It appears Coach Coughlin does not want to play Corey Washington in the offense because his special teams play is not good enough.
I thought it was some stupid reason like he cannot get off the line, or he runs bad routes, or he drops the ball too much in practice.
I am reassured it is for a much better reason.
I don't know how Eli gets on the field at all these last 10 years, I hear his ST play stinks.
Why Corey Washington Doesn't Play More - (
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Washington is this year's Jernigan.
And you would be jumping down his throat if he did it and Eli got hurt.
For most coaches, if there are not going to be a big set of plays for you on offense, the easiest way to make an impact is on special teams.
Washington for whatever reason, hasn't done it. Kickoffs, punts, FG team. There is no good reason why he hasn't.
It is a totally fair request. Does Washington have an explanation as to why he hasn't made ANY impact at all in an area that is 1/3rd of the game and can make a difference in a W or L?
From a WR coaching perspective, maybe he's a pinball for the receiving team and can't/doesnt have the ability or agility to avoid hits down field on covering punts, which may say something about his ability to get off the line when he's at WR. Also on Giants receiving punts maybe his blocking also sucks, which can make a difference of a big gain or big loss on a sweep play when he is at WR
It's a total expected skill set thing.
It is a totally fair request. Does Washington have an explanation as to why he hasn't made ANY impact at all in an area that is 1/3rd of the game and can make a difference in a W or L?
If he did I'm guessing it would start with 6'4" and end with 214 lbs....not the ideal size for a STer
A big reason why we need a new coach. He'll use any excuse not to play certain guys, especially if they're younger players. And this is excuse is bullshit because I remember him praising Washington's special teams play in preseason.
No, Tom would rather play that future star Kevin Ogletree than giving the rookie a shot.
Now he is getting a uniform because of the injuries but he is still the 4th or 5th receiver. We absolutely never go with 5 WR sets so if he is 5 he will never play. If he is 4 then he will likely see only a few plays each game and over the past several weeks with leads we have only used 4 WR sets on a very few occasions.
Huh!? Rookies are playing and contributing way more this year than any other year under Killdrive. If you think OBJ would be anywhere close to as effective in that complicated shitstorm of an offense then I don't have anything left to say to you.
It's the same nonsense that Coughlin pulled with David Wilson - he seems insistent on spiting these players who can be legitimate contributors to the team just because they don't rise up to his absurd set of standards.
Then this is the same argument about Barden years ago.
Barden would be a weekly scratch in the same role Washington is now.
He could never crack the top 4 of the WR chart and never could make an impact on specials as many speculated it was due to his height/weight, so he was an afterthought to the coaching staff.
Clearly there has been an opening in the WR depth chart to move up and he couldn't get past Preston Parker, a middling at best NFL player?
That to me is on him. He needs to do everything to get people to notice him day in and day out. It appears he hasn't been able to.
Wilson didn't play because HE DIDN'T KNOW THE PLAYBOOK! Jerrold Ingram said so publicly.
Ramses Barden SUCKED. He could not run routes or get separation. He was about as good as Adrien Robinson.
And Jernigan SUCKS more than any of them.
Ogletree has played 4, Robinson has 14, Williams has 14, Fells 14 games they all have one tackle so they are killing it on ST right? Just look at the list of our reserves and see who is making the tackles on special it's a very short list.
Kevin Ogletree has bounced around like a ping pong ball and he's seeing offensive snaps. He's not exactly beaming with talent or in the plans for our future.
This isn't about skill, it';s about personnel decisions based off of an old school mindset and unwillingness to change.
Also, I believe CW has been active for most of the games through the season. So if his ST skills are poor and he won't play him at WR, why?
This pretty much sums it all up.
Guy is raw, good chance he never pans out to much, if he is not giving a quality effort in the roles he has on the team why would he be made a starter?
It's a meritocracy, you earn the PT you're given by proving yourself in practice. He's given the PT coaches feel he has earned and won't fuck up in games.
It's a meritocracy, you earn the PT you're given by proving yourself in practice. He's given the PT coaches feel he has earned and won't fuck up in games.
