Didn't see it posted anywhere, but GBN updated it's draft projection. Giants currently pick #8 and select:
Devante Parker, WR Louisville
I like this pick more than I have liked previous GBN projects as I wasn't sold on Oakman or most of the OTs in the first round.
Parker is 6-3 210, runs in the mid to high 4.4s. An education major who missed seven games this year to a foot injury, Parker has played in only 5 games, but has 35 receptions for 735 yards and 5 TDs. He also dominated FSU with an 8 catch 214 yd performance.
Parker pretty much sounds like everything the Giants hoped Reuben Randle would be, but has not lived up to. CBS sports describes Parker as:
STRENGTHS: At 6'3 with long arms, soft hands and superb leaping ability, Parker is as tough of a receiver to defend as there is anywhere in the country as he utilizes great body control and timing to win any ball thrown in his vicinity regardless of how well-covered he is. After the catch, Parker demonstrates impressive shiftiness despite being a long-strider and has a nice second gear to create distance once he's in the open field.
WEAKNESSES: Parker's initial burst and quickness off the line is only marginal, so he'll need to continue improving with his hands to routinely beat press coverage, and he lacks elite straight-line speed to separate vertically. He's also still developing as a route-runner as he lacks sharpness on cuts, and doesn't always work his way back to the ball, but he has shown steady improvement in this area.
Parker has first-round talent, and will certainly be a consideration there with another season like the last two.
--Derek Stephens (8/18/14)
While you can make a compelling argument that the 1st round pick should be a OL, DL, or Safety. Eli has one legit weapon right now, and Cruz returning to form is not a sure thing at all. Drafting Parker would allow the Giants to take it slow with Cruz, work him back in, relegate Reuben Randle to the #4 slot (or worse), and continue to capitalize on remaining years of Eli's prime.
I would say that if the Giants go WR early, they better use FA to find a Guard or RT.
Link - (
New Window )
You already have significant money invested in the LT, future OC, RG, and RT position. (I assume Schwartz will eventually play RG). Those guys aren't going anywhere for at least two more seasons. I think the Giants are going to find a OG/RT (maybe both) in FA and plug him into the line. You really don't spend a premium pick on a Guard or a guy you expect to play RT, and a Top 10 pick in the draft is a chance to get an impact player.
80% of the line is arguably set for 2015. I really don't see the Giants investing a #1 draft pick in the line. I think Colin from GBN has a similar view.
I'd love another WR
Lots of holes, but OL, DL, LB and S have to be top priorities either in FA or the draft.
If a WR is the BPA, it is zero problem. The Giants have one offensive weapon right now -- one. They can't bank on Cruz, who wasn't even playing well, dating back to mid last year, before he got injured.
The draft isn't about year 1 it's about the next 3 or 4 years. Not investing a huge chunk of cap in 2 really good WRs would be a massive advantage.
If Peat comes out, I'd love to take him. Not sure of contract/$ implications, but as I've said before, Beatty is or soon will be 31 regardless of whether you like him or not. Peat, especially as an early college departure, could get acclimated over a year or two and take over for the "old" Beatty. Or could play on other side if, as has been suggested, Pugh moves to G.
Other than that, the best DEs and LBs -- our other greatest need, IMHO -- projected near there (e.g., Gregory, Ray, Thompson, Beasley) seem too skinny to me.
Do NOT be surprised if the Giants don't go after a top FA wideout.
Yes, we need OL but have to hope Pugh, Richburg come on stronger and Schwartz is healthy next year. Round 2 OG maybe? Round 1, may go defense.
Fowler or Oakman are most likely IMO. I'd prefer Fowler. If he's gone, then maybe Dupree after a trade down.
No thanks.
The Cowboys OL is making Murray look a HOFer, which he is not. A very good OL will make everyone look much better, including Eli, OBJ, Cruz and the third WR like Parker.
That said, I fully expect Reese to get a FA or 2 for the Oline.
I expect a big FA OL signing. + a high draft pick.
