NFT: Mavs talking Rondo deal (Knicks also interested)

.

Beck reporting the Knicks are "open for business" with everyone but Melo on the block.

The Knicks, according to a league source, have been �very active� working the phones since Dec. 15, the date at which free agents can be traded.

When thinking about trades and the Knicks, it�s worth noting that Phil Jackson said earlier this month that he�d only consider trading for a player that was a good long-term fit for the organization.
It�s also worth wondering what the Knicks would be able to give up for Rondo. The Dallas Mavericks, according to Stein's report, are talking to Boston about a package that includes multiple picks, including at least one first-rounder, and young big man Brandan Wright.

The Knicks� earliest first-round pick that can be included in a trade is 2018, and, judging by the way the roster has performed, the trade values of players currently on the roster aren�t exactly at an all-time high these days.

If the Knicks traded for Rondo, it would likely be with the assurance that he�d sign a long-term contract with them. That development, obviously, would eat up a significant portion of their 2015 cap space.


(That's right, the Knicks can't even include their 2015 pick)

the return for Rondo sounds really underwhelming.

In comment 12040791 Deej said:

Quote:

the return for Rondo sounds really underwhelming.

Wright and picks including a 2015 pick blows away anything the Knicks can offer. Wright is very, very underrated. 26.19 PER. just turned 27. I'd trade anyone on the Knicks not named Melo for Wright in a millisecond.

8.8 points 4.1 boards 1.6 blocks in 19 minutes per on 75% from the field (no not a typo), PER 26.19. Career 21 PER. Stands to reason on another team he can be at least a 25 minute guy giving you 11+ 6+ 2+ blocks

so there's risk in making him the centerpiece of your return on Rondo. That said, is the current version of Rondo even worth a huge return?

Tim Hardaway Jr. and a 2018 pick is the best the Knicks can offer. The Mavs can offer Wright and a 2015 pick and the Celtics were said to be holding out for "at least one more significant player or pick". Just don't see any possible way the Knicks land Rondo via trade.

Him and Kobe had lunch together! LOLZ

Rondo, while maintaining that his preference is to continue his career in Boston, has left little doubt in recent months that he intends to test the market as a free agent in July as opposed to signing an extension with the Celtics. However, sources say that Dallas, amid growing concern about its point guard play and sensing the opportunity to acquire a top-flight player it has coveted for some time, is confident it could win over Rondo for the long term if trade terms can be finalized with the Celtics.

In comment 12040800 Enzo said:

Quote:

so there's risk in making him the centerpiece of your return on Rondo. That said, is the current version of Rondo even worth a huge return?

Crappy FA market likely helps the Celtics here + parity makes teams try and be a bit more aggressive.

the Knicks don't have enough for Rondo can Phil PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE help the Mavs land Rondo (and the Knicks dump JR Smith) with the Knicks taking back Felton? I just want to see BBI explode on Felton 3.0 lol

i mean a deal headlined by Wright is not all that impressive. I dont mind wright and he has seemed to continue to improve, but you see guys like him with great stats in limited minutes against other teams second unit struggle when givin a starter role. Im not trying to crap on Wright, but him and a late first would not excite me at all if i was BOS.

ANd im not saying a Knick offer would be better, im just saying that im not that impressed with the Mavs offer.

that BOS would want a team to take back Wallace, but it would be near impossible for DAL to match that much salary without trading like 6 guys.

In comment 12040814 Italianju said:

Quote:

i mean a deal headlined by Wright is not all that impressive. I dont mind wright and he has seemed to continue to improve, but you see guys like him with great stats in limited minutes against other teams second unit struggle when givin a starter role. Im not trying to crap on Wright, but him and a late first would not excite me at all if i was BOS. ANd im not saying a Knick offer would be better, im just saying that im not that impressed with the Mavs offer.

agreed. Probably a combination of many teams simply having better situations at PG, Rondo having a somewhat "unique" skill set (even at his peak), and the uncertainty regarding just how good he is at this point.

especially not this year when its better for us to suck at this point, but the knicks would have the advantage of being able to take back contracts like Green/Wallace. Sure it would push back our FA push until after next season, but if you thought Rondo was worth it (i dont to be honest, but im not Phil Jackson) that wouldnt be the worst thing.

aggressively trying to move guys. No idea who has any value at all, but its good to know Phil is trying. I think Shumpert has value, but he hasnt been great and is hurt. Same story for JR but he is also older and more costly. I really think Amare would have value to a lot of contenders, but his contract combined with us not wanting to lose cap space would make him really hard to move. Calderson, Ja. Smith, Dalembert, pablo, all prolly have some value, but im sure its not much.

where you can trade a guy yet keep some of his cap hit on your books in order to make the trade work. For example, Amare's cap number is so high it's nearly impossible to find a team that could take him without stripping their team of several useful players. But why not make it so you can trade a $20 million player for a guy making $10 million and keep the rest of the cap hit on your books? It's not like this provides any advantage to big market teams.

Obviously I'd love to be able to trade him for selfish reasons and get something decent in return, but isn't the league better off having guys like Amare or Joe Johnson able to join contenders for playoff runs? Maybe all of this cap nonsense will be a memory after the next round of labor armageddon in two years.

the very least we should have some different (even if equally crappy) players to watch at some point this season. Even 2nd round picks would be some value to us.

The Knicks should absolutely be involved.

that not many teams can is massive cap relief, so it depends what the celtics want...do they want a bunch of picks in the late 20's or do they want the cap relief from their contracts..so for example the Knicks can offer

Stoudemire, THJR, Shump and Larkin for Rondo Green Wallace

That cuts off 20 million off of their salary cap next year...that is a big cut...

But if the Knicks are not able to trade for a monroe or Rondo i would be looking to acquire as many picks in this years draft as possible, 2nd round or 1st round..if the plan is to make a splash in free agency, you need to acquire some cheap young players to fill out the roster...

In comment 12040873 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Even 2nd round picks would be some value to us.

until we unload them in order to save Dolan a few million.