Well, it should be a meritocracy. But to read his comments, he speaks highly of his work as a receiver in practice, then says the reason he doesn't have a role on the offense is because he doesn't make any plays on special teams.
Retro makes good points above.
Having said that, I seriously doubt the win/loss record will have any bearing on Reese or Coughlin. The owners most likely brought McAdoo here to replace Coughlin at some point (they would prefer an in-house transition, and McAdoo has been talked about as HC material in other circles). Its clear he's not ready yet because he has yet to prove he can run an offense let alone a team.
Fewell will be this year's scape goat, but seriously, the entire defensive coaching staff should be fired as well.
But if he is already suited up on gameday what's the point of not giving him offensive reps?
If he just isn't prepared for the offense, then be clear that is the reason he doesn't get looks or opportunities.
(Just what did Plax do on STs?)
2. Maybe the guy wasn't ready earlier in the year. He came from Newberry College. Anyone know where that is? Same deal with Wynn. We wring our habds. . . why did it take so long to get in there. . . maybe he needed that practice time to learn the NFL game.
3. This is not the year to cry 'TC doesn't play rookies' It's silly./ It was never true, particularly this year. Honestly, i think the overall youth and inexperience has cost us a game or 2 this year. it was nec and should serve us going forward.
Things like this point to a coaches trust in that player. If he can't do what is asked of him all year, why would he trust that he'll be able to go in and execute on offense?
Things like this point to a coaches trust in that player. If he can't do what is asked of him all year, why would he trust that he'll be able to go in and execute on offense?
or maybe he just doesn't have the physical tools to play that role.
You can't just will yourself to be a good special teams player
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This is how most, if not all, coaches operate.
It's a meritocracy, you earn the PT you're given by proving yourself in practice. He's given the PT coaches feel he has earned and won't fuck up in games.
Well, it should be a meritocracy. But to read his comments, he speaks highly of his work as a receiver in practice, then says the reason he doesn't have a role on the offense is because he doesn't make any plays on special teams.
Exactly! Some guys are completely missing the point. Nobody is saying he should be playing if he is not showing well in practice or in limited game time. The criticism is of the excuse given for not playing him ... special teams. To me that's dumb. if he's not showing enough at WR, then don't play him at WR. If he's not showing enough on ST, then don't play him on ST. Not playing him at WR because of poor ST play is just as head scratching as not playing a good ST player on SP because hes not showing well at WR
I like Washington and was happy to see him make a catch last week but he is buried behind a lot of other more versatile and more experienced wideouts.
I love how some of you conveniently forget he was thrown a fade on first and goal in the very first game of the season against the Lions which he could not come down with.
I'm sorry but everything in this game is earned. He needs to make the most of his opportunities and prove he deserves more playing time. Whether it's on special teams, in practice, or in limited game snaps.
Shame on any of you couch potato losers bashing Coach Coughlin. Go back to your Madden video games and fantasy football leagues.
Victor in CT : 9:48 am : link : reply
In comment 12040924 JFIB said:
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But that shit is maddening. It's reasons like this that I think it's time to move on from him. The game has passed him by. This is right up there with "i don't do QB sneaks" on 4th and an inch with the game on the line when your running game hasn't worked all day!
And you would be jumping down his throat if he did it and Eli got hurt.
You are worried about Eli getting hurt doing a qb sneak? Then you probably can't sleep nights, thinking Eli is going back to pass behind this OL?
Must admit, one of the things that really bugs me about this team, on offense and defense is, I don't think we use our players to their best advantage....we force players to play a system, rather than use the strengths of the individual talents of the players? Afraid of failure? Look at the failure of this team as it is.....conservatism in coaching has cost this team too many games over the years, and hindered it's progress....this team does not take chances, on play calling, or using players, until they are forced to...
John Brown. Cardinals. This season.
I like Washington and was happy to see him make a catch last week but he is buried behind a lot of other more versatile and more experienced wideouts.
I love how some of you conveniently forget he was thrown a fade on first and goal in the very first game of the season against the Lions which he could not come down with.
I'm sorry but everything in this game is earned. He needs to make the most of his opportunities and prove he deserves more playing time. Whether it's on special teams, in practice, or in limited game snaps.
