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TC doesn't play Washington at WR because of Special Teams?

Ken from Flushing : 12/18/2014 9:33 am
It appears Coach Coughlin does not want to play Corey Washington in the offense because his special teams play is not good enough.

I thought it was some stupid reason like he cannot get off the line, or he runs bad routes, or he drops the ball too much in practice.

I am reassured it is for a much better reason.

I don't know how Eli gets on the field at all these last 10 years, I hear his ST play stinks.
Why Corey Washington Doesn't Play More - ( New Window )
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week, not year  
NYGmen58 : 12/18/2014 12:26 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Anyone who says thins like  
Danny Kanell : 12/18/2014 12:28 pm : link
In comment 12041347 NYGmen58 said:
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In comment 12041329 Danny Kanell said:


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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:


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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.

Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.



To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.



Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.

So that was a swing and a miss by you.



How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.



Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.

Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.

You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.


Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.
You play the rookie  
Randy in CT : 12/18/2014 12:31 pm : link
if/when they are an upgrade over whatever vet presense they have. Re: Washington, who I'd like to see play (and I thought I saw him in there recently?), he HAS to play Specials or you are using him at WR and perhaps a different player on STs instead of the two-fer that you expect from Rookies.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Anyone who says thins like  
NYGmen58 : 12/18/2014 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12041356 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041347 NYGmen58 said:


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In comment 12041329 Danny Kanell said:


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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:


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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:


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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:


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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.

Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.



To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.



Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.

So that was a swing and a miss by you.



How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.



Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.

Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.

You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.



Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.


Dude, nothing personal, but I asked the board to provide one example of Coughlin not playing a rookie simply because they were a rookie and the "example" you gave wasn't even a rookie. Moreover, it was devoid of any key facts that support your claim, in fact, what's more embarrassing is that that the player you mentioned was given opportunities in WEEK 1 of that season. I'm not trying to be a douchebag but you embarrassed yourself on here by making a statement without thinking it through. I am sure people who are reading this thread are laughing at you and your "example". I know I am.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Anyone who says thins like  
Danny Kanell : 12/18/2014 12:40 pm : link
In comment 12041373 NYGmen58 said:
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In comment 12041356 Danny Kanell said:


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In comment 12041347 NYGmen58 said:


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In comment 12041329 Danny Kanell said:


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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:


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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:


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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:


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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.

Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.



To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.



Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.

So that was a swing and a miss by you.



How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.



Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.

Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.

You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.



Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.



Dude, nothing personal, but I asked the board to provide one example of Coughlin not playing a rookie simply because they were a rookie and the "example" you gave wasn't even a rookie. Moreover, it was devoid of any key facts that support your claim, in fact, what's more embarrassing is that that the player you mentioned was given opportunities in WEEK 1 of that season. I'm not trying to be a douchebag but you embarrassed yourself on here by making a statement without thinking it through. I am sure people who are reading this thread are laughing at you and your "example". I know I am.


Cool.
stop fucking quoting each other, pricks.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/18/2014 12:42 pm : link
.
If the guy sucks on STs  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2014 12:47 pm : link
and isn't good enough at WR to see the field, why are we wasting a roster spot on him? You'd think a 5-9 team would need every player to be a contributor.
RE: This is such bullshit.  
diable : 12/18/2014 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12040981 Victor in CT said:
Quote:


Wilson didn't play because HE DIDN'T KNOW THE PLAYBOOK! Jerrold Ingram said so publicly.


Victor this is NOT TRUE.
You also might be wise to consider  
nicky43 : 12/18/2014 1:01 pm : link
That Tom was forced to answer a question and maybe he had to format that answer such that he doesn't uncover a weakness in Washington's WR play the he sees and that the other teams could exploit during a game if he exposed it.

So just because Tom didn't point to any particular WR play weaknesses, that does not mean he doesn't see any in Corey.

Terrible post by someone who doesn't understand  
WillieYoung : 12/18/2014 1:07 pm : link
the relationship between excelling on special teams and being given a shot in the offense.

Special teams is about imposing your will. To excel you have to want to carry out your assignment more than your opponent wants to stop you. if you can do that consistently you can be trusted to fight through traffic to get to your assignment on a route rather than take the long way around and hang your quarterback out to dry. Running pretty routes in your underwear in practice doesn't help a bit when the "bullets are flying". When you saw Jesse Armstead play special teams, you knew he was going to be a star some day.
As bad as CW is on specials  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2014 1:07 pm : link
Nassib must REALLY suck on them, lol.
RE: I don't know if Corey Washington is going to be a good NFL WR  
nicky43 : 12/18/2014 1:10 pm : link
In comment 12041194 Ken from Flushing said:
Quote:
But there are some things I do know:

1. Randle, Parker, and Ogletree don't scare anyone.

2. Cruz is a ? for next year.

3. What impressed me about CW in the preseason was not the touchdowns. It was that he caught the high pass. Barden was tall, but he couldn't catch balls higher than his shoulders. CW can.