Rondo can be 1/3 of a big 3, with Rondo making the max? If so, you gotta make the move. Carmelo + Rondo makes it a lot more likely to get another premiere FA than Carmelo + cap space.

guy we should 100% target in the off-season
Link - ( New Window )

be Corey Brewer, because just about every contender despartely needs him.

Cavs - Start over Marion, eat into Lebrons minutes
Clippers - Becomes your starting 3 right off the bat.
Bulls - Starts at 3, gives them 2 excellent wing defenders.


Along with the likes of OKC, Toronto, etc...

WOW.

Earl Barron averaged 31.9 points on .571 shooting (40-for-70), to go along with 12.0 rebounds and 1.0 steal.

In comment 12040903 Metnut said:

Quote:

Rondo can be 1/3 of a big 3, with Rondo making the max? If so, you gotta make the move. Carmelo + Rondo makes it a lot more likely to get another premiere FA than Carmelo + cap space.

it all depends on how the deal is worked...if the Knicks are giving the celtics cap relief then the Knciks may only have around 7 or 8 million to spend unless they can dump Calderon then they would have around 15 million...

The 3rd star may not be able to be signed until the following off season...

If the plan is to get Rondo i hope he is not traded and the Knicks can sign him in the off season then the Knicks can continue to tank and get a top pick and add that player to Melo and Rondo then you have a young superstar on a cheap deal which would help acquire another star...

That is the huge benefit to tanking you can potentially have 4 very good players on this team in the next year if the top pick pans out...

would be gold. The issue is that we'd have to take back salary that's going to effect next years FA moves.

they've been running around in circles since 2000 acquiring guys like Antonio McDyess, Stephon Marbury, Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Amare, & Melo. They're just throwing darts against the wall, there is no plan.

I used to defend Donnie Walsh, but he had no plan either. He created cap room and once he couldn't land any of the top dogs, he wasted it on a banged up Amare (who I like, but wasn't a good signing). The players above all would work under the right enviorment (see Randolpoh), but it's just such a mess with this franchise.

I never liked JR, I knew he would implode...sure enough everyone wants him gone now. They had a very good 2012, they made a lot of three point shots and had an excellent shooting year. For all that, they still got eliminated in the second round of the playoffs.

How about accumulating assets and building this team the right way? Melo was dumb to re-sign here and it would be best for BOTH parties if a trade was explored. Rondo is not putting this team into title contention, he will put them, maybe in a 42-48 win range.

And for all the Knicks fans who say this is just a 'throw away' year, the last 15 years have been a fucking throw away year with the exception of 11 & 12.

if the Knicks were able to trade their pending lottery pick for Rondo, would you do it? Assume no other bad contracts would be coming back and Rondo re-signs for the max.

not.

In comment 12040932 Sean said:

Quote:

they've been running around in circles since 2000 acquiring guys like Antonio McDyess, Stephon Marbury, Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Amare, & Melo. They're just throwing darts against the wall, there is no plan. I used to defend Donnie Walsh, but he had no plan either. He created cap room and once he couldn't land any of the top dogs, he wasted it on a banged up Amare (who I like, but wasn't a good signing). The players above all would work under the right enviorment (see Randolpoh), but it's just such a mess with this franchise. I never liked JR, I knew he would implode...sure enough everyone wants him gone now. They had a very good 2012, they made a lot of three point shots and had an excellent shooting year. For all that, they still got eliminated in the second round of the playoffs. How about accumulating assets and building this team the right way? Melo was dumb to re-sign here and it would be best for BOTH parties if a trade was explored. Rondo is not putting this team into title contention, he will put them, maybe in a 42-48 win range. And for all the Knicks fans who say this is just a 'throw away' year, the last 15 years have been a fucking throw away year with the exception of 11 & 12.

Knicks Future has never looked brighter...Top pick coming, a ton of cap space and a star already in place..

Seven-foot center Miroslav Raduljica is expected to become available in free agency within the next one-to-two weeks depending on a buyout settlement with Shandong of the Chinese Basketball Association, sources told RealGM.

Raduljica has received interest from several NBA teams for a midseason acquisition, sources said, but no deal would take place before the Jan. 10 date for contract guarantees around the league.

In comment 12040949 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12040932 Sean said: Quote: they've been running around in circles since 2000 acquiring guys like Antonio McDyess, Stephon Marbury, Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Amare, & Melo. They're just throwing darts against the wall, there is no plan. I used to defend Donnie Walsh, but he had no plan either. He created cap room and once he couldn't land any of the top dogs, he wasted it on a banged up Amare (who I like, but wasn't a good signing). The players above all would work under the right enviorment (see Randolpoh), but it's just such a mess with this franchise. I never liked JR, I knew he would implode...sure enough everyone wants him gone now. They had a very good 2012, they made a lot of three point shots and had an excellent shooting year. For all that, they still got eliminated in the second round of the playoffs. How about accumulating assets and building this team the right way? Melo was dumb to re-sign here and it would be best for BOTH parties if a trade was explored. Rondo is not putting this team into title contention, he will put them, maybe in a 42-48 win range. And for all the Knicks fans who say this is just a 'throw away' year, the last 15 years have been a fucking throw away year with the exception of 11 & 12. Knicks Future has never looked brighter...Top pick coming, a ton of cap space and a star already in place..

trading any picks for Rondo would be a huge mistake. I hope Phil sticks to the plan.

Facing the basket, Raduljica did not appear to be incredibly consistent with his jump-shot from the tape we evaluated, but looked to be quite a bit more effective in the live games we were at, knocking down a number of jumpers from both inside and outside the arc, and looking very comfortable hitting shots consistently when we observed him in warm-ups. The fact that he sports solid mechanics, has very good touch and shoots 77% from the free throw line indicates that he should have no problem developing into a solid catch and shoot mid-range threat in the NBA.