Shame on any of you couch potato losers bashing Coach Coughlin. Go back to your Madden video games and fantasy football leagues.
I'll say it once more. The criticism is not that he doesn't get to play, its the REASON give for his lack of playing time that's being criticized. If there are other reasons, fine. But thats' not what the thread is about.
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How many small school WR's do you see excelling in the NFL in their rookie season? Ever.
John Brown. Cardinals. This season.
John Brown is the exception, not the rule. The kid was also drafted in the 3rd round for a reason. He clearly has talent. CW went undrafted for a reason.
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How many small school WR's do you see excelling in the NFL in their rookie season? Ever.
John Brown. Cardinals. This season.
The kid Gabriel on the Browns is also doing pretty well too. Went to Abilene Christian.
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
An absolutely bullshit assumption with no evidence whatever to back it up. Bravo!
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
That's the philosophy that resulted in Kiwanuka starting every game until he got hurt. And if he hadn't gotten hurt, he'd still be starting, despite his horrible on field production. And Moore would still be languishing on the bench.
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is not earned during preseason games or in some cases during regular season games. It's earned in the film room, on the practice field, in the weight room, group meetings, etc. That's where these guys are auditioning - not against 3rd and 4th string depth guys during a relative shitshow in the fourth quarter of a preseason game.
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
I didn't say that. But if you have half a brain you would realize that he's not getting 1st team reps during the week on offense for a reason. But yet many of you are clammoring for him to play on Sundays no matter what?
Is this really that difficult to understand?
Victor in CT : 9:48 am : link : reply
In comment 12040924 JFIB said:
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But that shit is maddening. It's reasons like this that I think it's time to move on from him. The game has passed him by. This is right up there with "i don't do QB sneaks" on 4th and an inch with the game on the line when your running game hasn't worked all day!
And you would be jumping down his throat if he did it and Eli got hurt.
You are worried about Eli getting hurt doing a qb sneak? Then you probably can't sleep nights, thinking Eli is going back to pass behind this OL?
Must admit, one of the things that really bugs me about this team, on offense and defense is, I don't think we use our players to their best advantage....we force players to play a system, rather than use the strengths of the individual talents of the players? Afraid of failure? Look at the failure of this team as it is.....conservatism in coaching has cost this team too many games over the years, and hindered it's progress....this team does not take chances, on play calling, or using players, until they are forced to...
Yes, I do fear for Eli every time he drops back! :-)
But Doom, that is why TC won't do it. He doesn't believe in exposing the QB.
1. Randle, Parker, and Ogletree don't scare anyone.
2. Cruz is a ? for next year.
3. What impressed me about CW in the preseason was not the touchdowns. It was that he caught the high pass. Barden was tall, but he couldn't catch balls higher than his shoulders. CW can.
4. I would rather find out now if he is any good or not. Not after 3 years like we do with so many of our receivers.
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is not earned during preseason games or in some cases during regular season games. It's earned in the film room, on the practice field, in the weight room, group meetings, etc.
That's the philosophy that resulted in Kiwanuka starting every game until he got hurt. And if he hadn't gotten hurt, he'd still be starting, despite his horrible on field production. And Moore would still be languishing on the bench.
One could argue that the Kiwi thing is Hassselbeck-esque when he was with Philly.
Regardless, comparing an aging vet with history to a new guy playing STs is a bit much, no?
But you can't have it both ways with one player, right? That player either performs enough in practice and everything outside Sunday to get a shot or he doesn't. I would think TC and the staff are adept at making that determination.
Certainly, a bunch of ham n eggers like us can't be called upon to make that call, right?
B in ALB's breakdown is more than likely accurate, and can be applied to any player who shows promise in pre-season, and then can't get on the field for reps during the regular season.
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In comment 12041148 B in ALB said:
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is not earned during preseason games or in some cases during regular season games. It's earned in the film room, on the practice field, in the weight room, group meetings, etc. That's where these guys are auditioning - not against 3rd and 4th string depth guys during a relative shitshow in the fourth quarter of a preseason game.
