TC doesn't play Washington at WR because of Special Teams?

I guess he would be a gunner otherwise.

is why anti-TC people can legitimately call him stubborn. I want to retain him, but good grief, if he is a good WR, then screw special teams

are/were the problems for why promising guys don't get PT. But I'm sure half of BBI will come down on TCs side on this, as with everything.

"But he does have to become better at his job."

Washington is this year's Jernigan.

But that shit is maddening. It's reasons like this that I think it's time to move on from him. The game has passed him by. This is right up there with "i don't do QB sneaks" on 4th and an inch with the game on the line when your running game hasn't worked all day!

they would be 9-5. Please make it stop.

In comment 12040924 JFIB said:

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But that shit is maddening. It's reasons like this that I think it's time to move on from him. The game has passed him by. This is right up there with "i don't do QB sneaks" on 4th and an inch with the game on the line when your running game hasn't worked all day!

And you would be jumping down his throat if he did it and Eli got hurt.

said this in training camp about him.

For most coaches, if there are not going to be a big set of plays for you on offense, the easiest way to make an impact is on special teams.

Washington for whatever reason, hasn't done it. Kickoffs, punts, FG team. There is no good reason why he hasn't.

It is a totally fair request. Does Washington have an explanation as to why he hasn't made ANY impact at all in an area that is 1/3rd of the game and can make a difference in a W or L?

he doesn't play all out on ST.
From a WR coaching perspective, maybe he's a pinball for the receiving team and can't/doesnt have the ability or agility to avoid hits down field on covering punts, which may say something about his ability to get off the line when he's at WR. Also on Giants receiving punts maybe his blocking also sucks, which can make a difference of a big gain or big loss on a sweep play when he is at WR
It's a total expected skill set thing.

In comment 12040929 BigBlueinChicago said:

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It is a totally fair request. Does Washington have an explanation as to why he hasn't made ANY impact at all in an area that is 1/3rd of the game and can make a difference in a W or L?

If he did I'm guessing it would start with 6'4" and end with 214 lbs....not the ideal size for a STer

In comment 12040901 River Mike said:

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is why anti-TC people can legitimately call him stubborn. I want to retain him, but good grief, if he is a good WR, then screw special teams

A big reason why we need a new coach. He'll use any excuse not to play certain guys, especially if they're younger players. And this is excuse is bullshit because I remember him praising Washington's special teams play in preseason.

No, Tom would rather play that future star Kevin Ogletree than giving the rookie a shot.

need to be able to contribute on special teams in reference to Washington. What Coughlin was actually referring to was earlier in the year when Washington wouldn't even get a uniform on game day and at that point he didn't get activated because he would have been at best the 4th or 5th receiver and his teams play wasn't good enough.

Now he is getting a uniform because of the injuries but he is still the 4th or 5th receiver. We absolutely never go with 5 WR sets so if he is 5 he will never play. If he is 4 then he will likely see only a few plays each game and over the past several weeks with leads we have only used 4 WR sets on a very few occasions.

and STs in general have been mediocre at best and a lot worse other times, counting on STs plays to get you into the starting lineup seems to be a broken cycle.

have to contribute on specials, why can't you reogranize the depth chart if randle and co aren't performing?

In comment 12040915 Bill in UT said:

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are/were the problems for why promising guys don't get PT. But I'm sure half of BBI will come down on TCs side on this, as with everything.

Huh!? Rookies are playing and contributing way more this year than any other year under Killdrive. If you think OBJ would be anywhere close to as effective in that complicated shitstorm of an offense then I don't have anything left to say to you.

eliminates a 6'4" red zone target who he admitted during pre season that all Washington does is go up and catches balls merely because he doesn't do well on specials? Freekin mind boggling.

with the half that wants TC to make those decisions based on what he sees in practice and is told my his coaches.

You got the guy on the active roster every week, and you acknowledge that he's done a good job executing in the offense . . . but you keep him benched to penalize him for being poor on special teams???

It's the same nonsense that Coughlin pulled with David Wilson - he seems insistent on spiting these players who can be legitimate contributors to the team just because they don't rise up to his absurd set of standards.

Not at all surprised. If all you're running is fades in the green zone though - would make sense to have your biggest guys in there. Preston Parker over Washington on the goal line? Cmon.

In comment 12040937 Blue Baller said:

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If he did I'm guessing it would start with 6'4" and end with 214 lbs....not the ideal size for a STer

Then this is the same argument about Barden years ago.