The Cowboys OL is making Murray look a HOFer, which he is not. A very good OL will make everyone look much better, including Eli, OBJ, Cruz and the third WR like Parker.
That said, I fully expect Reese to get a FA or 2 for the Oline.
OBJ- Legit
Cruz- Coming off major knee injury
Parker- He's your #3??? Come on, man. The guy is a 4th at best.
TE is still a ?
GB has been making do with 3 4th rd picks and a 7th rd R at C. Their highest pick - a 1st - is their worst player on the OL
Murray has run like this before, in 2 of his 3 previous years he avg over 5 ypc - w/o Martin. Difference is they are giving him 10 more carries per game to protect Romo's back
This continued notion that you have to have high draft picks on the OL to suceed is total BS, as is that they need to pick an OL just to pick one
Cleveland has 4 OL who have been picked in the top 37 picks and still struggle with pass protection and running the ball
I also do not believe we would draft the above mentioned guy that high coming off a major injury
So drafting a rookie offensive lineman will keep Eli off his ass? I'm hoping for the Iowa OT, but really, expecting us to draft someone like a Zack Martin is really wishful thinking.
RE: Cruz
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
Don't be shocked if NYG drafts a WR in the first few rounds, given Cruz's knee and Randle's lack of development. Even if Cruz returns 100%, we still would have only two solid WRs.
A lot of early assessments pointing to strength and depth at DE, OT, and WR through three rounds.
If that holds true, how would a draft haul of those three look added to the NYG roster in May? It would be an excellent use of limited draft resources, addressing both needs and premium positions. They could add an OG, TE, RB in later rounds, for example.
Quote:
And help get Jerry and Walton out of the starting lineup?
So drafting a rookie offensive lineman will keep Eli off his ass? I'm hoping for the Iowa OT, but really, expecting us to draft someone like a Zack Martin is really wishful thinking.
How so?
Quote:
In comment 12042165 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
And help get Jerry and Walton out of the starting lineup?
So drafting a rookie offensive lineman will keep Eli off his ass? I'm hoping for the Iowa OT, but really, expecting us to draft someone like a Zack Martin is really wishful thinking.
How so?
Despite the criticism of Pugh here he has probably had the best career of the 2013 1st Round OL. OL is not an easy position for a guy to come right in and be stellar
Really? Walton, Jerry, Schwartz, Brown, Baas?
For the life of me the fantasy football mentality just doesn't stop.
How many championships has ATL won? Det. And why is Det even Winn I go now? Because their D is finally stepping up
Some really good things would have to happen in FA to get a Franklin, Bulaga, Iupati to actually be allowed to leave by their current team.
If we could get that to happen, fine; otherwise OL.
The draft isn't about year 1 it's about the next 3 or 4 years. Not investing a huge chunk of cap in 2 really good WRs would be a massive advantage.
This is a smart intelligent rational, thoughtful and insightful post..
It has no place on BBI...
I actually don't know much about Parker. But I'm all for WR, mainly if we have a shot at Cooper. Really don't care if it's me and 4 of my friends blocking if we go into 2015 with Beckham/Cooper/Cruz.
We will have cap to help with the OL. We won't have cap for another top target for Eli, however, which is why I'm not opposed to WR early.
This is only an issue for Giants fans. Beckum Barden and Jernigan didnt see the field because of the glut at WR.. they didnt see the field because they SUCKED..
Why is it that teams like the Packers. Saints Denver etc etc can go three to four deep at receiver and spend quality picks in doing so.. but when it comes to the Giants its like....
OH NO.. dont get more than two quality receivers.. We have OBJ and a Cruz coming off a MAJOR injury and a sub par Randle and Parker.. thats enough.. we dont need any more receivers..
I think they can pick up some solid FA pieces this year in some key areas. One is a FA veteran WR. I want Randall Cobb, if too much grab someone like Torrey Smith. But I would make a run for Cobb, he is excellent insurance if Cruz doesn't return to form, and would be a perfect pairing with Beckham.