Raduljica is a lot more skilled than the typical 6-11 center you�ll find at the college ranks, as not only can he score facing or with his back to the basket, and is a very creative passer, but he�s also an above average ball-handler. We saw him put the ball on the floor and create his own shot on a couple of occasions, getting to the rim off a couple of dribbles and still having the body control to finish effectively. These are not easy moves to make for a player his size to make.

Defensively is where Raduljica might have the most question marks regarding his NBA potential. He gives up position too easily at times in the low post, and doesn�t always fight as hard as you might hope to keep his man off the block, possibly to avoid foul trouble. He doesn�t rotate all that well from the weak-side to protect the paint either, not being much of a shot-blocker at all due to his lack of explosiveness, and shows just average awareness, intensity and hustle on this end of the floor.

Seeing heavy minutes alongside similarly sized center Peja Samardziski, Raduljica�s lateral quickness doesn�t appear to be anything special out on the perimeter, often looking heavy footed and at times a bit disinterested, which probably will become more of an issue in today�s pick and roll heavy NBA.

Just an average rebounder, Raduljica is capable of going out and grabbing the boards that are in his immediate area, but he�s not intense or explosive enough to go out of his area for the most part. This is something that he must improve on if he wants to become a legit rotation player in the NBA, as he won�t be anywhere as much of an offensive option as he currently is for FMP.

Off the court, Raduljica is reportedly a very intelligent person and is often described as a book worm by those that have been around him the most.

All in all, Raduljica displays many intriguing characteristics at his size that are increasingly difficult to find in college basketball, making him a fairly interesting draft prospect that should certainly get some looks from NBA teams drafting in the latter part of the first round. Concerns about his interest level in playing in the NBA and whether or not he�ll even come over if locked into an unattractive salary slot will likely drop him a bit further that, but considering the premium NBA teams put on size and the amount of money that is thrown at middling backup centers, Raduljica has to be viewed as a pretty attractive option early in the second round.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3MGHZZ2ti
http://www.draftexpress.com

In comment 12040904 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

guy we should 100% target in the off-season Link - ( New Window )

When did Queen Amidala start playing basketball?

sounds like a guy Phil might have interest in. Good passer, intelligent.

trade a pick until 2018 if the Knicks were to get him I'd assume it would be in a 3 team deal with another team sending them a draft pick.

I think the Knicks need to stay the course and continue the road to a top 3 pick. It will be a major asset with cap space and a star in place.

I just wish the media would stop calling this season a disaster and not look at the big picture of the position this team could be in during the offseason.

This kind of embarassing press is what makes Dolan do crazy things.

Calderon and JR gone. Clear the books Phil and completely tank. Where is a realistic destination for Calderon? Is he even tradeable at this point?

Cuban really fleeced the Zen Master on the Chandler trade. Not only did he not get back any valuable players or picks, he hurt the teams cap for an additional 2 years.

In comment 12040984 River Vale NJ Fan said:

Quote:

I think the Knicks need to stay the course and continue the road to a top 3 pick. It will be a major asset with cap space and a star in place. I just wish the media would stop calling this season a disaster and not look at the big picture of the position this team could be in during the offseason. This kind of embarassing press is what makes Dolan do crazy things.

they can't help themselves. They'd rather the team goes 41-41 and plays 4-5 playoff games rather than tank/rebuild. But then come the summer they'll write how they'd have been better off rebuilding.

This offseason's cap room is also being highly overblown. The knicks will probably only have about 20 mill in cap room. If they can dump JR and Calderon then that clears another 13 mill. Given the state of this roster, 20 mill in cap room isn't cutting it.

can't imagine many people would be pro "trade the 2015 pick" to land Rondo if that were an option. Whether you LOVE the top 3 in this draft or not, there is still a shot one (or all 3) become young, cheap superstars. Rondo will not be young, or cheap. Further a young, cheap top 5 talent is a major trade chip if a superstar becomes available.

In comment 12040995 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

This offseason's cap room is also being highly overblown. The knicks will probably only have about 20 mill in cap room. If they can dump JR and Calderon then that clears another 13 mill. Given the state of this roster, 20 mill in cap room isn't cutting it.

$20 million puts you in play for Monroe and maybe one other decent piece. I'll take it.

In comment 12040994 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 12040984 River Vale NJ Fan said: Quote: I think the Knicks need to stay the course and continue the road to a top 3 pick. It will be a major asset with cap space and a star in place. I just wish the media would stop calling this season a disaster and not look at the big picture of the position this team could be in during the offseason. This kind of embarassing press is what makes Dolan do crazy things. they can't help themselves. They'd rather the team goes 41-41 and plays 4-5 playoff games rather than tank/rebuild. But then come the summer they'll write how they'd have been better off rebuilding.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but why wouldn't they consider trading for Rondo though? It's a long shot to begin with because I can't believe the Celtics are excited about trading him to the Knicks of all teams. Not to mention we don't have much to offer anyway. However, they did just sign a 30 year old to a 6 year deal and I am sure they'd like to surround him with talent while he's still in his prime.

In comment 12040996 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

can't imagine many people would be pro "trade the 2015 pick" to land Rondo if that were an option. Whether you LOVE the top 3 in this draft or not, there is still a shot one (or all 3) become young, cheap superstars. Rondo will not be young, or cheap. Further a young, cheap top 5 talent is a major trade chip if a superstar becomes available.

Not a chance in Hell I'd trade the 2015 pick if we could. No chance whatsoever.

the outside chance a Kevin Durant type ever becomes available you need to nail a high lottery pick.

Leaving aside the fact that Wright is a UFA, he's a guy who I just dont trust the advanced stats on. His PERs ave been 17.2, 18.7, 15.9, 16.2, 15.5, 21.6, 21, 23.5, and 26.1. For a center, that is occasional all star type production (especially the dallas years).

So why did GSW give up on him (traded for a fading Troy Murphy). Why has no coach ever seen fit to give him as many as 19 minutes per game in any season (about why NYK gave Novak)? Why was he getting less run than Dalembert, Kaman, and Brand in Dallas? I honestly dont know, but I think you need to take his efficiency #s with a HUGE grain of salt -- his career WS/48 exceeds that of Rondo, KG, Kobe, Dwight, both Gasols, Nash, Pierce, Bosh... and Hakeem, Dr. J, McHale, Moses Malone, Clyde, Ewing and Pippen.