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
I didn't say that. But if you have half a brain you would realize that he's not getting 1st team reps during the week on offense for a reason. But yet many of you are clammoring for him to play on Sundays no matter what?
Is this really that difficult to understand?
What's difficult to understand is where you have read that "many are clammoring for him to play on Sundays no matter what." It's so simple ... whether, and how much he plays at WR should depend on how well he plays/practices at WR. Frankly I find it difficult to understand how that is even arguable. Is this really so difficult to understand?
My guess is that if he is having trouble on ST, it's not because of a lack of effort, but because his body type may not lend itself to success in that part of the game. As somebody noted, he is 6'4". Lack of success on ST should therefore not preclude him from playing WR, especially since he has produced at that position. Should we not play Hankins at DT because he would probably suck at ST?
It's a different story entirely if he's not playing more at WR because he needs more time to adjust to the speed of the NFL. We've already had enough miscommunication INTs between Eli and RR. But not playing him at WR because despite his best efforts he's unproductive on ST seems ridiculous.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
If you remember going back, Pugh only got into the lineup with Diehl got hurt in the Colts game at home in the preseason and was lost for several months.
The Giants were going to use him sparingly until that injury forced him into the lineup full-time. They were going to do the same with Richburg until Schwartz got hurt in the Jets game this year.
David Wilson only got 125 offensive snaps in 2012. 79 of them game in the last 4 games of that season when the team ran out of running backs after Bradshaw went down and Brown broke his leg (remember Kregg Lumpkin?).
TC has had a general pattern with rookies and that is to ease them in slowly as opposed to just handing them jobs and throwing them out there. I think most coaches would operate under that philosophy.
Of course, injury situations the last few years have altered those plans. Guys have been pressed into action, take their lumps and battle through.
B in ALB's breakdown is more than likely accurate, and can be applied to any player who shows promise in pre-season, and then can't get on the field for reps during the regular season.
Jon, you're probably right. I guess I have a problem with people touting their superior intellect by refuting claims that haven't been made. It happens often on BBI
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
And honestly, at this point, with two games left I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing him out there a bit more provided he's getting reps in practice. But earlier in the season i can see the coaching staff's moves a bit clearer.
For all we know, the kid has the potential to be really good. But maybe he's not doing the little things in practice on offense like blocking, running the correct route, lining up correctly, not committing penalties, dropping balls, etc. We all know TC is all about the details and finer points. None of us are at practice so it's all speculation to a point.
What's not speculation is that there is a reason the kid isn't playing more and it's a hell of a lot more complicated than "TC doesn't play rookies" or "It's all because of his ST play."
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
I stated that I like TC and want him to be retained. My contention is that IF the reason that Washington is not playing WR is that he hasn't been good on ST, then TC is being very old school stubborn. Now, as JonC has observed, that may have been an off hand comment and not entirely true. I still want TC retained. No coach is perfect, nor are BBI posters :)
And honestly, at this point, with two games left I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing him out there a bit more provided he's getting reps in practice. But earlier in the season i can see the coaching staff's moves a bit clearer.
For all we know, the kid has the potential to be really good. But maybe he's not doing the little things in practice on offense like blocking, running the correct route, lining up correctly, not committing penalties, dropping balls, etc. We all know TC is all about the details and finer points. None of us are at practice so it's all speculation to a point.
What's not speculation is that there is a reason the kid isn't playing more and it's a hell of a lot more complicated than "TC doesn't play rookies" or "It's all because of his ST play."
B, can't argue with that. My posts were specifically addressed to the article's contention that it was due to ST play. It is almost certainly more than that, as you said.
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There are plenty of complainers on BBI who are arguing that he should be getting more reps at WR throughout the season. That's indisputable.
And honestly, at this point, with two games left I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing him out there a bit more provided he's getting reps in practice. But earlier in the season i can see the coaching staff's moves a bit clearer.
For all we know, the kid has the potential to be really good. But maybe he's not doing the little things in practice on offense like blocking, running the correct route, lining up correctly, not committing penalties, dropping balls, etc. We all know TC is all about the details and finer points. None of us are at practice so it's all speculation to a point.
