's tenure as it was in the first half.

The Giants need to figure out why so many games got left on the table this year. This team has choked away at least four games and would be in the hunt if they could finish. Is it that the team just isn't good enough to hang with playoff teams? Is it a coaching issue? If it is a coaching issue, can it be corrected?

Keeping Coughlin is not a no-brainer, but neither is getting rid of him. The guy has proven that he can win, and he has shown that he can get a team to play above their talent level. The Giants have to answer some tough questions this offseason.
RE: RE: Perspective  
JOrthman : 12/18/2014 3:23 pm : link
In comment 12039958 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 12039872 JOrthman said:


Quote:


12 teams of 32 make the playoffs, 6 of 16 from our conference. Are we saying if we aren't one of those 6 teams are season sucked?



Yes.


One: that is extremly high standards
Two: It shouldn't just be about making the playoffs, it should be a more in depth annalysis of what how the season went. Some years 9-7 gets you in and others 11-5 won't get you in. Simply saying you didn't make the playoffs shouldn't be the benchmark for success or failure.
RE: Coughlin is not perfect,  
JOrthman : 12/18/2014 3:34 pm : link
In comment 12041601 an_idol_mind said:
Quote:
but he is a very good NFL coach.

He gets way underappreciated for the way he got the team to play over their heads in years like 2011, where the team with a terrible defense and no running game somehow not only made the playoffs but also kicked the shit out of a much better Packers team on their way to the Super Bowl.

He deserves some of the criticism he gets, but a lot of folks tend to forget that this hasn't been a talented team in a long time.

Reese has proven himself excellent at finding skill players but terrible at keeping the lines intact. Reese came into a situation where there was an excellent O-line and D-line in place, but he failed to keep those strengths stocked. The success of 2011 helped him gloss over the weakness of the lines even further, and now we've got a team that can't run block, can't pass block, and can't rush the passer unless their opponents are terrible.

The importance of the lines cannot be overstated. I'm not saying Reese is entirely to blame, as I don't know what Coughlin's input to the roster is. However, the talent level of this team has not been nearly as good in the second half of Coughlin's tenure as it was in the first half.

The Giants need to figure out why so many games got left on the table this year. This team has choked away at least four games and would be in the hunt if they could finish. Is it that the team just isn't good enough to hang with playoff teams? Is it a coaching issue? If it is a coaching issue, can it be corrected?

Keeping Coughlin is not a no-brainer, but neither is getting rid of him. The guy has proven that he can win, and he has shown that he can get a team to play above their talent level. The Giants have to answer some tough questions this offseason.


Along these same lines...While our record is bad, we were in every game except the Philly and Detroit games and Detroit was the first game of the year with a new offense. In some of our SB years we weren't as competative in every game. I really don't think we are as far off as everyone seems to think. A decent draft a few tweaks here and there and I think we are back in the hunt.
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