It seems dreary right now, but it's good to see that a couple wins allow some optimism, even if it's limited.
Looking back across the schedule, with a few plays here or there, we're 9-5 heading into a key game this weekend. The loss to Arizona was one that got away, and was winnable. Four OTHER losses were by a total of 20 points (including the 31-21 loss to Dallas). The other Dallas game, the 25-24 shit show and the San Fran game, asll could have been wins with a play or two, or player or two.
I'm an eternal optimist. Going draft heavy on O and D lines, as well as LB, and the luck of the draw with injuries, this club really should be back in the thick of it a year from now.
My opinion.
or if Eli get really injured unlike dodging that bullet to close out 2013 against the Skins when his ankle almost snapped.
Good lord. What if Eli tore his Achilles?
What if Beatty blew out his knee?
What if the entire defensive line was inured in a horrible bowling accident?
What if a flaming leprechaun came hurtling out of the sky and crashed into the owners box causing a chain reaction of events causing the upper deck to fall on the entire team? OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDD!!!!
Everyone needs to settle down a bit and relax.
This team is some personnel changes and confidence away from being in the mix.
Uh uh uh, but what if the Jersey Devil decides to attack Beckham while he's trying to buy a Creamsickle from the local ice cream man?
Oh my lawd! No no no! Don't say that B!
We need:
At least 2 OL (a starting LG and a versatile Boothe-type as a reserve)
Another WR opposite Odell, even if Cruz returns, and definitely if he doesn't
At least 1 DE, 2 if JPP leaves (and we'll have to draft DE in the 1st round if JPP leaves)
At least one starting DT
At least 2 LBs, and the positions are dependent on where they play Kennard. If they give Kennard the playcalling helmet next year it'll be 2 OLBs
A FS if Rolle leaves
A SS, but hopefully Cooper Taylor is finally healthy
Under performing players may very well be result of shitty play calls. Does kiwi suck, or is he the end result of poor schemes.
I personally have no clue, but I hope Reese does. Cutting players who may thrive under better coaching would be a major setback
There's a ton of questions we need to answer. Reese and Coughlin will both have their work cut out for them. If it were up to me, I would cover my bases with Cruz and draft a WR, he does not necessarily have to be Amari Cooper, we might get a decent prospect in round 2 or 3. I would also pay JPP $12m per so we don't have another void to fill. I'd also move Pugh to LG, slide Richburg to his natural position, cut bait with Walton, keep Schwartz at RG, and target Bulaga in FA. Really tough to cut bait with Beason, I'd still roll with him with the starter, but have Kennard start strong side and learn MLB just incase Beason goes down again. We'll see what Rolle wants, but I'd hate to go in and have another void, but I think Cooper Taylor and Berhe have some promise. We really need to use this draft to get an impact player with our 1st and use the rest of the draft to really shore up our depth.
Kiwi ($7.45MM cap hit for 2015). If we give him the gold watch treatment we save $4.825MM but we eat $2.625MM in dead money. So they could cut him and they'd take a small hit this year
Beason ($7.366MM cap hit for 2015). He's got 2 years left and they could cut him after June 1 but they would eat dead money as well. So I think they keep him but restructure him to push the money back to 2016. They could save $2MM in 2015 with a restructure most likely
Walton ($3.125MM cap hit for 2015). Cutting him adds 625K to the dead money pile but saves $2.5MM
Jenkins ($2.917MM cap hit for 2015). Cutting him adds 667K to the dead money pile but saves $2.25MM
Wilson ($2.127MM cap hit for 2015). He's retired so that is treated like a released player. Wilson is eligible for half of his 2015 salary even if the Giants cut him due to injury while on the job (NFLPA). Therefore I believe the Giants would eat $1.4MM instead of the $825K that Over the Cap says they would and save only $650K or so.
Hillis ($945K cap hit for 2015). I think he retires due to the concussions; if he does the Giants take on no dead money and save the $945K
Hosley ($796K cap hit for 2015). They'll cut him; the Giants take on $129K in dead money and save $668K
All those moves leave us with $30 million in cap space...that's a lot to fix the team up
The first and most important thing to do is extend Eli. He can still play at a high level and going without a QB in the NFL is suicide. Eli's cap hit for next year is $19.75MM. So a good extension will lower that cap # significantly in 2015 and put off the costs for later. So a 5 year, $90MM deal, with $25MM guaranteed and most of the money backloaded for 2016-2019 will work. In the first year Eli's cap hit is only $10.75MM so that gives us an extra $9MM to work with, which puts us up to $40MM and that money goes to...
