Two weeks ago, most on this site felt that it was time for a change. How does beating the worst team in football and playing a mediocre game against RGIII and the woeful Redskins change the equation? The bottom line this team hasn't played good football since the Dallas game in 2012 (away). We have missed the playoffs 5 of 6 years. Every year, we blame it on a coordinator. The defense has been atrocious this year and the offense not nearly as bad, but not very good either. At what point is the HC responsible for this mess.
And, to the people who will blame Reese, remember when we won Super Bowls, we didn't really light up the regular season. The only regular season in over a decade that we did really well was 2008(maybe you can count 05). The 2 Super Bowls matter, but it isn't like the record was so good that you can just excuse three bad seasons. My fear is just like last year, we will be having the same conversations next year as we have had this year and last. It is time for a change.
You can't possibly justify that statement and even if you could, you can't be certain the change people wanted was for the HC to change. I want Reece to get the axe because he is the idiot whose task was to fix the oline in the off season.
Now I'll ask YOU....Does the oline look fixed to you???
If your answer is yes, you're an idiot! If not, then tell me that you believe that you expect this team could have won a lot more games with a different HC with the same amount of KEY injuries we have had to endure all while learning a new offense with an oline that is clearly just as bad as last year. Because if you believe that then you're still NUTS!
Bottom line. My rational for keeping TC is because:
A) He is still one of the best coaches the NFL has ever had.
B) He has not lost the team
C) He has more energy and determination and dedication to his craft than most 40 year olds.
D) No coach could have done better with the amount of key injuries this team has had this year while learning a new offense with a completely third string O-Line.
See item D again!
See item D again!
I think Montreal Man summed it up very well. Plain and simple, TC stays because he has the leadership to coach and you don't want to risk bringing in a new guy who will change the OC and install a different system AGAIN.
It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario anyway. After this year, TC will have had 2 losing seasons since 2004, even though many of the years were missed playoff years. Contrast that with the Pats and Colts and Packers, who have made the playoffs many times, but still have less SB wins than we do in that frame.
My take is that fans would still bitch if we were the Colts by saying TC should win the big game more often since we are in the playoffs each year.
I thought last year and 2009 were the only years where we had a wide deviation from expected play - and last year, I widely overestimated the talent of the team. This year, I expected a below .500 record. Hard to get mad at Coughlin for not taking a shitty roster to the playoffs.
I think Montreal Man summed it up very well. Plain and simple, TC stays because he has the leadership to coach and you don't want to risk bringing in a new guy who will change the OC and install a different system AGAIN.
It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario anyway. After this year, TC will have had 2 losing seasons since 2004, even though many of the years were missed playoff years. Contrast that with the Pats and Colts and Packers, who have made the playoffs many times, but still have less SB wins than we do in that frame.
My take is that fans would still bitch if we were the Colts by saying TC should win the big game more often since we are in the playoffs each year.
the three guys that you named also have all world QB on thier teams and all 3 combined have less superbowls wins that TC since 2007..Think about that for a while..
This offseason Fewell will go and his staff as the sacrifice. My guess is Spags is brought back or even a choice influenced by Mac. Next year is also a rebuild year. It's 2016-17 the team is looking at as the big years.
Coughlin leaves after next season. Reese adds on to the core Oline in the draft and FA on the cheap. He has to hit on at least one blue chip OL guy in the draft. RG or RT unless a blue chip LT falls in his hands.
Facts are the team is rebuilding in coaching staff too.
Please Mr Mara get rid of Fewell and Quinn.
I am just really tired of being essentially out of the season at Halloween and having little to care about when Thanksgiving rolls around and the season is just getting hot.
Maybe because I live in Patriots land, it is rubbed in my face constantly. Sure along the way it is great to win a Super Bowl ... that is the goal .... but this is a huge source of entertainment for me and for the majority of his tenure, in the majority his games as head coach, Coughlin's Giants have not delivered. They have been horrible, uninteresting, out of the hunt. The regular seasons are not entertaining, they are miserable and frustrating and heart wrenching.
As a fan, I just shake my head watching the Pats compete year in and year out. And if the difference isn't the head coach then what is it? I have watched the Pats plug in lesser talent time and time again and still compete.