I'm not sure the Giants go after a top FA OL again, I just don't see them wanting to invest that much in the OL. While I would love someone like Franklin, I think they look for some other second tier guys to compete with a 2nd-3rd rd OL pick. Schwartz, Beatty, Pugh, and Richburg are good building blocks. get better depth behind them, and a mean OG/RT in this draft and FA.
On defense I would take most people's suggestions of replacing Rolle with McCourty. Unless you can resign Rolle cheap, then get both. They have Berhe, and Taylor as depth. Bring back Thurmond, extend Prince to a long term deal and this secondary remains a strong point.
The market for JPP will be interesting, I think he will do better with a competent DC, but if he prices himself in the same category as Suh, who do you target? I think I try and keep the guy who has been a Giant here. They need to get another LB to play along with Kennard, and bring in a young DT to add to the mix. DE needs depth as well.
I actually don't know much about Parker. But I'm all for WR, mainly if we have a shot at Cooper. Really don't care if it's me and 4 of my friends blocking if we go into 2015 with Beckham/Cooper/Cruz.
We will have cap to help with the OL. We won't have cap for another top target for Eli, however, which is why I'm not opposed to WR early.
Great idea. 4 WRs and no QB would be the worst case result. And you will have mediocrity at best. If they don't have a good OL, they will be on the 7-9 to 9-7 treadmill. No consistency. They'll have some amazing games and numbers against other mediocre teams and lose the tough ones.
You mean there are other Waltons and Jerrys waiting to be signed by the Giants?
Thank you BBC. Kareem McKenzie and O'Hara worked out. Baas, Brown, Walton, Jerry, all not so hot. Jury is still out on Schwartz since he didn't really play this year.
Quote:
I'm not saying I'm right, but there's certainly more than just using a 1st round pick on a G to fix your line.
I actually don't know much about Parker. But I'm all for WR, mainly if we have a shot at Cooper. Really don't care if it's me and 4 of my friends blocking if we go into 2015 with Beckham/Cooper/Cruz.
We will have cap to help with the OL. We won't have cap for another top target for Eli, however, which is why I'm not opposed to WR early.
Great idea. 4 WRs and no QB would be the worst case result. And you will have mediocrity at best. If they don't have a good OL, they will be on the 7-9 to 9-7 treadmill. No consistency. They'll have some amazing games and numbers against other mediocre teams and lose the tough ones.
Re read this post and my other above, both talk about how there's more ways than 1 to fix the O-Line, and that it isn't so cut and dry like you and many other posters make it seem.
Spending the 8th overall pick on the best OL available doesn't equal fixed O-Line. I cannot stress that enough and if you pay attention around the league, you'd realize that.
What I said was that using your $$$ in FA for lineman makes more sense than spending on another weapon for Eli. We don't have this horrific line that BBI likes to talk about so frequently. It certainly isn't good, but Eli isn't getting hit 30 times a game like this board makes it out to be.
Getting a FA Guard is 1 way to address, which in turn allow us to be more BPA focused in the draft. If that happens and Cooper is there, you just can't pass that up.
If you don't trust their UFA OL choices, there's no reason to trust their draft OL choices either, thus barking for OL no matter what in the first round is faulty logic.
Not so ridiculous. We have OBJ, VC with a blown knee then what?
If we don't spend a top 10 pick on an OL, it's not the end of the world.
Like Terps said: Draft players, not positions. You don't reach for a lesser player.
And like JonC has said OVER AND OVER- It's very likely at least one OL in free agency.
Quote:
We need lineman on both sides of the ball. Games are on and lost upfront. Taking another receiver in the first round is ridiculous.
Not so ridiculous. We have OBJ, VC with a blown knee then what?
Yes, the need is there. But will there be a receiver worth taking at 7-10. The only one I see is Cooper. I don't think Parker is a value pick that high.