JPP. The Giants MUST sign him back; not doing so sends a sign to the rest of the younger players that the Giants don't value them. I think JPP can be signed back for 5 years at $61MM with $19MM guaranteed and a $10MM signing bonus. Make his entire first two years guaranteed so you can backload the deal. JPP's cap hit would be around $11MM in the first year, so we have $29MM left in cap room.
I would part ways with Rolle and bring in Devin McCourty at FS at around $8MM per year, which is about what Rolle costs us now. Backload it a little so it costs $6MM for the first year and we'll be down to $23MM in cap room.
Then I'd sign Orlando Franklin. He'll be the 2nd most highly paid left guard on the market. I'd try to backload the contract which would be about 5 years for $30MM so the first year only costs about $4MM against the cap. We'll have $19MM in cap left which gives us a decent chance to sign SUH.
The Giants are going to be in a fantastic cap position for next year so I think they go all out to give Eli another shot at the Bowl
Here's a what if scenario. Look at the 86 Giants, they were amazing top to bottom. Now put 20 random players on IR. What kind of season would they have?
Both OL and DL must be re-stocked if this team is to have any chance.
The problem is we have a front office that doesn't seem to understand that you have to do so and instead prefers to waste picks on guys who can run real fast and/or jump really far or high.
Not completely the premise. Overall, looking at a handful of the losses, as I mentioned, those games are a couple healthy players and a play or two away from flip-flopping to W's.
The two recent Super Bowl winning teams, few gave the Giants a shot. Were they playoff teams, or contenders?
If we've learned anything, it should be that just making the playoffs makes you a contender.
I look at it this way. We have 22 guys on IR, we have one WR worth a damn, our line sucks and our D can be erratic and we were competitive in just about every game we played. The Eagles game and the Detroit game were the only two where we really looked as bad as some are describing. Outside of those two we were a play or a bounce here and there away from a win.
Many of you were sucking off Dallas all year and we choked both of those games away. We were in both of those games despite all our warts.
Offense is Eli, Beckham and? I think Williams is a good back, but he (nor anyone else) is going to gain consistent yardage behind that shit show OL. Can Jennings stay healthy enough to make an effective combo? Will Cruz be the same? Is Randle JAG or worse? They have to get better, bigger and meaner up front. Reese tends to acquire soft type OLs. Beatty is avg, and soft. Hopefully Richburg is the answer at C, Pugh at RT or LG. Schwartz has to play RG. But they need a big, mean OL desperately. Peat would be great if that SI mock somehow comes true.
Bottom line: Until they dramatically improve on both lines and at LB they are going nowhere.
Barrow and thomas were solid contributors on defense and brown/parker/ziegler immediately shored up the shaky offensive line.
This offseason is key - aside from any potential head or coordinator coaching changes, we need to invest in fixing our offensive line, add a linebacker and defensive end depth.
We saw a 6-2 Giant team, lose 4 in a row, then beat Dallas in Dallas, and then the next week not show up for Washington, and were on the verge of losing another game the following week to the Jets, when all of a sudden the "Cruz Play" turn the season around......seasons like this happen, once, in one's lifetime.....so referencing that this could happen again, is somewhat futile...
Few players away? Problem is, you think you are only a few away, because you over rate what you presently have, and end up needing more than a few....but the main fault in that reasoning is, you think that this front office can hit a home run on every free agent selection and every draft pick, and yet it was their selection of the present players that put us in this hole, in the first place....
As for rationalizing, that some of those games we lost, we could have won, comes with the caveat, that, some of the games we won, we could have lost.....think we win the Houston game, if a healthy Arian Foster was in that game? Rewatching the Washington game, if RGIII doesn't fumble, it's 17-7 at the half.....the Giants do not kick off from the Washington 35, and probably don't try an onside kick.....Eli got away with two throws that should have been picks....it works both ways....
It's not about the Giants becoming SB contenders.....it's about this team, first regaining respectability.....it's about this team showing up for games every week, and opposing teams looking at their schedules, seeing they are playing the NY Football Giants, and not automatically putting a "W" on that game.....
This team has to learn to play with the big boys again.....it hasn't defeated a team with a winning record in almost 3 seasons.....