I don't believe we have less talent than other teams. I think most teams have about the same level of talent with the exception of a few star players. I don't believe talented players make winning teams, I believe winning teams make players look more talented than their opponents. And winning teams win because of coaching. Ask yourself honestly ... how many times have you really felt we have been out-coached or out-schemed by our opponents? In how many games do we make adequate and effective adjustments at half-time? And how many times have we just out-foxed our opponent? Think hard.
for the most part, fans are clueless, myself included. What it boils down to is that people are upset we aren't in the hunt, so they want answers. That isn't accountability - that is trying to look for answers and trying to pin blame on one thing. For people acting like we are continually out of the playoff chase, it isn't so - it has been the past two years. And those two years have shown the Giants to be not just one of the most injured teams, but they have now had two seasons in a row being one of the most injured of ALL-TIME, yet you will still see stupid shit posted like "We need to just play through injuries" as if this is easily accomplished.
Peopl want accountability, but only their version of it. They have no clue about the team other than the record and think it HAS to be the HC.
I'm just glad the organization isn't as knee-jerk as the fan base.
Missing the playoffs is not desireable. But winning SB's is the pinnacle of the sport. For some reason, people still want to diminish that by acting as if a guy won 2 SB's and he isn't fired in the bad times, he has a lifetime pass. Ironically, some of these people saying this would sign up for another round of Parcells.
Winning consistently isn't easy in the NFL. Only a handful of teams do it. Winning multiple SB's is even harder.
Personally, I see valid reasons both for retaining TC and letting him retire. But in the end, I can live with whatever decided. Some of you sound like if we don't fire him, impending doom is 100% guaranteed and that a new guy is going to be perfect. I happen to like the fact that the giants don't make rash decisions. I like tradition and keeping leaders in place.
My gripe on these threads is less about what happens to TC, and is more of an issue with fans who think they know exactly what needs to be done, and have the arrogance to continually post it as fact.
I don't think 2 SB's gives anyone a lifetime pass in their job, but it SHOULD give that person a lifetime pass for being shit on by fans as if they are tearing down the organization. It is sad to me that a lot of people don't give a flying fuck about ripping into TC.
"I've been deprived of enjoyment by the team, so I can yell about anyone I want!" is the mantra many fans take and they don't give a fuck about how it makes them look.
no one who is available can even stiff coughlins shit. YOu want to replace him with a rookie head coach? give away two more seasons? The man coached an 0-6 squad last year to win 7 of their last 10, too little too late but most teams roll over and die. The offensive line has been a mess for almost 3 seasons. If you understand the game of football, real football, not fantasy football then you know without a competent line not much can be accomplished. 2 bad seasons after 8 winning seasons and most of you want to burn everything down. Fix the o-line and this team is fixed and rolling. The defense wont be on the field as much, a run game will return, which has been non-existent since mid 2012 and that will open up play action for ELi, somehting he has excelled at his entire career. Coach is not the problem....even if he is fired im sure most of you will complain about the new coach. You love this team when theyre riding high and you hate 'em when theyre down. fake fans, bandwagon fans. Go watch the jetplanes. LETS GO GIANTS
Also, someone please explain to me the reasons why BM should be the next HC.
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Over the past 6 seasons?
The fucking greed and unrealistic expectations are ridiculous. "I want the playoffs every year and superbowls!" That just doesn't happen. THere have only been two seasons under Coughlin that the team was not in it up to the last game of the season. That happened to be the last two years. So he had 9 years of either making the playoffs, winning the superbowl or having his team mathematically in it going into the last week. In the NFL that's pretty damn good.
thank you for understanding the game of football and the nfl. its nice to see someone with basic knowlegde of the game and team theyre commenting on. LETS GO GIANTS
- continuity as the offense is starting to gain momentum and to keep him aligned with the Eli/Beckham window
- has kept the troops playing hard/fighting even though playoff hopes were killed by the losing streak
- is there anyone out there who could do a better job?
rationale for asking Coughlin to retire or terminating:
- the defense has been poorly coached - the seattle game was one of the most embarassing performances from a defensive strategy standpoint that i've ever seen; and even last week there was an uncontested touchdown where the receiver walked into the end zone because of yet another blown coverage
- Coughlin needs to share in some of the blame for the roster - he is in the draft room and contributes and decides who makes the final roster
- Coughlin's teams are consistently one of the most injured in the NFL; something about his routine is not working, i highly doubt it's just fluke or the field at MetLife
- coughlin prided his teams on winning the penalty and turnover battles, but lately the giants have been losing the mental discipline battles
- age/energy
- very conservative playcalling on offense that he directed, resulting in blown leads
- just like the defense, offensive line has been a mess, not just physically but giving up uncontested sacks because of blown assignments
Ultimately, the Giants would being a disservice to the team and fans if they did not do their due diligence and see if there is someone out there that could do a better job than Coughlin going forward, whether it's a coordinator or college coach.
Spare me
So if they made the playoffs 6 out of 6 with no superbowls is that more successful than winning 1?