Monroe and another decent player makes this roster a good team? The knicks are so far away its crazy. Monroe, Melo, Hardaway and Calderon are all really bad defenders.

which player on the Knicks has more value than Wright and his POTENTIAL ability to perform with more minutes AND the Mav's 2015 pick vs. the Knicks 2018 pick? Coaches make mistakes all the time.

I dont think the Knicks have much to offer. Neither of my posts suggested otherwise. I just dont think that a Mavs #1 (so likely to be sucky or way in the future) plus a pending UFA ostensibly great BENCH big is a good return for a PG who brings what Rondo brings. He's not a superstar player but he can lockdown on D and run an offense. Plus he competes like crazy and has the championship pedigree.

In comment 12041011 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12040994 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 12040984 River Vale NJ Fan said: Quote: I think the Knicks need to stay the course and continue the road to a top 3 pick. It will be a major asset with cap space and a star in place. I just wish the media would stop calling this season a disaster and not look at the big picture of the position this team could be in during the offseason. This kind of embarassing press is what makes Dolan do crazy things. they can't help themselves. They'd rather the team goes 41-41 and plays 4-5 playoff games rather than tank/rebuild. But then come the summer they'll write how they'd have been better off rebuilding. I'm not saying you're wrong, but why wouldn't they consider trading for Rondo though? It's a long shot to begin with because I can't believe the Celtics are excited about trading him to the Knicks of all teams. Not to mention we don't have much to offer anyway. However, they did just sign a 30 year old to a 6 year deal and I am sure they'd like to surround him with talent while he's still in his prime.

I would have concerns about committing 5 years and big money to him. Boston was, for the most part, an average team on offense with him at the helm despite playing with 3 HOFers. But there's no denying his defense and passing. He's clearly better than anyone we've had at PG in a LONG time. But is he the guy you commit to long term at this point in his career? I'm just not sure.

Knicks "best" asset is THjr, an AWFUL defensive player with zero rebounding ability who isn't even shooting well. There are TONS of instant offense 2/3's in the NBA. It's not a very appealing/rare skillset.

In comment 12041043 Deej said:

Quote:

I dont think the Knicks have much to offer. Neither of my posts suggested otherwise. I just dont think that a Mavs #1 (so likely to be sucky or way in the future) plus a pending UFA ostensibly great BENCH big is a good return for a PG who brings what Rondo brings. He's not a superstar player but he can lockdown on D and run an offense. Plus he competes like crazy and has the championship pedigree.

I don't believe either team has a great package to offer. Just believe the Mavs vs. Knicks, the Mavs are more appealing if we are talking talent/assets. Mavs could probably include some guys like Ledo (upside) and Crowder (meh, but could be a solid role guy), the Knicks have very, very little to trade.

In comment 12041029 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

Monroe and another decent player makes this roster a good team? The knicks are so far away its crazy. Monroe, Melo, Hardaway and Calderon are all really bad defenders.

So say Knicks sign Rondo and Monroe and add Okafor in the draft...

Rondo THJR Melo Monroe Okafor is not a much better team than they have this year? That team could compete in the East very quickly...

For a franchise saving talent. Rondo is good but not that good.

In comment 12041061 djm said:

Quote:

For a franchise saving talent. Rondo is good but not that good.

There is only 3 players i would trade that pick for, Lebron, Durant, or Davis and thats it..

And kobe of course....

Jk

mike fisher @fishsports � 13m 13 minutes ago

#MAVS Wright-Felton package benefit to #Celtics for #Rondo : Boston could add both using TEs + $12.9 mil TE for later use.

In comment 12041064 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12041061 djm said: Quote: For a franchise saving talent. Rondo is good but not that good. There is only 3 players i would trade that pick for, Lebron, Durant, or Davis and thats it..

really? Not Curry, Harden, Blake, CP3, Wall, Love?

In comment 12041056 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12041029 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: Monroe and another decent player makes this roster a good team? The knicks are so far away its crazy. Monroe, Melo, Hardaway and Calderon are all really bad defenders. So say Knicks sign Rondo and Monroe and add Okafor in the draft... Rondo THJR Melo Monroe Okafor is not a much better team than they have this year? That team could compete in the East very quickly...

Rondo is getting a max deal close to 20 mill that will take up all of the Knicks current cap space. If they dump calderon and JR then maybe they could fit in Monroe too but its doubful. And that will leave them with no money to build a bench or other players.

On paper that team should definitely be able to contend in the east but making that team happen is very slim odds.

In comment 12041076 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 12041064 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12041061 djm said: Quote: For a franchise saving talent. Rondo is good but not that good. There is only 3 players i would trade that pick for, Lebron, Durant, or Davis and thats it.. really? Not Curry, Harden, Blake, CP3, Wall, Love?

Curry yes, harden no, Blake yes, CP3 no, Wall yes, Love No

im perfectly fine getting Rondo, but just wait until the offseason and try to sign him. No reason to get him this year and if he gets traded and ends up resigning with that team then so be it. Rondo is a good player but i wont be heart broken if we dont get him, as we have discussed he is an ehh fit for the triangle anyway.

And how can BOS make this trade with TPE? Wright + Felton is pretty close to Rondo's salary. The mavs are over the cap so they need to send out as much as they are receiving so they cant trade WRight/Felton for the TPE and then still take back Rondo unless they are trading other players to match Rondo's salary. Or am i misunderstanding that tweet.

In comment 12041078 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 12041056 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12041029 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: Monroe and another decent player makes this roster a good team? The knicks are so far away its crazy. Monroe, Melo, Hardaway and Calderon are all really bad defenders. So say Knicks sign Rondo and Monroe and add Okafor in the draft... Rondo THJR Melo Monroe Okafor is not a much better team than they have this year? That team could compete in the East very quickly... Rondo is getting a max deal close to 20 mill that will take up all of the Knicks current cap space. If they dump calderon and JR then maybe they could fit in Monroe too but its doubful. And that will leave them with no money to build a bench or other players. On paper that team should definitely be able to contend in the east but making that team happen is very slim odds.