4. I would rather find out now if he is any good or not. Not after 3 years like we do with so many of our receivers.


This is your problem...YOU want to find out now if CW can play. But Tom already knows this from watching him in practice sessions and in meetings where he gets to see CW play every week and you don't. So clearly Tom gets to see more of CW's play than any of us yet YOU have to see it during a game regardless if the coach thinks he's ready or not! LOL!
re  
diable : 12/18/2014 1:10 pm : link
The problem is that rookies make mistakes. And Coughlin has no patience for rookie mistakes.
RE: re  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2014 1:11 pm : link
In comment 12041446 diable said:
Quote:
And Coughlin has no patience for rookie mistakes.


Doesn't stop him from playing Eli :)
RE: re  
Victor in CT : 12/18/2014 1:14 pm : link
In comment 12041446 diable said:
Quote:
The problem is that rookies make mistakes. And Coughlin has no patience for rookie mistakes.


I know. You can see why. When you have veterans like Beckham, Williams, Richburg, Kennard why play a rookie?
He's played in every game but 1  
HomerJones45 : 12/18/2014 1:15 pm : link
of course the dunces don't notice when he's out there unless he catches a pass so they assume he isn't getting any PT.

Granted he did attend that football factory at Newberry so he should be immediately beating out 3 and 4 year vets because, because he's tall.
RE: RE: re  
nicky43 : 12/18/2014 1:18 pm : link
In comment 12041458 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12041446 diable said:


Quote:


The problem is that rookies make mistakes. And Coughlin has no patience for rookie mistakes.



I know. You can see why. When you have veterans like Beckham, Williams, Richburg, Kennard why play a rookie?


LOL! Good one Victor!
RE: RE: I don't know if Corey Washington is going to be a good NFL WR  
jeff57 : 12/18/2014 1:21 pm : link
In comment 12041445 nicky43 said:
Quote:
In comment 12041194 Ken from Flushing said:


Quote:


But there are some things I do know:

1. Randle, Parker, and Ogletree don't scare anyone.

2. Cruz is a ? for next year.

3. What impressed me about CW in the preseason was not the touchdowns. It was that he caught the high pass. Barden was tall, but he couldn't catch balls higher than his shoulders. CW can.

4. I would rather find out now if he is any good or not. Not after 3 years like we do with so many of our receivers.




This is your problem...YOU want to find out now if CW can play. But Tom already knows this from watching him in practice sessions and in meetings where he gets to see CW play every week and you don't. So clearly Tom gets to see more of CW's play than any of us yet YOU have to see it during a game regardless if the coach thinks he's ready or not! LOL!


Yes, Tom knows from all this. That's why he started Kiwanuka game after game. He's all knowing and infallible.
re  
diable : 12/18/2014 1:23 pm : link
bill

Kurt Warner had 6 td passes in 9 games. He wasn't exactly lighting it up.

RE: re  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2014 1:25 pm : link
In comment 12041480 diable said:
Quote:
bill

Kurt Warner had 6 td passes in 9 games. He wasn't exactly lighting it up.


I was referring to the rookie mistakes that Eli still makes
re  
diable : 12/18/2014 1:27 pm : link
Victor.

He didnt have a choice to play those rookies.
Bill in UT  
diable : 12/18/2014 1:33 pm : link
The moment they started Eli, there was no turning back.
RE: Terrible post by someone who doesn't understand  
NYGmen58 : 12/18/2014 1:34 pm : link
In comment 12041439 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
the relationship between excelling on special teams and being given a shot in the offense.

Special teams is about imposing your will. To excel you have to want to carry out your assignment more than your opponent wants to stop you. if you can do that consistently you can be trusted to fight through traffic to get to your assignment on a route rather than take the long way around and hang your quarterback out to dry. Running pretty routes in your underwear in practice doesn't help a bit when the "bullets are flying". When you saw Jesse Armstead play special teams, you knew he was going to be a star some day.


Best post of the thread. The OP knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Gee, who to support on this difficult question  
HomerJones45 : 12/18/2014 2:27 pm : link
In this corner: a two-time Super Bowl Champion coach who has taken two separate franchises to the Conference championship game who in all probability will be enshrined in the HOF

or

In that corner: a bunch of fans who scout from their armchairs.

Tough choice
we sign eli  
wash88 : 12/18/2014 2:27 pm : link
No $$$ to sign good players.
Same bargain injured guys.
Draft doesnt matter because
coaches suck. Gilbride says
this O isnt for Eli. Not mobile.
Mara has to fire whole staff
but won't so don't get excited.
If he extends Tc..2 to 3 more
years cause he won't fire him
and pay.
You think washinton  
wash88 : 12/18/2014 2:29 pm : link
Will learn from our ST
and WR coach?
RE: Gee, who to support on this difficult question  
jeff57 : 12/18/2014 2:34 pm : link
In comment 12041611 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In this corner: a two-time Super Bowl Champion coach who has taken two separate franchises to the Conference championship game who in all probability will be enshrined in the HOF

or

In that corner: a bunch of fans who scout from their armchairs.