I think TC returns...ownership does not want to blow this team up and start over.....but I also think it's a mandate, that PF does not.....we have seen the same defensive lapses year after year, even committed by vets, and not just rookies.....PF has forced players to play his scheme, sacrificing their talents in other aspects of their game....
PF doesn't dial it up....his defenses feed on other teams making mistakes...that's his basic philosophy.....but....good teams don't make mistakes...that's why he can't stop good teams....outside of a miraculous 6 games stretch, when the planets were all aligned, and every Giant fan went to sleep with their fingers crossed, when has a PF defense been consistent?
You have to be lucky.....we were lucky a talent like OBj fell to us when we picked....you can't sign free agents that spend the season on IR.....you can't draft players with potential, you draft players who show they can play....you can't coach using a formula that is outdated.....the NFL has changed.....
If we are lucky, with a healthy Eli, this team can become respectable again, and possibly get to the big dance in a few years.....if we are not, this team can create more problems than it fixes.....only time will tell.....
I believe if Beckham Prince Thurmond Schwartz Cruz and Beason were healthy for the whole season they would be in the playoff hunt. Just cutting players to create cap space is all well in good until you have to outbid others for free agents who there current teams don't want. They have to figure out Eli at some point and I would think sooner than later. What I would also say is that Rolle and Kiwanuka play every week and have been able to stay away from injuries.
If we fortify the lines, we are a contender for the playoffs. I believe that
A lot of the problems on defense were due to injuries in the secondary, but the front seven needs an offseason of investment similar to how they approached last offseason with the offense.
Time to replace Fewell, and spend some money (in smarter fashion) on defense.
Last season was a 3-4 win team in terms of talent, this team would've won 7-9 games if it had been reasonably healthy.
Imo, their approach to the OL isn't complete until they upgrade RT. Pugh was overdrafted imo and they can do better at RT. They're drafting smart OL, but they need some power and size to re-establish the OL.
They also need to invest in the DL. They're losing the trench battle almost weekly, they must infuse both. We're suddenly ordinary at DE, which I pointed out two years would probably happen, and they're relying on stopgaps to round out the DT and LB positions. Kennard's a keeper, but he's going to be rushing from the edge, which means they need to decide on MIKE and add talent at S.
Do we trust Reese with that money?
I believe if Beckham Prince Thurmond Schwartz Cruz and Beason were healthy for the whole season they would be in the playoff hunt. Just cutting players to create cap space is all well in good until you have to outbid others for free agents who there current teams don't want. They have to figure out Eli at some point and I would think sooner than later. What I would also say is that Rolle and Kiwanuka play every week and have been able to stay away from injuries.
Are you suggesting the Giants would have been a 10 win team if they had those injured players healthy?
Many of us on here before the season began thought the team would go 8-8 at best even all things being on the level due to our talent not being on par with most of the NFC.
Here is the STRONG MINDED OPTIMISTIC TRUTH.
It comes down to OL, first and foremost.
SB46 showed that Eli Manning can win Superbowls with an average team.
So these Giants are NOT as far away as some think.
And this team does NOT hinge on Beckham.
It hinges on Eli Manning. Specifically, 'CONFIDENT' Eli, not his arch-nemesis 'Unconfident' Eli.
The OL is the most critical part of the team. If Eli has protection, he has confidence. And when he has confidence, Eli Manning is as good as any 4th quarter QB in the history of the game. Holds the record for 4th quarter comebacks in a single season. Part of that is because he had a SUCKY team that year. But he was confident in the pocket, and broke JOHN UNITAS's record. A confident Eli Manning won those 2 superbowls, not the DL, not the running backs.
Some people don't realize it, but Seubert/O'Hara/Snee were FAR more important than Osi/Tuck/JPP.
The Giants are 2 quality OL away from being back in it. That simple.
Damn, I'm smart.
Imo, their approach to the OL isn't complete until they upgrade RT. Pugh was overdrafted imo and they can do better at RT. They're drafting smart OL, but they need some power and size to re-establish the OL.
They also need to invest in the DL. They're losing the trench battle almost weekly, they must infuse both. We're suddenly ordinary at DE, which I pointed out two years would probably happen, and they're relying on stopgaps to round out the DT and LB positions. Kennard's a keeper, but he's going to be rushing from the edge, which means they need to decide on MIKE and add talent at S.
I'm also up in the air about Beatty - he's an acceptable player, but I think the price to value is out of whack - and he can't be your best line player if you're going to have a good OL, imo.