I also recall how David Yankey from Stanford was a sure first rounder - he went in the fifth round, behind teammate Cameron Fleming who went in the fourth.
My point is that it's far too early to fall in love with anyone.
When they have drafted in higher rounds yes, players have been at least average OLs (Snee, Beatty, Pugh, Richburg). Mid to lower rounds no (Petrus, Brewer, Mosely, McCants). Diehl would be the exception as a 5th rounder.
Quote:
The point is utilizing resources properly. Track record of choices is a different debate.
When they have drafted in higher rounds yes, players have been at least average OLs (Snee, Beatty, Pugh, Richburg). Mid to lower rounds no (Petrus, Brewer, Mosely, McCants). Diehl would be the exception as a 5th rounder.
They must come away from a top 10 pick with a much better than average player, regardless of position.
-A top 10 draft pick (any position) will net between $2.5 and $5 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 WR will net between $9 and $16.2 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 G will net between $6 and $8.5 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 C will net between $4 and $8.8 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 RT will net between $4.2 and $7 Million in 2015.
-A top 10 LT will net between $8.5 and $12.2 Million in 2015.
The very best #1 G, C, and RT make less than the 10th best WR. Cruz is the 11th BTW at $8.6 Million.
RB's and I would argue WR's are becoming easier and easier to replace provided you have a stable and competent coaching staff.
Likewise on defense, the emphasis is becoming more on finding guys who can reliably tackle (which ours cannot do) and/or pass rushers.
As for Jon's question, A lot of people have said that these last 2 drafts have restored their faith in Reese and his ability to scout and evaluate talent. Probably more people have faith in Reese there then they do in Free Agency talent, so let's go where his supposed strength is, the draft.
What you can take to the bank though is that the Giants will stick with their board (a much preferable phrase than the oft misinterpreted 'best player available') and in that vein we'd nominate Terps as the MVP (Most Valuable Poster) as in the end quality organizations 'draft players not positions.' Positions do factor in obviously but position almost never trumps talent.
A couple of general points about talent. 1) we are hearing from our sources around the league that there are major issues about both Peat and Fowler that have gotten some mentions here. No question Peat has potential elite physical skill but he was wildly inconsistent this fall, plus he's never had that nasty streak. Meanwhile, Fowler really flashed at times, but 'flashed' is the operative word as I heard one scout say 'he lead the country in taking plays off!). At the same time, I've been told by more than one source that if Parker had played more than the 4 games this fall he would clearly be the #1 receiver in this draft. He isn't quite as explosive coming out of his cuts as Cooper, but he's a much bigger, stronger, more physical receiver with better hands and long speed. Te same sources figure that by the time we get thru the combine and rest of the process that Parker could very well overtake Cooper and come in as the top receiver. Remember at this time last year Beckham was barely a blip on the opening round radar.
The other cautionary note we would make at this time is that there is often something of a disconnect between fans and NFL people as to what they want the draft to accomplish. The average fan in the street, who clearly cares passionately about his team, desperately wants it to get better and the logical, quickest way to get better is to identify the weakest unit and plug in a top draft pick. Most good organizations though tend to approach the draft asking not necessarily what needs fixing but what gets you closer to a championship. Needless to say sometimes those things can be the same, but often they aren't.
And in that regard one can make the case the Giants don't 'need' another possible WR. Indeed, they likely could go into the season with Beckham and hopefully a healthy Victor, along with Randle and Parker as the 3-4 guys and maybe add another vet in free agency and/or the middle rounds of the 2015 draft, and the WR group would be good enough to win with; however, add another possible elite guy out there and the unit could be really scary good and force other teams to really scramble to match-up if they could.
Fair assessment, however I'd note the following:
Eli, by far the most crucial part of this team, is likely to get injured with a continuation of the interior line play that we've seen. This has been ongoing for fully 2 seasons now - remember the Carolina game last season? The Eagles this year? Even the lowly Jaguars were getting major hits on him. He's not Romo or Rodgers who can consistently avoid that big hit.