What's not speculation is that there is a reason the kid isn't playing more and it's a hell of a lot more complicated than "TC doesn't play rookies" or "It's all because of his ST play."
B, can't argue with that. My posts were specifically addressed to the article's contention that it was due to ST play. It is almost certainly more than that, as you said.
Got it RM. It's much more than just that. Tough for some to grasp when their dislike and disapproval of TC clouds judgement.
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.
Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.
You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.
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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:
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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.
Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.
You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.
Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.
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In comment 12041329 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:
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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.
Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.
You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.
Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.
Dude, nothing personal, but I asked the board to provide one example of Coughlin not playing a rookie simply because they were a rookie and the "example" you gave wasn't even a rookie. Moreover, it was devoid of any key facts that support your claim, in fact, what's more embarrassing is that that the player you mentioned was given opportunities in WEEK 1 of that season. I'm not trying to be a douchebag but you embarrassed yourself on here by making a statement without thinking it through. I am sure people who are reading this thread are laughing at you and your "example". I know I am.
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In comment 12041329 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:
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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.
Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.
You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.
Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.
Dude, nothing personal, but I asked the board to provide one example of Coughlin not playing a rookie simply because they were a rookie and the "example" you gave wasn't even a rookie. Moreover, it was devoid of any key facts that support your claim, in fact, what's more embarrassing is that that the player you mentioned was given opportunities in WEEK 1 of that season. I'm not trying to be a douchebag but you embarrassed yourself on here by making a statement without thinking it through. I am sure people who are reading this thread are laughing at you and your "example". I know I am.
Cool.
Wilson didn't play because HE DIDN'T KNOW THE PLAYBOOK! Jerrold Ingram said so publicly.
Victor this is NOT TRUE.
So just because Tom didn't point to any particular WR play weaknesses, that does not mean he doesn't see any in Corey.
Special teams is about imposing your will. To excel you have to want to carry out your assignment more than your opponent wants to stop you. if you can do that consistently you can be trusted to fight through traffic to get to your assignment on a route rather than take the long way around and hang your quarterback out to dry. Running pretty routes in your underwear in practice doesn't help a bit when the "bullets are flying". When you saw Jesse Armstead play special teams, you knew he was going to be a star some day.
1. Randle, Parker, and Ogletree don't scare anyone.
2. Cruz is a ? for next year.
3. What impressed me about CW in the preseason was not the touchdowns. It was that he caught the high pass. Barden was tall, but he couldn't catch balls higher than his shoulders. CW can.
4. I would rather find out now if he is any good or not. Not after 3 years like we do with so many of our receivers.
This is your problem...YOU want to find out now if CW can play. But Tom already knows this from watching him in practice sessions and in meetings where he gets to see CW play every week and you don't. So clearly Tom gets to see more of CW's play than any of us yet YOU have to see it during a game regardless if the coach thinks he's ready or not! LOL!
Doesn't stop him from playing Eli :)
I know. You can see why. When you have veterans like Beckham, Williams, Richburg, Kennard why play a rookie?
Granted he did attend that football factory at Newberry so he should be immediately beating out 3 and 4 year vets because, because he's tall.
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The problem is that rookies make mistakes. And Coughlin has no patience for rookie mistakes.
I know. You can see why. When you have veterans like Beckham, Williams, Richburg, Kennard why play a rookie?
LOL! Good one Victor!
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But there are some things I do know:
1. Randle, Parker, and Ogletree don't scare anyone.
2. Cruz is a ? for next year.
3. What impressed me about CW in the preseason was not the touchdowns. It was that he caught the high pass. Barden was tall, but he couldn't catch balls higher than his shoulders. CW can.
4. I would rather find out now if he is any good or not. Not after 3 years like we do with so many of our receivers.
This is your problem...YOU want to find out now if CW can play. But Tom already knows this from watching him in practice sessions and in meetings where he gets to see CW play every week and you don't. So clearly Tom gets to see more of CW's play than any of us yet YOU have to see it during a game regardless if the coach thinks he's ready or not! LOL!
Yes, Tom knows from all this. That's why he started Kiwanuka game after game. He's all knowing and infallible.