The team knows Eli will not last forever and the clock is ticking.
If Eli hated or was not promising in this offense. Mara may have made a change this year to HC. As it is He likes it so Mara likes it. Mac gets another year as does TC
Gilbride is part of the old guard his Offense would have been out dated teams were catching up and was killing the chances of a two time Super Bowl MVP of getting in the Hall.
Again it's all about timing and getting the most out of a franchise QB.
jeff57 : 11:06 am : link : reply
And one playoff appearance in 6 years. Or are some here satisfied with that performance so that none of it is the fault of coaching and coaching decisions.
So what is accountability? Is it firing the coach for, GASP, two losing season in a row with teams who have been among the most injured of all-time? Or is it making a review and determining the best course of action, which is what I trust Ownership to do.
Accountability isn't satisfying "jeff57". It isn't appeasing the anger of fans who have been disappointed. Accountability is making decisions based on people blatantly failing in their roles.
Frankly I don't want (or trust) the collective fanbase to make those decisions. Whether we like it or not, as a whole, we are a bunch of reactionary morons.
He definitely has to rethink his approach on offense: a commitment to balance and the running game has not proven to be successful in the new pass-happy NFL.
He has remade himself before, so you hope he can do it again. In 2006, he seemed even more stubborn and inflexible about his approach then he does today. Then, in the offseason, he decided he had to change. That's what needs to happen again.
It isn't the attempt to be balanced that is hurting the team, it is the fact that the defense is not getting the job done, where the defense on the teams above has been doing it and that our line has made it difficult to be successful running the ball. Balance keeps teams from loading up knowing the pass is coming. Look at the times we've been forced into throwing and that is when the majority of Eli's mistakes and sacks have happened.
You really are too stupid to exist
Regarding Perry Fewell - the one with the great big egg-sucking grin on his face while the Giants were getting their heads(?) handed to them -
Who'll replace "the Smiler"? I doubt it'll be Spags, and it won't be either Ryan brother, so who, then?
And I thought I'd seen the stupidest post ever but this may set a new standard.
Yes.
Shut up, Brett and let them fight.
We need amusement today.
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.
Shut up, Brett and let them fight.
We need amusement today.
I hate fun.
If that's sarcasm it's then, in this context, it's the worst example of it I've seen at least recently. But I'll stand corrected.
They Beat Washington 4 times, RG twice & Cousins twice
They beat Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan
Beat Josh Freeman - out of the league
Beat Matt Barkley - 2 career starts
Beat Terrelle Pryor - out of the league
Beat Ryan Fitzpatrick
Beat Zach Mettenberger
You look at the good fortune the Giants have had with opposing QB's and it's hard to believe their record the past two years is so poor. Of course this year they've lost to Drew Stanton and Blake Bortles with Shaun Hill and Mark Sanchez up next.
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to replace TC.
You really are too stupid to exist
look at the record fool. Enjoy those wins against low tier teams.
Some here are like the owners, lazy and scared of change.
Missing the playoffs is not desireable. But winning SB's is the pinnacle of the sport. For some reason, people still want to diminish that by acting as if a guy won 2 SB's and he isn't fired in the bad times, he has a lifetime pass. Ironically, some of these people saying this would sign up for another round of Parcells.
Winning consistently isn't easy in the NFL. Only a handful of teams do it. Winning multiple SB's is even harder.
Personally, I see valid reasons both for retaining TC and letting him retire. But in the end, I can live with whatever decided. Some of you sound like if we don't fire him, impending doom is 100% guaranteed and that a new guy is going to be perfect. I happen to like the fact that the giants don't make rash decisions. I like tradition and keeping leaders in place.
My gripe on these threads is less about what happens to TC, and is more of an issue with fans who think they know exactly what needs to be done, and have the arrogance to continually post it as fact.
I don't think 2 SB's gives anyone a lifetime pass in their job, but it SHOULD give that person a lifetime pass for being shit on by fans as if they are tearing down the organization. It is sad to me that a lot of people don't give a flying fuck about ripping into TC.
"I've been deprived of enjoyment by the team, so I can yell about anyone I want!" is the mantra many fans take and they don't give a fuck about how it makes them look.
The only two losing seasons, this one and last, the giants had the most injuries in the league. This year was even more impact players.
This offseason Fewell will go and his staff as the sacrifice. My guess is Spags is brought back or even a choice influenced by Mac. Next year is also a rebuild year. It's 2016-17 the team is looking at as the big years.
Coughlin leaves after next season. Reese adds on to the core Oline in the draft and FA on the cheap. He has to hit on at least one blue chip OL guy in the draft. RG or RT unless a blue chip LT falls in his hands.