So while I am all about building toward a championship (a multi-year endeavor, to be sure), I think finding even serviceable protection is urgent. FA, draft whatever. But they can't continue starting the Waltons and Jerrys of the league.
At the same time, my own best guess is that if the Giants had their druthers their #1 priority this off-season would be to juice the pass rush and would go there in a heartbeat with their #1 pick if there was a worthy guy. And while guys like Oakman, Fowler and even Dupree are somewhat intriguing options they come with major caveats.
Also just a final note re Parker. My earlier comments were not meant to be dogmatic in that I don't think for a moment the Giants will or should automatically take a WR like Parker assuming he's even there when they pick. However, its the case to be made to take a big-play threat like him if a) his foot checks out; b) he runs well in pre-draft testing and c) he is in fact in their top-rated box when they do make their pick.
So for anyone to say this guy or that guy shouldn't be considered for the Giants pick in December 2014 is just downright silly. Guys who we think are first rounders now will not be drafted in the first round (may not get drafted in the second round). And visa versa.
Colin, what do you think of the Miami tackle?
Flowers is another of Kehoe's guys, you know his track record.
Which scares me because Reese and his staff seem to not be able to hit on FA OL either. not that I trust him or Ross either. They'd pass up Anthony Munoz for a skill position player IMO
Quote:
You need to realize there's a good chance they address the OL via UFA, freeing themselves up for the draft.
Which scares me because Reese and his staff seem to not be able to hit on FA OL either. not that I trust him or Ross either. They'd pass up Anthony Munoz for a skill position player IMO
Matt, Reese cannot predict injuries. Baas was a good center that could not shrug the neck injury. Schwartz got the unfortunate toe injury. But the game he played at RT before getting hurt again he looked pretty good for not playing there regularly. I think he will be really good at RG once his toe/ankle heals.
Walton was a roll of the dice, he was s decent C before his rash of injuries. Jerry and Brown were starters the previous year, but still pretty cheap and had they been backups they would be fine.
I think Colin hit the nail on the head about quality interior lineman. Get a good guard, hope for very good. The existing line is nowhere near the disaster last years was and that is with Jerry and Walton playing and Pugh hurt. It is below avg, but can be avg with a decent and healthy LG added to the mix.
Devante Parker had a pretty damn fine game against Florida State.
That's the warning flag.
And Pugh moving inside where he belongs means we still need a RT.
That's the warning flag.
And Pugh moving inside where he belongs means we still need a RT.
Somewhat true, mostly because of Winston's 3+ INTs per game. Funny how most of the damage was done in the 1st half after his INTs. Most teams didn't do crap in the 2nd half.
No, I'll give the devil his due. Parker looked strong in that game. I'm not choosing any WRs yet.
I don't see Pugh needing to move inside as a requirement to help the line and at his weight, I'm not sure he'll be better there. He is still the best tackle from 2013 class and his feet make him a natural tackle. Of course that would help him as a pulling guard too.
But he can play inside so if a better RT is available fine. If a better LG is available (and cheaper) he stays at RT.
I'd imagine they grab another playmaker #1 and pick the best best DL and OL available in rounds 2 and 3.
Sounds good to me.
Both can play a physical RT and we can kick Pugh inside. Our 2 biggest issues are the absence of a Physical RT and our pathetic C play.
FSU barely survived most of their games due to the competition they faced. They legit lost to ND and got bailed out by the refs.
I've really liked what I've seen of Kaelin Clay, #8 on Utah. Sr WR/KR/PR. Averaging 17 yards on PR. He'd have better receiving stats if his QB didn't suck.
Bad teams stay bad when they force position and need and forego special players.
The NFL is all about a play making QB and more disruptive players than your opponent.
It's pretty unreal we're this bad with such a good QB. We need several more good players at literally every position.
Colin: Where is the highest you can see Sambrailo possibly going in this draft? Does he have 2nd half of the 1st round potential (17-32) in your opinion?