It appears Coach Coughlin does not want to play Corey Washington in the offense because his special teams play is not good enough.
I thought it was some stupid reason like he cannot get off the line, or he runs bad routes, or he drops the ball too much in practice.
I am reassured it is for a much better reason.
I don't know how Eli gets on the field at all these last 10 years, I hear his ST play stinks.
Why Corey Washington Doesn't Play More - (
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I like Washington and was happy to see him make a catch last week but he is buried behind a lot of other more versatile and more experienced wideouts.
I love how some of you conveniently forget he was thrown a fade on first and goal in the very first game of the season against the Lions which he could not come down with.
I'm sorry but everything in this game is earned. He needs to make the most of his opportunities and prove he deserves more playing time. Whether it's on special teams, in practice, or in limited game snaps.
Shame on any of you couch potato losers bashing Coach Coughlin. Go back to your Madden video games and fantasy football leagues.
Victor in CT : 9:48 am : link : reply
In comment 12040924 JFIB said:
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But that shit is maddening. It's reasons like this that I think it's time to move on from him. The game has passed him by. This is right up there with "i don't do QB sneaks" on 4th and an inch with the game on the line when your running game hasn't worked all day!
And you would be jumping down his throat if he did it and Eli got hurt.
You are worried about Eli getting hurt doing a qb sneak? Then you probably can't sleep nights, thinking Eli is going back to pass behind this OL?
Must admit, one of the things that really bugs me about this team, on offense and defense is, I don't think we use our players to their best advantage....we force players to play a system, rather than use the strengths of the individual talents of the players? Afraid of failure? Look at the failure of this team as it is.....conservatism in coaching has cost this team too many games over the years, and hindered it's progress....this team does not take chances, on play calling, or using players, until they are forced to...
John Brown. Cardinals. This season.
I like Washington and was happy to see him make a catch last week but he is buried behind a lot of other more versatile and more experienced wideouts.
I love how some of you conveniently forget he was thrown a fade on first and goal in the very first game of the season against the Lions which he could not come down with.
I'm sorry but everything in this game is earned. He needs to make the most of his opportunities and prove he deserves more playing time. Whether it's on special teams, in practice, or in limited game snaps.
Shame on any of you couch potato losers bashing Coach Coughlin. Go back to your Madden video games and fantasy football leagues.
I'll say it once more. The criticism is not that he doesn't get to play, its the REASON give for his lack of playing time that's being criticized. If there are other reasons, fine. But thats' not what the thread is about.
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How many small school WR's do you see excelling in the NFL in their rookie season? Ever.
John Brown. Cardinals. This season.
John Brown is the exception, not the rule. The kid was also drafted in the 3rd round for a reason. He clearly has talent. CW went undrafted for a reason.
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How many small school WR's do you see excelling in the NFL in their rookie season? Ever.
John Brown. Cardinals. This season.
The kid Gabriel on the Browns is also doing pretty well too. Went to Abilene Christian.
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
An absolutely bullshit assumption with no evidence whatever to back it up. Bravo!
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
That's the philosophy that resulted in Kiwanuka starting every game until he got hurt. And if he hadn't gotten hurt, he'd still be starting, despite his horrible on field production. And Moore would still be languishing on the bench.
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is not earned during preseason games or in some cases during regular season games. It's earned in the film room, on the practice field, in the weight room, group meetings, etc. That's where these guys are auditioning - not against 3rd and 4th string depth guys during a relative shitshow in the fourth quarter of a preseason game.
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
I didn't say that. But if you have half a brain you would realize that he's not getting 1st team reps during the week on offense for a reason. But yet many of you are clammoring for him to play on Sundays no matter what?
Is this really that difficult to understand?
Victor in CT : 9:48 am : link : reply
In comment 12040924 JFIB said:
Quote:
But that shit is maddening. It's reasons like this that I think it's time to move on from him. The game has passed him by. This is right up there with "i don't do QB sneaks" on 4th and an inch with the game on the line when your running game hasn't worked all day!
And you would be jumping down his throat if he did it and Eli got hurt.
You are worried about Eli getting hurt doing a qb sneak? Then you probably can't sleep nights, thinking Eli is going back to pass behind this OL?
Must admit, one of the things that really bugs me about this team, on offense and defense is, I don't think we use our players to their best advantage....we force players to play a system, rather than use the strengths of the individual talents of the players? Afraid of failure? Look at the failure of this team as it is.....conservatism in coaching has cost this team too many games over the years, and hindered it's progress....this team does not take chances, on play calling, or using players, until they are forced to...