Tough choice


Yeah, let's just shut down this board. And instead we can spend all day kissing Tom Coughlin's ass and watching him walk on water.
I'm a TC guy... but this is just stupid  
GloryDayz : 12/18/2014 2:54 pm : link
nothing more to say really
So TC is stuborn, old school  
Watson : 12/18/2014 3:46 pm : link
because he is not rewarding Washington with more game offensive snaps despite the fact he is not performing well in his current roll which for a 4th or 5th WR is ST. Got it.
RE: You think washinton  
vibe4giants : 12/18/2014 3:54 pm : link
In comment 12041617 wash88 said:
Quote:
Will learn from our ST
and WR coach?


^^^^^^^^

Talks of not learning, yet still hasn't mastered either line breaks nor not being a racist.





This can not be right  
NYDCBlue : 12/18/2014 4:00 pm : link
The writer must have misunderstood TC.

Not being good on special teams absolutely will prevent you from getting a uniform on Sundays. You only get to hand out 45 of them, and special teams are 1/3 of the game, but Washington has been dressing the last several weeks, so I fail to see what his special teams play has to do with his play time on offense.

I really think this reporter just was not paying close enough attention to the meaning of Coughlin's words.
RE: This can not be right  
Watson : 12/18/2014 4:32 pm : link
In comment 12041807 NYDCBlue said:
Quote:
The writer must have misunderstood TC.

Not being good on special teams absolutely will prevent you from getting a uniform on Sundays. You only get to hand out 45 of them, and special teams are 1/3 of the game, but Washington has been dressing the last several weeks, so I fail to see what his special teams play has to do with his play time on offense.

I really think this reporter just was not paying close enough attention to the meaning of Coughlin's words.


That's possible, the reporter is Graziano, The Pineapple. However, Washington is currently I believe the 5th WR so either he needs to do better in practice to move up the depth chart or needs to perform better at ST to be rewarded. It sounds like TC is not displeased with his practise at WR but not enough to be promoted. Hence, "he needs to get better at his job" which currently is ST.
RE: Of course the irony is that Coughlin insists of keeping Quinn  
oipolloi : 12/18/2014 4:54 pm : link
In comment 12041010 jeff57 said:
Quote:
as special teams coach. Someone who does more damage to the special teams than anyone else.



Best comment on the whole thread.

Quinn must do a hell of job coaching during practice.
Who gives a crap if Washington is ready to be  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2014 4:59 pm : link
the #3 WR? I just want him to get a chance to do what he did well in preseason, make some TD catches in the red zone. Instead of throwing fades to Randle.
ROFL at these Joe Pa fanatics  
Mason : 12/18/2014 5:06 pm : link
Many of these guys were siding with Coughlin about Cruz's inability to produce on ST as reason why Stokley was the right choice and then rambled how he was "coached up" when he began putting up numbers when Stokley got hurt.
Coughlin is an expert talent evaluator  
cosmicj : 12/18/2014 5:10 pm : link
and he is more than an expert but an absolute authority on WR play, the position he coached early in his NFL career. If he isn't playing Washington, it's because Washington isn't good enough. It's that simple.
Since it's obvious that this coaching staff only plays guys after  
Jupiter : 12/18/2014 5:15 pm : link
they earn their stripes in practice and on specials, why does the FO keep drafting WRs and RBs who never played special teams in college - except as returners - when you can only have max. 2 returners on the field at a time?
Washington is undrafted  
cosmicj : 12/18/2014 5:18 pm : link
I also like another theme running through here, that Randle is so worthless that he should be benched for a UDFA. I think the Randle-hate on BBI is losing its tether with reality.
RE: Who gives a crap if Washington is ready to be  
Watson : 12/18/2014 5:28 pm : link
In comment 12041868 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
the #3 WR? I just want him to get a chance to do what he did well in preseason, make some TD catches in the red zone. Instead of throwing fades to Randle.


For all team sport coaches, it's always a difficult balancing act; giving playing time to developmental players vs being fair to the rest of the team (they want to win). Washington has been given offensive snaps in all but one game. If published stats I've seen are correct, he has had 8 targets with 5 receptions. IIRC one of those balls he could not bring in was a fade in the end zone.
Without reading the whole thread...  
Damon : 12/18/2014 5:30 pm : link
Because the OP is pretty lame...

A couple things...

First, let's not make Washington out to be some sort of star that is being kept off the field... IF he was showing up in practice enough to unseat the guys in front of him... He'd be playing.

