New GBN Draft Projection

I'm not saying I'm right, but there's certainly more than just using a 1st round pick on a G to fix your line.

I actually don't know much about Parker. But I'm all for WR, mainly if we have a shot at Cooper. Really don't care if it's me and 4 of my friends blocking if we go into 2015 with Beckham/Cooper/Cruz.

We will have cap to help with the OL. We won't have cap for another top target for Eli, however, which is why I'm not opposed to WR early.

in the first round. We will end up with too many WRs like we did in the past. Then2/3 of them never see the field because of the glut. Next thing their initial contracts are running out and we do not know what we have. Reese has done this enough in the past. Hope he has learned. Beckum, Barden,Jernigan, were victims of this policy. Meanwhile our OL and DL depend on UDFA and late picks.

In comment 12042641 TMS said:

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in the first round. We will end up with too many WRs like we did in the past. Then2/3 of them never see the field because of the glut. Next thing their initial contracts are running out and we do not know what we have. Reese has done this enough in the past. Hope he has learned. Beckum, Barden,Jernigan, were victims of this policy. Meanwhile our OL and DL depend on UDFA and late picks.

This is only an issue for Giants fans. Beckum Barden and Jernigan didnt see the field because of the glut at WR.. they didnt see the field because they SUCKED..

Why is it that teams like the Packers. Saints Denver etc etc can go three to four deep at receiver and spend quality picks in doing so.. but when it comes to the Giants its like....

OH NO.. dont get more than two quality receivers.. We have OBJ and a Cruz coming off a MAJOR injury and a sub par Randle and Parker.. thats enough.. we dont need any more receivers..

You go BPA despite position (with exception to QB). We have needs almost everywhere.

I think they can pick up some solid FA pieces this year in some key areas. One is a FA veteran WR. I want Randall Cobb, if too much grab someone like Torrey Smith. But I would make a run for Cobb, he is excellent insurance if Cruz doesn't return to form, and would be a perfect pairing with Beckham.

I'm not sure the Giants go after a top FA OL again, I just don't see them wanting to invest that much in the OL. While I would love someone like Franklin, I think they look for some other second tier guys to compete with a 2nd-3rd rd OL pick. Schwartz, Beatty, Pugh, and Richburg are good building blocks. get better depth behind them, and a mean OG/RT in this draft and FA.

On defense I would take most people's suggestions of replacing Rolle with McCourty. Unless you can resign Rolle cheap, then get both. They have Berhe, and Taylor as depth. Bring back Thurmond, extend Prince to a long term deal and this secondary remains a strong point.

The market for JPP will be interesting, I think he will do better with a competent DC, but if he prices himself in the same category as Suh, who do you target? I think I try and keep the guy who has been a Giant here. They need to get another LB to play along with Kennard, and bring in a young DT to add to the mix. DE needs depth as well.

As I go back and look at players there is only one OL that I see as being worthy of a Top 10-15 draft pick - A. Peat of Stanford. While Collins I probably have next on my list he is more of a player that I would look at it in a trade down because I think he may be better off being a RT in the NFL and Peat is the only one that screams blue goose LT to me

In comment 12042604 UConn4523 said:

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I'm not saying I'm right, but there's certainly more than just using a 1st round pick on a G to fix your line. I actually don't know much about Parker. But I'm all for WR, mainly if we have a shot at Cooper. Really don't care if it's me and 4 of my friends blocking if we go into 2015 with Beckham/Cooper/Cruz. We will have cap to help with the OL. We won't have cap for another top target for Eli, however, which is why I'm not opposed to WR early.

Great idea. 4 WRs and no QB would be the worst case result. And you will have mediocrity at best. If they don't have a good OL, they will be on the 7-9 to 9-7 treadmill. No consistency. They'll have some amazing games and numbers against other mediocre teams and lose the tough ones.

Rolle was a pretty unique player and situation, out of character signing for NYG.

You need to realize there's a good chance they address the OL via UFA, freeing themselves up for the draft.

has a very mixed track record of using FA to plug holes.