Yes, I do fear for Eli every time he drops back! :-)
But Doom, that is why TC won't do it. He doesn't believe in exposing the QB.
1. Randle, Parker, and Ogletree don't scare anyone.
2. Cruz is a ? for next year.
3. What impressed me about CW in the preseason was not the touchdowns. It was that he caught the high pass. Barden was tall, but he couldn't catch balls higher than his shoulders. CW can.
4. I would rather find out now if he is any good or not. Not after 3 years like we do with so many of our receivers.
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is not earned during preseason games or in some cases during regular season games. It's earned in the film room, on the practice field, in the weight room, group meetings, etc.
That's the philosophy that resulted in Kiwanuka starting every game until he got hurt. And if he hadn't gotten hurt, he'd still be starting, despite his horrible on field production. And Moore would still be languishing on the bench.
One could argue that the Kiwi thing is Hassselbeck-esque when he was with Philly.
Regardless, comparing an aging vet with history to a new guy playing STs is a bit much, no?
But you can't have it both ways with one player, right? That player either performs enough in practice and everything outside Sunday to get a shot or he doesn't. I would think TC and the staff are adept at making that determination.
Certainly, a bunch of ham n eggers like us can't be called upon to make that call, right?
B in ALB's breakdown is more than likely accurate, and can be applied to any player who shows promise in pre-season, and then can't get on the field for reps during the regular season.
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In comment 12041148 B in ALB said:
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is not earned during preseason games or in some cases during regular season games. It's earned in the film room, on the practice field, in the weight room, group meetings, etc. That's where these guys are auditioning - not against 3rd and 4th string depth guys during a relative shitshow in the fourth quarter of a preseason game.
Sure - Washington flashed ability to be an endzone threat in the preseason. Great - HE SHOULD! He's 6'4" playing against 5'10" 4th string CBs with no shot at making a team He's caught a couple of balls during the regular season. Great. So has Ogletree - a veteran player who ramps up a hell of a lot quicker than a young guy just entering the league.
But if you cannot grasp simple concepts during specials and perform well what makes anyone think that the coaching staff will suddenly say, "Hey! Forget Special Teams! Let's get this guy the ball as an integral part of our offensive gameplan!"
Come on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that he didn't play WR in practice
I didn't say that. But if you have half a brain you would realize that he's not getting 1st team reps during the week on offense for a reason. But yet many of you are clammoring for him to play on Sundays no matter what?
Is this really that difficult to understand?
What's difficult to understand is where you have read that "many are clammoring for him to play on Sundays no matter what." It's so simple ... whether, and how much he plays at WR should depend on how well he plays/practices at WR. Frankly I find it difficult to understand how that is even arguable. Is this really so difficult to understand?
My guess is that if he is having trouble on ST, it's not because of a lack of effort, but because his body type may not lend itself to success in that part of the game. As somebody noted, he is 6'4". Lack of success on ST should therefore not preclude him from playing WR, especially since he has produced at that position. Should we not play Hankins at DT because he would probably suck at ST?
It's a different story entirely if he's not playing more at WR because he needs more time to adjust to the speed of the NFL. We've already had enough miscommunication INTs between Eli and RR. But not playing him at WR because despite his best efforts he's unproductive on ST seems ridiculous.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
If you remember going back, Pugh only got into the lineup with Diehl got hurt in the Colts game at home in the preseason and was lost for several months.
The Giants were going to use him sparingly until that injury forced him into the lineup full-time. They were going to do the same with Richburg until Schwartz got hurt in the Jets game this year.
David Wilson only got 125 offensive snaps in 2012. 79 of them game in the last 4 games of that season when the team ran out of running backs after Bradshaw went down and Brown broke his leg (remember Kregg Lumpkin?).
TC has had a general pattern with rookies and that is to ease them in slowly as opposed to just handing them jobs and throwing them out there. I think most coaches would operate under that philosophy.
Of course, injury situations the last few years have altered those plans. Guys have been pressed into action, take their lumps and battle through.
B in ALB's breakdown is more than likely accurate, and can be applied to any player who shows promise in pre-season, and then can't get on the field for reps during the regular season.
Jon, you're probably right. I guess I have a problem with people touting their superior intellect by refuting claims that haven't been made. It happens often on BBI
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
And honestly, at this point, with two games left I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing him out there a bit more provided he's getting reps in practice. But earlier in the season i can see the coaching staff's moves a bit clearer.