Do you know how max deals work? not every players max deal is the same...

Rondo's max deal starts at around 15-16 million...Knicks have 23 million in space, if they get rid of JR they will have around 29-30 million in space...

Monroe's deal starts at around 12 or 13 million...

In comment 12041072 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

mike fisher @fishsports � 13m 13 minutes ago #MAVS Wright-Felton package benefit to #Celtics for #Rondo : Boston could add both using TEs + $12.9 mil TE for later use.

huh?

but Rondo/Monroe is possible this offseason. You would lose shump and at least one of calderon/JR (prefereably both). If we ended up with Okafor id be thrilled with that offseason obviously.

Rondo
THJR?
Melo
Okafor
Monroe

Would still have to build, but that is going to be the case no matter what. You arent going to build a championship team in just one offseason.

expands on it here-


A Wright-Felton (or Wright-Harris) package would have an added benefit to Boston that might prove beneficial later. The Celtics could add both players using existing trade exceptions and create a $12.91 mil trade exception for use later.

And Boston will need to find some benefits here. Rondo's stock is down. He'll leave there in July. We've always thought the price would be much higher than this and maybe it will be, if a team outbids Dallas. (Sources tell us the Rockets are mucking things up here, and logically the Lakers and others are visiting with Boston, too.) There is plenty of time for the Celtics to salvage something out of him ... maybe the TE's represent that.

the mavs cant get Rondo without sending out salary. Right now the trade would have to be Wright/Felton for Rondo. Nobody would get a TPE in that deal.

how would Boston get a trade exception? Both teams have to send out money to make the deal work...neither team can absorb contracts so how is Boston getting a TPE?

This guy sounds like he doesnt know what he is talking about

In comment 12041080 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12041076 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 12041064 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12041061 djm said: Quote: For a franchise saving talent. Rondo is good but not that good. There is only 3 players i would trade that pick for, Lebron, Durant, or Davis and thats it.. really? Not Curry, Harden, Blake, CP3, Wall, Love? Curry yes, harden no, Blake yes, CP3 no, Wall yes, Love No

Are you kidding me? I can see arguments against Paul (age) and Love, but Harden? He's arguably the MVP of the league this year.

In comment 12041090 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

expands on it here- A Wright-Felton (or Wright-Harris) package would have an added benefit to Boston that might prove beneficial later. The Celtics could add both players using existing trade exceptions and create a $12.91 mil trade exception for use later. And Boston will need to find some benefits here. Rondo's stock is down. He'll leave there in July. We've always thought the price would be much higher than this and maybe it will be, if a team outbids Dallas. (Sources tell us the Rockets are mucking things up here, and logically the Lakers and others are visiting with Boston, too.) There is plenty of time for the Celtics to salvage something out of him ... maybe the TE's represent that.

Deals like this do happen when what appears to be one trade is actually 2 trades involving different moving parts...but this doesn't make sense. Boston can certainly take back Wright and Felton using the TPE's, but I don't' see how they can just send Rondo to Dallas without taking money back (which is what would have to happen to get the $12.9 million TPE). Dallas would need to carve out enough room under the cab to absorb Rondo's deal, and simply removing Felton/Wright doesn't accomplish that.

In comment 12041104 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12041080 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12041076 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 12041064 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12041061 djm said: Quote: For a franchise saving talent. Rondo is good but not that good. There is only 3 players i would trade that pick for, Lebron, Durant, or Davis and thats it.. really? Not Curry, Harden, Blake, CP3, Wall, Love? Curry yes, harden no, Blake yes, CP3 no, Wall yes, Love No Are you kidding me? I can see arguments against Paul (age) and Love, but Harden? He's arguably the MVP of the league this year.

I jsut dont think harden and Melo would mesh well...

Harden is great when he is the ball dominant player and can create his own offense and dominate the scoring...him and Howard work well together because Howard is better off of pick and roll rather than straight post up...

Now if you ask me Melo for Harden straight up...i am driving Melo to Houston myself...

else. But in a two team trade, they'd only get the diff between Rondo and the two guys they got.

In comment 12041112 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 12041104 EricNY33 said: Quote: In comment 12041080 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12041076 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 12041064 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 12041061 djm said: Quote: For a franchise saving talent. Rondo is good but not that good. There is only 3 players i would trade that pick for, Lebron, Durant, or Davis and thats it.. really? Not Curry, Harden, Blake, CP3, Wall, Love? Curry yes, harden no, Blake yes, CP3 no, Wall yes, Love No Are you kidding me? I can see arguments against Paul (age) and Love, but Harden? He's arguably the MVP of the league this year. I jsut dont think harden and Melo would mesh well... Harden is great when he is the ball dominant player and can create his own offense and dominate the scoring...him and Howard work well together because Howard is better off of pick and roll rather than straight post up... Now if you ask me Melo for Harden straight up...i am driving Melo to Houston myself...

He worked well with Durant and Westbrook, didn't he?

team, I just don't see the match. I wouldn't want to do it if we had to take back salaries that go beyond this season and I don't think we can get him for THJR and Shump.

I am not saying Harden is not a great player and if Melo wasnt here i would do the trade in a second...

My main reason is the fit its not the talent of Harden...

is that the same Corey Brewer the Knicks waived a few years ago before he ever played a game for them? that Corey Brewer?

Rondo, but i dont think he is worth giving up the few assets we have and taking back salary which is most likely what would have to happen. If they want Shump or THJR and a couple seconds and spare parts for Rondo then sure, but otherwise we need to keep the few assets we have and try to sign him in the offseason. Plus we need to keep sucking and getting Rondo would make us a much better team. Could take a top 5 pick and turn it into a late lottery pick.