Barden would be a weekly scratch in the same role Washington is now.

He could never crack the top 4 of the WR chart and never could make an impact on specials as many speculated it was due to his height/weight, so he was an afterthought to the coaching staff.

Clearly there has been an opening in the WR depth chart to move up and he couldn't get past Preston Parker, a middling at best NFL player?

That to me is on him. He needs to do everything to get people to notice him day in and day out. It appears he hasn't been able to.

Unfortunately he either doesn't care enough to try and find away to get Washington in the game or he's incapable of finding a way. Either is pathetic and unacceptable at this point in the season.

the next 2 weeks and everyone gets their pitchforks back out this will be one of the reasons folks want to see TC retire. Sometimes players just don't practice well but know how to ball out come game time. With all of the other injuries at WR this dude should be on the field a whole lot more. Tom needs to get the young guys some reps in this lost season to see who those real gamers are. Didn't we just go through this last year with ownership wondering aloud why some of the young guys didn't see the field more?

Has been operating this way for his ENTIRE tenure. This did not just start over the last 3-4 years. Nobody was bitching about this kinda stuff when we were winning, but now that we are losing, everyone has a problem with it.

"It's the same nonsense that Coughlin pulled with David Wilson - he seems insistent on spiting these players who can be legitimate contributors to the team just because they don't rise up to his absurd set of standards."

Wilson didn't play because HE DIDN'T KNOW THE PLAYBOOK! Jerrold Ingram said so publicly.

Ramses Barden SUCKED. He could not run routes or get separation. He was about as good as Adrien Robinson.

And Jernigan SUCKS more than any of them.

who did not do very much anywhere else when he left here, did he? Maybe TC had that right by not playing him either, or does that not fit your arguments ?

Has a thousand reason why young guys don't get on the field. Then once they are on the field you will here he needs to learn how to do this or that but it took two years to get on the field.

Ogletree has played 4, Robinson has 14, Williams has 14, Fells 14 games they all have one tackle so they are killing it on ST right? Just look at the list of our reserves and see who is making the tackles on special it's a very short list.

In comment 12040988 TMS said:

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who did not do very much anywhere else when he left here, did he? Maybe TC had that right by not playing him either, or does that not fit your arguments ?

Kevin Ogletree has bounced around like a ping pong ball and he's seeing offensive snaps. He's not exactly beaming with talent or in the plans for our future.

This isn't about skill, it';s about personnel decisions based off of an old school mindset and unwillingness to change.

He's a very raw rookie out of a small time program. He's got a ton to learn and he has to prove, in practice, that he deserves time on the field as a WR. Why is this such a hard concept here. When you guys played on teams did the coach not care about how you practiced?

I don't think our ST have been anything but mediocre to poor since he has been HC and yet he clearly does care.

Also, I believe CW has been active for most of the games through the season. So if his ST skills are poor and he won't play him at WR, why?

If they guy is no good then why does it take three or four years of learning to realize this guy is not cutting the mustard. If he was cutting guys 1st or 2nd years because they are just not good enough then we could all say he is a very good judge of talent but that is not the case.

as special teams coach. Someone who does more damage to the special teams than anyone else.

Coughlin wouldn't be the first or last NFL coach to use the media to send a message to a player.

In comment 12040997 BillT said:

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He's a very raw rookie out of a small time program. He's got a ton to learn and he has to prove, in practice, that he deserves time on the field as a WR. Why is this such a hard concept here. When you guys played on teams did the coach not care about how you practiced?

This pretty much sums it all up.

Guy is raw, good chance he never pans out to much, if he is not giving a quality effort in the roles he has on the team why would he be made a starter?

understand coughlin's explanation if washington was ruled inactive for a game. but if he's active as he has been and he can contribute on offense, he shouldn't be withheld simply because he is struggling on specials.

This is how most, if not all, coaches operate.

It's a meritocracy, you earn the PT you're given by proving yourself in practice. He's given the PT coaches feel he has earned and won't fuck up in games.

are at their best when an extra wide receiver like a Clayton or a Thomas can tackle on specials. Washington screwed up a punt-team blocking assignment that led to a partially blocked punt. He should have closed from the wing when he saw the overload. He's not good enough to play ahead of the first 3 WRs & Ogletree is a tough guy, who runs a better slant than Washington. Remember his Opening Night game a couple of years ago against the Giants? Plus he is a good tackler. By all means fire Coughlin over all of this. He makes so many mistakes judging talent.

those who've never played organized football.