For all we know, the kid has the potential to be really good. But maybe he's not doing the little things in practice on offense like blocking, running the correct route, lining up correctly, not committing penalties, dropping balls, etc. We all know TC is all about the details and finer points. None of us are at practice so it's all speculation to a point.
What's not speculation is that there is a reason the kid isn't playing more and it's a hell of a lot more complicated than "TC doesn't play rookies" or "It's all because of his ST play."
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
I stated that I like TC and want him to be retained. My contention is that IF the reason that Washington is not playing WR is that he hasn't been good on ST, then TC is being very old school stubborn. Now, as JonC has observed, that may have been an off hand comment and not entirely true. I still want TC retained. No coach is perfect, nor are BBI posters :)
And honestly, at this point, with two games left I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing him out there a bit more provided he's getting reps in practice. But earlier in the season i can see the coaching staff's moves a bit clearer.
For all we know, the kid has the potential to be really good. But maybe he's not doing the little things in practice on offense like blocking, running the correct route, lining up correctly, not committing penalties, dropping balls, etc. We all know TC is all about the details and finer points. None of us are at practice so it's all speculation to a point.
What's not speculation is that there is a reason the kid isn't playing more and it's a hell of a lot more complicated than "TC doesn't play rookies" or "It's all because of his ST play."
B, can't argue with that. My posts were specifically addressed to the article's contention that it was due to ST play. It is almost certainly more than that, as you said.
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There are plenty of complainers on BBI who are arguing that he should be getting more reps at WR throughout the season. That's indisputable.
And honestly, at this point, with two games left I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing him out there a bit more provided he's getting reps in practice. But earlier in the season i can see the coaching staff's moves a bit clearer.
For all we know, the kid has the potential to be really good. But maybe he's not doing the little things in practice on offense like blocking, running the correct route, lining up correctly, not committing penalties, dropping balls, etc. We all know TC is all about the details and finer points. None of us are at practice so it's all speculation to a point.
What's not speculation is that there is a reason the kid isn't playing more and it's a hell of a lot more complicated than "TC doesn't play rookies" or "It's all because of his ST play."
B, can't argue with that. My posts were specifically addressed to the article's contention that it was due to ST play. It is almost certainly more than that, as you said.
Got it RM. It's much more than just that. Tough for some to grasp when their dislike and disapproval of TC clouds judgement.
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.
Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.
You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.
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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:
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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.
Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.
You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.
Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.
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In comment 12041329 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041279 NYGmen58 said:
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In comment 12041266 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 12041256 NYGmen58 said:
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or calling Coughlin "stubborn" and "too conservative" clearly know very little about football, coaching, or leadership in general and have embarrassed themselves time after time and will continue to do so.
Give me one example of Coughlin not playing someone simply because they were a rookie.
To be fair, it took an injury to a journeyman WR they picked up off the street and a blown out knee from Hixon to give Cruz a chance before they were about to cut him (and don't give me the technicality he wasn't a rookie). It was his first year.
Danny, again you (conveniently) forget how bad a training camp and preseason Cruz had in 2011. He barely made the roster and a lot of people (including many of the experts on BBI - some rearing their air-filled heads again on this thread) thought he was a flash-in-the-pan mirage from the year before.
So that was a swing and a miss by you.
How is that a swing and a miss? You asked for an example and I gave you one. You just don't want to hear it. Just make your point then and don't ask for examples to the contrary.
Because your example made no sense lol! You cited a 2nd year player (yes, I get it, it was technically his first full season) and the reason he did not play right away was because he had a horrible camp and preseason and did not EARN the right to play over the guys who were performing better than him at the time.
Again, you CONVENIENTLY FORGET that in that opening game against Washington, he WAS the slot receiver and dropped a wide open 3rd down pass which prompted the Giants to sign Brandon Stokely the following year.
You've done a very poor job defending your argument and made yourself look pretty bad in the process (no offense). If that's the best example you can provide, I think it proves my point pretty clearly lol.
Ah, I get it now. You're not looking to have a real discussion, you're just here to be a douchebag (no offense). Carry on.
Dude, nothing personal, but I asked the board to provide one example of Coughlin not playing a rookie simply because they were a rookie and the "example" you gave wasn't even a rookie. Moreover, it was devoid of any key facts that support your claim, in fact, what's more embarrassing is that that the player you mentioned was given opportunities in WEEK 1 of that season. I'm not trying to be a douchebag but you embarrassed yourself on here by making a statement without thinking it through. I am sure people who are reading this thread are laughing at you and your "example". I know I am.