In comment 12041136 Mike in St. Louis said:

Quote:

is that the same Corey Brewer the Knicks waived a few years ago before he ever played a game for them? that Corey Brewer?

Donnie was a fucking moron.

In comment 12041152 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 12041136 Mike in St. Louis said: Quote: is that the same Corey Brewer the Knicks waived a few years ago before he ever played a game for them? that Corey Brewer? Donnie was a fucking moron.

I will never forget what Dumbtoni said about him...saying he only plays defense we really dont have use for him...

for this as a guy who hates his game, but Harden isnt even in the top 3 of MVP discussion.

Davis, Curry, Lebron have been the 3 best players in the league this year.

stupid like that. Nobody in their right mind would have simply cut him based on talent.

In comment 12041164 dep026 said:

Quote:

for this as a guy who hates his game, but Harden isnt even in the top 3 of MVP discussion. Davis, Curry, Lebron have been the 3 best players in the league this year.

I get it that the west is a nightmare, but I don't think a player on a .500 team has ever even sniffed the top 3 of the MVP voting. It simply doesn't happen.

In comment 12041164 dep026 said:

Quote:

for this as a guy who hates his game, but Harden isnt even in the top 3 of MVP discussion. Davis, Curry, Lebron have been the 3 best players in the league this year.

You can hate his game all you want, but he's most definitely in the discussion for MVP. The Rockets are 19-5, his defense has improved, and he's one of the most prolific offensive players in the NBA.

has been absolutely amazing since coming back

don't love Westbrook's game, but he has been amazing since his return.

In comment 12041175 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

In comment 12041164 dep026 said: Quote: for this as a guy who hates his game, but Harden isnt even in the top 3 of MVP discussion. Davis, Curry, Lebron have been the 3 best players in the league this year. You can hate his game all you want, but he's most definitely in the discussion for MVP. The Rockets are 19-5, his defense has improved, and he's one of the most prolific offensive players in the NBA.

I am not saying he shouldnt be all-NBA or anything cause he deserves it. And his overall game has improved. But he is still a 42% shooter and a 32% 3 point shooter who is 2nd in the NBA in turnovers.

He is AWESOME getting to the line, which makes his stat line better.

�Tyson�s supposed to be a great defensive player, but they still sent double- and triple-teams at me,� Stoudemire said. �So that�s kind of a compliment if you ask me. For a guy known for his defensive presence the team still sends a double-team. It shows the coaching staff still has a lot of respect for my inside game.�

In comment 12041186 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 12041175 EricNY33 said: Quote: In comment 12041164 dep026 said: Quote: for this as a guy who hates his game, but Harden isnt even in the top 3 of MVP discussion. Davis, Curry, Lebron have been the 3 best players in the league this year. You can hate his game all you want, but he's most definitely in the discussion for MVP. The Rockets are 19-5, his defense has improved, and he's one of the most prolific offensive players in the NBA. I am not saying he shouldnt be all-NBA or anything cause he deserves it. And his overall game has improved. But he is still a 42% shooter and a 32% 3 point shooter who is 2nd in the NBA in turnovers. He is AWESOME getting to the line, which makes his stat line better.

Allen Iverson won a MVP once shooting 42% from the floor and 32% from three getting to line 10 times per game.

Harden's game has flaws but you cannot deny he's been one of the best players in the league this season.

In comment 12041198 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

�Tyson�s supposed to be a great defensive player, but they still sent double- and triple-teams at me,� Stoudemire said. �So that�s kind of a compliment if you ask me. For a guy known for his defensive presence the team still sends a double-team. It shows the coaching staff still has a lot of respect for my inside game.�

There's no love lost between those two, that's for sure. I always thought Chandler's comments about players not being on the same page on defense was a direct shot at Amar'e.

But Anthony Davis stat line has been just as impressive and he may be in the DPOY race as well.

Steph Curry's numbers are better and he plays on the best team. And Lebron's numbers have been as well.

He is definitely the start guard on the WC for the all-start team and playing at 1st team ALL NBA level. I just think the other 3 have been better.

out tonight, Melo questionable

He might be the dumbest great player (or once great player) in the league.

Quote:

Al Iannazzone ‏@Al_Iannazzone So the Knicks could be without Carmelo, Amar'e, JR Smith, Shumpert and Bargnani tonight for a TNT game.

Chuck is going to have a ball.

that the first game in Chicago since the FA Summer and Melo's not playing with knee soreness. We know it's a legitimate injury so he's not faking it, but it just seems weird he's not playing tonight.

i have no idea why i still go over there...people on that site have already said Phil is finished and he should be fired because his plan has blown up...i mean really after 27 games its already over?

In comment 12041210 dep026 said:

Quote:

But Anthony Davis stat line has been just as impressive and he may be in the DPOY race as well. Steph Curry's numbers are better and he plays on the best team. And Lebron's numbers have been as well. He is definitely the start guard on the WC for the all-start team and playing at 1st team ALL NBA level. I just think the other 3 have been better.

I think Davis has been slightly better than Harden (emphasis on slightly), but the Pelicans are not going to make the playoffs and I can't see the voters giving out an MVP to a player on a lottery team.

In comment 12041264 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

i have no idea why i still go over there...people on that site have already said Phil is finished and he should be fired because his plan has blown up...i mean really after 27 games its already over?

Phire Phil?:)

Okafor finally goes up against some legit size tonight...

who want to get rid of this regime already never understood it from the beginning. Do you think any of us enjoy losing? No, but we know the plan and are dealing with it. Now if next year comes and this team isn't improving then people can get up in arms. It's just too soon.

In comment 12041278 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Okafor finally goes up against some legit size tonight...

Who? Brimah?

but is anyone on bbi suggesting we move on from this regime already or are we referring to realgm? I just want to know who I have to ignore in the future. Thanks.

a RealGM thread. Not here. At least I haven't seen anyone say that here.

In comment 12041278 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Okafor finally goes up against some legit size tonight...

Yes, I'm sure that after beating Wisconsin in Madison that playing 4-3 UConn in Cameron will really scare Duke.