In comment 12042709 JonC said:

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You need to realize there's a good chance they address the OL via UFA, freeing themselves up for the draft.

You mean there are other Waltons and Jerrys waiting to be signed by the Giants?

In comment 12042734 BigBlueCane said:

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has a very mixed track record of using FA to plug holes.

Thank you BBC. Kareem McKenzie and O'Hara worked out. Baas, Brown, Walton, Jerry, all not so hot. Jury is still out on Schwartz since he didn't really play this year.

The point is utilizing resources properly. Track record of choices is a different debate.

It's amazing that every year there are people that fail to learn that.

In comment 12042701 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 12042604 UConn4523 said: Quote: I'm not saying I'm right, but there's certainly more than just using a 1st round pick on a G to fix your line. I actually don't know much about Parker. But I'm all for WR, mainly if we have a shot at Cooper. Really don't care if it's me and 4 of my friends blocking if we go into 2015 with Beckham/Cooper/Cruz. We will have cap to help with the OL. We won't have cap for another top target for Eli, however, which is why I'm not opposed to WR early. Great idea. 4 WRs and no QB would be the worst case result. And you will have mediocrity at best. If they don't have a good OL, they will be on the 7-9 to 9-7 treadmill. No consistency. They'll have some amazing games and numbers against other mediocre teams and lose the tough ones.

Re read this post and my other above, both talk about how there's more ways than 1 to fix the O-Line, and that it isn't so cut and dry like you and many other posters make it seem.

Spending the 8th overall pick on the best OL available doesn't equal fixed O-Line. I cannot stress that enough and if you pay attention around the league, you'd realize that.

What I said was that using your $$$ in FA for lineman makes more sense than spending on another weapon for Eli. We don't have this horrific line that BBI likes to talk about so frequently. It certainly isn't good, but Eli isn't getting hit 30 times a game like this board makes it out to be.

Getting a FA Guard is 1 way to address, which in turn allow us to be more BPA focused in the draft. If that happens and Cooper is there, you just can't pass that up.

the evaluation process NYG utilizes for OL needs work, and that extends into both UFA and draft choices.

If you don't trust their UFA OL choices, there's no reason to trust their draft OL choices either, thus barking for OL no matter what in the first round is faulty logic.

In comment 12042269 Marty866b said:

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We need lineman on both sides of the ball. Games are on and lost upfront. Taking another receiver in the first round is ridiculous.

Not so ridiculous. We have OBJ, VC with a blown knee then what?

Randle is a goner imo.

The OL needs upgrades, yes. But so do WR, RB, and TE.

If we don't spend a top 10 pick on an OL, it's not the end of the world.

Like Terps said: Draft players, not positions. You don't reach for a lesser player.

And like JonC has said OVER AND OVER- It's very likely at least one OL in free agency.

but I agree with Reese and not spending 1st rounders on LB's

In comment 12042797 OC said:

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In comment 12042269 Marty866b said: Quote: We need lineman on both sides of the ball. Games are on and lost upfront. Taking another receiver in the first round is ridiculous. Not so ridiculous. We have OBJ, VC with a blown knee then what?

Yes, the need is there. But will there be a receiver worth taking at 7-10. The only one I see is Cooper. I don't think Parker is a value pick that high.

but as of now I like Parker more than White. Parker might even have a higher ceiling than Cooper, but no one is as polished as Coop.

A year ago, this place was abuzz with predictions that Cyrus Kouandjio would go top 10 with many suggesting you could just plug him in at right tackle his first year. He went in the second round to the Bills and sat behind seventh round pick, Seantrel Henderson.

I also recall how David Yankey from Stanford was a sure first rounder - he went in the fifth round, behind teammate Cameron Fleming who went in the fourth.

My point is that it's far too early to fall in love with anyone.

In comment 12042770 JonC said:

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The point is utilizing resources properly. Track record of choices is a different debate.

When they have drafted in higher rounds yes, players have been at least average OLs (Snee, Beatty, Pugh, Richburg). Mid to lower rounds no (Petrus, Brewer, Mosely, McCants). Diehl would be the exception as a 5th rounder.