A lot of the problems on defense were due to injuries in the secondary, but the front seven needs an offseason of investment similar to how they approached last offseason with the offense.
Time to replace Fewell, and spend some money (in smarter fashion) on defense.
Last season was a 3-4 win team in terms of talent, this team would've won 7-9 games if it had been reasonably healthy.
I think we are actually very close with some key acquisitions through the draft and free agency.
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yes, this team is probably two solid offseasons of talent infusion and rebuilding the defense away from being in position to consider contention.
Imo, their approach to the OL isn't complete until they upgrade RT. Pugh was overdrafted imo and they can do better at RT. They're drafting smart OL, but they need some power and size to re-establish the OL.
They also need to invest in the DL. They're losing the trench battle almost weekly, they must infuse both. We're suddenly ordinary at DE, which I pointed out two years would probably happen, and they're relying on stopgaps to round out the DT and LB positions. Kennard's a keeper, but he's going to be rushing from the edge, which means they need to decide on MIKE and add talent at S.
I'm also up in the air about Beatty - he's an acceptable player, but I think the price to value is out of whack - and he can't be your best line player if you're going to have a good OL, imo.
I would have no qualms about going LT in the draft, and they may decide Beatty's potential ceiling isn't high enough to pass over a Peat, for example. I'd fine with that. Plug that player in a RT and prepare him to bump Beatty before long.
It gives the team a lot of flexibility come draft time, but makes me think we're still a year away from competing.
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The 2013 team was worse than the 2014 team, last year they were historically inept very often. Incredibly difficult to watch they were so historically bad, and got fat on bad teams playing 2nd/3rd string QBs against us.
A lot of the problems on defense were due to injuries in the secondary, but the front seven needs an offseason of investment similar to how they approached last offseason with the offense.
Time to replace Fewell, and spend some money (in smarter fashion) on defense.
Last season was a 3-4 win team in terms of talent, this team would've won 7-9 games if it had been reasonably healthy.
I think the D is performing badly (which I put mostly on Fewell) but there are some talented players there. Prince, when healthy, DRC, maybe Rolle, JPP if back, Hankins, maybe Moore, Wynn, Ayers, Kennard...
I think we are actually very close with some key acquisitions through the draft and free agency.
I'd agree Fewell is part of the problem, along with key injuries. JPP, Prince, Hankins, Kennard is a good start for a core, perhaps Moore will wise up with experience. I'm on record as not being a fan of DRC, but he'll be here for a bit. They have to overcome their blind spots at evaluating LBs and OLs in order to improve the talent, that along with key injuries ending promising young careers has a ton to do with the struggles.
I think we need a DT, a DE, an OT, a safety, a LB and another WR.
That's six upgrades which could be split between FA and the draft, if things work out well.
Another TE and RB would be nice but aren't must haves.
This is what I've been harping on for a couple of years.
The team will tell you that the injuries sucked the depth out of the roster leading to poor special teams. But the truth is that the special teams units the last 2 years have stunk BEFORE the injuries began to decay that area.
You can win games if this area makes contributions. Punt and kick returns. Blocked punts or FG's. Scoring on specials and/or putting the the offense and/or defense in favorable positions with good returns or holding the other team to nothing on theirs.
For 2 years the Giants have done none of that and it speaks to the bottom half of the roster contributing virtually nothing. They rarely if ever, score on defense too. So the entire burden is placed on the offense to do everything and as we know, the team doesn't have enough talent to carry the load.
I think they had the right idea in signing some OL veterans to value contracts. Schwartz proved to be a waste of money as he does not perform. There are good prospects in each round of the draft and already on NFL teams stuck in numbers games. Does the FO have the ability to get it right?
I think simply having a NFL level ability at each spot in the Trenches means being competitive. The Giants are not and in doing so are diminishing the quality players shelf life that are currently on the Roster (ie Manning).
Curious, the two mopst recent SB years, weren't the Giants ridiculously low on the NFL's "key injury" ranking?
Kennard seems to be a player, despite what someone wants to call him.
Moore will be into his third season, and the talent appears to be there. The optimist says he'll flick the switch, regardless of JPP re-signing or going.
One top O-lineman, maybe a S with the second pick, FAs at LB and DL, hoping for Cruz's healthy return, and maybe something could develop at TE, either through the draft (later rounds) or a vet signing ...
Ya never know.