In comment 12041022 JonC said:

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This is how most, if not all, coaches operate. It's a meritocracy, you earn the PT you're given by proving yourself in practice. He's given the PT coaches feel he has earned and won't fuck up in games.

Well, it should be a meritocracy. But to read his comments, he speaks highly of his work as a receiver in practice, then says the reason he doesn't have a role on the offense is because he doesn't make any plays on special teams.

and acknowledge it in public, which doesn't necessarily mean he's done enough to earn PT in games. Fans won't know the decision making details in this regard, but I can tell you it simply means he's not demonstrating enough to the coaches in practice.

Retro makes good points above.

He's not going to jeopardize his position at this point. I think the Giants get rolled big time the next two games. If the Rams can contain OBJ, the Giants may not even score. The Eagles will screen-pass the Giants helpless middle of the field defense into submission by halftime.

Having said that, I seriously doubt the win/loss record will have any bearing on Reese or Coughlin. The owners most likely brought McAdoo here to replace Coughlin at some point (they would prefer an in-house transition, and McAdoo has been talked about as HC material in other circles). Its clear he's not ready yet because he has yet to prove he can run an offense let alone a team.

Fewell will be this year's scape goat, but seriously, the entire defensive coaching staff should be fired as well.

won't play rookies comments.

football are forced to find roles and reasons to put players in position to succeed. As Retro said, WRs down the depth chart under TC are expected to be able to play specials, for example. Think of how important Devin Thomas was in 2011, as an important example of what TC is alluding to.

To me, lack of ST ability is a reason to keep a player off the 53 man roster.
But if he is already suited up on gameday what's the point of not giving him offensive reps?
If he just isn't prepared for the offense, then be clear that is the reason he doesn't get looks or opportunities.
(Just what did Plax do on STs?)

from the fact that washington didn't dress for many weeks. This is not crazy, and is actually SOP in the NFL. You only have 45 guys who dress. If you get a uniform you have to play specials. This is why Bromely (and most DTs under this regime) don't dress. There is not much of a role on ST for DT's or 6'5" WR. You can't dress a guy to play 12 snaps. There is not enough depth on game day to do that.

2. Maybe the guy wasn't ready earlier in the year. He came from Newberry College. Anyone know where that is? Same deal with Wynn. We wring our habds. . . why did it take so long to get in there. . . maybe he needed that practice time to learn the NFL game.

3. This is not the year to cry 'TC doesn't play rookies' It's silly./ It was never true, particularly this year. Honestly, i think the overall youth and inexperience has cost us a game or 2 this year. it was nec and should serve us going forward.

he has not looked good

I think it points to TC not being pleased with how hard he's working. He was basically told that to be activated on game day he would need to contribute on special teams, he's had most of the season to work at that and show improvement.

Things like this point to a coaches trust in that player. If he can't do what is asked of him all year, why would he trust that he'll be able to go in and execute on offense?

In comment 12041066 bronxct1 said:

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I think it points to TC not being pleased with how hard he's working. He was basically told that to be activated on game day he would need to contribute on special teams, he's had most of the season to work at that and show improvement. Things like this point to a coaches trust in that player. If he can't do what is asked of him all year, why would he trust that he'll be able to go in and execute on offense?

or maybe he just doesn't have the physical tools to play that role.

You can't just will yourself to be a good special teams player

want to keep Washington on the roster before the regular season started. But because Washington made so many big catches in the preseason, he couldn't, or Reese wouldn't let him, cut him. (Let that sink in). And Coughlin has shown his pique ever since.

In comment 12041026 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 12041022 JonC said: Quote: This is how most, if not all, coaches operate. It's a meritocracy, you earn the PT you're given by proving yourself in practice. He's given the PT coaches feel he has earned and won't fuck up in games. Well, it should be a meritocracy. But to read his comments, he speaks highly of his work as a receiver in practice, then says the reason he doesn't have a role on the offense is because he doesn't make any plays on special teams.

Exactly! Some guys are completely missing the point. Nobody is saying he should be playing if he is not showing well in practice or in limited game time. The criticism is of the excuse given for not playing him ... special teams. To me that's dumb. if he's not showing enough at WR, then don't play him at WR. If he's not showing enough on ST, then don't play him on ST. Not playing him at WR because of poor ST play is just as head scratching as not playing a good ST player on SP because hes not showing well at WR

.