Secondly... The inactive list has written itself due to injuries pretty much all season... So I'd bet there were times when he got a shirt by default.

I hope he turns the corner next year and can become a good find for us. But between Donnell, Randle and OBJ we're not devoid of endzone fade candidates. Just coz Washington caught a ton of fades in the preseason against guys presently in the arena league doesn't mean he's the next Victor Cruz.

RE: Washington is undrafted  
Bill in UT : 12/18/2014 5:55 pm : link
In comment 12041893 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I also like another theme running through here, that Randle is so worthless that he should be benched for a UDFA. I think the Randle-hate on BBI is losing its tether with reality.


Cruz was an UDFA. You think Randle is better than him?
Damon agree  
Watson : 12/18/2014 6:03 pm : link
Also should have noted in my post above, Washington was given 20 offensive snaps in the 1st Redskin game. To date the most offensive plays. A game we had well in hand and before OBJ was ready.
Yes the brain trust on BBI is always correct on back up players  
montanagiant : 12/18/2014 7:41 pm : link
I mean they see so much of their daily effort and practice...amaright????
RE: Since it's obvious that this coaching staff only plays guys after  
TMS : 12/19/2014 11:40 am : link
In comment 12041887 Jupiter said:
Quote:
they earn their stripes in practice and on specials, why does the FO keep drafting WRs and RBs who never played special teams in college - except as returners - when you can only have max. 2 returners on the field at a time?
Because the HC is not telling the GM and his assistant who to draft and they do not comprehend team needs only measurables that they can look up.
RE: Put me  
dguy901 : 12/19/2014 12:44 pm : link
In comment 12040961 TMS said:
Quote:
with the half that wants TC to make those decisions based on what he sees in practice and is told my his coaches.
TC and staff have ruined decent players by not teaching and playing them versus less talented vets with game experience. There would be no possible way TC could "not" play a #1 draft pick! Explain why OG Herman has not seen the field yet? During training camp and pre-season all I heard were good things about him. I guarantee he is already better than Jerry and he might be better than Richburg at guard. Moore is a disruption to opposing offenses yet, how many snaps did he get when it could have made the difference? Why hasn't Darkwa relieved Williams or Jennings in a material way, they just keep crying the talent isn't there, they don't have a change of pace RB! JMHO.
The stupidity on this board is maddening  
Modus Operandi : 12/19/2014 2:33 pm : link
Let me pose a simple question..

If Washington hadn't (yet) dedicated or distinguished himself to/on special teams, why should he be entrusted in becoming an integral part of the offense?

The answer is, of course, he should't. But don't let that stand in the way of the good (and predictable) anti-Coughlin rhetoric.

"He doesn't play young players," being one.

RE: After we get steam rolled  
dcable : 12/19/2014 6:04 pm : link
In comment 12040979 phil fromphilly said:
Quote:
the next 2 weeks and everyone gets their pitchforks back out this will be one of the reasons folks want to see TC retire. Sometimes players just don't practice well but know how to ball out come game time. With all of the other injuries at WR this dude should be on the field a whole lot more. Tom needs to get the young guys some reps in this lost season to see who those real gamers are. Didn't we just go through this last year with ownership wondering aloud why some of the young guys didn't see the field more?


Even if we get steamrolled, many here will still want TC retained. This is now a BIG joke!! The problem is simple, some people get older and think their smarter than others. Hence, they become totally stubborn. If the reason is true not allowing Washington to showcase himself, is just one more example why he should be fired
Can we NOT act like TC makes the right decisions 100%  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 12/19/2014 6:35 pm : link
of the time? In 2006 after Petitgout's season-ending injury, Coughlin let Bob "Headbutt" Whitfield start 6 games while Rich Seubert languished on the bench. TC's reasoning was that he didn't want to play Diehl at tackle. Luckily, he changed his mind right before his job was on the line in week 17. Tiki Barber responded with his 234 yard-rushing day and the rest is history.
This is maddening,  
#10* : 12/21/2014 8:12 am : link
If this is true, TC should be confronted and if he doesn't change his stance you have to look for a new coach. Pre-season we lose all those games if Washington doesn't play. Nassib to Washington was the story of the preseason. I don't even think Eli completed 10 passes in those games. By that logic if Cruz sucked at specials we would have never seen the salsa dance.

Wake up call to Coughlin your special teams has never been that good so the person you should bench is your ST's coordinator.
RE: And people keep saying that Gilbride and Fewell  
mrvax : 12/21/2014 9:35 am : link
In comment 12040915 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
are/were the problems for why promising guys don't get PT. But I'm sure half of BBI will come down on TCs side on this, as with everything.


Not so Bill. I rarely hear a poster blame that on anyone but Coughlin. (Right where the blame belongs.)
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