No one hates Duke more than I do, and I'd be thrilled to see them lose, but UConn is going to get smoked.

This plan is working out better than any of us could have hoped for. We knew we were banking on next years cap space/free agency. What we all thought would happen this year is that we'd be a solid, middle of the road team that isn't bad enough to tank but isn't good enough to do anything in the playoffs when we inevitably make it.

I was on record not liking this Tyson Chandler trade because I think Jose Calderon is an old overpaid PG, Shane Larkin is a backup PG at absolute best, and Dalembert is fucking awful. I'm now head over heels in love with the trade because there is no way we'd be this bad of a team with Tyson on it. That trade took us from a playoff team, to a lottery team. And we should be grateful for that.

Is that there probably isn't a future superstar in this draft.Other than that, lose away!

In comment 12041522 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Is that there probably isn't a future superstar in this draft.Other than that, lose away!

Who knows, no one thought Damian Lillard would turn into a star. Even if we can get a very good cost controlled player that will be great. This team already has a superstar and a ton of cap space. Just give us an above average starter at their respective position.

In comment 12041518 AnotherGiantsFan said:

Quote:

This plan is working out better than any of us could have hoped for. We knew we were banking on next years cap space/free agency. What we all thought would happen this year is that we'd be a solid, middle of the road team that isn't bad enough to tank but isn't good enough to do anything in the playoffs when we inevitably make it. I was on record not liking this Tyson Chandler trade because I think Jose Calderon is an old overpaid PG, Shane Larkin is a backup PG at absolute best, and Dalembert is fucking awful. I'm now head over heels in love with the trade because there is no way we'd be this bad of a team with Tyson on it. That trade took us from a playoff team, to a lottery team. And we should be grateful for that.

I don't think Calderon is old or overpaid. I think that we're just seeing first hand how inconsequential the PG is in the Triangle offense. In a more traditional offense where the PG has more ball handling duties I think Calderon would be putting up better numbers and I also think we'd be a better team. This team just isn't a good fit for the Triangle.

I'd love to see Okafor on the Knicks.

In comment 12041505 kmed said:

Quote:

but is anyone on bbi suggesting we move on from this regime already or are we referring to realgm? I just want to know who I have to ignore in the future. Thanks.

Kmed its only realgm as far as i know havnt seen anyone here...

And when i said Okafor gets to go up against some size this game i was referring to the 20-20 game he had against Elon whose tallest player was 6'8"

Lets just hope that Dolan isn't that idiot.

I do give him credit because to this point at least it appears he really has stepped out of the decision making process and completely turned it over to Phil.

In comment 12041534 steve in ky said:

Quote:

Lets just hope that Dolan isn't that idiot. I do give him credit because to this point at least it appears he really has stepped out of the decision making process and completely turned it over to Phil.

he has done it with the Rangers because he trusts Sather, if trusts Phil he will stay out of it, I hope...

Is if this draft class was 2013 bad where we end up with an Otto Porter as our top 5 pick. That would just be an absolute fucking soul crusher.

Eric, you can argue whether or not Jose Calderon is overpaid because of the cap spike that is going to happen, but the man is old. He's 33 years old and under contract until like 36-37.

hockey.

In comment 12041539 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

hockey.

Greg, I believe I read once where he actually grew up a big hockey fan (supposedly through his dad being a fan) and actually fancies himself much more knowledgeable about hockey than basketball which he never really followed as much growing up.

In comment 12041526 AnotherGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 12041522 Greg from LI said: Quote: Is that there probably isn't a future superstar in this draft.Other than that, lose away! Who knows, no one thought Damian Lillard would turn into a star. Even if we can get a very good cost controlled player that will be great. This team already has a superstar and a ton of cap space. Just give us an above average starter at their respective position.

I think any of the prospective top 3 (Okafor, Muiday, Towns) all have the ability to be a superstar player. I also think we need to remember that certain players weren't picked as superstar players who now have become them. James Harden is one of those players. He went 3rd, but I don't think anyone saw him becoming this kind of player.

I think what I like about the top 3 here is they all have something that is elite. Okafor is already a polished low post scorer. Mudiay is an elite athlete. Towns is a really good defensive player. They all have an elite skill and that's something you want to build around.

Stanley Johnson reminds of the kind of player you are talking about. Will be a hustle intangible player at first who will make the athletic plays, but can develop into a Kawhi Leonard/Jimmy Butler type of player.

Okafor has phenominal footwork for a guy his size. Real DMC like in that regard. Love the fact he's already 270+ as well.

Mudiay is a big PG that is athletically gifted and seems to actually play like a PG. The lack of that quick first step scares me a bit, but it's not the end of the world. Can be a real nice two way player.

Towns seems like a triangle big man.

I haven't had much time to watch much college ball. This is mostly off DraftExpress stuff I've watched. I don't think this class is 2013 bad.

Johnson will have a long NBA career and if he can continue working on his shot he has "3rd best player on a championship team" upside. That's not a knock, that's praise. A lot to like.

pretty confident Kmed is an intelligent person but in case I'm wrong, the Phire Phil comment was a joke.

In comment 12041589 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

pretty confident Kmed is an intelligent person.

Dont put the house on it...

a genius, but most of those people are in my head.

part about Johnson is he's got a great physique and loves playing defense/being physical. He has offense, this isn't some Shumpert type where it's 100% "projection" but there is a lot to build on. Johnson potentially could guard 2-4's

In comment 12041605 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

part about Johnson is he's got a great physique and loves playing defense/being physical. He has offense, this isn't some Shumpert type where it's 100% "projection" but there is a lot to build on. Johnson potentially could guard 2-4's

This.

It's not like this guy has no handles to get to the basket and can't make a jump shot right now. He has handles, he has a jump shot. He's just not a phenomenal ball handler with a knockdown jumper. He can easily improve in both, and he is known for his work ethic. I think he has the highest ceiling and highest floor.