In comment 12042846 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 12042770 JonC said: Quote: The point is utilizing resources properly. Track record of choices is a different debate. When they have drafted in higher rounds yes, players have been at least average OLs (Snee, Beatty, Pugh, Richburg). Mid to lower rounds no (Petrus, Brewer, Mosely, McCants). Diehl would be the exception as a 5th rounder.

They must come away from a top 10 pick with a much better than average player, regardless of position.

These numbers are rough estimates of course ....

-A top 10 draft pick (any position) will net between $2.5 and $5 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 WR will net between $9 and $16.2 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 G will net between $6 and $8.5 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 C will net between $4 and $8.8 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 RT will net between $4.2 and $7 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 LT will net between $8.5 and $12.2 Million in 2015.

The very best #1 G, C, and RT make less than the 10th best WR. Cruz is the 11th BTW at $8.6 Million.

is that valued positions have changed dramatically in the NFL.

RB's and I would argue WR's are becoming easier and easier to replace provided you have a stable and competent coaching staff.

Likewise on defense, the emphasis is becoming more on finding guys who can reliably tackle (which ours cannot do) and/or pass rushers.

As for Jon's question, A lot of people have said that these last 2 drafts have restored their faith in Reese and his ability to scout and evaluate talent. Probably more people have faith in Reese there then they do in Free Agency talent, so let's go where his supposed strength is, the draft.

Hey guys: Interesting comments as usual. Truth be told making the Giants pick at #8 was one of the tougher choices in this mock (and when we do a mock we try to the best of our ability project who the team would take rather than which player we would take ourselves.) There will be several quality prospects at that point including Scherff, Landon Collins and Oakman among others that would clearly be useful picks that one could make the case for, but none of those guys really screams out 'take me! take me!' as they all have major caveats.

What you can take to the bank though is that the Giants will stick with their board (a much preferable phrase than the oft misinterpreted 'best player available') and in that vein we'd nominate Terps as the MVP (Most Valuable Poster) as in the end quality organizations 'draft players not positions.' Positions do factor in obviously but position almost never trumps talent.

A couple of general points about talent. 1) we are hearing from our sources around the league that there are major issues about both Peat and Fowler that have gotten some mentions here. No question Peat has potential elite physical skill but he was wildly inconsistent this fall, plus he's never had that nasty streak. Meanwhile, Fowler really flashed at times, but 'flashed' is the operative word as I heard one scout say 'he lead the country in taking plays off!). At the same time, I've been told by more than one source that if Parker had played more than the 4 games this fall he would clearly be the #1 receiver in this draft. He isn't quite as explosive coming out of his cuts as Cooper, but he's a much bigger, stronger, more physical receiver with better hands and long speed. Te same sources figure that by the time we get thru the combine and rest of the process that Parker could very well overtake Cooper and come in as the top receiver. Remember at this time last year Beckham was barely a blip on the opening round radar.

The other cautionary note we would make at this time is that there is often something of a disconnect between fans and NFL people as to what they want the draft to accomplish. The average fan in the street, who clearly cares passionately about his team, desperately wants it to get better and the logical, quickest way to get better is to identify the weakest unit and plug in a top draft pick. Most good organizations though tend to approach the draft asking not necessarily what needs fixing but what gets you closer to a championship. Needless to say sometimes those things can be the same, but often they aren't.

And in that regard one can make the case the Giants don't 'need' another possible WR. Indeed, they likely could go into the season with Beckham and hopefully a healthy Victor, along with Randle and Parker as the 3-4 guys and maybe add another vet in free agency and/or the middle rounds of the 2015 draft, and the WR group would be good enough to win with; however, add another possible elite guy out there and the unit could be really scary good and force other teams to really scramble to match-up if they could.

I say it every year, you may want to save that post for future pasting here ...

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The average fan in the street, who clearly cares passionately about his team, desperately wants it to get better and the logical, quickest way to get better is to identify the weakest unit and plug in a top draft pick. Most good organizations though tend to approach the draft asking not necessarily what needs fixing but what gets you closer to a championship. Needless to say sometimes those things can be the same, but often they aren't.