Agree with most of that. However, I think you need to put a WR on top of your list. We are on dangerously thin ice at that position. OBJ & who else? Cruz questionable, Randle a goner & ... well you see my point.
Sure, if your goal is one and done....as mentioned, the NFC East is there for the taking, because all the teams have many flaws.....but winning the Division, doesn't make you a contender....if Atlanta wins out, they win their division at 7-9.....one and done....
The Giants are more than 2 linemen away...TE, RB, DE, DT, RT/LG, WR, 2-LB, 3-S's, and backups, backups, backups.....
why would you even say that?
We need:
At least 2 OL (a starting LG and a versatile Boothe-type as a reserve)
Another WR opposite Odell, even if Cruz returns, and definitely if he doesn't
At least 1 DE, 2 if JPP leaves (and we'll have to draft DE in the 1st round if JPP leaves)
At least one starting DT
I think we have an OG for next year already, Eric Herman. Draft priorities appear to be OT, DE, SS (Rolle will probably be gone and Taylor may not be durable), MLB and DT. After that, anybodies guess is as good as mine.
At least 2 LBs, and the positions are dependent on where they play Kennard. If they give Kennard the playcalling helmet next year it'll be 2 OLBs
A FS if Rolle leaves
A SS, but hopefully Cooper Taylor is finally healthy
They could also use another RB, and not a scat back speedster like Wilson, who i never thought was a good fit for what we try to do. We also need a tight end who can block. Getting healthy will go a long way for the secondary and LB core, another LB wouldnt hurt either.
With a few of the right peices added we'll be back to GIANT football.
Lets go G-men
Week 1 get knocked out by Detroit
Week 2 Jennings fumbles the ball with no one near him, they maintain that drive and put some points up its a completely different game, defense played very well
Week3,4,5 Wins vs Washington, Houston and Atlanta
Week 6 Blown out by Philly
Week 7 Donnell fumbles twice, Rolle drops a sure pick at the goal line, Dallas scores TD, a few plays later...thats 13 Points, Giants should have won there
Week 8 Bye week
Week 9 Colts blown out by Colts
Week 10 Loss to Seahawks, despite giving up 6 miles of rushing this was a close game in the 4th quarter...3 times the Giants forced fumbles and they failed to recover all of them. They go a different way the Giants most likely walk out of Seattle with a W......on another note, Earl Thomas doesnt get enough credit for that pick in the endzone, guy ran 40+ yards to make one hell of a play on the ball.
Week 11- 3 straight fade routes on the goal line should have been three straight dives up the gut.They get in. They win.
Week 12- 3 point loss to Dallas....ball goes off of Parkers hands and is picked off by Church at the goal line. Parker runs the right route, Giants win.
Week 13- Embarrassment in J'ville. Josh Brown misses his only FG so far this season, he hits that, Giants Win...
not to mention Jennings unexplicably tries to bring the fumble out of the end zone. if he does the right things and takes the safety, Giants win.
Should have beat Jacksonville, Dallas 2x, SF. Thats 4 wins left on the table. Im not gonna say they would have beat Seattle but they recover those fumbles....With that being said good teams dont make thos mistakes, good teams dont let j'vill come back even though they scored twice on defense ( donnell with fumblitis, bad move by jennings ).....This could very easily be a 9 win team, without a whole lot of talent and 22 Players on IR...
5-9 could very easily be 9-5....thats how small the distance between a playoff team and a bottom dwelling team is. These are fixable. We're close.
LETS GO GIANTS!
Poor teams.
The Raiders have lost 5 games by 7 points or less. They could make the same argument. A lot of teams can. The ones that lose enough typically do.
That means that we still have Ayers, Beason, Thurmond, Kiwanuka, and Manning on IR. The rest are "relatively" healthy.
We then have a team with : LB Williams, DB Prince, WR Cruz, WR Jernigan, WR Harris, DB Mcbride, DB Taylor (we also have RB's Hillis and Cox...not sure whether to count Wilson or not).
You can't tell me that doesn't give this team a few more wins. Sure, our OL will still suck, but there is a big improvement at WR and DB.
Injuries hurt this team big time, although we still stink at OL, LB.
Take out WR's: Williams, Beasley, Street. Have Dez Bryant miss the first few games of the season.
Take out CB's: Carr, Moore, Patmon
Have RB Murray miss part of the season.
Is this team a playoff contender?
But still, I don't think the Giants are too far off either of these two teams. I think there is going to be some productive addition by subtraction this offseason to go along with any new pickups.