It's amazing how he's 19 and carries 240+ pounds so easily. Just rock solid. Could add another 10 pounds in a blink of an eye.

Will start off as a hustle player who makes transition buckets and guards multiple positions. Could end up being a really good two way player.

Responder to a Sheridan article

from Newsday...

"Anthony's situation is a concern because it's been ongoing and there has been talk of him needing surgery to fix the problem. Neither the Knicks nor Anthony had ever said what his ailment is. But Anthony, who missed a game last week because of his knee, said he aggravated it Tuesday during the game against Dallas.

"I've had multiple people say kind of just shut it down or just take time off," Anthony said at Thursday's morning shootaround. "At the end of the day it's hard for me to just do that right now with what's happening with the team. So I'm just trying to be smart about it."

Anthony was asked what it's going to take for him to shut it down.

"I don't know, man," he said. "I take some days off, some days it feels like I can go. Some days it feels like I have everything. The other day it was sore in the first half. I didn't have no lift on my shot. In the second half my lift came back a little bit. It's going to be off and on like that."

Anthony said he would test it at shootaround and see how he feels before the game. If he sits, it will give him three days off. Anthony said the Knicks "shut me down" Wednesday and wouldn't let him take part in practice."

Link - ( New Window )

He could use a tune up. Doesn't sound like a major injury. Sounds like a getting older injury that surgery should help take care of. The only thing stopping Melo from doing it is because I don't think he's ever had surgery done before and is against it at all costs.

Shut him down, let him heal. Gives us an opportunity to tank while simultaneously giving our rookie HC the pass of the century for our shitty record. Let Melo be back at 95% next year, DFish with a year of coaching under his belt, and a top 5 pick and other FA signees added to the team.

Quote:

�Tyson�s supposed to be a great defensive player, but they still sent double- and triple-teams at me,� Stoudemire said. �So that�s kind of a compliment if you ask me. For a guy known for his defensive presence the team still sends a double-team. It shows the coaching staff still has a lot of respect for my inside game.�

1) Teams sends a double-team at you because they can, given this Knicks team.

2) On the other hand, on defense, sending a double-team gets the defensive presence all the way up to one. If that.

shut down Melo. Perfect scenario for the Knicks.

media really caters to the lowest common denominator. The Knicks absolutely SUCKING this year is GOOD long term. Media narrative implying otherwise is comical

Will also surely increase trade value for a Shumpert, THJr, JR Smith type of player on this team. With Melo gone, someone is going to be given the green light to shoot. Get those garbage numbers inflated and trade them.

In comment 12041746 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

media really caters to the lowest common denominator. The Knicks absolutely SUCKING this year is GOOD long term. Media narrative implying otherwise is comical

Agree 100%. The media hates covering teams that lack the day-to-day drama of caring about wins and losses. So they're just pretending that the Knicks are a failure rather than rebuilding

Frank Isola ‏@FisolaNYDN 1m1 minute ago

The Knicks, according to @WojYahooNBA, declined to be part of a three-way deal involving Rajon Rondo, who would not have been traded to NY.

Been a season ticket holder since 1986, and have many friends and relatives who are rapid Knick fans.

I can't find one who is disappointed with this season thus far. This was always going to be a rebuilding year and having one of the worst records in the league this year, is far superior to fighting for that last playoff slot.

Isaiah spent five years here fighting for a last playoff spot, that did not work out well.

Now, IMHO, the Knicks have an able leader in Phil Jax, should have a very high pick and have significant cap space over the next two years if handled correctly.

This might not add up to a title, but it will likely add up to a competitive team with title hopes.

I'll take it.

to offer in return for Rondo. Wright is decent and all but you're going to get Rondo for a guy like him and a late first round pick? When the Celtics already should have various high first rounders? Come on now. It would have to be some kind of three way deal. Even then, I doubt Wright, a late first rounder and whatever other small parts are thrown in are enough.

is a free agent after the season, so is there a track record of players (and I think Rondo is top 5 at his position when healthy), getting back better than what Dallas is offering?

I'd assume whoever he's traded to would have a stipulation they negotiate an extension with him first or I'd expect even less back.

1. He has already gotten a taste of the triangle. Most of the guys currently in uniform will not be Knicks down the road, so developing chemistry with his current teammates is meaningless.

2. Amare and JR's numbers will go up, making it easier to trade them at the deadline, even if it is only for a second rounder. The higher JR's numbers are, the less likely he is to pick up his option.

3. No Melo all but guarantees a bottom three finish.

And watch the Duke vs UConn game so I salivate over a potential Knick as opposed to watching the Knicks get curb stomped on natty TV.

I really hope Melo doesn't play tonight.

For wright crowder and nelson and 2 picks

Which is cool. I have no problems with Dallas. Let Dirk get another chip.

shutting it down for the foreseeable future? Phil should just say "You're not playing anymore" and that should be the end of it. Playing on a bum knee for a shit team makes no sense.

I can stomach a bad season like this, but I cannot stomach watching Melo look like STAT for the rest of his contract because he tried to push through a knee injury.

In comment 12042037 Shockeyisthebest80 said:

Quote:

shutting it down for the foreseeable future? Phil should just say "You're not playing anymore" and that should be the end of it. Playing on a bum knee for a shit team makes no sense. I can stomach a bad season like this, but I cannot stomach watching Melo look like STAT for the rest of his contract because he tried to push through a knee injury.

As much as I love Melo, he is notorious for exaggerating injury situations. I'm not saying the injury isn't serious, but he always makes sure to let the media know that he's really hurt and that he's muscling through it. He always wants to look like a hero.

In comment 12042037 Shockeyisthebest80 said:

Quote:

shutting it down for the foreseeable future? Phil should just say "You're not playing anymore" and that should be the end of it. Playing on a bum knee for a shit team makes no sense. I can stomach a bad season like this, but I cannot stomach watching Melo look like STAT for the rest of his contract because he tried to push through a knee injury.

Hall of fame resume takes a hit if you wipe out a "full" season as does his final "record". He's already 41st all-time in scoring