Fair assessment, however I'd note the following:

Eli, by far the most crucial part of this team, is likely to get injured with a continuation of the interior line play that we've seen. This has been ongoing for fully 2 seasons now - remember the Carolina game last season? The Eagles this year? Even the lowly Jaguars were getting major hits on him. He's not Romo or Rodgers who can consistently avoid that big hit.

So while I am all about building toward a championship (a multi-year endeavor, to be sure), I think finding even serviceable protection is urgent. FA, draft whatever. But they can't continue starting the Waltons and Jerrys of the league.

absolutely overseer; there is no way in the world that the Giants are going to plan to go into the 2015 season with Jerry as the starting RG; it is also hard to imagine that they would plan to go into the next season with Walton as the starting C although they you would have to figure they are likely to bring him back at least for depth. The guess here is that they sign another vet FA OG like Schwartz and at least another veteran swingman like Sean Locklear from a couple of years back. One can also make the case that it wouldn't be the worst thing to happn if they ended up taking Scherff or even a La'el Collins with their #1 pick if there weren't other options. Plug that guy in at RG and give yourself some depth at OT all in one move. However, every position has a marginal utility, ie, what it contributes to winnng games and the marginal utility for interior offensive linemen isn't all that high. In particular, there is almost no difference in a team's 'winability factor' if they have a good, very good or elite OG (although it helps to have at least a good one to start with). Contrast that with a QB; if you have a good QB you are probabaly no better than a .500 team; very good QB maybe the playoffs; elite QB= Super Bowl. Obviously I am generalizing but hopefully one gets the idea. Nice to have an elite OG but you can win just as well with a good one and they can be found pretty readily in free agency at a fair price.

At the same time, my own best guess is that if the Giants had their druthers their #1 priority this off-season would be to juice the pass rush and would go there in a heartbeat with their #1 pick if there was a worthy guy. And while guys like Oakman, Fowler and even Dupree are somewhat intriguing options they come with major caveats.

Also just a final note re Parker. My earlier comments were not meant to be dogmatic in that I don't think for a moment the Giants will or should automatically take a WR like Parker assuming he's even there when they pick. However, its the case to be made to take a big-play threat like him if a) his foot checks out; b) he runs well in pre-draft testing and c) he is in fact in their top-rated box when they do make their pick.

makes the same point that I made on another thread. Even as late as March last year, Beckham wasn't being considered for the Giants pick.

So for anyone to say this guy or that guy shouldn't be considered for the Giants pick in December 2014 is just downright silly. Guys who we think are first rounders now will not be drafted in the first round (may not get drafted in the second round). And visa versa.

Colin, what do you think of the Miami tackle?

just saw that you posted above.

Hey Eric: Best of the season to you and your family. Not sure if I said anything about Flowers buy he's an interesting second round possibility; kind of a poor man's Sherff (with longer arms); plays LT but probably doesn't have quite the feet to excel there at the next level but is a solid run blocker and decent pass blocker who might be just as good a fit at OG. I actually think the OL options might be better for the Giants in that second round should they choose to go that way.

Colin!

If folks get a chance they should try and watch some of the whatever bowl on ABC tomorrow afternoon at 3:30 as there are a couple of what I think would be realistic Giants 2nd round options going head-to-head in Colorado State LT Ty Sambrailo (#51) and Utah DE Nate Orchard (#8), who led the NCAA with 17.5 sacks this fall.

Mills and Derron Smith 2nd round safeties and do they fit the Reese mold?

do not like AL Golden and Mark Donofrio. Especially the defensive players, they are very likely to shine in a more aggressive scheme Colin.

Flowers is another of Kehoe's guys, you know his track record.

In comment 12042709 JonC said:

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You need to realize there's a good chance they address the OL via UFA, freeing themselves up for the draft.

Which scares me because Reese and his staff seem to not be able to hit on FA OL either. not that I trust him or Ross either. They'd pass up Anthony Munoz for a skill position player IMO

Has Giants written all over him. Very talented kid, he will continue to rise if he declares.