Kurt Warner had 6 td passes in 9 games. He wasn't exactly lighting it up.
Kurt Warner had 6 td passes in 9 games. He wasn't exactly lighting it up.
I was referring to the rookie mistakes that Eli still makes
He didnt have a choice to play those rookies.
Special teams is about imposing your will. To excel you have to want to carry out your assignment more than your opponent wants to stop you. if you can do that consistently you can be trusted to fight through traffic to get to your assignment on a route rather than take the long way around and hang your quarterback out to dry. Running pretty routes in your underwear in practice doesn't help a bit when the "bullets are flying". When you saw Jesse Armstead play special teams, you knew he was going to be a star some day.
Best post of the thread. The OP knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
or
In that corner: a bunch of fans who scout from their armchairs.
Tough choice
Same bargain injured guys.
Draft doesnt matter because
coaches suck. Gilbride says
this O isnt for Eli. Not mobile.
Mara has to fire whole staff
but won't so don't get excited.
If he extends Tc..2 to 3 more
years cause he won't fire him
and pay.
and WR coach?
or
In that corner: a bunch of fans who scout from their armchairs.
Tough choice
Yeah, let's just shut down this board. And instead we can spend all day kissing Tom Coughlin's ass and watching him walk on water.
and WR coach?
^^^^^^^^
Talks of not learning, yet still hasn't mastered either line breaks nor not being a racist.
Not being good on special teams absolutely will prevent you from getting a uniform on Sundays. You only get to hand out 45 of them, and special teams are 1/3 of the game, but Washington has been dressing the last several weeks, so I fail to see what his special teams play has to do with his play time on offense.
I really think this reporter just was not paying close enough attention to the meaning of Coughlin's words.
Not being good on special teams absolutely will prevent you from getting a uniform on Sundays. You only get to hand out 45 of them, and special teams are 1/3 of the game, but Washington has been dressing the last several weeks, so I fail to see what his special teams play has to do with his play time on offense.
I really think this reporter just was not paying close enough attention to the meaning of Coughlin's words.
That's possible, the reporter is Graziano, The Pineapple. However, Washington is currently I believe the 5th WR so either he needs to do better in practice to move up the depth chart or needs to perform better at ST to be rewarded. It sounds like TC is not displeased with his practise at WR but not enough to be promoted. Hence, "he needs to get better at his job" which currently is ST.
Best comment on the whole thread.
Quinn must do a hell of job coaching during practice.
For all team sport coaches, it's always a difficult balancing act; giving playing time to developmental players vs being fair to the rest of the team (they want to win). Washington has been given offensive snaps in all but one game. If published stats I've seen are correct, he has had 8 targets with 5 receptions. IIRC one of those balls he could not bring in was a fade in the end zone.
A couple things...
First, let's not make Washington out to be some sort of star that is being kept off the field... IF he was showing up in practice enough to unseat the guys in front of him... He'd be playing.
Secondly... The inactive list has written itself due to injuries pretty much all season... So I'd bet there were times when he got a shirt by default.
I hope he turns the corner next year and can become a good find for us. But between Donnell, Randle and OBJ we're not devoid of endzone fade candidates. Just coz Washington caught a ton of fades in the preseason against guys presently in the arena league doesn't mean he's the next Victor Cruz.
Cruz was an UDFA. You think Randle is better than him?
If Washington hadn't (yet) dedicated or distinguished himself to/on special teams, why should he be entrusted in becoming an integral part of the offense?
The answer is, of course, he should't. But don't let that stand in the way of the good (and predictable) anti-Coughlin rhetoric.
"He doesn't play young players," being one.
Even if we get steamrolled, many here will still want TC retained. This is now a BIG joke!! The problem is simple, some people get older and think their smarter than others. Hence, they become totally stubborn. If the reason is true not allowing Washington to showcase himself, is just one more example why he should be fired
Wake up call to Coughlin your special teams has never been that good so the person you should bench is your ST's coordinator.
Not so Bill. I rarely hear a poster blame that on anyone but Coughlin. (Right where the blame belongs.)