Facts are the team is rebuilding in coaching staff too.
Please Mr Mara get rid of Fewell and Quinn.
What is the basis for the assumption that McAdoo would take over this team? What has this guy proven? He is not impressive and has done nothing even to suggest that he is head-coach material, let alone good head-coach material. I have no idea where this crazy idea of some TE coach being groomed for a head-coach position. Is it because he is good with PowerPoint? We'd all be better served if he had any ability to call plays.
This offseason Fewell will go and his staff as the sacrifice. My guess is Spags is brought back or even a choice influenced by Mac. Next year is also a rebuild year. It's 2016-17 the team is looking at as the big years.
Coughlin leaves after next season. Reese adds on to the core Oline in the draft and FA on the cheap. He has to hit on at least one blue chip OL guy in the draft. RG or RT unless a blue chip LT falls in his hands.
Facts are the team is rebuilding in coaching staff too.
Please Mr Mara get rid of Fewell and Quinn.
I have seen Spagnolo brought up a few times- why is it thought that he is the answer? There is clearly some nostalgia at play for the SB year but his defense in New Orleans was historically awful and he has not been hired as DC since. Spagnolo's total body of work does not warrant the thought that he would be an upgrade over Fewell, although I completely agree that Fewell needs to go.
He gets way underappreciated for the way he got the team to play over their heads in years like 2011, where the team with a terrible defense and no running game somehow not only made the playoffs but also kicked the shit out of a much better Packers team on their way to the Super Bowl.
He deserves some of the criticism he gets, but a lot of folks tend to forget that this hasn't been a talented team in a long time.
Reese has proven himself excellent at finding skill players but terrible at keeping the lines intact. Reese came into a situation where there was an excellent O-line and D-line in place, but he failed to keep those strengths stocked. The success of 2011 helped him gloss over the weakness of the lines even further, and now we've got a team that can't run block, can't pass block, and can't rush the passer unless their opponents are terrible.
The importance of the lines cannot be overstated. I'm not saying Reese is entirely to blame, as I don't know what Coughlin's input to the roster is. However, the talent level of this team has not been nearly as good in the second half of Coughlin's tenure as it was in the first half.
The Giants need to figure out why so many games got left on the table this year. This team has choked away at least four games and would be in the hunt if they could finish. Is it that the team just isn't good enough to hang with playoff teams? Is it a coaching issue? If it is a coaching issue, can it be corrected?
Keeping Coughlin is not a no-brainer, but neither is getting rid of him. The guy has proven that he can win, and he has shown that he can get a team to play above their talent level. The Giants have to answer some tough questions this offseason.
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12 teams of 32 make the playoffs, 6 of 16 from our conference. Are we saying if we aren't one of those 6 teams are season sucked?
Yes.
One: that is extremly high standards
Two: It shouldn't just be about making the playoffs, it should be a more in depth annalysis of what how the season went. Some years 9-7 gets you in and others 11-5 won't get you in. Simply saying you didn't make the playoffs shouldn't be the benchmark for success or failure.
He gets way underappreciated for the way he got the team to play over their heads in years like 2011, where the team with a terrible defense and no running game somehow not only made the playoffs but also kicked the shit out of a much better Packers team on their way to the Super Bowl.
He deserves some of the criticism he gets, but a lot of folks tend to forget that this hasn't been a talented team in a long time.
Reese has proven himself excellent at finding skill players but terrible at keeping the lines intact. Reese came into a situation where there was an excellent O-line and D-line in place, but he failed to keep those strengths stocked. The success of 2011 helped him gloss over the weakness of the lines even further, and now we've got a team that can't run block, can't pass block, and can't rush the passer unless their opponents are terrible.
The importance of the lines cannot be overstated. I'm not saying Reese is entirely to blame, as I don't know what Coughlin's input to the roster is. However, the talent level of this team has not been nearly as good in the second half of Coughlin's tenure as it was in the first half.
The Giants need to figure out why so many games got left on the table this year. This team has choked away at least four games and would be in the hunt if they could finish. Is it that the team just isn't good enough to hang with playoff teams? Is it a coaching issue? If it is a coaching issue, can it be corrected?
Keeping Coughlin is not a no-brainer, but neither is getting rid of him. The guy has proven that he can win, and he has shown that he can get a team to play above their talent level. The Giants have to answer some tough questions this offseason.
Along these same lines...While our record is bad, we were in every game except the Philly and Detroit games and Detroit was the first game of the year with a new offense. In some of our SB years we weren't as competative in every game. I really don't think we are as far off as everyone seems to think. A decent draft a few tweaks here and there and I think we are back in the hunt.