In comment 12043974 LauderdaleMatty said:

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In comment 12042709 JonC said: Quote: You need to realize there's a good chance they address the OL via UFA, freeing themselves up for the draft. Which scares me because Reese and his staff seem to not be able to hit on FA OL either. not that I trust him or Ross either. They'd pass up Anthony Munoz for a skill position player IMO

Matt, Reese cannot predict injuries. Baas was a good center that could not shrug the neck injury. Schwartz got the unfortunate toe injury. But the game he played at RT before getting hurt again he looked pretty good for not playing there regularly. I think he will be really good at RG once his toe/ankle heals.
Walton was a roll of the dice, he was s decent C before his rash of injuries. Jerry and Brown were starters the previous year, but still pretty cheap and had they been backups they would be fine.

I think Colin hit the nail on the head about quality interior lineman. Get a good guard, hope for very good. The existing line is nowhere near the disaster last years was and that is with Jerry and Walton playing and Pugh hurt. It is below avg, but can be avg with a decent and healthy LG added to the mix.

Devante Parker had a pretty damn fine game against Florida State.

has had a good game against FSU's defense this year.

That's the warning flag.

And Pugh moving inside where he belongs means we still need a RT.

In comment 12044054 BigBlueCane said:

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has had a good game against FSU's defense this year. That's the warning flag. And Pugh moving inside where he belongs means we still need a RT.

Somewhat true, mostly because of Winston's 3+ INTs per game. Funny how most of the damage was done in the 1st half after his INTs. Most teams didn't do crap in the 2nd half.

No, I'll give the devil his due. Parker looked strong in that game. I'm not choosing any WRs yet.

I don't see Pugh needing to move inside as a requirement to help the line and at his weight, I'm not sure he'll be better there. He is still the best tackle from 2013 class and his feet make him a natural tackle. Of course that would help him as a pulling guard too.
But he can play inside so if a better RT is available fine. If a better LG is available (and cheaper) he stays at RT.

... are at it again. The great thing about the internet guys is you can actually look things up. In fact, Parker had 8 catches for 214 yards against FSU. Only one other WR had more than 100 yards this year against FSU and that was 103 yards. In fact, Parker's 71 yard TD reception against FSU was more yards by itself than the leading opposition receiver had total in 8 of the Seminoles 13 games this year. In fact, his AVERAGE yards per catch in that game (26.8) was as much or more than the leading opposition receiver in three of FSU's games.

The Oline guy they draft the highest this year will warm the bench in 2015. If the Giants pick up a very good run blocking guard in free agency, the starters are set.

I'd imagine they grab another playmaker #1 and pick the best best DL and OL available in rounds 2 and 3.

Sounds good to me.

if we win the last few games and fall out of the top 10.
Both can play a physical RT and we can kick Pugh inside. Our 2 biggest issues are the absence of a Physical RT and our pathetic C play.

don't tell the whole story. Go watch those games.

FSU barely survived most of their games due to the competition they faced. They legit lost to ND and got bailed out by the refs.

In comment 12043391 Colin@gbn said:

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If folks get a chance they should try and watch some of the whatever bowl on ABC tomorrow afternoon at 3:30 as there are a couple of what I think would be realistic Giants 2nd round options going head-to-head in Colorado State LT Ty Sambrailo (#51) and Utah DE Nate Orchard (#8), who led the NCAA with 17.5 sacks this fall.

I've really liked what I've seen of Kaelin Clay, #8 on Utah. Sr WR/KR/PR. Averaging 17 yards on PR. He'd have better receiving stats if his QB didn't suck.

You absolutely have to get a plus player when drafting this high. Absolutely regardless of position.

Bad teams stay bad when they force position and need and forego special players.

The NFL is all about a play making QB and more disruptive players than your opponent.


It's pretty unreal we're this bad with such a good QB. We need several more good players at literally every position.

a high pick, just someone to watch later on

Him and/ir Fowlers in the 2nd round would make a lot of sense.

Colin: Where is the highest you can see Sambrailo possibly going in this draft? Does he have 2nd half of the 1st round potential (17-32) in your opinion?